What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[SoulWeaver]

26 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I was referring to the obnoxious amounts of grinding that you practically have to do to make your units better. To battle, you need orbs. To grind, you need very specific materials because normal grinding will start to get tedious. 

I'm a touch confused here, Harv. Sounds like you're saying you need Orbs because you run out of Stamina Potions, is that right? Just wanted a bit of clarification.

[ping]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

I went into plenty of detail why Ike was also part of the problem in this thread. I appreciated that Ike and Micaiah's actions had negative consequences as it was far more realistic than a simple idealistic good vs evil like all other FE games. This leads to another unpopular opinion, Micaiah's actions are more justified than Ike's. 

Still, the war in PoR was a war of aggression from Daein's part, and all of Crimea's actions were a reaction to that. It's understandable that many people in Daein dislike Ike, but certainly not justified. It's not morally ambiguous to defend yourself.

(btw, when Micaiah claims that "all [their] cities and towns had been reduced to ruins", I find that hard to believe when Nevassa is portrayed pretty much unscarred in RD, as far as architecture goes. Not to mention that Daein's army wasn't exactly working hard to minimize damage to their own country, if the events in Talrega are anything to go by.

[Icelerate]

1 hour ago, ping said:

Still, the war in PoR was a war of aggression from Daein's part, and all of Crimea's actions were a reaction to that. It's understandable that many people in Daein dislike Ike, but certainly not justified. It's not morally ambiguous to defend yourself.

(btw, when Micaiah claims that "all [their] cities and towns had been reduced to ruins", I find that hard to believe when Nevassa is portrayed pretty much unscarred in RD, as far as architecture goes. Not to mention that Daein's army wasn't exactly working hard to minimize damage to their own country, if the events in Talrega are anything to go by.

So you're saying that if I punch you, you can stab me back? Because the US invaded Iraq, ISIS is justified in bombing US?

Ike didn't defend himself when he invaded Daein. First of all, he's a mercenary, so he's not even Ashnard's target, which is just the Crimean government and army, which he's not a party towards. So it wouldn't even be self-defence if he fought back, let alone launched a pointless invasion considering that Crimea shares a border with Begnion. In Civ 5, you get a warmongering penalty if you take over other civ's cities even if that civ invaded and took your own. There is a reason to that, two wrongs don't make a right. 

Daein was desperate to push back against the invasion. The difference here is if someone owns a farm, an intruder comes in to kill them but the farm owner has to burn it down to save his own skin. Honestly, the intruder is more to blame. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Icelerate

[Azz]

21 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I'm a huge fan of pegusi promoting to wyverns. Once a green recruit has some experience with a flying mount, they would absolutely try to tame something that could possibly eat them too (and would be infinitely more valuable in combat).

This.

Also, I prefer Lance/Sword wyvern riders over Lance/Axe. In fact, I'm not a fan of axes in general, and I was quite happy happy with their exclusion from SoV.

[Lau]

30 minutes ago, Azz said:

This.

Also, I prefer Lance/Sword wyvern riders over Lance/Axe. In fact, I'm not a fan of axes in general, and I was quite happy happy with their exclusion from SoV.

 I agree. I tend to find that axes have a noticeably lower accuracy than lances and swords, which puts me off from using them. I barely noticed that they were gone in SoV because I hardly use them.

[ping]

35 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

So you're saying that if I punch you, you can stab me back? Because the US invaded Iraq, ISIS is justified in bombing US?

Sorry, but that's silly. Of course you can make every argument seem ridiculous if you exaggerate it to the extreme. Are you saying that if you shot me in the kneecap, then I should help you getting a clear shot for the other one? Maybe roll up my trouser leg so that you don't just shoot through the fabic?

45 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Ike didn't defend himself when he invaded Daein. First of all, he's a mercenary, so he's not even Ashnard's target, which is just the Crimean government and army, which he's not a party towards. So it wouldn't even be self-defence if he fought back, let alone launched a pointless invasion considering that Crimea shares a border with Begnion. In Civ 5, you get a warmongering penalty if you take over other civ's cities even if that civ invaded and took your own. There is a reason to that, two wrongs don't make a right. 

Right after Ike found Elincia, Daein attacked them before the GM even had an opportunity to broker a deal with them. They then pursued them well into neutral territory. Not only that, but Ike has been officially hired by Cain long before the Crimean counterattack. Honestly, even if I followed your argument that the GM weren't Daein's target (which I don't) - he'd still only do what's written in his job description.

Bringing game mechanics into the argument is honestly pointless. In Civ4, non-participating countries only care about war declarations, not conquered cities, and if they aren't friendly with the attacked civ, they don't care at all. In Master of Orion 2, other species don't give a shit no matter what you do (with the exception of biological weapons, iirc). Carpet whole planets with nuclear hellfire? Eh, whatever. Blow up a whole fucking planet? Has the same impact as a standard invasion, which is to say none at all. Does anything in this paragraph support my argument? Of course not.

Crimea's hope was to end the war swiftly by striking directly against Ashnard. They thought they would find them in Nevassa, and if they had been right, this move would have been the fastest way to end the war. It's not as if they could have liberated Crimea directly without a fight, and given Ashnard's character, just driving back Daein's troops wouldn't even have ended the war. Sorry, but unless you consider "roll over and die" to be the only correct response to being targetted by a war of aggression, I don't understand how Elincia's and Ike's actions during PoR can be considered immoral.

I'd also like to repeat that Crimea did not commit war crimes against Daein citizens, as far as we know. Daein's troops committed war crimes against Daein citizens. Crimea/Begnion even tried to distribute food among the afflicted population.

[Magical Glace]

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

No its not because you get it when you pay for it and it lasts like permanently.  Microtransactions are things that last for short terms like the dragon orbs.

Microtransactions can get you permanent in-game items, what are you talking about?  Even in Heroes, you can get a permanent EXP boost from using orbs for castle upgrades.  That's actually what I used the 10 orbs I bought for.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

I was referring to the obnoxious amounts of grinding that you practically have to do to make your units better. To battle, you need orbs. To grind, you need very specific materials because normal grinding will start to get tedious. 

Sure, there is strategy but again, its so minimal that its not even close to that of your typical FE. But again, that's not what Heroes is all about. Its main selling point is to play as your favourite characters and that's that which is what a lot of people are more focused on rather than the game itself.

You don't need orbs to battle, you need them to summon characters.  You need stamina to battle.  And Stamina naturally recharges over time.

No one in their right minds uses shards/crystals to level characters you intend to use since SI was added.  Not to mention, with a fully levelled castle, it doesn't take that long to get to level 40.

The later PvE maps in Heroes can get pretty tricky, imo.  They're short, but within the confines the maps tend to cleverly stack enemies, have enemies use skills, and manipulate terrain to ensure there's no "easy way out."  

As an example, one week into the game, we got Narcian's map.  It's designed to funnel the player through a chokepoint.  There's a brave archer to try and prevent flyers from carelessly flying past the chokepoint, and Narcian is positioned to make it difficult for archers to reach him quickly.

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Your point?

That I understand that gachapon is random?  I play two gacha games and as soon as Sayaka Miki is added might start rerolling on a third.  

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

Wrong. Stamina is there to make sure that you don't play too much of the game. It is another way of the game to force players to use orbs if those stamina bottles aren't in the players favour.

I have not once been forced to use orbs for the sake of restoring stamina, and I'm sitting on over 200 stamina bottles.  It's to ensure you don't play the game all at once.   It's to make you play more, not less, by preventing players from exhausting themselves on the game quickly.  

3 hours ago, Harvey said:

And again, a free game does this too. You use bandwidth to get the game and you also use it to play it. And who said mobile games are not cash grab? What's not gonna stop you to spend like 200 orbs on a Wolt swimsuit that's under limited time?

Heck forget Wolt. When you consider that mobile games abuse your dopamine into making you think that you are getting something worthwhile, you are not really getting that one bit. Look up games like Dungeon Keeper or even Candy Crush and those games will make sure that you need to bleed them money to win.

And true, Heroes isn't as close to that but its done in a manner that just derails the overall experience with the tedious grinding I mentioned earlier.

I never said it wasn't cashgrab.  I said there was a difference between a paid retail game cashgrabbing and free games cashgrabbing.  With a paid retail game, I already paid the devs up front.  With a free game, I haven't.  That difference is enough to make me much harsher on such practices in a game that I should have already fully paid for.

The tedious grinding really isn't all that tedious, as I pointed out earlier.

Bandwidth is not paid to the game's devs.  It's to your Internet provider.  The person stopping me from whaling on Halloween Nowi is me.  So yeah.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[NekoKnight]

16 minutes ago, ping said:

Crimea's hope was to end the war swiftly by striking directly against Ashnard. They thought they would find them in Nevassa, and if they had been right, this move would have been the fastest way to end the war.

To add onto this, geographically, you need to pass through Daein (or travel by sea) to get to Crimea from Begnion (there are mountains dividing the two countries). This is a plot point in Radiant Dawn.

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

To add onto this, geographically, you need to pass through Daein (or travel by sea) to get to Crimea from Begnion (there are mountains dividing the two countries). This is a plot point in Radiant Dawn.

Nope. You can just skirt the northern edge of Serenes. There is little logic as to why the Laguz Alliance + Crimea pass through Daein, it's one of the missteps at the end of Part 3. Crimea should have just held the Oribes Bridge (since its the only point of contact) and moved back through Begnion as it did early in Part 3. Micaiah would be forced to either ram Crimea over and over, or join the Senate's forces in Begnion. If she got smashed in the big B, it'd take her a while to get reinforcements.

 

Look closely and you can see dotted lines on this map:

Edited November 4, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Icelerate]

13 minutes ago, ping said:

Sorry, but that's silly. Of course you can make every argument seem ridiculous if you exaggerate it to the extreme. Are you saying that if you shot me in the kneecap, then I should help you getting a clear shot for the other one? Maybe roll up my trouser leg so that you don't just shoot through the fabic?

Right after Ike found Elincia, Daein attacked them before the GM even had an opportunity to broker a deal with them. They then pursued them well into neutral territory. Not only that, but Ike has been officially hired by Cain long before the Crimean counterattack. Honestly, even if I followed your argument that the GM weren't Daein's target (which I don't) - he'd still only do what's written in his job description.

Bringing game mechanics into the argument is honestly pointless. In Civ4, non-participating countries only care about war declarations, not conquered cities, and if they aren't friendly with the attacked civ, they don't care at all. In Master of Orion 2, other species don't give a shit no matter what you do (with the exception of biological weapons, iirc). Carpet whole planets with nuclear hellfire? Eh, whatever. Blow up a whole fucking planet? Has the same impact as a standard invasion, which is to say none at all. Does anything in this paragraph support my argument? Of course not.

Crimea's hope was to end the war swiftly by striking directly against Ashnard. They thought they would find them in Nevassa, and if they had been right, this move would have been the fastest way to end the war. It's not as if they could have liberated Crimea directly without a fight, and given Ashnard's character, just driving back Daein's troops wouldn't even have ended the war. Sorry, but unless you consider "roll over and die" to be the only correct response to being targetted by a war of aggression, I don't understand how Elincia's and Ike's actions during PoR can be considered immoral.

I'd also like to repeat that Crimea did not commit war crimes against Daein citizens, as far as we know. Daein's troops committed war crimes against Daein citizens. Crimea/Begnion even tried to distribute food among the afflicted population.

7

You have the right to self-defence, that's it. Just don't overreact and start involving people that have no quarrels with you. 

Well if Daein didn't tolerate mercenaries, they'd have to disband. If the American government started banning guns/militias, the militiamen/gun owners wouldn't be justified in taking up arms. How does Caineghis hiring them justify an invasion of Daein? Did Caineghis call for an invasion of Daein? He most certainly did not. 

Yeah, the game mechanic argument was dumb I admit. 

So it is Ike's, Sanaki's and Elincia's fault that they decided not to gather intel and launch an invasion in such a rash manner. They made a judgemental error which caused a lot of unnecessary harm. If your family was killed due to a judgemental error or by accident, you're 100% justified to dislike the killers regardless of their intentions. After all, humans can only judge others by their actions since no one is a mind reader. 

Ashnard had ruled in the past 18 years without launching a war of aggression so you can't say they knew of Ashnard's character well enough especially when they thought he'd be in Nevassa, not Mellior. Where did I say "roll over and die"? I simply said focus on liberating your own country before thinking about occupying another. Also, if there is no alternative, then you establish a better government, not worse. 

Begnion committed all sorts of atrocities after the war. Ike is directly responsible because he empowered them. The opening narration says that Crimea had no time to help the suffering population. Giving food to one civilian does not pay for the crime of causing thousands to starve to death. 

Narration
During the battle for Talrega, Ike and the rest of his company come to a bleak realization. Wherever the Crimean army marches, the land becomes a battlefield. The damage is immense. Warfare and floodwaters claim homes, crops, and hope. Villagers seeking shelter and safety stumble blindly through the snow. To them, there is no doubt that the Crimeans are an invasion force.
However, the Crimeans have their own homeland to save. Focused as they are on that overriding goal, they cannot stop even to help the innocent victims of war. The only way they can help the people of Daein is to keep marching. The faster they reach Daein's capital of Nevassa and put an end to the war, the better for everyone.
 

[NekoKnight]

25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Nope. You can just skirt the northern edge of Serenes. There is little logic as to why the Laguz Alliance + Crimea pass through Daein, it's one of the missteps at the end of Part 3. Crimea should have just held the Oribes Bridge (since its the only point of contact) and moved back through Begnion as it did early in Part 3. Micaiah would be forced to either ram Crimea over and over, or join the Senate's forces in Begnion. If she got smashed in the big B, it'd take her a while to get reinforcements.

 

Look closely and you can see dotted lines on this map:

Hm, well spotted. I'll have to review the RD script again.

24 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

You have the right to self-defence, that's it. Just don't overreact and start involving people that have no quarrels with you. 

How do you feel about World War 2 then? Should the allies have left the Germans and Japanese alone after pushing them back to their own territories?

Edited November 4, 2017 by NekoKnight

[NekoKnight]

Edit: Double post. Please delete.

Edited November 4, 2017 by NekoKnight

[NekoKnight]

Edit: Triple whammy. Delete pls.

Edited November 4, 2017 by NekoKnight

[ping]

I mean, here's Crimea's choice.

a) Fight Daein's troops in Daein, causing Daein citizens to suffer.
b) Fight Daein's troops in Crimea, causing Crimean citizens to suffer.
c) ??? (I'd say "roll over and die", but I'm open for suggestions)

It's kinda like the eeeevil villain telling a mother that it's her choice which child he's going to murder. It's technically her choice that kills that particular kid, but it's hardly her fault. Daein started an unprovoked war, Crimea (or, more specifically, Elincia) had to react in some fashion, and any such fashion would cause suffering.

And again, Daein's troops actively harmed their own population by flooding Talrega in order to slow down Crimea. You can't just talk that away, and for all we know, Crimea did not actively (!!!) attack Daein civilians.

You are suggesting that Crimea should just do nothing if you say that the GM should lay down their weapons. Again: When they had Elincia in their hideout, Daein ambushed them without even giving the GM the choice to surrender. The GM were never the ones initiating a fight until chapter 18 (? - the one after Ike promotes). Every time, it's Daein attacking them. Not to mention that you can't seriously compare the Daein occupation force with the US government. One of them has a solid legitimization, one does not, unless "I have the bigger sword!" counts.

[Icelerate]

40 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

Hm, well spotted. I'll have to review the RD script again.

How do you feel about World War 2 then? Should the allies have left the Germans and Japanese alone after pushing them back to their own territories?

Don't use nukes and don't carpet bomb entire cities to oblivion. Though the Soviets would have taken over so it was better the West did. On the other hand, Crimea handed over the country to an outright worse government. At least the West took a stand against Soviet expansion. 

4 minutes ago, ping said:

I mean, here's Crimea's choice.

a) Fight Daein's troops in Daein, causing Daein citizens to suffer.
b) Fight Daein's troops in Crimea, causing Crimean citizens to suffer.
c) ??? (I'd say "roll over and die", but I'm open for suggestions)

It's kinda like the eeeevil villain telling a mother that it's her choice which child he's going to murder. It's technically her choice that kills that particular kid, but it's hardly her fault. Daein started an unprovoked war, Crimea (or, more specifically, Elincia) had to react in some fashion, and any such fashion would cause suffering.

And again, Daein's troops actively harmed their own population by flooding Talrega in order to slow down Crimea. You can't just talk that away, and for all we know, Crimea did not actively (!!!) attack Daein civilians.

You are suggesting that Crimea should just do nothing if you say that the GM should lay down their weapons. Again: When they had Elincia in their hideout, Daein ambushed them without even giving the GM the choice to surrender. The GM were never the ones initiating a fight until chapter 18 (? - the one after Ike promotes). Every time, it's Daein attacking them. Not to mention that you can't seriously compare the Daein occupation force with the US government. One of them has a solid legitimization, one does not, unless "I have the bigger sword!" counts.

3

I've already laid out much better options both morally and logically. Crimea ended up doing both a) and b) instead of picking a) and b) so I guess this is like the mother deciding to slaughter both her children instead of choosing one. 

Yet Shinon was recruited by Daein despite being a GM so all they had to do was disband and lay down arms.

How exactly flooding a province as a defensive tactic worse than invading an entire country and handing it over to an oppressive regime? 

Ashnard is the legitimate heir to the throne of Daein so he has the same level of legitimacy in Tellius that the current US government has in the real world. 

[NekoKnight]

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Don't use nukes and don't carpet bomb entire cities to oblivion. Though the Soviets would have taken over so it was better the West did. On the other hand, Crimea handed over the country to an outright worse government. At least the West took a stand against Soviet expansion. 

There would still be a conventional counter-invasion of Germany and Japan even if nukes/carpet bombing weren't a thing, which is the situation in Fire Emblem.

Crimea is not "the West" in Tellius. Expecting them to go against Begnion would be like expecting France to handle the Soviets on their own.

[Icelerate]

18 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

There would still be a conventional counter-invasion of Germany and Japan even if nukes/carpet bombing weren't a thing, which is the situation in Fire Emblem.

Crimea is not "the West" in Tellius. Expecting them to go against Begnion would be like expecting France to handle the Soviets on their own.

Crimea has allies such as Gallia and would have guys like Tauroneo, Jill, Zihark, Laguz Emancipation Army, Stefan and the Greil Mercenaries. Begnion isn't so powerful against everyone else. 

Though using WW2 isn't even a good argument because first, the allies liberated territories occupied by Germany before an invasion into Germany itself. Over here, Crimea decided to attack Daein first before liberating their very own country. 

Even in FE, there are lords that use actual logic. For example, Roy first ends the uprisings and the Bern army in Lycia then Etruria before taking on Bern. Alm first takes Zophia castle, then liberates the rest of the country before launching an invasion of Rigel. 

Imagine if George H.W. Bush decided to invade Iraq outright instead of freeing Kuwait from Iraqi occupation. That's basically what Crimea did to Daein. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Icelerate

[Etrurian emperor]

8 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Crimea has allies such as Gallia and would have guys like Tauroneo, Jill, Zihark, Laguz Emancipation Army, Stefan and the Greil Mercenaries. Begnion isn't so powerful against everyone else. 

Though using WW2 isn't even a good argument because first, the allies liberated territories occupied by Germany before an invasion into Germany itself. Over here, Crimea decided to attack Daein first before liberating their very own country. 

Even if FE, there are lords that use actual logic. For example, Roy first ends the uprisings and the Bern army in Lycia then Etruria before taking on Bern. Alm first takes Zophia castle, then liberates the rest of the country before launching an invasion of Rigel. 

Imagine if George H.W. Bush decided to invade Iraq outright instead of freeing Kuwait from Iraqi occupation. That's basically what Crimea did to Daein. 

Actually Begnion really is that powerful. In RD all the other countries(aside from Goldoa) in the world had to gang up on them after all the main Laguz nations(again minus Goldoa) were already pushed back by them. The Tellius history showed that some centuries before the games Begnion could again fight every other country at once and all by itself. Crimea would also be far to busy restoring their country to oppose Begnion, and since they are able to restore their country because of Begnion aid its unlikely they would have protested anyway. There's nothing in the game depicting begnions annexation as controversial to the other countries. 

And it really depends on the country. The Netherlands for instance were only liberated after Nazi Germany fell and I don't think they were the only country like that. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[NekoKnight]

12 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Crimea has allies such as Gallia and would have guys like Tauroneo, Jill, Zihark, Laguz Emancipation Army, Stefan and the Greil Mercenaries. Begnion isn't so powerful against everyone else.

1. The Laguz have zero reason to want to help Daein.
2. A handful of soldiers from various nations isn't going to stop the most powerful nation (barring Goldoa but they're mostly neutral) on the continent.

12 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Though using WW2 isn't even a good argument because first, the allies liberated territories occupied by Germany before an invasion into Germany itself. Over here, Crimea decided to attack Daein first before liberating their very own country. 

If Germany were the first stop to defeat the Nazi war machine, you can bet that's where everyone would be headed first. The Allies had to fight them in their conquered territories first.

12 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Even if FE, there are lords that use actual logic. For example, Roy first ends the uprisings and the Bern army in Lycia then Etruria before taking on Bern. Alm first takes Zophia castle, then liberates the rest of the country before launching an invasion of Rigel. 

Imagine if George H.W. Bush decided to invade Iraq outright instead of freeing Kuwait from Iraqi occupation. That's basically what Crimea did to Daein. 

You're moving the goalposts. Now you're saying that an invasion is okay but the order of liberating/invading matters.

Edited November 5, 2017 by NekoKnight

[Icelerate]

43 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Actually Begnion really is that powerful. In RD all the other countries(aside from Goldoa) in the world had to gang up on them after all the main Laguz nations(again minus Goldoa) were already pushed back by them. The Tellius history showed that some centuries before the games Begnion could again fight every other country at once and all by itself. Crimea would also be far to busy restoring their country to oppose Begnion, and since they are able to restore their country because of Begnion aid its unlikely they would have protested anyway. There's nothing in the game depicting begnions annexation as controversial to the other countries. 

And it really depends on the country. The Netherlands for instance were only liberated after Nazi Germany fell and I don't think they were the only country like that. 

Even after Begnion's army was blessed by Ashera, making them much more powerful, a handful of beorc and laguz managed to decimate them they really aren't all that powerful. Also, Ike wasn't forced at that moment to hand over the country to Begnion so you can't say Begnion is too powerful as an excuse. Nowhere in RD or PoR is it implied that Begnion literally forced everyone to comply. From what I understand, it was a voluntary abdication. 

 

39 minutes ago, NekoKnight said:

1. The Laguz have zero reason to want to help Daein.
2. A handful of soldiers from various nations isn't going to stop the most powerful nation (barring Goldoa but they're mostly neutral) on the continent.

If Germany were the first stop to defeat the Nazi war machine, you can bet that's where everyone would be headed first. The Allies had fight them in their conquered territories first.

You're moving the goalposts. Now you're saying that an invasion is okay but the order of liberating/invading matters.

1. Okay.

2. That's exactly what happened in part 4 of RD. 

Invading Daein didn't help defeat Ashnard so invading it was dumb. Not to mention it empowered a worse monster. 

The order does matter because one uses logic and the other one doesn't. Invasions can be justified if the good far outweighs the harm and you have enough evidence to make a compelling case. How is this the case in Crimea's invasion of Daein? 

Even if this was the lesser evil, which I have yet to be convinced of, the people who were wronged still have a right to be upset, that's the entire point I'm trying to make. Being upset is a natural human emotion. 

Ike even claims Jill is justified to hate Ike because he killed her father so why aren't the people of Daein justified to hate Ike? 

Ike
If you want revenge on me for your father, I understand. You have...that right.
 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Icelerate

[Interdimensional Observer]

 

42 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Begnion isn't so powerful against everyone else. 

The US emerged physically unharmed from WWII, it had the ability to flex its muscles afterwards. Britain and France could not because they had been bombed and occupied into ruin. The Soviets were injured, but were bigger than B and F and could extract resources from Central and Eastern Europe under its control. Crimea is like France/Britain, Begnion is the SU. Mind you France and Britain lost their empires after WWII and also needed the US to bail them out with the Marshall Plan. There is no country, other than Begnion that could provide Crimea with a Marshall Plan- Gallia is hunter-gatherers, not an advanced superpower economy.

 

8 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Even after Begnion's army was blessed by Ashera, making them much more powerful, a handful of beorc and laguz managed to decimate them they really aren't all that powerful.

I don't believe Ashera destoned the entire Begnion army to fight for her, only a small chunk of it. Their blessings were relatively weak and some of the soldiers were inexperienced too.

[Icelerate]

36 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 

The US emerged physically unharmed from WWII, it had the ability to flex its muscles afterwards. Britain and France could not because they had been bombed and occupied into ruin. The Soviets were injured, but were bigger than B and F and could extract resources from Central and Eastern Europe under its control. Crimea is like France/Britain, Begnion is the SU. Mind you France and Britain lost their empires after WWII and also needed the US to bail them out with the Marshall Plan. There is no country, other than Begnion that could provide Crimea with a Marshall Plan- Gallia is hunter-gatherers, not an advanced superpower economy.

 

I don't believe Ashera destoned the entire Begnion army to fight for her, only a small chunk of it. Their blessings were relatively weak and some of the soldiers were inexperienced too.

The WW2 analogy was used against me but now that I think about it, that analogy is flawed. The US is a world superpower unlike Crimea so the US invading and occupying Japan and Germany makes far more sense than Crimea invading and occupying Daein because the US can establish some form of just governance and an economic plan for the occupied countries. Crimea can't do any of this so WW2 and the Mad King War are nothing alike and mentioning WW2 as analogous to MKW is absurd. 

Considering the number of Disciples of Order you fight compared to Begnion army in part 3, I think she destoned most of them if not all. Inexperienceness is a moot point because they'd be even more inexperienced in PoR due to not having fought in a war unlike in part 3. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

22 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Considering the number of Disciples of Order you fight compared to Begnion army in part 3, I think she destoned most of them if not all. Inexperienceness is a moot point because they'd be even more inexperienced in PoR due to not having fought in a war unlike in part 3. 

Then why did Soren and Ranulf make such a huge deal of the invincibility of the Begnion Central Army in Part 3? Ranulf and Soren aren't stupid people.

[Icelerate]

Just now, Interdimensional Observer said:

Then why did Soren and Ranulf make such a huge deal of the invincibility of the Begnion Central Army in Part 3? Ranulf and Soren aren't stupid people.

Defensive war is different from offensive war. It's easier to fight defensively on the homefront than for an invading force to fight offensively. The same reason why Micaiah's army was putting up the fight it was despite being far weaker than the coalition. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

 

2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Defensive war is different from offensive war. It's easier to fight defensively on the homefront than for an invading force to fight offensively. The same reason why Micaiah's army was putting up the fight it was despite being far weaker than the coalition. 

Except the territory that the three P4 armies were passing through wasn't "homefront" for all but the few Begnionites among them. Nor were they hiding in fortresses or on cliffs. The enemy could also warp in from just about anywhere without notice. And, the enemy most frequently warped ahead of the hero armies in an ambush while they were out in the open. It was basically raid after raid on an open "convoy".

And then there is the unplayed battle in Sienne, in which the Disciples of Order were probably on the defensive, not the Hawk Army and Giffca and Caineghis. Heck the three heroes armies are invaders in P4 when you think about it.