Most overused FE trope?

[DolphinDingus]

1 minute ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

You are making Ike cry. I can sense his soul being crushed.

Funny how Ike never says "I fight for my friends" in a Fire Emblem game.

Also funny how the Japanese version of that quote is more like "I fight for what I must protect." Much closer to his actual character.

[Rapier]

On 12/09/2017 at 11:11 PM, Armagon said:

The reason i didn't like the Fire Dragon being there is because

1. It had no character
2. It appears after Nergal's death. Nergal was hyped up to be the big bad of the game but then the true final boss isn't him.

3. He was a Deus Ex

Nergal could not pull it without Ninian/Nils. The entire point of his actions was to gather enough quintessence to summon a dragon, and yet Nergal just happens to do that in the end even when he didn't have all the requisites for its summoning, rendering EVERYTHING in the game useless.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Rapier said:

3. He was a Deus Ex

Nergal could not pull it without Ninian/Nils. The entire point of his actions was to gather enough quintessence to summon a dragon, and yet Nergal just happens to do that in the end even when he didn't have all the requisites for its summoning, rendering EVERYTHING in the game useless.

Didn't he have their Dragonstone? Or was that merged into Ninian when Nergal forced her shift and it died with her?

To be fair, Nergal was on his last breath when he opened the gate- villains across video games have a tendency to do great feats in their last moment, which I guess they can being they're no longer concerned about their own life.

I did dislike the final chapter replica morphs somewhat in the sense that it seems Nergal invested a lot of Quintessence into making them and augmenting Limstella with so much power that he says she'd soon perish from the supersaturation. How did Nergal have that much Quntessence to spare? Why didn't he spend it on opening the Gate once he had Ninian? Everyone he gets the boatloads of Quintessence from is dead by that point.

[Dandy Druid]

I'm hoping people aren't mixing up trope with archetype, since the archetypes are specific to this series meanwhile tropes are more universal.

Personality-trope: I'm over the Pegasus knight in love with the main character, but doesn't end up with him. It was fine with Catria, but having experienced it recently with Cordelia and Clair I'm just over it. I hope that we can get a break from it for 2 games.

Design Trope: lolis. This is a war game. I know it started with Tiki and I like Tiki but c'mon. Why loli why.

[Armagon]

6 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Personality-trope: I'm over the Pegasus knight in love with the main character, but doesn't end up with him. It was fine with Catria, but having experienced it recently with Cordelia and Clair I'm just over it. I hope that we can get a break from it for 2 games.

I wouldn't say this trope is overused. Because we had Catria and Clair, then the trope wasn't seen again until Cordelia. That's only the Pegasus Knights. If you add non-Pegasus Knights into the mix, you get Marisha in FE3/12, and Faye in FE15. 

[Dandy Druid]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I wouldn't say this trope is overused. Because we had Catria and Clair, then the trope wasn't seen again until Cordelia. That's only the Pegasus Knights. If you add non-Pegasus Knights into the mix, you get Marisha in FE3/12, and Faye in FE15. 

True. It's just that Cordelia being promoted a lot and then Clair came out. Marisha/Malliesia also falls into that trope, but I'm slightly entertained by her though. Since she doesn't get Marth, she becomes a "delinquent" according to rumors, so I like to headcanon it as her becoming some sort of mob boss that missed out on love. The others don't really have interesting epilogues. But yeah, same trope. Bonus points to me being a hypocrite too, since I forgot her being my current DP rn.

Faye's weird. She's more of a Tharja than a Catria. She seemed more obsessed with Alm in some parts of her dialogue, but I guess it can still be considered a part of the trope.

But in last few games (starting with New Mystery), we've had Catria, Marisha, Cordelia, Tharja, Camilla, Rhajat, Clair, and Faye. Arguably Oboro, but I don't consider her that bad, since she had a lot of other stuff going for her character (fashion, discrimination, etc.).

May not be "overused" since it's only mainly prevalent in the newer games, but I would like a break from it. Maybe just limit it to 1 girl for the next game. Or just have 2 Oboros (they may have a crush, but they have other interests as well).

[Armagon]

6 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

It's just that Cordelia being promoted a lot and then Clair came out.

Well, Clair existed long before Cordelia did.

6 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

we've had Catria, Marisha, Cordelia, Tharja, Camilla, Rhajat, Clair, and Faye. Arguably Oboro, but I don't consider her that bad, since she had a lot of other stuff going for her character (fashion, discrimination, etc.).

I wouldn't count Tharja, Camilla, Rhajat, and Oboro, since they can marry their love interest (Corrin for the former three and Takumi for Oboro). For that same reason, i wouldn't count Lalum as well, since she can marry Roy.

[Dandy Druid]

37 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Well, Clair existed long before Cordelia did.

I wouldn't count Tharja, Camilla, Rhajat, and Oboro, since they can marry their love interest (Corrin for the former three and Takumi for Oboro). For that same reason, i wouldn't count Lalum as well, since she can marry Roy.

Fair enough.

I would call Lalum another Oboro. Even if she doesn't marry Roy, something tells me she'll be just fine (Poor Percival)

[NoirCore]

1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Personality-trope: I'm over the Pegasus knight in love with the main character, but doesn't end up with him. It was fine with Catria, but having experienced it recently with Cordelia and Clair I'm just over it. I hope that we can get a break from it for 2 games.

I honestly didn't notice it, probably because Clair smoothly decided to move on to another guy.

[Dandy Druid]

1 minute ago, NoirCore said:

I honestly didn't notice it, probably because Clair smoothly decided to move on to another guy.

It's been a while, but her convos with Gray at first have her pining for Alm

But by A she changed her mind. So her character grew out of her crush I guess you can say. Kind of nice actually.

[NoirCore]

Just now, Dandy Druid said:

It's been a while, but her convos with Gray at first have her pining for Alm

But by A she changed her mind. So her character grew out of her crush I guess you can say. Kind of nice actually.

I know she was attracted to Alm at first, but unlike Cordelia, she pretty much easily jumped to Gray.

[Dandy Druid]

2 minutes ago, NoirCore said:

I know she was attracted to Alm at first, but unlike Cordelia, she pretty much easily jumped to Gray.

True. She did get over him by like, what, late Ch.3? So about halfway through. Then she swooped to plan B pretty fast.

[DolphinDingus]

20 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I did dislike the final chapter replica morphs somewhat in the sense that it seems Nergal invested a lot of Quintessence into making them and augmenting Limstella with so much power that he says she'd soon perish from the supersaturation. How did Nergal have that much Quntessence to spare? Why didn't he spend it on opening the Gate once he had Ninian? Everyone he gets the boatloads of Quintessence from is dead by that point.

I don't think anyone knows about standard measurements of quintessence, so we don't know whether the amounts he used on the replica morphs was "too much," or if Nergal was simply making use of quintessence he didn't think he needed. Now, you may say that he needed every little bit he could get, but I saw it as he was still expecting to kill Eliwood's troupe and use your character's quintessence to attain his goal. Granted, while my explanation excuses a plot hole (just barely), it opens up the terrible trope of villains whose "master plans" backfire and defeat them. This master plan being (Nergal voice) "Let Eliwood and his friends become powerful, so that I can kill them and claim their strong quintessence!" Which is arguably stupider than the explanation that he made the replica morphs to have a cool final battle.

Of course, this is mostly headcanon. I remember Nergal saying something along the lines of "all the quintessence I need is on its way here..." but my memory is kind of fuzzy, so I might be making it up.

[carhisalmano]

On 09/09/2017 at 4:05 PM, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Libra's supports are actually very interesting for the most part. His supports with Tharja in particular are fascinating. Players don't give him much of a chance because of the one-trick-pony characters in Awakening, but Libra is surprisingly dynamic.

No.

Intelligent Systems needs to stop trying so hard with this transvestite, because there's nothing interesting about him.
Libra is a pathetic excuse of a character, and to be frank I'm GLAD he doesn't get any attention or love. I laughed so freaking hard when he was abused over and over.
It's not even sad, just plain hilarious.
And that's all he deserves in his hideous face.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA    
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA    

Oh man I wonder what would happens if Soleil ever meets Libra, oh well she would ask this brainless retard if he is truly a man or not and then takes off his clothes.
Because that's all he is really. An empty hollow shell with no personality.

In all seriousness, I'd take Fates' writing over any overused crap that Awakening has ever done. Period.                                 

[Florina's #1 Fan]

2 hours ago, carhisalmano said:

No.

Intelligent Systems needs to stop trying so hard with this transvestite, because there's nothing interesting about him.
Libra is a pathetic excuse of a character, and to be frank I'm GLAD he doesn't get any attention or love. I laughed so freaking hard when he was abused over and over.
It's not even sad, just plain hilarious.
And that's all he deserves in his hideous face.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA    
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA    

Oh man I wonder what would happens if Soleil ever meets Libra, oh well she would ask this brainless retard if he is truly a man or not and then takes off his clothes.
Because that's all he is really. An empty hollow shell with no personality.

In all seriousness, I'd take Fates' writing over any overused crap that Awakening has ever done. Period.                                 

What... who hurt you?

In all seriousness, a one-note character Libra is not. Actually, almost none of his supports revolve around his androgynous appearance. The only ones that do are Virion's and sort-of Sully's.

In his supports you learn: His parents thought he was possessed by a demon and abandoned him, and he may have been abused by them, as in his supports with Nowi, he states that he held his mother so tightly that she gave him a scar forcing him off. He possibly has depression, as he has serious issues with self-loathing and internal hatred of his decisions, his creations, like his art in his supports with Robin, and even his purity, which he questions the legitimacy of. He wonders often if the path of the clergy is where he belongs, and he tries his hardest not to see himself as a hypocrite when he's healing with one hand and killing with the other. He tells Sully, "I cannot help but feel I'm merely skilled at playing such a figure. I worry that my entire person is an act. A hollow shell." He tells Gaius that when he prays for his safety, he is also essentially praying for the defeat and death of the enemy, which he sees as sinful.

Libra is skilled at teaching Naga's gospel, as shown in his conversations with Miriel, who attempted to increase the amount of attendees to Libra's religious gatherings, but he still does not have the confidence to stop Miriel because he doesn't have true sureness in himself. He also serves other people out of a need for self-satisfaction. He is constantly doing charitable things and being everyone's shoulder to cry on in order to feel better about himself, and he acknowledges that he can have selfish motives, like when he said he would volunteer for Tharja's new hex, but for his own benefit. He helps at orphanages, he teaches people to pray and how to serve the gods, he openly admires people's good qualities without looking for their faults, and has almost endless patience despite the fact he has every reason to hate the world, and yet, he gives to it freely and constantly, regardless of his innermost feelings.

And reading all of Libra's supports and writing these paragraphs just made me appreciate him further. The writing team could have just left Libra at "man who looks like a woman." They didn't, though. They made a character with a dark background, a true servant's heart, and what appears to be a debilitating case of self-loathing. They did that instead of the supports being generic "haha ,look it's a dude that looks like a girl, let's see how every character reacts to that" conversations, and I am sincerely entranced with an FE character just for their character, which honestly has not happened before for me.

[Cute Chao]

3 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

What... who hurt you?

In all seriousness, a one-note character Libra is not. Actually, almost none of his supports revolve around his androgynous appearance. The only ones that do are Virion's and sort-of Sully's.

In his supports you learn: His parents thought he was possessed by a demon and abandoned him, and he may have been abused by them, as in his supports with Nowi, he states that he held his mother so tightly that she gave him a scar forcing him off. He possibly has depression, as he has serious issues with self-loathing and internal hatred of his decisions, his creations, like his art in his supports with Robin, and even his purity, which he questions the legitimacy of. He wonders often if the path of the clergy is where he belongs, and he tries his hardest not to see himself as a hypocrite when he's healing with one hand and killing with the other. He tells Sully, "I cannot help but feel I'm merely skilled at playing such a figure. I worry that my entire person is an act. A hollow shell." He tells Gaius that when he prays for his safety, he is also essentially praying for the defeat and death of the enemy, which he sees as sinful.

Libra is skilled at teaching Naga's gospel, as shown in his conversations with Miriel, who attempted to increase the amount of attendees to Libra's religious gatherings, but he still does not have the confidence to stop Miriel because he doesn't have true sureness in himself. He also serves other people out of a need for self-satisfaction. He is constantly doing charitable things and being everyone's shoulder to cry on in order to feel better about himself, and he acknowledges that he can have selfish motives, like when he said he would volunteer for Tharja's new hex, but for his own benefit. He helps at orphanages, he teaches people to pray and how to serve the gods, he openly admires people's good qualities without looking for their faults, and has almost endless patience despite the fact he has every reason to hate the world, and yet, he gives to it freely and constantly, regardless of his innermost feelings.

And reading all of Libra's supports and writing these paragraphs just made me appreciate him further. The writing team could have just left Libra at "man who looks like a woman." They didn't, though. They made a character with a dark background, a true servant's heart, and what appears to be a debilitating case of self-loathing. They did that instead of the supports being generic "haha ,look it's a dude that looks like a girl, let's see how every character reacts to that" conversations, and I am sincerely entranced with an FE character just for their character, which honestly has not happened before for me.

I already like the guy and you make me like him even more :) 

I need to go reread his supports. I haven't looked at most Awakening supports for a while >.<

[Florina's #1 Fan]

Just now, Cute Chao said:

I already like the guy and you make me like him even more :) 

I need to go reread his supports. I haven't looked at most Awakening supports for a while >.<

I read all of them in order to argue here XD And I liked Libra, and I knew that he was a deep character, but the only time I got to see it was when I married him to Tharja one time. Today, after reading his conversations, he may be one of my favorite characters in the series. I had no idea he was so interesting.

[Cute Chao]

2 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I read all of them in order to argue here XD And I liked Libra, and I knew that he was a deep character, but the only time I got to see it was when I married him to Tharja one time. Today, after reading his conversations, he may be one of my favorite characters in the series. I had no idea he was so interesting.

Honestly, I find a lot of Awakening characters have a bit more to them if you look into their supports, although it looks like Libra has even more than that. 

I think they are remembered a lot for their one liners, etc, though, so no one remembers much more. 

Ofc, this is my opinion. I'm not going to say they're all massively deep, but I don't think they're all just the traits they're remembered for. Problem is, Heroes, much as I love it, does make it worse by narrowing just about every character into one point for their sound bites. I get why they have to, but it just means more people will associate x character with one thing.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

26 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Ofc, this is my opinion. I'm not going to say they're all massively deep, but I don't think they're all just the traits they're remembered for. Problem is, Heroes, much as I love it, does make it worse by narrowing just about every character into one point for their sound bites. I get why they have to, but it just means more people will associate x character with one thing.

I agree with you here. Effie's lines in Echoes are so annoying. Literally all of it is about food, crushing things, or Elise (and she only mentions Elise in one line, and the line still manages to be about food). Effie doesn't even mention once why she cares about Elise so much, not even a sliver of an idea. Just food and crushing things. Some Fates characters bug me too, like Felicia (when you summon her, she literally stops herself mid-sentence to say "whoops, dropped my tea tray" -_- ) and Hana (her constant Let's train, let's explore, train, explore kind of reminds me of a chihuahua).

I can also say Heroes has the opposite effect on some other characters, especially characters that had harder-to-get supports. Personally, I have never used supports in battle knowingly outside of Awakening and Fates, nor have I tried to see the conversations because they are harder to set up, so to hear characters like Serra say, "I'm here! Lucky you!" in her snobby voice; that just is awesome. The voice work in Heroes is top notch, and some characters just speak to me more as characters than units in Heroes, unlike their homegame. Some of my personal favorites were Fae (Guess what? ...That's what! Haha), Sheena (I have often been called... stubborn), and Luke (Who wants to be a leader? Not me- all work, no glory.).

Edited September 27, 2017 by Florina's #1 Fan

[Cute Chao]

3 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I agree with you here. Effie's lines in Echoes are so annoying. Literally all of it is about food, crushing things, or Elise (and she only mentions Elise in one line, and the line still manages to be about food). Effie doesn't even mention once why she cares about Elise so much, not even a sliver of an idea. Just food and crushing things. Some Fates characters bug me too, like Felicia (when you summon her, she literally stops herself mid-sentence to say "whoops, dropped my tea tray" -_- ) and Hana (her constant Let's train, let's explore, train, explore kind of reminds me of a chihuahua).

I can also say Heroes has the opposite effect on some other characters, especially characters that had harder-to-get supports. Personally, I have never used supports in battle knowingly outside of Awakening and Fates, nor have I tried to see the conversations because they are harder to set up, so to hear characters like Serra say, "I'm here! Lucky you!" in her snobby voice; that just is awesome. The voice work in Heroes is top notch, and some characters just speak to me more as characters than units in Heroes, unlike their homegame. Some of my personal favorites were Fae (Guess what? ...That's what! Haha), Sheena (I have often been called... stubborn), and Luke (Who wants to be a leader? Not me- all work, no glory.).

It definitely does give life to others, don't get me wrong :D It's why I can't wait to see other, older characters in there who got no supports at all... or even a line in their original game (Kein, Alva, Roberto, when? xD ).

Sadly, it fully reduces Gaius just down to his sweet love. And yes, I know it's made a deal of in Awakening, but there's more to him when you read his supports - they usually start off about sweets and then tend to delve into something else. I really like that about him. But Heroes is just sweets. Though some of the lines seem really suggestive and really make me giggle xD 

Fae is just adorable in Heroes, through and through :D And you can have infinite fun poking Michalis and making him grouch at you xD 

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Cute Chao said:

I need to go reread his supports. I haven't looked at most Awakening supports for a while >.<

I would, because I sort of want to actually like post-Tellius characters again. But I'm much too afraid of being burned with the gimmick garbage. I did manage to read all of the PoR supports when I decided I would for better (Shinon) and worse (Ilyana, Ulki, Haar surprisingly) because there weren't that many. And I also tried to read a bunch of the Blazing supports. Yet I couldn't read them all nor attempted to do that with SS since there are so many. The number is still small enough though that if someone brings up a particular character, I can go back and read all their supports and come up with an answer as to what I think of them in relatively short order. Yet 13 and 14 have too many supports for me to do even that.

[Cute Chao]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I would, because I sort of want to actually like post-Tellius characters again. But I'm much too afraid of being burned with the gimmick garbage. I did manage to read all of the PoR supports when I decided I would for better (Shinon) and worse (Ilyana, Ulki, Haar surprisingly) because there weren't that many. And I also tried to read a bunch of the Blazing supports. Yet I couldn't read them all nor attempted to do that with SS since there are so many. The number is still small enough though that if someone brings up a particular character, I can go back and read all their supports and come up with an answer as to what I think of them in relatively short order. Yet 13 and 14 have too many supports for me to do even that.

With FE13 and 14, I tend to just pick one character that interests me and go through them like you do. It does take longer, but it gives you a good overview. Some characters become a lot more interesting (personally, I think Gaius is really good in supports - he has a lot of different talents and shows he's more than just a sweet loving thief. Everyone quotes Maribelle's supports with him, but I love the genuine interest he shows in Panne's culture in her supports, for instance)... some characters become a bit contradictory... 

PoR definitely didn't have enough supports for my liking, though. I read a list of ones that were meant to be in the game and still highly wish they had been added, but oh well ^.^'' 

 

Can I say I dislike the thing in Fire Emblem of the main character getting the most supports, despite also getting the most development in the story? I'm not sure if that counts as a trope, but I'd like to add that. Sometimes, they add so many supports to the main character, they seem to forget other characters exist -.-  

[Interdimensional Observer]

4 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

Can I say I dislike the thing in Fire Emblem of the main character getting the most supports, despite also getting the most development in the story? I'm not sure if that counts as a trope, but I'd like to add that. Sometimes, they add so many supports to the main character, they seem to forget other characters exist -.-

I get this too. It doesn't help that the main character isn't always the most interesting of people. There is what I call "potato-ism" with a couple (Robin, probably Corrin and Kris, Eliwood to an extent, Ike, and I'm guessing Roy). I don't think anyone eats potatos for their taste, they use them as a flavorless mass onto which you apply cheese and grease and salt and chives (all the non-Lord supporters) and whatever else you like for actual flavors. You could also call it bread-ism or pasta-ism, but I like the sounding of potatoism.

And then there is the matter of the Robinsexuals, Corrinsexuals, and the unremarkable Krissexuals.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Not the most overused trope since it only appears in the last three games, but it is still something that bugs me to no end and hope gets dropped in the next game. Those premonition dreams that depict something later in the game that is not what it first seems to be. I thought it was pretty clever in Awakening, and had proper context in the narrative when Robin wakes up already knowing Chrom. The dream's cutscene was a visual marvel that immediately drew you in. And the first person assassination of Chrom is jarring and makes you feel uneasy about playing the role of Robin throughout the game. My only complaint about this dream is it doesn't teach you anything of value in terms of gameplay tutorials.

Fates is where things take a nose dive. The dream is 100% gameplay, and you can look around the map and spoil yourself on the majority of the game's playable characters. Even if you try to ignore them, some of those green units fight it out anyway, revealing at least some of the names. It also makes the events leading to Chapter 6 feel redundant when we've already got the abridged version. It does establish a mystery of Corrin's identity, but that mystery is resolved less than an hour later, rather than the middle or final act of the game. This issue is further compounded by the fact that we never learn Corrin's actual lineage until the 20 dollar DLC we call "Revelations". What a mess.

Echoes didn't do it much better, because Echoes has TWO premonition dreams: before the prologue and at the beginning of Act 2 when we switch main characters. The first dream is the real offender. It is just a cutscene, but it's a portion of a fuller scene just before the final battle. I consider this dream a massive spoiler since it's not a dream that any character has and then responds to. And if you're thinking back to it as the game goes on, the context of the scene becomes clear. There's no way Alm and Celica would fight in their right minds, and the Duma Faithful are out to abduct Celica and somehow can create mind controlled witches. The second dream is more harmless. The only part of the dream that comes true is that Alm would eventually fight Rudolf. But the parts about Alm's friends all having been killed and him losing to Rudolf are a fabrication. I also like how Celica has no control over the events of the dream, since that's how people tend to have nightmares. There's still no reason for Celica to have such a vivid dream, however. My headcanon is that Mycen or Nomah revealed to her Alm's true identity at some point. Since Chancellor Desaix knew who Alm was, I imagine it wasn't a well kept secret anyway, but nothing in the game concretely proves Celica knew or didn't know. So it's hard to judge.

Our main characters need to stop having premonition dreams. Unless there's proper context and an established mystery for them, it's going to be just as left field as Batman having premonition dreams about Darkseid invading Earth in BvS. Even if the next game has a good setup for its dream, I'd still prefer if they'd stop doing this dumb trope. Because I'm going to be analyzing whatever the dream sequence was and odds are good my enjoyment of the plot will be harmed once I figure it out. Foreshadowing and showing a snippet of the ending are not the same thing.

[Armagon]

7 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

The second dream is more harmless. The only part of the dream that comes true is that Alm would eventually fight Rudolf. But the parts about Alm's friends all having been killed and him losing to Rudolf are a fabrication. I also like how Celica has no control over the events of the dream, since that's how people tend to have nightmares. There's still no reason for Celica to have such a vivid dream, however. My headcanon is that Mycen or Nomah revealed to her Alm's true identity at some point. Since Chancellor Desaix knew who Alm was, I imagine it wasn't a well kept secret anyway, but nothing in the game concretely proves Celica knew or didn't know. So it's hard to judge.

To be fair, Celica's dream happened in Gaiden.

Though i do agree that premonitions need to stop, at the very least, stop appearing at the beginning of the game. When you do a premonition at the start of a game, movie, anime, etc (or also, when they show something and then they go "three weeks earlier" or something like that) like that, it kinda makes the plot not as fun since you know from the start that everything's gonna lead up to that point.