What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Alastor15243]

38 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah. The line in Mystery starts like this:

Chainy:
Ah…
When the Divine Dragons fought the Earth Dragons they over-exhausted their dragonstones, and so practically became extinct.
Aside from Narga, only Gato, me and the just born Chiki survived.
However, after the war we discarded our dragonstones, so we could no longer become dragons again.

In New Mystery, however:

Xane:
Oh, yeah... but y'see, after the war, Gotoh and I threw away our dragon stones. So, I can never be a dragon again.

It completely removes the first two lines. So, basically a retcon.

However, there are other places in the script that refers to Tiki being just born that are still there. Like in Chapter 12:

Xane:
Naga took pity on you humans, with no way of protecting yourselves, so she created it from one of her fangs. Then, together with the shield, she sealed it in the fane, and had the remainin' dragon houses watch over humanity. She put the newly born Tiki to sleep and thus ended her 5,000-year life. 'Cause of all this, Gotoh's tryin' his best to carry out Naga's order.

---

A word of advice, when you reach New Mystery in your LP thread, do a side-by-side comparison with the original script. Actually, go ahead and start with Shadow Dragon's new and old scripts. There are differences, small though at times significant. If you're going to be reviewing the story, it's best if you have the complete picture, since you'd also have to evaluate the changes they've done.

Duly noted.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Troykv said:

As far as I'm aware, the only person that had previously knowledge of the Archanea games lore among the writers was Maeda himself (because he was the one that wrote the Scenario of the remakes)... I personally believe consistency with old lore was very low in their priorities considering this game suffer from being a very last game; this game didn't want to be subject to a particular lore; the game biggest priority was being and homage to everything Fire Emblem, and I think the only reason why Plegia and Ylisse are Archanea because of these homages, that just happens to be the continent with the most amount of iconic stuff in the franchise, specially from the perspective of japanese... They compromised many things of the world (and probably also a good reason why they decided to make such a big jump in time) for the sake of well... to put it bluntly... fanservice, but isn't just the sexual one that one only really applies to Tiki in this case considering what was previously mentioned; many things are... weird, for the sake of fanservice.

Though, something particularly funny about it, while it's clear Ylisse ended up being a mess overall, Valm actually looks like something that Valentia could eventually turn up after two thousand years; considering how few empires actually managed to stay for that long, and how we have some hints of some asian-like elements in Valentia since the original Gaiden.

There's that big wyvern valley in the place where Mila's temple is meant to be though (when Gaiden never had any wyverns at all). And a massive tree in the middle of things. And Owen's paralogue not taking place in a desert. And Duma's corpse being in a volcano on the other side of the map from where he died. Or hell the Yen'Fey volcano being miles away from the Alm fighting loads of zombie dragons volcano (even though that's the lead up to Rigel which is precisely where the party goes after fighting Yen'Fey so they could have kept things consistent there). No, I don't think they gave any care whatsoever about Gaiden's continuity when they made Valm. Sure you can say magic and volcanic activity can explain these inconsistencies, but the point is no attempt was made to explain them. They just didn't care about anything but the basic shape of the continent (and where Rigel is) when designing Valm. They didn't even give Whalhart falchion, even though that would have fitted so well into the foil theme him and Chrom had going on. They've retconned a few things in Shadows of Valentia to makes things make more sense, like the tree and Rudolf's design, but their original mapping of Valentia was just as shoddy as Archanea.  In fact, I'm of the personal opinion that Valentia was never even meant to be a continent rivaling Archanea.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Ottservia]

Y’know on the topic of Kouhei Maeda, I honestly feel they should bring him back for the next FE game and have someone else take over heroes. Or at the very least get Kusakihara out of the director’s chair. I don’t think that man is a good game director. Regardless about how you feel about SoV and 3H as stories, I honestly don’t think they’re all that good of games. Honestly both games are just an excercise in tedium for me. I like some things they do like combat arts and stuff but overall I find both games to be a slog to play through

[Acacia Sgt]

Maybe that's the reason they chose the two thousand year skip. Since most of those things can be explained by simple passage of time. Two thousand years is enough time to introduce wyvern/flying-dragons to Valentia/Valm, for the Mila Tree to grow, for the Sage's Hamlet to have relocated, for the desert to be gone, for the Demon's Ingle to have grown (my country has a volcano that is not even a hundred years old, what is that compared to two thousand years?), etc.

[Jotari]

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Maybe that's the reason they chose the two thousand year skip. Since most of those things can be explained by simple passage of time. Two thousand years is enough time to introduce wyvern/flying-dragons to Valentia/Valm, for the Mila Tree to grow, for the Sage's Hamlet to have relocated, for the desert to be gone, for the Demon's Ingle to have grown (my country has a volcano that is not even a hundred years old, what is that compared to two thousand years?), etc.

I refer you to this part.

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There's that big wyvern valley in the place where Mila's temple is meant to be though (when Gaiden never had any wyverns at all). And a massive tree in the middle of things. And Owen's paralogue not taking place in a desert. And Duma's corpse being in a volcano on the other side of the map from where he died. Or hell the Yen'Fey volcano being miles away from the Alm fighting loads of zombie dragons volcano (even though that's the lead up to Rigel which is precisely where the party goes after fighting Yen'Fey so they could have kept things consistent there). No, I don't think they gave any care whatsoever about Gaiden's continuity when they made Valm. Sure you can say magic and volcanic activity can explain these inconsistencies, but the point is no attempt was made to explain them. They just didn't care about anything but the basic shape of the continent (and where Rigel is) when designing Valm. They didn't even give Whalhart falchion, even though that would have fitted so well into the foil theme him and Chrom had going on. They've retconned a few things in Shadows of Valentia to makes things make more sense, like the tree and Rudolf's design, but their original mapping of Valentia was just as shoddy as Archanea.  In fact, I'm of the personal opinion that Valentia was never even meant to be a continent rivaling Archanea.

You can explain anything by saying it's a super long time (and magic). The point is that they didn't care to unify things at all. Being technically possible doesn't mean it makes sense. Why does Tiki even live in Valm and not her ancestral home? Because that's the point in the story at which they wanted to introduce her. Sure there's some theoretical reason she could have decided to move and live in a tree, but the game makes no attempt to explain it because the only reason she's there is because that's the point in the story they wanted to introduce her.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Maybe that's the reason they chose the two thousand year skip. Since most of those things can be explained by simple passage of time. Two thousand years is enough time to introduce wyvern/flying-dragons to Valentia/Valm, for the Mila Tree to grow, for the Sage's Hamlet to have relocated, for the desert to be gone, for the Demon's Ingle to have grown (my country has a volcano that is not even a hundred years old, what is that compared to two thousand years?), etc.

Not the Fire Emblem, though. You can't invert what the thing does without a word of explanation and leave it to the passage of time like that.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You can explain anything by saying it's a super long time (and magic). The point is that they didn't care to unify things at all. Being technically possible doesn't mean it makes sense.

How much blatant the explanation has to be, though?

For example, the Demon's Ingle is just outright called Duma's Remains in Japan. That should be enough to tell you what happened. Or there needs to be a lengthy talk about how Duma's body was relocated to Zofia Castle (since the Demon's Ingle is roughly where Zofia castle once was), but oops, no one predicted it would cause a volcano to grow? Besides, it's a volcano. It wasn't there two thousand years ago, now it's there. What else is it needed? To be told Zofia was atop a magma chamber? On a tectonic boudary?

6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Not the Fire Emblem, though. You can't invert what the thing does without a word of explanation and leave it to the passage of time like that.

I think this one is a case of being told little, rather than none. They do alude that something went down when Naga blood bonded with the First Exalt, since we are told the Kingsfang's blade morphed into a different shape. The implication is that the Shield also got affected, though you're right. We're not directly told.

[Alastor15243]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I think this one is a case of being told little, rather than none. They do alude that something went down when Naga blood bonded with the First Exalt, since we are told the Kingsfang's blade morphed into a different shape. The implication is that the Shield also got affected, though you're right. We're not directly told.

Wait, that's the explanation for the Falchion's shape? But Owain and Lucina's support chain says it's because the hilt and other non-fang-blade parts are reforged and replaced over the years.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Wait, that's the explanation for the Falchion's shape? But Owain and Lucina's support say it's because the hilt and other non-fang-blade parts are reforged and replaced over the years.

Yes, the hilt and non-blade parts. The blade itself is a different story. Even then, it might not be that different.

It's hard to say since the sword itself has different designs across the series' history. I'm partial to this design:

Turning into this one:

Just imagine you remove the golden guard and hilt and the red orb/dragonstone, which is filling up a hole. Only discrepancy is the short black band becoming a long gold one. Other than that...

[Ottservia]

45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You can explain anything by saying it's a super long time (and magic). The point is that they didn't care to unify things at all. Being technically possible doesn't mean it makes sense.

I’mma agree with @Acacia Sgt on this one. How much explanation do you really need? Cause anymore explanation besides what’s given is just gonna bog the story down with unnecessary exposition. I mean I get being mad about it not really being mentioned in supplementary material like DLC or an artbook because that’s what that stuff is for but overall you don’t really need it to be mentioned in the story in that much detail. Maybe a passing mention here or there but you don’t need a straight up info dump to explain every little thing especially if it’s not important to the story being told.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Ottservia

[Jotari]

47 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

How much blatant the explanation has to be, though?

For example, the Demon's Ingle is just outright called Duma's Remains in Japan. That should be enough to tell you what happened. Or there needs to be a lengthy talk about how Duma's body was relocated to Zofia Castle (since the Demon's Ingle is roughly where Zofia castle once was), but oops, no one predicted it would cause a volcano to grow? Besides, it's a volcano. It wasn't there two thousand years ago, now it's there. What else is it needed? To be told Zofia was atop a magma chamber? On a tectonic boudary?

I think this one is a case of being told little, rather than none. They do alude that something went down when Naga blood bonded with the First Exalt, since we are told the Kingsfang's blade morphed into a different shape. The implication is that the Shield also got affected, though you're right. We're not directly told.

You're looking at things backwards. I suggest things be written in such a way that explanation isn't necessary. Like putting Wyvern valley in Macedonia. Or having the Demon's Ingle actually be located in the place where Duma died. These are trivially simple things to do, especially the Wyvern valley one as it's disconnected from the plot, but they didn't because they just blatantly didn't care. Aside from a castle (which is one of the least permanent landmarks you can have) and maybe the ruins of Duma's Tower in Brady's paralogue, there is zero similarity between Gaiden and Awakening. Literally zero. No Mila's Temple ruins. No giant continent spanning damn. No eastern desert. No Witch Mountain. No Falchion. No Mila statues. It's not that they under explained things, it's that they didn't care about consistency at all. If we weren't literally shown the world map you'd never even know Valm is meant to be Valentia. All there'd be is a random reference to Mila. Because Valm wasn't designed to actually be Valentia. It was designed to reference Gaiden for fan service alone. They put about as much effort into it as they did bringing back the Deadlords and Holy Weapons. And before you say it, no, I don't think these are nitpicks. I think this is basic expectation that if you're going to bring something back, it needs to be in some way recognizable as the thing it was before. Valm isn't. It doesn't look like Valentia at all. Any similar aspects came from the remake patching the holes Awakening made.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You're looking at things backwards. I suggest things be written in such a way that explanation isn't necessary. Like putting Wyvern valley in Macedonia. Or having the Demon's Ingle actually be located in the place where Duma died. These are trivially simple things to do, especially the Wyvern valley one as it's disconnected from the plot, but they didn't because they just blatantly didn't care. Aside from a castle (which is one of the least permanent landmarks you can have) and maybe the ruins of Duma's Tower in Brady's paralogue, there is zero similarity between Gaiden and Awakening. Literally zero. No Mila's Temple ruins. No giant continent spanning damn. No eastern desert. No Witch Mountain. No Falchion. No Mila statues. It's not that they under explained things, it's that they didn't care about consistency at all. If we weren't literally shown the world map you'd never even know Valm is meant to be Valentia. All there'd be is a random reference to Mila. Because Valm wasn't designed to actually be Valentia. It was designed to reference Gaiden for fan service alone. They put about as much effort into it as they did bringing back the Deadlords and Holy Weapons. And before you say it, no, I don't think these are nitpicks. I think this is basic expectation that if you're going to bring something back, it needs to be in some way recognizable as the thing it was before.

On the contrary. Explanations aren't needed for a few of those things. Or more like, there is not much need to tell, when they show us instead. The wyvern valley in Valm shows me the animals became common in the two thousand years span. Did they migrated? Did someone brought a few wyverns over? We don't know that, true, but that's not a sign they wanted to disconnect Valm with Valentia or that they didn't care.

For the Demon's Ingle, it's something that can go either way, actually. You can easily say "Duma's body was moved" as "Duma's body wasn't moved". Awakening opted for the former. We're not told why, but at least we were shown that's what happened.

Hmm, that's not true. Duma Gate is still there, it's the place of Inigo's paralogue. We don't really know if the desert is still or not there, actually. No chapter map takes place there. Closest locations are the Wyvern Valley and the relocated Sage's Hamlet, but both would be at the edges. The Hamlet is in a peninsula that's not there in the Valentia map, so it wouldn't be part of the general area of the desert anyway. For other areas it ultimately boils down to... are they important to the plot? Mostly not. The game isn't obliged to show us every single place that was there in Gaiden. If by Witch mountain you mean the Fear Mountain Range, it's like I said. Just not a place for plot to happen, whether mandatory or paralogue.

The fate of the Valentian Falchion is a good point to bring up. However, it's far from your "literally zero" claim. For the Mila statues, they were usually placed in shrines and temples in places mostly not visit-able in Awakening. Except for the ones in Duma's Tower, which as you say, is the location of Brady's paralogue. Which boils down to just what we're shown. No statue in sight, the place is in ruins. Statue likely didn't make it or was taken away from there. What more do we need?

You're right up to a point. Valm wasn't designed to be Valentia. It was designed to be Valentia in the far future.

[Ottservia]

I’m willing to bet Grima’s original rise being the cause for a lot of the land and buildings not being what it used to. I mean we have no clue how long he rampaged or what that rampaged entailed. If nothing else, it at least explains why the current kingdoms are the way they are. In the face of such a calamity civilization will inevitably break down and fall. Duma tower not existing can be explained that way as well or can be explained in the way of other natural disasters

[Acacia Sgt]

That would be a likely explanation. At the very least, there's a clear indication something happened on a likely planetary scale. Sea levels dropped, and most of what became Plegia pretty much went through desertification.

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

On the contrary. Explanations aren't needed for a few of those things. Or more like, there is not much need to tell, when they show us instead. The wyvern valley in Valm shows me the animals became common in the two thousand years span. Did they migrated? Did someone brought a few wyverns over? We don't know that, true, but that's not a sign they wanted to disconnect Valm with Valentia or that they didn't care.

For the Demon's Ingle, it's something that can go either way, actually. You can easily say "Duma's body was moved" as "Duma's body wasn't moved". Awakening opted for the former. We're not told why, but at least we were shown that's what happened.

Hmm, that's not true. Duma Gate is still there, it's the place of Inigo's paralogue. We don't really know if the desert is still or not there, actually. No chapter map takes place there. Closest locations are the Wyvern Valley and the relocated Sage's Hamlet, but both would be at the edges. The Hamlet is in a peninsula that's not there in the Valentia map, so it wouldn't be part of the general area of the desert anyway. For other areas it ultimately boils down to... are they important to the plot? Mostly not. The game isn't obliged to show us every single place that was there in Gaiden. If by Witch mountain you mean the Fear Mountain Range, it's like I said. Just not a place for plot to happen, whether mandatory or paralogue.

The fate of the Valentian Falchion is a good point to bring up. However, it's far from your "literally zero" claim. For the Mila statues, they were usually placed in shrines and temples in places mostly not visit-able in Awakening. Except for the ones in Duma's Tower, which as you say, is the location of Brady's paralogue. Which boils down to just what we're shown. No statue in sight, the place is in ruins. Statue likely didn't make it or was taken away from there. What more do we need?

You're right up to a point. Valm wasn't designed to be Valentia. It was designed to be Valentia in the far future.

So I see my point went completely over your head. Let me try again. It's not that explanations don't exist. It's not even that they didn't provide expalanations. It's the fact that they didn't care in the slightest to make these things resemble each other. Valm is not Valentia in the far future. It's pure fan service of "Hey look, you can play on Gaiden's continent" without actually going any deeper than that surface level. You would never suspect that it is if this land was viewed without a world map context, and if you did theorize it it would be a crazy tin foil hat fringe theory. They take nothing, and anything they do take is done in the laziest way possible without any consideration. Though touche on the Duma Gate, there is that, another fortress that would be the least likely thing to be around two thousand years later. Imagine if Three Houses was touted as a distant sequel to Radiant Dawn. There's no laguz the goddess is different and the landscape is unrecognizable. All those things could be explained though. We could come up with reasons why Ashunera became Sothis or something and assume a laguz genocide happened. That doesn't mean Three Houses or Tellius would in any way enhanced by being the same place. It'd just be labelling it the same place for fan service.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

So I see my point went completely over your head. Let me try again. It's not that explanations don't exist. It's not even that they didn't provide expalanations. It's the fact that they didn't care in the slightest to make these things resemble each other. Valm is not Valentia in the far future. It's pure fan service of "Hey look, you can play on Gaiden's continent" without actually going any deeper than that surface level. You would never suspect that it is if this land was viewed without a world map context, and if you did theorize it it would be a crazy tin foil hat fringe theory. They take nothing, and anything they do take is done in the laziest way possible without any consideration. Though touche on the Duma Gate, there is that, another fortress that would be the least likely thing to be around two thousand years later.

If Valm was Valentia in a hundred years or perhaps even as far a thousand, you may have a point. However, the span of two thousand years means they can't really have Valentia remain largely static. You claim they didn't care, I'd say that by the very scenario they thought up they couldn't. Valm is Valentia in the far future. How much of Europe today is recognizable to the Europe of the Roman times? It's also a gap of two thousands years.

Nah, wouldn't be foil hat fringe. We're told Valm is to the west of Ylisse. We know Ylisse is future Archanea. Since Gaiden we knew Valentia was west of Archanea. Simple logic would tell you Valm was Valentia, after a name change like the Archanea to Ylisse transition. As for the little connections, it's basically the same thing as Ylisse is to Archanea. How much of the old Archanea is still there? How much of the new stuff has little resemblance with each other, as you claim Valm is? You say it's lazy, but perhaps it's simply you the one who isn't seeing what is there.

What's so mind-boggling of Duma Gate being there? The Cairo pyramids are still here on Earth after even longer, so what's the problem?

Edited June 12, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If Valm was Valentia in a hundred years or perhaps even as far a thousand, you may have a point. However, the span of two thousand years means they can't really have Valentia remain largely static. You claim they didn't care, I'd say that by the very scenario they thought up they couldn't. Valm is Valentia in the far future. How much of Europe today is recognizable to the Europe of the Roman times? It's also a gap of two thousands years.

 

A lot actually. Especially if you go to Rome itself. The alps are still in the same place at the very least.

37 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

Nah, wouldn't be foil hat fringe. We're told Valm is to the west of Ylisse. We know Ylisse is future Archanea. Since Gaiden we knew Valentia was west of Archanea. Simple logic would tell you Valm was Valentia, after a name change like the Archanea to Ylisse transition. As for the little connections, it's basically the same thing as Ylisse is to Archanea. How much of the old Archanea is still there? How much of the new stuff has little resemblance with each other, as you claim Valm is? You say it's lazy, but perhaps it's simply you the one who isn't seeing what is there.

 

I know...that's why I said when you take the world map stuff out. And in regards to Ylisse, at least they did have the Fire Emblem there. I mean they completely inverted it's function, but it still existed with the whole five stones thing. And the Dragons Table is still around. That's something, plot related. And of course Falchion and Marth being a central figure. But yes, a lot of these issues I have with Valm I have with Ylisse too (where are all the manaketes at!? Was there an utter genocide of them afterwards. Did Tiki and Gotoh allow that to happen? Speaking of which, where is Gotoh!? Oh wait, Bantu is apparently still around based on Nowi flavor text so I guess these giant transforming lizards with massive importance are in abundance, we just never see any of them because they're just off screen). Awakening made their new setting a future version of an old setting for the sake of fan service, not because it makes sense. Take my Tellius Three Houses example again. If they told us Three Houses was Tellius two thousand years in the future would that make sense? It'd be possible, but would it make sense? That's the difference here. Things being possible and things making sense. Wyvern valley being where it is is possible. But Wyvern valley actually being in the location known for wyverns in the previous game, that's something that makes sense. It's a logical flow of continuity. Do you see what I mean?

37 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

What's so mind-boggling of Duma Gate being there? The Cairo pyramids are still here on Earth after even longer, so what's the problem?

Nothing, it's cool that's there. I just want more.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Jotari said:

A lot actually. Especially if you go to Rome itself. The alps are still in the same place at the very least.

I know...that's why I said when you take the world map stuff out. And in regards to Ylisse, at least they did have the Fire Emblem there. I mean they completely inverted it's function, but it still existed with the whole five stones thing. And the Dragons Table is still around. That's something, plot related. And of course Falchion and Marth being a central figure. But yes, a lot of these issues I have with Valm I have with Ylisse too (where are all the manaketes at!? Was there an utter genocide of them afterwards. Did Tiki and Gotoh allow that to happen? Speaking of which, where is Gotoh!? Oh wait, Bantu is apparently still around based on Nowi flavor text so I guess these giant transforming lizards with massive importance are in abundance, we just never see any of them because they're just off screen). Awakening made their new setting a future version of an old setting for the sake of fan service, not because it makes sense. Take my Tellius Three Houses example again. If they told us Three Houses was Tellius two thousand years in the future would that make sense? It'd be possible, but would it make sense? That's the difference here. Things being possible and things making sense. Wyvern valley being where it is is possible. But Wyvern valley actually being in the location known for wyverns in the previous game, that's something that makes sense. It's a logical flow of continuity. Do you see what I mean?

And as per the Valm map, the mountains ranges are still there. In the region surrounding Rigel/Valm Castle, in the central area of the continent, and on the southern area.

Rome is just but one location of Europe. It's like saying that because Rigel Castle is there that it means a lot is still there, as you said. However, it's far from it. Just like Valentia to Valm. Europe at least kept the same name, but how it is today is a far cry from how it was two thousand years ago.

That's not two sides of the same spectrum. A setting making sense or not is an separate issue altogether from whether or not they want to have the setting connect to another. Doing it for the fan service or not isn't what makes sense or not. It's how they go about with it.

It would make sense or not depending on how they go about it. The thing is, the two thousand year gap gives more freedom to dictate how things go, at the very least. It's just too much time.

I see you're closing yourself off. Yes, there can be sense to having the Wyvern Valley to be in Valm. Because it's a show of time progression, continuity. That in the span of two thousands years animals that were only found in one region of one continent could now be in another, thanks in part that contact between the two continents exist. It's no different from horses being brought to the Americas. Or potatoes being sent to Europe. If it wasn't in Valm, that makes sense too. Since it shows that even in two thousands years, wyvern remain confined to what used to be Medon/Macedon/Meacedon. In this case, Awakening chose the more interesting option, that in the span of two thousand years some animal migration or transplantation happened.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And as per the Valm map, the mountains ranges are still there. In the region surrounding Rigel/Valm Castle, in the central area of the continent, and on the southern area.

Rome is just but one location of Europe. It's like saying that because Rigel Castle is there that it means a lot is still there, as you said. However, it's far from it. Just like Valentia to Valm. Europe at least kept the same name, but how it is today is a far cry from how it was two thousand years ago.

That's not two sides of the same spectrum. A setting making sense or not is an separate issue altogether from whether or not they want to have the setting connect to another. Doing it for the fan service or not isn't what makes sense or not. It's how they go about with it.

It would make sense or not depending on how they go about it. The thing is, the two thousand year gap gives more freedom to dictate how things go, at the very least. It's just too much time.

I see you're closing yourself off. Yes, there can be sense to having the Wyvern Valley to be in Valm. Because it's a show of time progression, continuity. That in the span of two thousands years animals that were only found in one region of one continent could now be in another, thanks in part that contact between the two continents exist. It's no different from horses being brought to the Americas. Or potatoes being sent to Europe. If it wasn't in Valm, that makes sense too. Since it shows that even in two thousands years, wyvern remain confined to what used to be Medon/Macedon/Meacedon. In this case, Awakening chose the more interesting option, that in the span of two thousand years some animal migration or transplantation happened.

It doesn't show that though. If that were the intention and it made some world building and showed migration patterns and change then that would be cool. But wyvern valley being in Valm services, literally, zero purpose. It's just there. If that map was located in a different part of the world then it wouldn't change anything at all about the chapter in which it takes place. If it's meaningful change, then that's cool. But it's not meaningful change. It's just random, because it was done without care. And if what was said above is true then we know this quite well from the fact that only one of the writers was even familiar with the continuity they were using. How about a comparison, if Tiki  reappeared looking like an old man with a beard and used magic instead of transforming into a dragon, would that make sense? It's possible, we know divine manaketes can shape shift, like Xane. And we know they can use magic like Gotoh. And we know Tiki might be inclined to throw away her dragon stone to limit her powers. So it's entirely possible to happen. But if an old mage with a beard shows up after two millennium and people are calling him TIki and literally nothing is done or said to suggest why Tiki is an old mage then I would be demanding an explanation as to how that turn events came to be. It shouldn't be my job to come up with excuses as to why things are unrecognizable. If two thousand years is such a long time for things to be completely unrecognizable, then don't make it the same setting to begin with, because you're not adding anything (I refer back to what if they told us Tellius and Fodlan were the same continent).

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

It doesn't show that though. If that were the intention and it made some world building and showed migration patterns and change then that would be cool. But wyvern valley being in Valm services, literally, zero purpose. It's just there. If that map was located in a different part of the world then it wouldn't change anything at all about the chapter in which it takes place. If it's meaningful change, then that's cool. But it's not meaningful change. It's just random, because it was done without care. And if what was said above is true then we know this quite well from the fact that only one of the writers was even familiar with the continuity they were using.

It does. Just the fact the place exists. It shows us the wyverns expanded their habitat range. That's its purpose. We don't need a detailed account of how it happened for it to do its job. Far from it, actually. Being in Valm gives a sense of explanation of how prevalent they are over there. Just how many wyvern riders does Walhart fielded? How Cherche got hers? It's all there thanks to the Wyvern Valley being there. So it's far from random. It's used to establish world-building for Valm, and how it has changed since the days it used to be called Valentia.

[Jotari]

26 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It does. Just the fact the place exists. It shows us the wyverns expanded their habitat range. That's its purpose. We don't need a detailed account of how it happened for it to do its job. Far from it, actually. Being in Valm gives a sense of explanation of how prevalent they are over there. Just how many wyvern riders does Walhart fielded? How Cherche got hers? It's all there thanks to the Wyvern Valley being there. So it's far from random. It's used to establish world-building for Valm, and how it has changed since the days it used to be called Valentia.

Okay, then show me a reference to the wyvern migration or Macedonian invasion. Like I said, it shouldn't be my job to come up with a backstory to explain things. The reason Valm is in the game is the same reason Ike's descendant is running around. Fan service. There's no explanation as to who Priam is or where he came from, just like there's no explanation as to how Valm got to be the way it is.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

16 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Okay, then show me a reference to the wyvern migration or Macedonian invasion. Like I said, it shouldn't be my job to come up with a backstory to explain things.

Why must one exist? Do we really need to know the why? Is the game obliged to tell us the why?

In any case, one thing I'd like to point is that wyverns also live in the Mamorthod Desert, near Thabes. You fight several in Ch11 of Mystery/NewMystery. No explanation as to how they got there either. Is that also not okay?

Edited June 12, 2020 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Why must one exist? Do we really need to know the why? Is the game obliged to tell us the why?

As much as it would be if Tiki turned up rocking a beard and a Ragnarok tome. If you're satisfied with just being told two places are the same without being shown, then so be it. But I for one would like a bit more cohesion. My earlier reference to Tellius and Fodlan isn't a "depending on how they do it case" it's a what if they literally just said on the box that this was future Tellius and left it at that? Because that's what Valm feels like to me. It doesn't feel like it's Valentia at all. 

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In any case, one thing I'd like to point is that wyverns also live in the Mamorthod Desert, near Thabes. You fight several in Ch11 of Mystery/NewMystery. No explanation as to how they got there either. Is that also not okay?

No, because there hasn't been a contest continuity showing them not existing in that region. The other side of the coin is the Taugel not existing in Marth's game at all. What's with that? Are they all just hiding? Have humans (and dragons) never once interacted with them? Did they migrate to Archanea and then get wiped out by humans? Or did the genocide happen before Marth's time and they've managed to survive as an endangered species for two mellinum? No answers to these questions because the only reason Taugel exist is because laguz were popular in Tellius.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

As much as it would be if Tiki turned up rocking a beard and a Ragnarok tome.

No, because there hasn't been a contest continuity showing them not existing in that region.

Not necessarily, as it's not the same kind of situation.

Ultimately, the game is not a chronicle. For the sort of story it wants to tell, how the wyverns got there isn't as important as to show that are there now, in contrast to two thousand years ago when they weren't. Just like how we're not told how exactly the United Kingdom of Archanea fragmented into Ylisse, Plegia, and Regna Ferox, because that's not the story the game wants to tell. Would it be nice to know? Very. Are we obliged to know? For those things, not necessarily.

 

[Ottservia]

Y’see this is what supplementary materials are for though the artbook gives very little details on that unfortunately.