thehell Hinata & Oboro

[L9999]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

In Fates, Hana has the 2nd highest personal Str growth out of all the Birthright characters, losing only to Kagero (also loses to Effie and Keaton and ties with Charlotte). She doesn't have the greatest of bases, but she'll grow out of that rut fast.

In Heroes, well, I think there's a reason people aren't valuing healers much: a powerful offense is the best strategy. Hana isn't soloing any teams, but so long as you pick her fights properly she's pretty valuable. She may be super squishy, but a dead enemy can't hurt you, and she's better at making enemies dead than almost anyone else.

Why waste time on Hana when Ryoma the Game Trivializer exists?

Edited March 6, 2017 by L9999

[Elieson]

3 minutes ago, L9999 said:

Why waste time on Hana when Ryoma the Game Trivializer exists?

<Inserts "you cant trivialize the game with ryoma if you never get ryoma" meme>

[Jedi]

4 minutes ago, L9999 said:

Why waste time on Hana when Ryoma the Game Trivializer exists?

Replace Ryoma with Kaze and you're kind of right, but people like having fun with all the characters.

[L9999]

Just now, Elieson said:

<Inserts "you cant trivialize the game with ryoma if you never get ryoma" meme>

Was talking about Fates....

[Florete]

6 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Every time I've used her, she's spectacularly failed to dodge 40% hit chances and with her paper defense has died long before she got even the chance to kill an enemy. I learned, and bench her pretty much immediately ever since. I much prefer Hinata when Ryoma isn't available, as he can easily take a hit, tends to dodge more often than her, and deals pretty good damage and whatnot. Honestly Fates in general makes tankiness more important and more reliable than pure damage in most cases.
 

As heroes in general in the arena tend to clump up in groups when approaching, she most often cannot go for a kill that won't lead her to biting the bullet the next turn, unless you deliberately set up your team and play around around her with swap, reposition, and the like, which limits your options as far as teams go. In general, if I want a glass cannon, I'll stick to people like my 5* Klein, who at least has the advantage of range when attacking.

This isn't a Fates topic. I'm not going to continue talking about that game. I can't help but wonder how Hinata's 15% Spd growth (to Hana's 55%) is getting him more dodges, though.

My Arena team is Anna, RobinM, Eirika, and Peri, all lv 40 5*. Eirika and Robin are both -Def while Peri is -Res (+Atk for Robin, +Spd for Eirika and Peri), so this clearly isn't a tanky team, yet I still typically manage to win arena battles without losing anyone because I bait in the right opponents and manage my units properly. Again, I don't think Hana is amazing, but I'll still take her here over Hinata because she can usually take one hit where it matters, and that ends up usually being all you need. Hinata has a lot of Def, but Ruby Sword and his lack of Spd and Res make it hard for him to handle anything that's not green.

3 hours ago, L9999 said:

Why waste time on Hana when Ryoma the Game Trivializer exists?

Never ask this question again. The answer will always be "Because I fucking want to." Trivializing the game is also boring.

Sorry if this comes off as really aggressive, but I absolutely hate it when people ask this kind of question. Fire Emblem games give us the freedom to use whoever we want and the worst thing this fandom has ever done is tell people which ones they should or should not be using.

[Extrasolar]

21 minutes ago, Florete said:

This isn't a Fates topic. I'm not going to continue talking about that game. I can't help but wonder how Hinata's 15% Spd growth (to Hana's 55%) is getting him more dodges, though.

I mean, why say you're not going to continue talking about it right before you continue talking about it?

But to answer your question, it's because Fates avoid RNG is pretty screwy beyond belief at times, and imo it makes Hana more of a pain to use than anything else. I can't tell you how many times my mind boggled at Hana getting killed by 20% hit chances while struggling to train her past her bad start. Not very fun.

Which is why dodging (at least, Hana dodging) is not reliable, and I much prefer a unit that can tank a hit and live rather than one that gets blown up by hits she should have dodged.

21 minutes ago, Florete said:

My Arena team is Anna, RobinM, Eirika, and Peri, all lv 40 5*. Eirika and Robin are both -Def while Peri is -Res (+Atk for Robin, +Spd for Eirika and Peri), so this clearly isn't a tanky team, yet I still typically manage to win arena battles without losing anyone because I bait in the right opponents and manage my units properly. Again, I don't think Hana is amazing, but I'll still take her here over Hinata because she can usually take one hit where it matters, and that ends up usually being all you need. Hinata has a lot of Def, but Ruby Sword and his lack of Spd and Res make it hard for him to handle anything that's not green.

M!Robin actually has some pretty decent bulk, especially for a mage. I've had mine (also 4*) work as an off-tank with decent attacking stats, especially with Bonfire and Defiant Speed meaning that he might double a unit he otherwise wouldn't. Peri is also decently tanky (as cavaliers in this game tend to be), while Eirika is indeed squishy, she has great use as a supportive unit.

Basically I'm not saying you need to have a full-tank team to win. I'm just saying I prefer units that are capable of taking a hit at least most of the time, since sometimes your units of choice tend to get screwed over by the map and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Having someone capable of surviving at least one extra turn in case I need to reposition or what have you is something I value a lot.
 

Edited March 6, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Arcanite]

4 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

M!Robin actually has some pretty decent bulk, especially for a mage. I've had mine (also 4*) work as an off-tank with decent attacking stats, especially with Bonfire and Defiant Speed meaning that he might double a unit he otherwise wouldn't. Peri is also decently tanky (as cavaliers in this game tend to be), while Eirika is indeed squishy, she has great use as a supportive unit.

Basically I'm not saying you need to have a full-tank team to win. I'm just saying I prefer units that are capable of taking a hit at least most of the time, since sometimes your units of choice tend to get screwed over by the map and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. Having someone capable of surviving at least one extra turn in case I need to reposition or what have you is something I value a lot.
 

Defense is the best offense. And wait till you get a 5 star Robin, that's when the bulk is really ridiculous!

I like how we started on Hinata and Oboro and now we're talking about a bunch of other stuff :P

[Katrisa]

Oboro is a weird duck.  She gets doubled by many reds and archers... but since she has advantage against reds she tanks them out and then slays them the next turn.  Likewise she is able to face tank most blues due to relatively high defense (Despite taking a second hit).  Her overall stats are middling at ~169 max.  But this is only due to her having a heavy spear.  With a 16Mt weapon Oboro would technically have 173 max stats matching some of the best tiered units.

She's also an excellent debuffer.  If she can survive the round the next turn nearby foes are suffering up to -5 Res and whoever attacked her is at -7 Def.  

Her problem though is that darn speed she just get doubled by too many match ups to be an optimal choice.  I suspect people will look at Oboro wanting to user her, but instead canibalize her for her skills into tanks (with swap and pivot) to get those debuffs up to the front of the pack asap.

[Arcanite]

13 minutes ago, Katrisa said:

Oboro is a weird duck.  She gets doubled by many reds and archers... but since she has advantage against reds she tanks them out and then slays them the next turn.  Likewise she is able to face tank most blues due to relatively high defense (Despite taking a second hit).  Her overall stats are middling at ~169 max.  But this is only due to her having a heavy spear.  With a 16Mt weapon Oboro would technically have 173 max stats matching some of the best tiered units.

She's also an excellent debuffer.  If she can survive the round the next turn nearby foes are suffering up to -5 Res and whoever attacked her is at -7 Def.  

Her problem though is that darn speed she just get doubled by too many match ups to be an optimal choice.  I suspect people will look at Oboro wanting to user her, but instead canibalize her for her skills into tanks (with swap and pivot) to get those debuffs up to the front of the pack asap.

Oboro + F corrin = Debuffs-a-plenty. You can hypothetically debuff every stat with a team like that.

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, Extrasolar said:

Peri is also decently tanky (as cavaliers in this game tend to be)

Peri is only tanky against magic. Her physical bulk is only 35/23 (58 Atk in a single hit kills her or 2 hits of 41 Atk) compared to Robin's 40/29 (69 Atk or 2 of 49 Atk) on the mid-high end and Hana's 37/18 (55 Atk or 2 of 37 Atk) on the low end.

Hana can at least avoid being being double attacked with her amazing 41 Spd so you really need 55 Atk to kill her, but Peri's 33 Spd leaves her open to being double attacked by the [+Spd] variants of Ryoma and Lucina, both of whom will leave her with 1 HP remaining with [=HP, =Def], as well as a very long list of characters if the opponent runs Hone Spd (Ryoma and Eirika, the latter of which seems to be getting more common) or got in range to activate Threaten Spd (Takumi).