[Discussion|Theory-Crafting] Heroes' boons and banes

[Katrisa]

But my being in relation to someone elses rant.  Certain perks are great for attacking yourself (attack buffs).  But defensive and speed buffs often screw up others offensives.  So I'm watching my rolls much more carefully especially for anyone I'm raising to 5 star

[eclipse]

21 minutes ago, Katrisa said:

But my being in relation to someone elses rant.  Certain perks are great for attacking yourself (attack buffs).  But defensive and speed buffs often screw up others offensives.  So I'm watching my rolls much more carefully especially for anyone I'm raising to 5 star

Yo don't double post, even it's on the page break!

Do you have any other examples of this, outside of Cordelia vs. Takumi?  I prefer screwing with my opponent's Speed, since it either gives me a second attack, or forces them to attack once.

----

Other units of note (some of which are in the pull topic):

- Virion: Apparently mine was +Spd/-Res, which is why Takumi could never double him (hooray 32 Speed).  Linde still can, but non +Spd variants shouldn't be able to once he hits 5*.

- Robin: +Res/-Attk. . .I WILL MAKE THIS WORK!  Or I might get lucky and pull one with a better combo (as long as the bane isn't Atk/Spd, I'll be happy)

- Azama: +Spd/-Atk.  Probably the best boon/bane combo for him IMO. His draw is Pain, which doesn't scale off of Attack.  Speed means he's less likely to be doubled (actual stats coming one day).

[Dual Dragons]

4* currently

Narcian - neutral. I've been spoiled by Camilla. He's only slight better than her in Defense as a Level 40 4* and he'll get two more if he's Level 40 5*. He wants to be damaged for Vengeance or high enough for Lancebreaker 3 so a +HP might be better. For Banes, it's probably going to be -Res since he sucks there anyways. If you're doing Arena currently, you don't want him carrying an Emerald Axe, which makes his offense bleh thanks to only having a Steel Axe as the highest non-Emerald. Still, he'll slaughter Peri's and do some hurting on Abel's. According to the IV calculator, seems he won't be able to kill Level 40 5* Linde's without the Emerald Axe.

[Sire]

In regards of HP to DEF & RES, I personally believe that DEF & RES are far more valuable on lower SPD units as they tend to get doubled. +3 DEF essentially means "+6 HP" if the attacker is physical.

As for speedy units, I would say HP may be a little more valuable. They are frail to begin with and tend to have weak DEF and RES, but since they have high SPD, they tend not to be doubled. Thus, having higher HP allows them to deal with physical or magic threats a little better.

Now granted, everyone likes running their glass cannons (kill them before they kill you), but HP, DEF, RES, or even SPD boons can mess up the enemy calculations. For example, My +SPD, -ATT Ryoma can handle most Takumis in one round, but if the Takumi is +SPD, I will have to spend another round attacking him with somebody, costing a precious action.

To fully maximize efficiency, it may be wise to build an "Offense Team" and "Defense Team," using whatever Boon & Bane best suits that team composition. Of course, we go into "I don't have that hero or I don't have that particular nature" territory thinking like this, but IS and Nintendo could always use your money...

[BANRYU]

Checked the IVs on my newly 5*'d adult Tiki recently and it looks like she's HP+/Res-... which I think is probably pretty good, only way that could have been better was Def+ for boosting Bonfire.

My Robin appears to be Def+/Spd- which... meh... I'd like him to be faster to take advantage of Defiant Spd but it makes him tank Takumi better. Being so much slower than other Robins sucks though.

[Katrisa]

On 2/22/2017 at 7:52 PM, eclipse said:

Yo don't double post, even it's on the page break!

Do you have any other examples of this, outside of Cordelia vs. Takumi?  I prefer screwing with my opponent's Speed, since it either gives me a second attack, or forces them to attack once.

MB on the double post I was spastic and it was late.  I've seen high defense Robins for instance survive double attacks which sometimes makes my assault more difficult.  High Defense Lucina... hate her.  Usually when I'm fighting Lucina my blue is somewhere else dealing with a more urgent problem (usually baiting a Takumi).  So I typically have to force Lyn on Lucina.  If she's high defense it can make things painful on Lyn taking more damage than is ideal.

I have all physically attackers right now so I really notice when units have higher defense than normal.

[eclipse]

7 hours ago, Katrisa said:

MB on the double post I was spastic and it was late.  I've seen high defense Robins for instance survive double attacks which sometimes makes my assault more difficult.  High Defense Lucina... hate her.  Usually when I'm fighting Lucina my blue is somewhere else dealing with a more urgent problem (usually baiting a Takumi).  So I typically have to force Lyn on Lucina.  If she's high defense it can make things painful on Lyn taking more damage than is ideal.

I have all physically attackers right now so I really notice when units have higher defense than normal.

General rule is to have mixed attackers - so throw a magic user or two in the mix!  That way, physical walls can be bypassed (somewhat).

[Katrisa]

Its interesting because I would have thought my comp would have suffered more problems being I'm 100% physical attack right and 100% melee.  But I'm doing well and placing in the 1000-5000 tier.  Tanks usually aren't the problem since I can usually color counter them.  My issue right now is teams with 2+ ranged or x1 ranged and a singer along with bad terrain.   Since all melee + terrain difficulties = bigproblems.

With this said I just drew a Nino with +HP and - Res (little disappointed with the stat draw but could have been -attack or speed so could be worse).  So I think I'll level her into my current comp.

[Marcodian_Elite]

So just got my 1st 5* to 40 (I started late, my phone broke the day the game was released :-/) so

 

Ephraim

HP : 45

Atk: 48

Spd: 25

Def: 35

Res: 20

I had a look and I dont think I have any bones/banes - all average? or am I wrong?

I only have 1 other 5* - Julia, currently 38 but when I get her to 40 Il post up

[Kiran]

32 minutes ago, Marcodian_Elite said:

So just got my 1st 5* to 40 (I started late, my phone broke the day the game was released :-/) so

 

Ephraim

HP : 45

Atk: 48

Spd: 25

Def: 35

Res: 20

I had a look and I dont think I have any bones/banes - all average? or am I wrong?

I only have 1 other 5* - Julia, currently 38 but when I get her to 40 Il post up

You have -ATK/+DEF Ephraim

[Thor Odinson]

The core of my team consists of:

Ryoma (+Spd, -Atk) - Given how ridiculously high Ryoma's standard attack power is, -Atk isn't really a problem here as I'd actually rather his defenses be intact because he's my best tank that works EP on all ranges. This build, notably, works very well against Takumi, and it allows him to take 2 Takumis at once without risk of death(except 2 +Atk Takumis, but this is mitigated by attaching Robin to him), while ORKOing most varieties of them and even more (basically anything but +spd) with his team's boosts (namely Olivia's Hone Atk, which helps make up for his lower atk), and he can bait green mages reliably. I am very happy with this variant of Ryoma. 

Takumi (+Spd, -Res) - Never EPing Linde ever, but speedy Takumi especially with Ryoma's Hone Speed support is baller. With his own threaten speed, if he can get some faster enemies (melee, esp) to enter 2 spaces of him but not reach him, he'll actually score doubles on them. Notably today I was able to double and ORKO a Lyn with Takumi due to Threaten Speed/Hone Speed stacking on him, which would not happen if it were not speed Takumi.

Robin (+Atk, -Spd) - the -spd gives him some trouble since he gets doubled by Takumi this way unless I tape Ryoma to him every turn, but he has very good damage. My usual usage of him is >find a red > nuke once > Olivia dance > nuke again, so he's still quite useful. Spur Def also means he can help Ryoma tank better, so it's a mutually beneficial relationship they got there. I would prefer him to not have -spd, but I'll take what I got.

And Olivia. Who doesn't really fight and occasionally might tank something to the face if need be. 

I have others, but this is my tried and true arena team. I've been using Catria instead of Robin lately though since bonus characters are a thing and Ryoma/Takumi is my team core so they aren't going anywhere, but it ends up being that Ryoma/Takumi also does most of the work between Takumi meta means Catria can't go anywhere and her attack is significantly weaker being a 4* (even as a +atk). I haven't really tested any arena configurations that doesn't use my Ryoma/Takumi core, though with the new focus and my new 5* pulls I might try out some different setups.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Thor Odinson

[Marcodian_Elite]

Well nuts lol - how bad of a disadvantage is -atk then?

Just got my only other 5* to 40 :

Julia

HP : 38

Atk: 49

Spd: 30

Def: 13

Res: 35

[LordFrigid]

Ephraim doesn't strike me as someone who particularly likes -Atk, since he's got Spd issues and really wants to swing hard on the one hit that he does get. You'd have to look at Def/HP benchmarks to see what kinds of things he'd be one-shotting to be sure though. For example, +Atk Ephraim with a Hone Atk buff will be one-shotting a Lucina that's not +Def or +HP, whereas -Atk Ephraim would have to have to have a teammate chip her on the offensive end, or just eat the doubling on the defensive end.

Julia's +Spd/-Def (for reference, you can check this stuff on the wiki's calculator). +Spd might help her not get doubled, but tbh you don't normally want Julia to be on the defensive end of a fight. +Atk serves her better because her job is to drop a massive hit on whoever she's attacking. -Def is fine as, again, she really shouldn't be put in a spot where she can be attacked...though I suppose it's noteworthy that she can still eat a hit from Takumi (she'll need a Spd buff if the Takumi is +Spd, and make sure he doesn't start his turn within two spaces of her or Threaten Spd will ruin her day) and will 2HKO him back. Wouldn't be my first choice for Takumi handling, but it's definitely an option.

[Marcodian_Elite]

Thanks for the info - seems my Ephraim wasnt the best pull, he'll have to do until I can get something better, Julia's doesn't seem much better but doesn't seem to be as detrimental as Ephraims, gotta make due with what we have I guess, my 4* Tharja is nearly at 40 too, only leaving 1 rather weak spot on my team with my colourless, I'm sure I'l get it sorted eventually lol

[eclipse]

16 hours ago, Marcodian_Elite said:

Thanks for the info - seems my Ephraim wasnt the best pull, he'll have to do until I can get something better, Julia's doesn't seem much better but doesn't seem to be as detrimental as Ephraims, gotta make due with what we have I guess, my 4* Tharja is nearly at 40 too, only leaving 1 rather weak spot on my team with my colourless, I'm sure I'l get it sorted eventually lol

Feel free to post in the question thread.  We'll be glad to help!  Though if you're running Julia/Tharja, Ephraim's defensive debuffs seem like they're wasted.

[Katrisa]

I keep getting grumpy with -Def and -Atk Banes.  Here's my lineup of my top characters:

Boons & Banes Eirika + Atk - HP Lyn + HP - Res Cordelia + Atk - Def Hector + HP - Atk Nino + HP - Res Corrin + Res - Def Tiki + Spd - Atk Setsuna + None - None Roy  + Res - Def Lissa + None - None

I'm fairly happy with my core teams stats.  I'm very happy with Cordelia's roll though -HP or -Res would have been better.  Eirika's roll is also very good though I think -Res would have been best.  I haven't been disappointed with Lyn's roll yet, she has never needed the extra attack and HP+ seems to let her eek out with just enough HP sometimes, I do suspect +Def -Res would be best on Lyn though allowing her to trudge through some nasty encounters with her passive.  Hectors boons/banes seem neutral, any time I run just short of some stat in an encounter its always a different stat.

For my alternate members I'm a bit POed so far.  Ninos roll could be worse and it could be better, its a very middling roll.  Corrin's roll kind of sucks, I think -Def is one of the last things I want on her.  Tikis roll is also very annoying,  + speed only lets her eek out of getting double attacked in a few situations (usually against greens that she is crushing) while -Atk hurts her kill potential. And Roys - Def makes me cry... this guy is made to be in the thick of melee combat things and has the worst stat for the job

All in all I can't argue too much, +attack Cordelia is extremely powerful and currently carrying my team through some tough fights.  But I'm having trouble growing my team as a number of key players Corrin and Roy, have the worst Banes I could have gotten, IMO. 

[Soulkey]

what heroes do you play in arena?

[Katrisa]

My current team is my signature Eirkia, Lyn, Cordelia and Hector.  Lyn is the most likely candidate for bonus swapping.  They carry a very healthy stat score putting me in a healthy spot the last two weeks in the arena.  My composition has a number of problems though having zero magic damage and zero ranged.  So clearing 7 in a row with no deaths is very difficult but doable.  I survive through very careful baiting and making heavy use out of Cordelias massive attack, triangle adept bonus (to tank reds) and Galeforce.  I probably use Galeforce every other arena match right now. 

[TheTuckingFypo]

So, I'm thinking of merging my duplicates. My question is, which unit(s) do I enhance?

Spoiler

 

4* Frederick, +HP/-SPD or 3* Frederick (level 20+2), +RES/-DEF

4* Fae (lvl 22+2), +DEF/-SPD or 4* Fae, Balanced

5* Marth, +ATT/-DEF, 5* Marth, +HP/-DEF, or 4* Marth, +HP/-ATT <--- (though I may keep both 5* Marths)

4* Ogma, Balanced or 4* Ogma, +ATT/-HP

4* Maria, +DEF/-SPD or 4* Maria, +HP/-DEF

 

 

[Katrisa]

16 hours ago, TheTuckingFypo said:

So, I'm thinking of merging my duplicates. My question is, which unit(s) do I enhance?

Good question Tucking... You've got some really weird rolls there.

Frederick's natural speed is so bad you might as well accept getting doubled all the time.  I would probably go with the +HP/-SPD

The Fae options you have are tricky.  +Def is nice because she's naturally fairly tanky and this amps her ability to tank more.  But the @5 star the difference in 25 and 28 speed sucks.  Its just a bad number to be at.  At 25 most non tanks will double you.  At 28 everyone fast will double you, a few mages, mounted horseback and fliers will not, but you won't double almost anyone but -speed tanks.  With this said I think balanced would probably win out in more situations than the +Def for matchups, but it would be very close.

For Ogma you definitely want to go +Att/-HP with his brave weapon.  That's actually probably a perfect roll (or +Att/-Res depending on your viewpoint)

Marth's options for you all make me flustered.  You really want your bane on him to be -HP or -Res ideally.  He's going to be eating hits to the face so -Def is ugg.  Ultimately I would probably go with the +Attack/-Def and hope for the best.

Maria I would go with +HP/-Def  You'll mostly be dealing with ranged attacks and with her natural high speed very few people will double you with neutral speed.  This will make her more vulnerable to archers but you shouldn't let them get near in general.

 

[TheTuckingFypo]

34 minutes ago, Katrisa said:

Good question Tucking... You've got some really weird rolls there.

Frederick's natural speed is so bad you might as well accept getting doubled all the time.  I would probably go with the +HP/-SPD

The Fae options you have are tricky.  +Def is nice because she's naturally fairly tanky and this amps her ability to tank more.  But the @5 star the difference in 25 and 28 speed sucks.  Its just a bad number to be at.  At 25 most non tanks will double you.  At 28 everyone fast will double you, a few mages, mounted horseback and fliers will not, but you won't double almost anyone but -speed tanks.  With this said I think balanced would probably win out in more situations than the +Def for matchups, but it would be very close.

For Ogma you definitely want to go +Att/-HP with his brave weapon.  That's actually probably a perfect roll (or +Att/-Res depending on your viewpoint)

Marth's options for you all make me flustered.  You really want your bane on him to be -HP or -Res ideally.  He's going to be eating hits to the face so -Def is ugg.  Ultimately I would probably go with the +Attack/-Def and hope for the best.

Maria I would go with +HP/-Def  You'll mostly be dealing with ranged attacks and with her natural high speed very few people will double you with neutral speed.  This will make her more vulnerable to archers but you shouldn't let them get near in general.

 

Interesting. I will merge my Freddies and Ogmas, but I'll hold off on the rest until my next summoning on Tuesday to see if anything better shows up. Thanks for the help! 

Edited March 5, 2017 by TheTuckingFypo