Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[Stroud]

49 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Looking for suggestions for +Atk/-HP Hinoka?

I'm guessing Luna would a good special?

I'm a bit torn between Lancebreaker, Drag Back or Hit and Run for her B skill though. I do have lots of axe fliers (including a Cherche with Drag Back) so not sure if Lancebreaker is needed but I guess extra coverage is good (only LB2 though since I have a spare Arthur). Drag Back/Hit and Run seem nice to but I can't decided which one is better,

I don't have Death Blow, but I guess I have a Hana for Life and Death, would that be good, too?

I played Hinoka/Cherche combination which worked really well for me.
I think Drag Back/Hit and Run is nice in case you play both of them with Reposion.

QR is also an option for defending Units like Cherche with Reposition.

I played Hinoka with TA because she was there for blocking units, which are a problem for Cherche.

For Skill I'm not sure, but Luna looks ok for me, because it is not dependend on her own attack/def, not sure then a skill which depends on attack is worth it =o.
Draconic Aura might also be an option..

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Stroud

[XRay]

52 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

Looking for suggestions for +Atk/-HP Hinoka?

I'm guessing Luna would a good special?

I'm a bit torn between Lancebreaker, Drag Back or Hit and Run for her B skill though. I do have lots of axe fliers (including a Cherche with Drag Back) so not sure if Lancebreaker is needed but I guess extra coverage is good (only LB2 though since I have a spare Arthur). Drag Back/Hit and Run seem nice to but I can't decided which one is better,

I don't have Death Blow, but I guess I have a Hana for Life and Death, would that be good, too?

Life and Death and Lancebreaker will give her the most kills.

3 minutes ago, Stroud said:

I played Hinoka/Cherche combination which worked really well for me.
I think Drag Back/Hit and Run is nice in case you play both of them with Reposion.

QR is also an option for defending Units like Cherche with Reposition.

I played Hinoka with TA because she was there for blocking units, which are a problem for Cherche.

For Skill I'm not sure, but Luna looks ok for me, because it is not dependend on her own attack/def, not sure then a skill which depends on attack is worth it =o.
Draconic Aura might also be an option..

 

Quick Riposte is more for Enemy Phase units. Cherche can kill a lot more on Player Phase with her Brave Axe build and Axebreaker.

Hinoka with Triangle Adept severely limits Hinoka's offensive potential.

 

[Stroud]

Sorry if it sounded like I wanted to say that QR was for Cherche, skills like Axebreaker or Drag Back are better for her ;/.

QR/TA was for Hinoka to protect Cherche.I admit that Sword breaker/Lance Breaker may be a better option in this case. She has still a niche at defending against some units which will go to waste with LaD in my opinion, especially if Cherche does the job against blue/green units.

Attack phase -> Cherche attacks green/blue unit with Drag Back, if there is still a Red unit in the way Hinoka can save her with Reposition and TA allows her to survive more Red Units.

I often build my characters with sync in mind. If you see Hinoka as a lone unit. Another build may be better.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Stroud

[Clogon]

I have 2 takumis (-ATK/+SPD) and (-DEF/+RES). I am thinking of keeping the -ATK/+SPD as Close Counter relies on DEF (I would have prefered -RES/+SPD). I just don't know who to give the second Close Counter to. S!Camilla seems like a great choice but I am open to other suggestions. I have all of the default all range counter reds so I am thinking of giving it to a non red.

 

I also have an extra Firesweep Lance+ to go around. My Cordelia already has one so I am thinking about keeping it for the future. My Tana has bad IV's so I am not giving it to her plus her lance has a great effect already.

 

Any ideas?

[Tragonight]

Should I give Life and Death to my +Spd -HP Tharja? I know people have been using Fury over Life and Death for Nino now, and Tharja's default Darting Blow has sufficed a lot of times that I've used her. I'll be merging an old bad IV Tharja into this newer Tharja, and I was just wondering if Life and Death is worth inheriting and using.

[Ae†her]

4 hours ago, Tragonight said:

Should I give Life and Death to my +Spd -HP Tharja? I know people have been using Fury over Life and Death for Nino now, and Tharja's default Darting Blow has sufficed a lot of times that I've used her. I'll be merging an old bad IV Tharja into this newer Tharja, and I was just wondering if Life and Death is worth inheriting and using.

L&D3 means you'll be dedicating her to being a glass canon essentially, she's can't tank physical attacks, and now she can't tank non-Green magical attacks. You'll want to ensure if you're going to run L&D3 that she can safely enter into the Desperation range one way or another. Personally I'm also at a bit of a conflict with myself on this matter because I too have a Tharja with decent IVs (+Spd/-Res), and while I know how good Fury 3 can be for Bladetome units like Nino (My Fury 3 Nino is my best unit), L&D3 gives a slightly better boost in Atk/Spd at the cost of losing a lot of bulk. If you don't have a good way for ensuring that Tharja can be dropped into the desperation range, then Fury 3 might be the best way to go as it increases bulk allowing you're Tharja to safely take some damage plus the 6 from the skill to drop her easily into the Desperation range. Your Tharja is minus HP meaning it takes not as much damage to drop her into the Desperation range, but note even if you avoid a counterattack at full HP - the 6 from Fury 3 (35HP - 6HP = 29HP) she still won't be in the Desperation range. I have this same problem with my NIno, she won't get to desperation range after one Fury 3 sucker punch, but even then she can pull through by tanking some damage with 29 Res due to the skill. It's you're call if you want an all out glass canon, or semi-glass canon that's easier to manage.

[XRay]

7 hours ago, Tragonight said:

Should I give Life and Death to my +Spd -HP Tharja? I know people have been using Fury over Life and Death for Nino now, and Tharja's default Darting Blow has sufficed a lot of times that I've used her. I'll be merging an old bad IV Tharja into this newer Tharja, and I was just wondering if Life and Death is worth inheriting and using.

 

2 hours ago, Logos said:

L&D3 means you'll be dedicating her to being a glass canon essentially, she's can't tank physical attacks, and now she can't tank non-Green magical attacks. You'll want to ensure if you're going to run L&D3 that she can safely enter into the Desperation range one way or another. Personally I'm also at a bit of a conflict with myself on this matter because I too have a Tharja with decent IVs (+Spd/-Res), and while I know how good Fury 3 can be for Bladetome units like Nino (My Fury 3 Nino is my best unit), L&D3 gives a slightly better boost in Atk/Spd at the cost of losing a lot of bulk. If you don't have a good way for ensuring that Tharja can be dropped into the desperation range, then Fury 3 might be the best way to go as it increases bulk allowing you're Tharja to safely take some damage plus the 6 from the skill to drop her easily into the Desperation range. Your Tharja is minus HP meaning it takes not as much damage to drop her into the Desperation range, but note even if you avoid a counterattack at full HP - the 6 from Fury 3 (35HP - 6HP = 29HP) she still won't be in the Desperation range. I have this same problem with my NIno, she won't get to desperation range after one Fury 3 sucker punch, but even then she can pull through by tanking some damage with 29 Res due to the skill. It's you're call if you want an all out glass canon, or semi-glass canon that's easier to manage.

I would personally go with Life and Death if you have the resources, especially for top tier mages like Tharja.

In my opinion, boosting Defense and Resistance is unnecessary if she has teammates who can Assist her out of Enemy range. Not being hit at all is better than tanking in my opinion, since enemies can charge their Specials and possibly get into Vantage range if you allow them to initiate on Enemy Phase.

Tharja is unlikely to be killed in one hit anyways even with a drop in bulk. The drop in bulk also helps her reach Desperation range easily with one enemy counter attack, so I do not think Fury has that much advantage over Life and Death for getting into Desperation range.

Life and Death's extra Speed also allows Tharja to double more units, and in turn, utilize Desperation better.

[Ae†her]

15 minutes ago, XRay said:

Tharja is unlikely to be killed in one hit anyways even with a drop in bulk. The drop in bulk also helps her reach Desperation range easily with one enemy counter attack, so I do not think Fury has that much advantage over Life and Death for getting into Desperation range.

You'd be surprised what can kill her. If a -HP/+Spd Tharja runs L&D 3 then a Neutral IV Sanaki or Ragnarok Celica could one shot her; it only takes 50 Atk. It only takes 53 Atk to kill her for a sword unit to kill her as well, Fury 3 Ryoma, Lucina, Ike could kill her in one shot. She'll only survive from Green's, and blues will annihilate her.

[XRay]

5 hours ago, Logos said:

You'd be surprised what can kill her. If a -HP/+Spd Tharja runs L&D 3 then a Neutral IV Sanaki or Ragnarok Celica could one shot her; it only takes 50 Atk. It only takes 53 Atk to kill her for a sword unit to kill her as well, Fury 3 Ryoma, Lucina, Ike could kill her in one shot. She'll only survive from Green's, and blues will annihilate her.

I ran the calculations and Tharja [+Spd, -HP] does run better with Fury, although if enemies are running Fury themselves, then Life and Death is better in my opinion. The increase in kill count is worth the increase in death count since she is not going to attack things she is weak against anyways since she operates in a team.

Tharja +Spd -HP
Rauðrblade
Fury
Eirika Buff [3Atk, 4 Spd]
Player Phase 140:3:21
Player Phase [Enemies with Fury] 120:6:38

Tharja +Spd -HP
Rauðrblade
Life and Death
Eirika Buff [3Atk, 4 Spd]
Player Phase 137:10:17
Player Phase [Enemies with Fury] 126:18:20

On 8/21/2017 at 3:07 AM, Clogon said:

I have 2 takumis (-ATK/+SPD) and (-DEF/+RES). I am thinking of keeping the -ATK/+SPD as Close Counter relies on DEF (I would have prefered -RES/+SPD). I just don't know who to give the second Close Counter to. S!Camilla seems like a great choice but I am open to other suggestions. I have all of the default all range counter reds so I am thinking of giving it to a non red.

I also have an extra Firesweep Lance+ to go around. My Cordelia already has one so I am thinking about keeping it for the future. My Tana has bad IV's so I am not giving it to her plus her lance has a great effect already.

Any ideas?

I have not used any of my own Takumis yet for skill fodder since I cannot really think of any top tier ranged units who would want to use that skill over Life and Death or Fury. You can give it to your Raven mages so they can counter melee weapons they are good against.

Edited August 29, 2017 by XRay

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, Logos said:

You'd be surprised what can kill her. If a -HP/+Spd Tharja runs L&D 3 then a Neutral IV Sanaki or Ragnarok Celica could one shot her; it only takes 50 Atk. It only takes 53 Atk to kill her for a sword unit to kill her as well, Fury 3 Ryoma, Lucina, Ike could kill her in one shot. She'll only survive from Green's, and blues will annihilate her.

I'm currently running Tharja in my Arena Assault rotation, which means she comes in on Hector, tanks a hit, and has Desperation up to sweep the rest of the map.

Tharja only has to worry about a counterattack on the first round of combat, and you should be able to pick that fight to fall in your favor. After that, you either one-hit kill your opponents, ignore their counterattack with Desperation, or avoid them. You shouldn't ever need to tank a hit on enemy phase because mobility assists are a thing.

If you're playing using a player-phase team, which is what Tharja is used for, you always pick your engagements, meaning you never should be fighting at a disadvantage, and your units' teammates should cover everything else.

[Tragonight]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone, appreciate it. I decided to go with Life and Death.

[Tenzen12]

Finally got Brave Ike, but he is -atk +def would Bonfire be better on him than Aether?

Also in process I got two bad  IV Lancinas (-SPD/+RES and +HP/-Atk )which I should use and what build give her?

Edited September 4, 2017 by Tenzen12

[XRay]

3 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Finally got Brave Ike, but he is -atk +def would Bonfire be better on him than Aether?

Also in process I got two bad  IV Lancinas (-SPD/+RES and +HP/-Atk )which I should use and what build give her?

For damage output, Bonfire is always better than Aether. Aether is primarily used for Arena scoring, not for its combat performance.

I would not use the -Spd, since combat units need at least neutral Speed to function well and support units need Speed to avoid being doubled to survive; that Resistance boon also is not going to help her pitiful Resistance stat. With [+HP, -Atk], BH!Lucina can at least be a dedicated support unit even if she cannot function as well as a combat unit.

[mcsilas]

22 minutes ago, XRay said:

For damage output, Bonfire is always better than Aether. Aether is primarily used for Arena scoring, not for its combat performance.

I would not use the -Spd, since combat units need at least neutral Speed to function well and support units need Speed to avoid being doubled to survive; that Resistance boon also is not going to help her pitiful Resistance stat. With [+HP, -Atk], BH!Lucina can at least be a dedicated support unit even if she cannot function as well as a combat unit.

I have the same Ike but I'm just pondering...would Ignis be better in conjunction with Steady Breath? Although it's already too late and I gave him Aether (didn't have Ignis fodder)/

I do have a +Res/-HP Ike though who will probably be my combat unit (I guess Luna/Aether is better for arena?) while the +Def one can be for Arena Defense.

 

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, mcsilas said:

I have the same Ike but I'm just pondering...would Ignis be better in conjunction with Steady Breath? Although it's already too late and I gave him Aether (didn't have Ignis fodder)/

I do have a +Res/-HP Ike though who will probably be my combat unit (I guess Luna/Aether is better for arena?) while the +Def one can be for Arena Defense.

I think Ike is one of the few exceptions where Speed bane does not matter too much due to the effect of Urvan, so I would keep that one over [+Res, -HP].

If Ike is keeping Beorc's Blessing, then Bonfire is better. If Ike is using Quick Riposte, then Ignis is better.

[mcsilas]

Just now, XRay said:

I think Ike is one of the few exceptions where Speed bane does not matter too much due to the effect of Urvan, so I would keep that one over [+Res, -HP].

If Ike is keeping Beorc's Blessing, then Bonfire is better. If Ike is using Quick Riposte, then Ignis is better.

Sorry I meant my other Ike was -Atk/+Def

But I guess the special advice is good to take into account

[Tenzen12]

Yes,thanks for help.

[Tragonight]

What skill is overall better for Quick Riposte Heavy Blade Ike, Luna or Dragon Fang? I've been considering DF for its damage output, but I'm not sure if 3 or 4 charge is better for utilizing Heavy Blade to its fullest. This is sword Ike, +Atk -Spd, by the way.

[Kaden]

Mostly writing this down to keep track of numbers for Eliwood. He's a bonus unit for the mini-TT going on and like with the previous TT's bonus units, he's going to get a lot of SP which for me, is annoying since I have a ton of units who just exist.

Against vanilla units and +Atk, -Res Eliwood.

Spoiler

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Darting Blow 3 gets 69 wins, 9 losses, and 90 draws. Default Axebreaker ups this to 73 wins; Swordbreaker ups this to 89 wins, 6 losses, and 73 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 131 wins, 7 losses, and 30 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 135 wins, 6 losses, and 27 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 147 wins, 7 losses, and 14 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 150 wins, 6 losses, and 12 draws.

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Death Blow 3 gets 64 wins, 24 losses, and 80 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 72 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 92 wins, 14 losses, and 62 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 116 wins, 8 losses, and 44 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 118 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 128 wins, 6 losses, and 34 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 150 wins, 7 losses, and 11 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 152 wins, 6 losses, and 10 draws.

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Swift Sparrow 2 gets 76 wins, 8 losses, and 84 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 81 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 99 wins, 6 losses, and 63 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 136 wins, 7 losses, and 25 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 143 wins, 6 losses, and 19 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 154 wins, 7 losses, and 7 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 156 wins, 6 losses, and 6 draws.

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Fury 3 gets 70 wins, 11 losses, and 87 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 75 wins, 10 losses, and 83 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 94 wins, 9 losses, and 65 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 124 wins, 7 losses, and 37 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 136 wins, 6 losses, and 26 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 149 wins, 7 losses, and 12 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 151 wins, 6 losses, and 11 draws.

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Life & Death 3 gets 83 wins, 20 losses, and 65 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 87 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 104 wins, 18 losses, and 46 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 140 wins, 8 losses, and 44 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 143 wins, 18 losses, and 7 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 146 wins, 19 losses, and 3 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 148 wins, 18 losses, and 2 draws.

Against vanilla units and +Spd, -Res Eliwood.

Spoiler

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Darting Blow 3 gets 77 wins, 7 losses, and 84 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 80 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 91 wins, 6 losses, and 71 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 132 wins, 7 losses, and 29 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 134 wins, 6 losses, and 28 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 140 wins, 7 losses, and 21 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 142 wins, 6 losses, and 20 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Death Blow 3 gets 70 wins, 12 losses, and 86 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 75 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 94 wins, 6 losses, and 65 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 124 wins, 7 losses, and 37 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 136 wins, 6 losses, and 26 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 149 wins, 7 losses, and 12 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 151 wins, 6 losses, and 11 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Swift Sparrow 2 gets 82 wins, 8 losses, and 78 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 80 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 91 wins, 6 losses, and 71 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 138 wins, 7 losses, and 23 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 142 wins, 6 losses, and 20 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 148 wins, 7 losses, and 13 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 150 wins, 6 losses, and 12 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Fury 3 gets 69 wins, 8 losses, and 91 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 80 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 91 wins, 6 losses, and 71 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 131 wins, 7 losses, and 30 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 135 wins, 6 losses, and 27 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 147 wins, 7 losses, and 14 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 150 wins, 6 losses, and 12 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with L&D3 gets 94 wins, 19 losses, and 55 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 96 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 111 wins, 18 losses, and 39 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 138 wins, 19 losses, and 11 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 141 wins, 18 losses, and 9 draws.
• With Hone and Goad Cavalry, 141 wins, 19 losses, and 8 draws. Axebreaker results in no changes; Swordbreaker increases this to 143 wins, 18 losses, and 7 draws.

The rundown is Swift Sparrow gives Eliwood the overall strongest unbuffed and buffed results and Fury 3 works as an alternative, but Eliwood will always take 6 damage on top of whatever else he will take on his unbuffed 26 defense which might not be ideal for longer maps without a healer.

Darting Blow gives him good overall results as well, but caps a bit lower, especially on +Spd Eliwood who would want more attack to close out the units he can double.

L&D gives him the strongest unbuffed results, but as Eliwood's main defense is resistance Eliwood can't really take hits that well. I think it's the worst option out of the ones I've checked since you're turning Eliwood into a glass cannon who isn't using a Brave Sword/cannot guarantee a two hits unscathed as most units are 1-range.

Death Blow really needs him to stack buffs upon buffs to get as much wins as he can, so, it might not be ideal if you're running him on a ragtag team, especially if he's +Atk since his average speed stops him from doubling some units and although he can have 60 total attack on initiation with +Atk, Eliwood is a unit whose base neutral attack is 31 which is fairly average. That being said, if you just need Eliwood to one-shot greens and (low) defense reds and colorless units, it could be fine.

Likewise with Death Blow, +Atk Eliwood ends up stronger than +Spd Eliwood who has better results unbuffed.

Now to address the elephant in the room. Yes, BH Roy is better than Eliwood. There is absolutely no question to that when BH Roy's offensive stats are better than Eliwood; Roy has 32 attack and 34 speed to Eliwood's 31 attack and 30 speed. Even without being +Atk, a neutral Roy with just Blazing Durandal which gives him +3 to his attack ends up with 51 total attack at all times to +Atk Eliwood's 54 when he initiates and 50 when he is attacked. Also, the speed difference and that Roy would have an easier time taking hits if he needs to with his 26 base defense to Eliwood's 23.

Eliwood still has his niche and that is with his high resistance which can make use of ploys and he's also the only sword cavalier with good resistance even when -Res since the next highest to his is BH Roy's 24 which is 5 less than -Res Eliwood's. With a Brave Sword and Def Ploy, he can be a strong Brave Sword cavalier, but that does require he can debuff his unit. Personally, I'd rather use Cain or Luke instead as Brave Sword cavaliers and I'd rather wait for another sword cavalier with high resistance and who doesn't have a legendary weapon since it's kind Durandal is still pretty good.

This part is more for me since I like to prepare for worst case scenarios in singleplayer maps. Against +10 merged units.

Spoiler

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Darting Blow 3 gets 25 wins, 28 losses, and 115 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 34 wins, 25 losses, and 109 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 40 wins, 21 losses, and 107 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 78 wins, 19 losses, and 71 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 81 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 96 wins, 18 losses, and 54 draws.

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Death Blow 3 gets 16 wins, 50 losses, and 102 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 36 wins, 45 losses, and 87 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 44 wins, 31 losses, and 93 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 71 wins, 24 losses, and 73 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 77 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 95 wins, 18 losses, and 55 draws.

+Atk, -Res Eliwood with Swift Sparrow 2 gets 28 wins, 35 losses, and 105 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 42 wins, 33 losses, and 93 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 52 wins, 22 losses, and 94 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 83 wins, 20 losses, and 65 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 88 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 102 wins, 18 losses, and 48 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Darting Blow 3 gets 32 wins, 22 losses, and 114 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 36 wins, 21 losses, and 111 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 42 wins, 19 losses, and 107 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 84 draws, 20 losses, and 64 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 87 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 92 wins, 19 losses, and 57 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Death Blow 3 gets 16 wins, 40 losses, and 112 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 32 wins, 37 losses, and 99 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 37 wins, 25 losses, and 106 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 75 wins, 20 losses, and 74 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 79 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 95 wins, 18 losses, and 55 draws.

+Spd, -Res Eliwood with Swift Sparrow 2 gets 30 wins, 25 losses, and 113 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 39 wins, 22 losses, and 107 draws; Swordbreaker increases this to 48 wins, 21 losses, and 99 draws.

• With Hone Cavalry, 95 wins, 19 losses, and 54 draws. Axebreaker increases this to 97 wins; Swordbreaker increases this to 111 wins, 18 losses, and 39 draws.

In the case of +10 merged units or +10-like merged enemies that can be found in stuff like Lunatic Tempest Trials, increased stats means it's harder for Eliwood to double units making +Spd Eliwood stronger than +Atk Eliwood in this scenario. Swift Sparrow is, of course, the strongest option. For +Atk Eliwood, he probably wants Darting Blow and its only weakness is with Swordbreaker having 4 less wins than with Death Blow, but unbuffed or buffed, Darting Blow has good overall results compared to Death Blow. For +Spd Eliwood, it's weird. Darting Blow also is good, but Death Blow ends up being a bit stronger with Swordbreaker and Hone Cavalry.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Kaden

[XRay]

On 9/4/2017 at 3:38 PM, Tragonight said:

What skill is overall better for Quick Riposte Heavy Blade Ike, Luna or Dragon Fang? I've been considering DF for its damage output, but I'm not sure if 3 or 4 charge is better for utilizing Heavy Blade to its fullest. This is sword Ike, +Atk -Spd, by the way.

Go with Bonfire.

Ike +Atk -Spd
Ragnell
Heavy Blade, Quick Riposte
Enemy Phase [Bonfire] 120:27:21
Enemy Phase [Ignis] 109:27:32

[GespenstMK2S]

For my +Spd, -HP Summer Corrin, will it be better to give her Fury for her A skill? Or to keep Swift Strike? She has Desperation and I do plan to give her Blarblade+ eventually.

For my +Atk, -Spd Brave Roy, what will be a good B skill for him? Desperation doesn't seem to be all that good on him, since he only has 31 speed. I'm planning to give him Fury, so Quick Riposte doesn't seem like a good skill to give him either.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, GespenstMK2S said:

For my +Spd, -HP Summer Corrin, will it be better to give her Fury for her A skill? Or to keep Swift Strike? She has Desperation and I do plan to give her Blarblade+ eventually.

For my +Atk, -Spd Brave Roy, what will be a good B skill for him? Desperation doesn't seem to be all that good on him, since he only has 31 speed. I'm planning to give him Fury, so Quick Riposte doesn't seem like a good skill to give him either.

Fury is fine. If you have more resources to spend and NS!Corrin has some merges and Hone Flier support, her best A slot is Swift Sparrow instead of Life and Death.

I am personally against mixing Player Phase and Enemy Phase skills on the same unit, or giving a unit that is specialized in one phase a skill that activates on the other phase. In my opinion, it severely limits their potential. Even with -Spd, BH!Roy still functions much better as a Player Phase unit.

Roy +Atk -Spd
Blazing Durandal, Draconic Aura
Fury, Swordbreaker
Player Phase 105:5:38
Player Phase [Life and Death] 117:13:38
Player Phase [Swift Sparrow] 114:6:48

Roy +Atk -Spd
Blazing Durandal, Draconic Aura
Fury, Quick Riposte
Enemy Phase 80:17:71
Enemy Phase [Distant Counter] 113:36:19

[Reiska]

I'm curious about something, and I feel like this is probably the place to ask: has anyone figured out optimal "budget" builds for characters (i.e. no 5* exclusive skills, no weapon changes from default, and no skills only found on seasonal units)?  I used to typically use the gamepedia wiki as a starting point for figuring out how to build my characters, but they got rid of the suggested skills listings from their strategy pages in favor of just posting cookie-cutter builds because they're easier for the limited editing staff to maintain; however, a lot of those builds are simply unattainable for casual F2Ps/etc.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Reiska said:

I'm curious about something, and I feel like this is probably the place to ask: has anyone figured out optimal "budget" builds for characters (i.e. no 5* exclusive skills, no weapon changes from default, and no skills only found on seasonal units)?  I used to typically use the gamepedia wiki as a starting point for figuring out how to build my characters, but they got rid of the suggested skills listings from their strategy pages in favor of just posting cookie-cutter builds because they're easier for the limited editing staff to maintain; however, a lot of those builds are simply unattainable for casual F2Ps/etc.

No weapon changes from default is impractical. You can inherit regular Brave/Gem/Killer/Blade/Raven/Poison/Breath and many units will do fine.

For Player Phase units, some units need Death Blow instead of Swift Sparrow or Life and Death, and Death Blow is available at 4*, so their optimal build also counts as budget. For units that need Swift Sparrow or Life and Death, their budget option is Fury.

For Enemy Phase units, their budget A slot is Fury. Some builds uses Triangle Adept to wall, and that is also available at 4*

For Player Phase units' B slot, besides Lancebreaker and B Tomebreaker, all Breakers are available at 4* on unlimited units; Desperation is also available at 4*.

For Enemy Phase units, Vantage is available at 4*. However, only Quick Riposte 2 is available at 4*.

For C slot, all basic Hones, Fortifies, Spurs, Threaten, Savage Blow, and Breath of Life are available at 4*. Besides Goad Armor and Goad Cavalry, all armor and cavalry buffs are available at 4* on unlimited units. Flier buffs only have Goad Flier and Fortify Fliers available at 4*.

Edited September 10, 2017 by XRay

[Reiska]

50 minutes ago, XRay said:

No weapon changes from default is impractical. You can inherit regular Brave/Gem/Killer/Blade/Raven/Poison/Breath and many units will do fine.

For Player Phase units, some units need Death Blow instead of Swift Sparrow or Life and Death, and Death Blow is available at 4*, so their optimal build also counts as budget. For units that need Swift Sparrow or Life and Death, their budget option is Fury.

For Enemy Phase units, their budget A slot is Fury. Some builds uses Triangle Adept to wall, and that is also available at 4*

For Player Phase units' B slot, besides Lancebreaker and B Tomebreaker, all Breakers are available at 4* on unlimited units; Desperation is also available at 4*.

For Enemy Phase units, Vantage is available at 4*. However, only Quick Riposte 2 is available at 4*.

For C slot, all basic Hones, Fortifies, Spurs, Threaten, Savage Blow, and Breath of Life are available at 4*. Besides Goad Armor and Goad Cavalry, all armor and cavalry buffs are available at 4* on unlimited units. Flier buffs only have Goad Flier and Fortify Fliers available at 4*.

Thanks!  This is actually really helpful, going to save this for reference.

What would you use in place of Triangle Adept if you're really unlucky and have never pulled Roy?  Fury?

Edited September 10, 2017 by Reiska