thehell Hinata & Oboro

[Junkhead]

Why are they so tanky. Like, stupid tanky. I've never seen such a tanky non-Knight/armoured unit...not to mention how slow they are in regards to that, as well. It's such a weird mix that I couldn't help but add them both to my team.

[Arcanite]

Hee hee that's why I like oboro so much. She's like an effie knock-off e̶x̶c̶e̶p̶t̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶d̶-̶l̶o̶o̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶. Carried me through some tough stuff through the beginning of the game, solid Lance user.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Arcanite
Punctuation error

[Extrasolar]

34 minutes ago, Soul~! said:

Why are they so tanky. Like, stupid tanky. I've never seen such a tanky non-Knight/armoured unit...not to mention how slow they are in regards to that, as well. It's such a weird mix that I couldn't help but add them both to my team.

Did you play Fates? They're much of the same in that game. Tanky as hell, and that's why I far prefer them to Hana, who dies if an enemy so much as breathes on her in both games.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Junkhead]

Hana's awful. Ana knows what a real Myrmidon is...with axes.

[Jedi]

Hana can at least double things, Hinata has issues ever getting speed or anything resembling good stats.   

[Extrasolar]

13 minutes ago, Jedi said:

Hana can at least double things, Hinata has issues ever getting speed or anything resembling good stats.   

Doubles things and deals a whole 5 damage, while dying immediately to a 40% chance to hit that she spectacularly fails to avoid. Hinata can actually take a hit, likely dodge it with his much better chance to avoid, and also...his crits, you know, actually kill things.

Just speaking purely in Heroes, Hana might as well have negative defense, as she'll pretty much 100% die to anyone's attack. She might get a kill, but she's screwed on the very next turn. Not exactly conductive to high scores in the arena.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Vaximillian]

45 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Just speaking purely in Heroes, Hana might as well have negative defense, as she'll pretty much 100% die to anyone's attack.

She has.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Extrasolar said:

Just speaking purely in Heroes, Hana might as well have negative defense, as she'll pretty much 100% die to anyone's attack. She might get a kill, but she's screwed on the very next turn. Not exactly conductive to high scores in the arena.

Neutral 5-star Hana has an absurd 52 Atk and 41 Spd. She one-round-kills every A+ or higher red unit she can double attack except [+Atk] Chrom (who kills her on the counterattack), Eldigan (who fails to kill her on the counterattack by 1 HP with [+Atk]), and both versions of Tiki.

[+Spd] Hana outspeeds every unboosted A+ or higher red unit except [+Spd] Lyn for a one-round kill (again, excluding [+Atk] Chrom, who kills her on the counterattack, and Eldigan and Tiki, who can tank her), though she's usually left with one-digit HP afterwards. That's hardly "might get a kill" or "100% die to anyone's attack".

[+Atk] Hana can one-round-kill any Hector that isn't [+Def, =HP]. Neutral Hana cannot be one-shot by Hector (survives with at least 11 HP) if Hector initiates combat, and can finish him off on the next turn.

[-Res] Hana (that's a minus sign) can tank a hit from any unboosted red or green mage except [+Atk] Lilina and retaliate for a one-round kill on the following turn. [-Res] Hana can also tank Eirika-boosted Nino, but not Eirika-boosted Tharja.

But yes, she is completely screwed afterwards. Hope you have someone with a repositioning skill nearby or enough nukes to wipe the general vicinity clean before enemy phase.

I think she's deserving of her A-tier status. There just happen to be many better characters to promote to 5-star.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[mcsilas]

Even a 3 star Oboro puts in work for me. Seal Def is always useful and Threaten Res+Rally Defense works wonders for her teammate Nino!

Don't have enough SP for Heavy Spear yet but damn she's already so useful in my mage-focused team (for now the tomes can take care of the Armor Knights)

 

Hinata is so bulky in whenever I face him, it's pretty stupid even if I had Weapon advanatage- made me wish I had mages back when I didn't have mages yet. I've summoned him but haven't used him to full potential yet, I just find Oboro to be heaps better (plus I lacked Blue units and already have so many Reds there was no reason to use Hinata).

 

[Rapha666br]

Rarity up a 4 star Oboro worth It? I have one, but replaced with 4 star Nowi.

[Korath88]

16 minutes ago, Rapha666br said:

Rarity up a 4 star Oboro worth It? I have one, but replaced with 4 star Nowi.

Oboro's a good unit (I've used her before) but I think Nowi and Sharena are better candidates for promotion. (unless you really like Oboro, then go ahead, it's your game )

[Anacybele]

7 hours ago, Soul~! said:

Hana's awful. Ana knows what a real Myrmidon is...with axes.

What? I haven't touched Anna in forever and I don't plan to use her again. :/ And anyone should know Anna is fairly speedy for an axe wielder... Not just me. She just can't take physical hits worth crap.

I always found it strange that Oboro and Hinata were tanky in either game. They don't wear any real protective armor or anything.

[Extrasolar]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

What? I haven't touched Anna in forever and I don't plan to use her again. :/ And anyone should know Anna is fairly speedy for an axe wielder... Not just me. She just can't take physical hits worth crap.

I always found it strange that Oboro and Hinata were tanky in either game. They don't wear any real protective armor or anything.

They know that physical defense in Fates is so much more reliable than evasion, and got with the program. Seems to have worked for them, since they're so much more useful than Hana in that game.

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Neutral 5-star Hana has an absurd 52 Atk and 41 Spd. She one-round-kills every A+ or higher red unit she can double attack except [+Atk] Chrom (who kills her on the counterattack), Eldigan (who fails to kill her on the counterattack by 1 HP with [+Atk]), and both versions of Tiki.

[+Spd] Hana outspeeds every unboosted A+ or higher red unit except [+Spd] Lyn for a one-round kill (again, excluding [+Atk] Chrom, who kills her on the counterattack, and Eldigan and Tiki, who can tank her), though she's usually left with one-digit HP afterwards. That's hardly "might get a kill" or "100% die to anyone's attack".

[+Atk] Hana can one-round-kill any Hector that isn't [+Def, =HP]. Neutral Hana cannot be one-shot by Hector (survives with at least 11 HP) if Hector initiates combat, and can finish him off on the next turn.

[-Res] Hana (that's a minus sign) can tank a hit from any unboosted red or green mage except [+Atk] Lilina and retaliate for a one-round kill on the following turn. [-Res] Hana can also tank Eirika-boosted Nino, but not Eirika-boosted Tharja.

But yes, she is completely screwed afterwards. Hope you have someone with a repositioning skill nearby or enough nukes to wipe the general vicinity clean before enemy phase.

I think she's deserving of her A-tier status. There just happen to be many better characters to promote to 5-star.

I was speaking figuratively; I know that she has killing power, but in the sense that "sure, she killed a guy, but my arena score is screwed as soon as she gets attacked."  Some of it comes down to personal preference; due to how common one-hit killing is in general on higher levels of play anyway, I prefer a lot of my units to have at least a decent survivability, as opposed to having defenses comparable to paper. Not doubling and doing slightly less damage is a fine trade-off in my book. My 5* Seliph has monstrous attack that one-shots squishy units, but the added perk of not dying if an enemy touches him, even if he tends to get doubled.

I just don't see Hana as practical. Especially considering if you want the best score in the arena and the most feathers, having a unit that is essentially a suicide bomber isn't the greatest thing in the world.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

They know that physical defense in Fates is so much more reliable than evasion, and got with the program. Seems to have worked for them, since they're so much more useful than Hana in that game.

I'm still confused about why I was brought up...?

Also, I thought Hana was good. She doesn't have much strength, but she wrecked all armors for me once I handed her the armorslayer. Took out Effie in one shot without even needing to double, and it's a good thing because I heard other people had trouble against her. It's no wonder Hana has an armorslayer in Heroes as well. But yeah, she's no Ryoma or anything in Fates, that's for sure.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Anacybele

[Extrasolar]

5 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I'm still confused about why I was brought up...?

Huh? Because you were saying you were unsure about why Hinata and Oboro were so tanky, and I responded to it.

For me Hana tends to get screwed over by 40% chances to hit that she should be dodging reliably...and the fact that she gets one-shot by most everything from midgame on doesn't help. Give me a facetank that will take no damage from something and decimate its HP, rather than someone who's going to fail to kill an enemy, and then die to a hit she should have dodged.

It's a little comical how little damage Hana crits do to high-defense enemies. Hinata is a tank, but even his crits can kill an enemy.

 

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Huh? Because you were saying you were unsure about why Hinata and Oboro were so tanky, and I responded to it.

Uh, the post I quoted mentioned me and said I know what a real myrmidon is with axes...? I don't know what that's supposed to mean. And you quoted my response to said post, so I thought you were responding to that response.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Anacybele

[Extrasolar]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Uh, the post I quoted mentioned me and said I know what a real myrmidon is with axes...? I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

You asked why you were brought up, or why I responded to you, right?

I was responding to this:
 

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I always found it strange that Oboro and Hinata were tanky in either game. They don't wear any real protective armor or anything.

You did post that, right? Did you not and shenanigans are happening or something?

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

You asked why you were brought up, or why I responded to you, right?

I was responding to this:
 

You did post that, right? Did you not and shenanigans are happening or something?

I was asking why I was mentioned in the post that I quoted. You quoted that part of my post as well as the part that you pointed out above (so yes, I did post that), so I thought you were replying to it. Why is this so difficult to understand? Sorry, but I don't like repeating myself like this...

Edited March 5, 2017 by Anacybele

[Extrasolar]

Just now, Anacybele said:

I was asking why I was mentioned in the post that I quoted. You quoted that part of my post, so I thought you were replying to it. Why is this so difficult to understand? Sorry, but I don't like repeating myself like this...

What? Okay, sorry, dear lord.. I assumed you would realize that I was responding to the second part of your post. My bad, jesus christ. No need to get so rude.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

What? Okay, sorry, dear lord.. I assumed you would realize that I was responding to the second part of your post. My bad, jesus christ. No need to get so rude.

I didn't realize it, no. Sorry about that. And like I said, I'm sorry, but it irritates me when I have to repeat myself the way I did. You were confused, I explained, but you asked about it again and I had to explain again. I'm not saying you did it on purpose or anything, it's just a pet peeve of mine. So again, sorry.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Anacybele

[Junkhead]

7 hours ago, mcsilas said:

 I just find Oboro to be heaps better (plus I lacked Blue units and already have so many Reds there was no reason to use Hinata).

They're literally the same thing with different weapon types. I just had them arrive at the exact same time, so I took both.

5 hours ago, Anacybele said:

What? I haven't touched Anna in forever and I don't plan to use her again. :/ And anyone should know Anna is fairly speedy for an axe wielder... Not just me. She just can't take physical hits worth crap.

I always found it strange that Oboro and Hinata were tanky in either game. They don't wear any real protective armor or anything.

"fairly"? Anna's literally a Myrmidon with axes. That, in itself, is badass. I wasn't even using her on my first file, but I could tell she was badass.

[Arcanite]

6 hours ago, Soul~! said:

"fairly"? Anna's literally a Myrmidon with axes. That, in itself, is badass. I wasn't even using her on my first file, but I could tell she was badass.

I have a four star Anna, so I can totally vouch for this. I have to get her to five stars though so my animal sacrifices can have full effect.

Edit: Btw, the confusion between anacybele and extrasolar. Anacybele thought Soul was talking about Her when soul said "Ana knows what a real myrmidon is", not realizing soul meant ANNA as in the one from heroes and not ANA aka Anacybele from Serene forest. Thus starting the confusion.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Arcanite

[Florete]

18 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Doubles things and deals a whole 5 damage, while dying immediately to a 40% chance to hit that she spectacularly fails to avoid. Hinata can actually take a hit, likely dodge it with his much better chance to avoid, and also...his crits, you know, actually kill things.

Just speaking purely in Heroes, Hana might as well have negative defense, as she'll pretty much 100% die to anyone's attack. She might get a kill, but she's screwed on the very next turn. Not exactly conductive to high scores in the arena.

In Fates, Hana has the 2nd highest personal Str growth out of all the Birthright characters, losing only to Kagero (also loses to Effie and Keaton and ties with Charlotte). She doesn't have the greatest of bases, but she'll grow out of that rut fast.

In Heroes, well, I think there's a reason people aren't valuing healers much: a powerful offense is the best strategy. Hana isn't soloing any teams, but so long as you pick her fights properly she's pretty valuable. She may be super squishy, but a dead enemy can't hurt you, and she's better at making enemies dead than almost anyone else.

[Extrasolar]

8 minutes ago, Florete said:

In Fates, Hana has the 2nd highest personal Str growth out of all the Birthright characters, losing only to Kagero (also loses to Effie and Keaton and ties with Charlotte). She doesn't have the greatest of bases, but she'll grow out of that rut fast.

Every time I've used her, she's spectacularly failed to dodge 40% hit chances and with her paper defense has died long before she got even the chance to kill an enemy. I learned, and bench her pretty much immediately ever since. I much prefer Hinata when Ryoma isn't available, as he can easily take a hit, tends to dodge more often than her, and deals pretty good damage and whatnot. Honestly Fates in general makes tankiness more important and more reliable than pure damage in most cases.
 

14 minutes ago, Florete said:

In Heroes, well, I think there's a reason people aren't valuing healers much: a powerful offense is the best strategy. Hana isn't soloing any teams, but so long as you pick her fights properly she's pretty valuable. She may be super squishy, but a dead enemy can't hurt you, and she's better at making enemies dead than almost anyone else.

As heroes in general in the arena tend to clump up in groups when approaching, she most often cannot go for a kill that won't lead her to biting the bullet the next turn, unless you deliberately set up your team and play around around her with swap, reposition, and the like, which limits your options as far as teams go. In general, if I want a glass cannon, I'll stick to people like my 5* Klein, who at least has the advantage of range when attacking.

[Ice Dragon]

16 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

As heroes in general in the arena tend to clump up in groups when approaching, she most often cannot go for a kill that won't lead her to biting the bullet the next turn, unless you deliberately set up your team and play around around her with swap, reposition, and the like, which limits your options as far as teams go. In general, if I want a glass cannon, I'll stick to people like my 5* Klein, who at least has the advantage of range when attacking.

Depending on how you have your team set up, you can typically bait out certain ranged opponents to split them from the rest of the enemy units. Once the enemy is down a unit or two, you can swarm the enemy on the next turn to clean them up.

The advantage of using Hana is that she is nearly guaranteed a solo kill without needing another unit to finish the job. Few characters in Heroes are capable of landing one-round kills against Lucina, Ryoma, or Hector, and that frees up your other units to focus on everything else. If you can find a tile where only one enemy can reach her, she can even take her one kill on the counterattack, though she'll be virtually out of commission for the remainder of the match (you can still use her to clean up other people's non-one-round-kills, though).

That said, Tharja, Linde, Nino, and Klein serve nearly the exact same purpose with no threat of a counterattack, which is why they are A+ or higher and Hana is not.