Thoughts on Faye *spoilers*

[FrostyFireMage]

I've seen mostly negative reactions to her with people calling her a terribly written character and an irredeemable bitch but I'm wondering if that's really the case

First and foremost, Faye seems like a normal peasant girl. And by normal peasant girl I don't mean "super sweet and helpful" and "the best hunter in the village and has a lost-lost pirate brother" like Rebecca or "really likes fashion" and "had her parents killed by an enemy country" like Oboro. She doesn't really have a super-strong moral code or desire to protect the helpless either; the only reason she joins the army is to be close to Alm. She's just an average (and perhaps boring) girl living in a boring village who suddenly had a brave and heroic noble character enter her world. It would make sense for her to be attracted to the only non-mundane person in her life.

Also keep in mind she's a teenage girl who decided to take up arms and fight for her life, it makes sense for her to develop an insane crush on a unique person and making him her reason to cope with everything that's going on. Being a teenager comes with all the negative stuff such as being petty and selfish like with her joy over Alm's troubles with Celica. I think it's also prudent to mention that Faye's stalkerish behavior isn't portrayed in the slightest bit positively like with Tharja and Camilla and might actually be a deconstruction of sorts. Alm being the most important person in her life leads her to be a cold standoffish bitch to anyone who tries to be her friend, her crush only results in heartbreak and an unhappy existence, everyone else avoids her and her jealousy of Celica only makes her do extremely unlikable things. Despite this she isn't totally evil and eventually tries to move on (with great difficulty) and become a friendlier person.

Is she likable? Not really. Was she designed to be an adorable and virtuous special snowflake so people would desperately want to waifu her? Definitely not. Is she well written? I would actually say that she is. I think a nobody who will never achieve her dreams like her should be sympathized with rather than hated.

 

[Michelaar]

I agree with this.

 

I think another reason she has received much hate is that it goes against the Ultimate Ship of Alm and Celica. They also marry at the end of the story. People either love or hate this. In this case, they love it, In Chrom and Sumia's case, Many people hate it. This is just my thought progress so don't get offended please.

[Thane]

1 hour ago, FrostyFireMage said:

I've seen mostly negative reactions to her with people calling her a terribly written character and an irredeemable bitch but I'm wondering if that's really the case

Really? Because I see most people just being disappointed with her and wondering why she was even added in the first place. Unlike Camilla, she has the decency to be completely irrelevant and even an optional unit. 

1 hour ago, FrostyFireMage said:

Also keep in mind she's a teenage girl who decided to take up arms and fight for her life

That goes for pretty much the majority of the cast in the series.

1 hour ago, FrostyFireMage said:

and might actually be a deconstruction of sorts

It is not. A decontruction implies attention and thought is put into something; the developers admitted Faye was mostly included to balance out Alm's sausage party, and her behavior never gets called out - unless you count her telling Alm that her family complains about her talking too much about him - and the creepier she stuff is in her base conversations, where Alm doesn't respond (that's not unique to Faye; the base conversations are more like base monologues).

Calling it a deconstruction is putting more thought into Faye than the developers admitted they did themselves.

[FrostyFireMage]

4 minutes ago, Thane said:

Really? Because I see most people just being disappointed with her and wondering why she was even added in the first place. Unlike Camilla, she has the decency to be completely irrelevant and even an optional unit. 

That goes for pretty much the majority of the cast in the series.

It is not. A decontruction implies attention and thought is put into something; the developers admitted Faye was mostly included to balance out Alm's sausage party, and her behavior never gets called out - unless you count her telling Alm that her family complains about her talking too much about him - and the creepier she stuff is in her base conversations, where Alm doesn't respond (that's not unique to Faye; the base conversations are more like base monologues).

Calling it a deconstruction is putting more thought into Faye than the developers admitted they did themselves.

To be fair none of the other villagers have a particularly engaging personality either

[Etrurian emperor]

I don't have a very high opinion of Faye but I certainly don't dislike her. To me Faye comes off as a serial killer and potential Almnapper in the making and I find that hilarious. But I don't think she was ever intended to come off like that so in that regard you could say Faye ''failed'' as a character. 

I have a feeling that Faye's crush was supposed to come off as cute and endearing rather than off putting and creepy. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Thane]

1 minute ago, FrostyFireMage said:

To be fair none of the other villagers have a particularly engaging personality either

That does not make Faye a deconstruction, nor does it change the fact that her personality begins and ends with being into Alm.

[BlizzardWolf95]

I don't mind Faye, but I'm going to hold off on any real judgement until I see what becomes of her in the english version.

Edited April 28, 2017 by BlizzardWolf95

[FrostyFireMage]

I just think it's weird that a lot of people only seem to react negatively if a female character has little to no personality

[Pitchkart]

I'd like to add my two cents to this conversation. 

Faye's problem has never been that she has a thing for Alm (though with Clair in the story, it's pretty redundant). It's that it's the *only* thing she has going for her. 

I understand that with Echoes the developers wanted to appeal to older fans' nostalgia of the series, but I don't have a fondness for a time when the sole defining factor of a woman is how her world revolves around a man in writing.

I'm not saying every woman needs to be STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN WHO NEEDS NO STINKIN MAN, but it would be nice if there was a little more to Faye than being thirsty for Alm.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Pitchkart

[Thane]

5 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

I just think it's weird that a lot of people only seem to react negatively if a female character has little to no personality

What does her gender have anything to do with it? Her personality begins and ends with Alm, she's a new addition they did absolutely nothing with and on top of that she's a pretty unlikeable person. Had she been a guy, the same issues would still apply.

[NekoKnight]

I can agree insofar as being petty and selfish are indeed qualities you might see in love-struck children but

2 hours ago, FrostyFireMage said:

it makes sense for her to develop an insane crush on a unique person and making him her reason to cope with everything that's going on.

Where does this ever come into the story? As far as I can tell, most of the cast can handle the trauma of war just fine without becoming emotionally dependent on another. Anyone who is suggesting deep mental anguish as the cause of Faye's behavior is really reaching.

I think the voicework helps to portray her as unaware of her jerkish behavior but I'm not sympathetic because she is still a jerk.

2 hours ago, FrostyFireMage said:

Was she designed to be an adorable and virtuous special snowflake so people would desperately want to waifu her? 

1 hour ago, Michelaar said:

I think another reason she has received much hate is that it goes against the Ultimate Ship of Alm and Celica.

Can we forever dispel this argument that "People only dislike X because it doesn't agree with their shipping priorities"? Think better of your fellow fans.

[Baldrick]

5 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Can we forever dispel this argument that "People only dislike X because it doesn't agree with their shipping priorities"? Think better of your fellow fans.

Faye was given an Alm fetish to create love triangle with Celica, so they're just following the intentions of the developers.

[Armagon]

Oh boy, another Faye thread. Yay. Time to put in my two cents.

For starters, while I personally like Faye, i get why people don't like Faye, but at the same time, she has gotten a bit too much hate. I don't know about you but i much prefer Faye over characters like Kjelle, Effie, Tharja, Rhajat, Serra, and Peri (though to be fair, everyone is better than Peri). Also note: Kjelle, Effie, and Serra aren't bad, i just prefer Faye over them. Tharja and Rhajat are a different story, but even those two are still leagues better than Peri.

From the little we've seen of the English version (from both the English footage of the game and Heroes), Faye sounds like a genuinely nice person. She gets along with the other villagers, and despite possibly being jealous of Celica, she doesn't hate her, as seen in the English version of the prologue where she tells Gray to stop talking about the rumor regarding Celica's "dark past". And then also (this is from the Japanese version btw) but I read Faye's interaction with Celica if Celica recruits her, and once again, Faye was geunianly nice to her.

Oh and by the way, hearing Faye actually speak makes a difference. Before we were just reading dialogue. Now we actually hear it.

So where does that leave Silque? Well, my answer is this: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ok in all seriousness, i think Faye just has trouble making friends outside her friend group. We do see Faye apologizing to Silque in their A-Support, meaning that she recognizes her mistakes and is willing to make friends outside of her friend group.

Now, where did Faye's crush on Alm really start? We know she had a thing for him before but I think the crush really began when Alm saved her from Slayde. After all, Slayde was gonna execute the kids, starting with Faye, and the only reason it didn't happen was because Alm came in and stopped him. I think that's where Faye's crush with Alm really started.

To be honest, i feel like she's only gotten this much hate because it's a trope we're tired of.  

Anyway, those are my two cents for now. I would continue now but School is a thing.

[Thane]

4 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Faye was given an Alm fetish to create love triangle with Celica, so they're just following the intentions of the developers.

What triangle? You don't even have to recruit her.

[FrostyFireMage]

In any case the developers/translators seem aware that Faye's character is pretty barebones so it's not like they expected her to be a popular character

[Baldrick]

3 minutes ago, Thane said:

What triangle? You don't even have to recruit her.

Are you claiming the developers intended for you to not recruit her?

[Thane]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

Are you claiming the developers intended for you to not recruit her?

I'm saying she's superfluous and, because she's optional, doesn't add anything to the main story as a result. There's no triangle to speak of because there's not some kind of romantic drama going on. 

[ChibiToastExplosion]

31 minutes ago, Thane said:

What does her gender have anything to do with it? Her personality begins and ends with Alm, she's a new addition they did absolutely nothing with and on top of that she's a pretty unlikeable person. Had she been a guy, the same issues would still apply.

Just to play devil's advocate, Navarre, a beloved character in the series, has nothing going for him other than being "honorable" enough not to hurt women and children. It can't be that she's one note, because by that measure about 70% of the characters in the series should be hated.

And even though he won't hurt women and children, Navarre is kind of a shitsucker in the fact that he falls in with banditry time and time again... probably preying on innocents. But that's okay because they are men and not women and children? I happen to quite like Navarre a ton, but if you think about it he's even less likable than Faye because it's implied he actually hurts people. So it can't be that she's unlikable, because Navarre is too and people love the guy. Taken to the extreme: The Narcian fandom.

Is it because she's a new addition? Is that the fuss? Because honestly Conrad doesn't seem to have a ton of depth either but there aren't a bunch of Conrad hate topics. 

It's all about the shade of the lens we choose to look through, and it seems that most people have decided what shade they want to see Faye through before giving her a chance. I'm waiting to pass judgment on her English localization.

[Thane]

Just now, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Just to play devil's advocate, Navarre, a beloved character in the series, has nothing going for him other than being "honorable" enough not to hurt women and children. It can't be that she's one note, because by that measure about 70% of the characters in the series should be hated.

And even though he won't hurt women and children, Navarre is kind of a shitsucker in the fact that he falls in with banditry time and time again... probably preying on innocents. But that's okay because they are men and not women and children? I happen to quite like Navarre a ton, but if you think about it he's even less likable than Faye because it's implied he actually hurts people. So it can't be that she's unlikable, because Navarre is too and people love the guy. Taken to the extreme: The Narcian fandom.

We can cherry pick examples all day long. People hate Silas for being a creep in Elise and Camilla's supports, and the guy is allegedly super nice.

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Is it because she's a new addition? Is that the fuss? Because honestly Conrad doesn't seem to have a ton of depth either but there aren't a bunch of Conrad hate topics. 

She's a new addition who does nothing other than to pine for Alm, whereas Conrad at least adds to the main plot and comes across as his own character. There's a world of difference between the two, even if I don't care about Conrad.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, Thane said:

We can cherry pick examples all day long.

Yes, yes we can. Is there a particular reason we are so focused on Faye, then?

And if being a central part of the story is important for characters, then I hope you like the lords and pretty much only the lords in this series. SoV is the only game where non-lords interact with the story heavily outside of their joining chapter, with a few notable exceptions.

[Thane]

Just now, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Yes, yes we can. Is there a particular reason we are so focused on Faye, then?

Because this is a thread dedicated to her, and treating her as some kind of deconstruction of the trope is giving her a lot more credit than she deserves.

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

And if being a central part of the story is important for characters, then I hope you like the lords and pretty much only the lords in this series. SoV is the only game where non-lords interact with the story heavily outside of their joining chapter, with a few notable exceptions.

You're ignoring the other half of what I said: Conrad feels like his own character, Faye is an accessory to Alm.

[Baldrick]

1 minute ago, Thane said:

here's not some kind of romantic drama going on. 

" I also wanted to add some uncertainty to otherwise predictable elements. In this case, she is a loving childhood friend with Alm, even though Alm himself shares his special (and mutual) connection to Celica."

The developers disagree with your interpretation.

 

[Tryhard]

57 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

I just think it's weird that a lot of people only seem to react negatively if a female character has little to no personality

I'd say that it is the opposite, considering Marisa and Mia are somewhat popular and are about as interesting as dry toast.

Probably more that there is a hint of a less-than-stellar or negative personality even if there is not much, which while I find there should be more of it considering I do like characters like Shinon, she doesn't exactly thrill me either.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Tryhard

[Thane]

Just now, Baldrick said:

The developers disagree with your interpretation.

It's not much of an interpretation if there's literally nothing there. How can there be any form of uncertainty when the game beats you over the head with Alm and Celica's relationship while Faye is, again, an optional character who says nothing?

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, Thane said:

You're ignoring the other half of what I said: Conrad feels like his own character, Faye is an accessory to Alm.

On the other half of the coin, it can be said that Conrad devalues the original story, not adding to it,

Spoiler

in that all of the Zofian Royalty was to be dead sans Celica.

And, so? A lot of people in real life are just accessories to whatever fandom/religion/politics they belong to. I've met people like Faye, and they aren't my favorite people. But they do exist, and the refuse to grow up. It's a bad character trait to be sure, but it's a real one.