MaskedAmpharos Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, dragonlordsd said: Did not count death blow, which isn't super common (a little less than half) Although, in fairness, another quarter will run life or death, so it does even out. Who the hell runs LD on Reinhardt As the proud owner of a +Atk Reinhardt, I'm going to enjoy my free wins while this lasts :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruruo Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Reinhardt also can be baited with Reinhardt :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erchamion Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ArCAWnite said: 4 words: Hide contents Fury Hide contents Desperation Hide contents Nino And then nino gets destroyed by the second and/or third unit on the enemy team due to their dancer @komasa except that reinhardt gets one shot by other reinhardts even with +res and a +6 res boost Edited May 12, 2017 by Erchamion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Erchamion said: And then nino gets destroyed by the second and/or third unit on the enemy due to their dancer This is why we run double draw back + Swap/Reposition! #BackUpsOnBackUps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erchamion Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ArCAWnite said: This is why we run double draw back + Swap/Reposition! Indeed, I also run reposition shenaningans to escape that scenario xD, however I have found situations where it is not possible to escape, depending on map layout and enemy team comp (particularly if they are horse emblem teams with multiple cav mages), such as with reinhardt first then a second cav mage right behind and a dancer behind the second mage (happens quite often if the defense team has draw back). Edited May 12, 2017 by Erchamion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Geso Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I just use Narcian to beat him. He takes like negative damage against non-DB variants and outside of meme Horse Emblem teams the most I've seen him take is 1. I figure any green with some kind of WT boost (Triangle Adept, Emerald Axe) can take him on decently well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, YouSquiddinMe said: I just use Narcian to beat him. *Looks at post* *Looks at member title* *Looks back at post* Titania is also very good at fighting Reinhardt as she is basically a somewhat faster Narcian on a horse lol. So I'd say the same thing, weapon advantage + Adept moves are a pretty universal counter to Reinfart Edited May 12, 2017 by ArCAWnite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 If my -Res Spring Camilla can deal with him, the rest of the greenies out there have no excuse (except maybe Bartre). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, eclipse said: If my -Res Spring Camilla can deal with him, the rest of the greenies out there have no excuse (except maybe Bartre). Frederick, Gunter, Cherche, L&D Minerva, and Barst die to the traditional Reinhardt, but Bartre actually lives lol. Many of the Greens that do survive still take massive damage though, which could potentially cause problems down the line in an Arena battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Frederick, Gunter, Cherche, L&D Minerva, and Barst die to the traditional Reinhardt, but Bartre actually lives lol. Many of the Greens that do survive still take massive damage though, which could potentially cause problems down the line in an Arena battle. Triangle Adept saves lives. So does running Fortify Res (which is. . .on my Camilla). Otherwise, I'm not sure if my Camilla would survive. -Res = 16 Res. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_antithesis Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Player phase~"I'll do my best!" Suddenly, Rindhart isn't so OP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonlordsd Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Elieson said: If you're assuming +Res natures for targets. then we're assuming +Atk nature for ReinhardtWithout a Hone Cavalry bonus, yes you're right With an easy to achieve Hone Cavalry bonus, add 12 damage to all blue encounters. Everything that matters (even with +Res and Fury) dies to Reinhardt. The requirements here aren't high; Ursula's a free unit to rip Death Blow 3 from. Shove that on Reinhardt and run 4* Gunter on your team for free Hone and it's unlikely that your opponents are running +Res units, or units with that many Res-boosting skills (Fortify Cavalry or something like that perhaps). When you obliterate 75% of the meta with a single buff, and hard lose to 10% of it (green mage girls) then there's a super easy counter to a very common threat. Remember Takumi before SI? Rein is the new Takumi. Rein's incredibly easy to support but not immortal by any means. Late to reply to this, I was looking at neutral or +res, just as a counter point to always recommending -res. i do think your analysis is absolutely right as usual. Reinhardt definitely is the new Takumi. The suggestion I was trying (possibly failing) to make was that given his near ubiquity along with several other glass canon units might lend value to a more survival oriented approach, as Reinhardt is so very fragile to most common builds. (But not, generally, himself) side note: cavalry teams are surprisingly rare, and the cpu rarely uses them well. Anecdotally, how have most people found their performance? Edited May 12, 2017 by dragonlordsd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silith13 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Reinhardt Domination IS the meta. Also Felicia ftw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Its ridiculously unbelievable that you can literally slap 4 Free unit Together to make the so called "Horse Emblem" and its legitimately one of, if not the most powerful build in the game right now. 3 Movement with Super nuke offense, potential for ridiculous tankiness, and insanely effective reposition is ridiculous. I've been having habit of running multiple horses in a general squad laterly since 3 mov Reposition is that good Gunter's such a broken unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyCheez3K Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I won't join in into this discussion too much, as I would probably only get angry at the unit some more. There is no denying that you can easily beat Reiny with some counters, but I find him (and Olwen as well for that matter) just poorly designed. I, personally, would have been against him at the drawing board; One of the best nukers, with the biggest reach, irelevant weakness in Speed (Rein failed if he got attacked first, and is mostly an AI thing), and a unit type with already questionable buffing capabilities (#HorseEmblem)? I don't see how it was a good idea. I can tolerate him as long as the game does not become PvP, but boy, does he make things bland sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okigen Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, JSND said: Its ridiculously unbelievable that you can literally slap 4 Free unit Together to make the so called "Horse Emblem" and its legitimately one of, if not the most powerful build in the game right now. 3 Movement with Super nuke offense, potential for ridiculous tankiness, and insanely effective reposition is ridiculous. I've been having habit of running multiple horses in a general squad laterly since 3 mov Reposition is that good Gunter's such a broken unit My question is, if Horse Emblem is that broken, why I still don't see them in the arena? Seriously this is something that bothers me so much since people started to talk about this thing with Rein, Celicia etc. So far I can still count my encounters with a properly inherited Horse Emblem team on one hand, while I literally meet a flier emblem/armour emblem once every few matches. Anyway, back to the Reinhardt topic. My Soren is baiting a highly merged Rein with Death Blow and hone cavalry buff all the time and stilll doing fine, and he's literally a Nino with 3 more HP. So .... as long as you have a green with hp seal/Fury/rally res then Rein shouldnt be that bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute Chao Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Okigen said: My question is, if Horse Emblem is that broken, why I still don't see them in the arena? Seriously this is something that bothers me so much since people started to talk about this thing with Rein, Celicia etc. So far I can still count my encounters with a properly inherited Horse Emblem team on one hand, while I literally meet a flier emblem/armour emblem once every few matches. Anyway, back to the Reinhardt topic. My Soren is baiting a highly merged Rein with Death Blow and hone cavalry buff all the time and stilll doing fine, and he's literally a Nino with 3 more HP. So .... as long as you have a green with hp seal/Fury/rally res then Rein shouldnt be that bad? I think Horse Emblem is more for the player's side, since on defence, the AI doesn't know how to use it properly and it can often be too easily baited. That's what I've read. I suck at teams with buffs, currently, and tend to play them as badly as the AI (almost). I'll learn to use them eventually ^.^'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, Okigen said: Anyway, back to the Reinhardt topic. My Soren is baiting a highly merged Rein with Death Blow and hone cavalry buff all the time and stilll doing fine, and he's literally a Nino with 3 more HP. So .... as long as you have a green with hp seal/Fury/rally res then Rein shouldnt be that bad? Yes, literally any Green mage will win unless they get blown up by Iceberg or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whistle Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 horse emblem team got bait so easily. Most of the win on my horse emblem team prolly ceom from resign from my surprise atk of my unit and such . AI just too dumb man XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Okigen said: My question is, if Horse Emblem is that broken, why I still don't see them in the arena? Seriously this is something that bothers me so much since people started to talk about this thing with Rein, Celicia etc. So far I can still count my encounters with a properly inherited Horse Emblem team on one hand, while I literally meet a flier emblem/armour emblem once every few matches. Anyway, back to the Reinhardt topic. My Soren is baiting a highly merged Rein with Death Blow and hone cavalry buff all the time and stilll doing fine, and he's literally a Nino with 3 more HP. So .... as long as you have a green with hp seal/Fury/rally res then Rein shouldnt be that bad? Horse Emblem has a really low BST. As long as you run infantry and armors you wont see full horse emblem teams unless they are all like +5 or higher. In which case, good luck. At least, for me me, with Hector, Ryoma +1, Sharena, and Anna, I haven't seen a single full horse emblem team. Before I got Hector or Ryoma, I would see horse emblem once in a while. Fliers have a little more BST than horses and armors have the most of everyone. That's why you see them more often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hawk King said: Horse Emblem has a really low BST. As long as you run infantry and armors you wont see full horse emblem teams unless they are all like +5 or higher. In which case, good luck. At least, for me me, with Hector, Ryoma +1, Sharena, and Anna, I haven't seen a single full horse emblem team. Before I got Hector or Ryoma, I would see horse emblem once in a while. Fliers have a little more BST than horses and armors have the most of everyone. That's why you see them more often. BST has been equalized in the Arena now; its effect on Arena score is very minimal, if it has effect at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Hawk King said: Horse Emblem has a really low BST. As long as you run infantry and armors you wont see full horse emblem teams unless they are all like +5 or higher. In which case, good luck. At least, for me me, with Hector, Ryoma +1, Sharena, and Anna, I haven't seen a single full horse emblem team. Before I got Hector or Ryoma, I would see horse emblem once in a while. Fliers have a little more BST than horses and armors have the most of everyone. That's why you see them more often. I don't think the arena has really worked that way since the previous update to take skills into account and increase points scored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: BST has been equalized in the Arena now; its effect on Arena score is very minimal, if it has effect at all. 1 minute ago, Othin said: I don't think the arena has really worked that way since the previous update to take skills into account and increase points scored. It definitely still works that way. Swapping a fully inherited Nino for a fully inherited Hector increased my average points per battle by 6-8. What they changed was the stat boost from Fury (and the +3's) no longer affects a characters BST. It now factors the stats without weapons and skills involved. So now Fury 3 isn't an absolute must for your whole team, and brave weapons are actually usable without killing your BST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hawk King said: It definitely still works that way. Swapping a fully inherited Nino for a fully inherited Hector increased my average points per battle by 6-8. What they changed was the stat boost from Fury (and the +3's) no longer affects a characters BST. It now factors the stats without weapons and skills involved. So now Fury 3 isn't an absolute must for your whole team, and brave weapons are actually usable without killing your BST. What are the exact skills on those characters? If Hector has more valuable skills, that could be relevant. For example, Armads is worth 400 SP while Gronblade+ (and any other top-level spells Nino can access) are only 300 SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushen Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) The best counter is Hector. If you don't have Hector, the easiest thing you can do is put a healer/mage in with a physical green unit. It's ridiculously easy to lure a horse mage in to your team and maintain control over the map. I'd also like to note that horse emblems do just fine in Arena. Yea, you're not going to get first place but I can get up to 4,700 points every week and I only lose once every 14ish games (EZ mode). Xander/Eldigan, Priscilla, Reinhardt, Cecilia/Olwen/Spring-Xander The reason you're probably not seeing a lot of horse emblems is because there wasn't really a replacement for Eldigan. With Xander, I expect to see a lot more. Also, people need to use horse healers more. That being said, I only see a Reinhardt once every 7ish games. Not sure why you're seeing so many. Edited May 13, 2017 by Lushen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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