Does IS care too much about new players and neglect long-time fans?

[Prince Endriu]

17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

While voicing your opinion is fine, it helps to suggest things that are actually feasible from a development or a marketing standpoint. Otherwise, you're just stuck in the limbo of wishful thinking where none of your opinions matter because they cannot ever actually be acted upon.

While more difficult daily missions would be nice for veteran players, they can be seen as unwelcoming for newer players who have nice rewards dangled in front of their faces with no real way to acquire them for a long time.

Mobile games are tricky due to the fact that events happen in real-time and you need to account for players who started playing both from the start and from days or weeks ago. Putting too much focus on newer players leaves your veteran players getting bored, but putting too much focus on veteran players leaves too much out of reach of newer or casual players who will feel locked out of shiny, new content and rewards.

Thats right. But as it is now, daily quests are catered towards everyone, even day one players can get all AA quest rewards. While its definitely OK to have easy quests around that everyone can get its also nice to have something around for seasoned players.

[shadowofchaos]

4 hours ago, Prince Endriu said:

Thats right. But as it is now, daily quests are catered towards everyone, even day one players can get all AA quest rewards. While its definitely OK to have easy quests around that everyone can get its also nice to have something around for seasoned players.

Training Tower 10 monotype no death quests?

????

Those take a ton of stamina and time if it's not horses.

I'm not sure what you want here.

[Prince Endriu]

30 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Training Tower 10 monotype no death quests?

????

Those take a ton of stamina and time if it's not horses.

I'm not sure what you want here.

Monotype?

[Lord_Grima]

33 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

Monotype?

"Clear Tenth Stratum of the Training Tower using only Infantry allies. All four allies must survive."

Repeat with armored, cavalry, or flying instead of Infantry.

[Prince Endriu]

3 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Training Tower 10 monotype no death quests?

????

Those take a ton of stamina and time if it's not horses.

I'm not sure what you want here.

What do you say about this one:

Pick a 4 unit team and perform a 7streak win in stratum10 with permadeath and no reset allowed.

All I am saying is that there is so much possibility for more diverse modes and quests. What has been going on so far is mostly lackluster and very often subject to critisizm. People critisized VG from the beginning and it got way better - not saying its a great mode or has no more room for improvement, though.

 

 

 

[Hilda]

13 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

What do you say about this one:

Pick a 4 unit team and perform a 7streak win in stratum10 with permadeath and no reset allowed.

All I am saying is that there is so much possibility for more diverse modes and quests. What has been going on so far is mostly lackluster and very often subject to critisizm. People critisized VG from the beginning and it got way better - not saying its a great mode or has no more room for improvement, though.

 

uh wut? the only reason people do VG is because of the rewards. VG is still trash and will remain trash as a gamemode.

[shadowofchaos]

18 minutes ago, Prince Endriu said:

What do you say about this one:

Pick a 4 unit team and perform a 7streak win in stratum10 with permadeath and no reset allowed.

A deathless streak (not to mention a counter keeping track of that) outside of arena via stratum 10 is asking to turn away new players.

You are designing an even more brutal condition for a quest moreso than the slog that is Lunatic 7 tempest trials.

Yes it's doable but design like that is literally only thinking of the hardcore.

I'm a semi-hardcore player, but that design is completely ignoring that I have no cell zones and play heroes DURING BREAKS.

Edited December 15, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Gebby]

21 hours ago, GinRei said:

Except they replace "new" content that older players want.  And older players get nearly nothing, if not nothing, from it.  While not malicious (as that would imply they're doing it specifically to cause harm to older players), it's definitely done knowing and not caring that older players gain nothing from it.

We consistently get new TTs, GHBs, BHBs, new units, seasonal units, and gauntlets. I'd say that we get a fair bit of new content. They can't always pump out new stuff and a lot of the times they're released, old events come with new quests. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Gebby

[Prince Endriu]

53 minutes ago, Hilda said:

uh wut? the only reason people do VG is because of the rewards. VG is still trash and will remain trash as a gamemode.

I dont like it either but it is less trash than before - how boring was it when you were on the winning team and almost never got a multiplier. It is better now. Yeah, its only about the rewards .

52 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

A deathless streak (not to mention a counter keeping track of that) outside of arena via stratum 10 is asking to turn away new players.

You are designing an even more brutal condition for a quest moreso than the slog that is Lunatic 7 tempest trials.

Yes it's doable but design like that is literally only thinking of the hardcore.

I'm a semi-hardcore player, but that design is completely ignoring that I have no cell zones and play heroes DURING BREAKS.

It was just an example. I guess new players dont expect to manage all quests right away.

I only play lunatic7. Pretty easy if you have 4 good teams at your disposal. When I started and didnt have those teams I played lunatic5 and didnt complain that I wasnt able to complete lunatic7. Squad assault or chain challenges - did them after about two or three months into the game -

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Hilda said:

uh wut? the only reason people do VG is because of the rewards. VG is still trash and will remain trash as a gamemode.

Your opinion.

I like listening to all the trash talk.

[GinRei]

2 hours ago, Gebby said:

We consistently get new TTs, GHBs, BHBs, new units, seasonal units, and gauntlets. I'd say that we get a fair bit of new content. They can't always pump out new stuff and a lot of the times they're released, old events come with new quests. 

As I said in the second part of my post, TT and VG are just grinds that you can auto-battle 99% of the time.  If it literally plays itself, can it really be called content?  You don't even have variable rewards to make it exciting (like, there's no chance that defeating the boss will randomly drop some badges or feathers or anything).  You just push a button and go do something else until it finishes itself.

We had Arvis in the past 3 months and nothing else as far as new GHB goes.  Before that it was consistent, but since then it's been the exact opposite.

Units are not content as it relates to this discussion.  If you have to get lucky or pay to "participate", it's not applicable to this topic.

[shadowofchaos]

2 hours ago, Prince Endriu said:

I only play lunatic7. Pretty easy if you have 4 good teams at your disposal. When I started and didnt have those teams I played lunatic5 and didnt complain that I wasnt able to complete lunatic7. Squad assault or chain challenges - did them after about two or three months into the game -

From all of the topics/suggestions you've posted on this forum, I have only ever seen you suggest improvements that would only benefit hardcore players that sit down and invest more than 5 minutes into a single session.

You haven't looked at the time/investment per sitting investment for people like... you know... me?

I have like 500 other things and 3 other gacha games getting my attention. Implementing a quest in which you cannot leave after one map unless it's specifically a mode that requires you to continuously beat maps looks ridiculous to me.

When you press a button to activate a map or a *MODE* that has a series of maps, you must implement the quests to complete in that single instance.

Edited December 15, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Prince Endriu]

21 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

From all of the topics/suggestions you've posted on this forum, I have only ever seen you suggest improvements that would only benefit hardcore players that sit down and invest more than 5 minutes into a single session.

You haven't looked at the time/investment per sitting investment for people like... you know... me?

I have like 500 other things and 3 other gacha games getting my attention. Implementing a quest in which you cannot leave after one map unless it's specifically a mode that requires you to continuously beat maps looks ridiculous to me.

When you press a button to activate a map or a *MODE* that has a series of maps, you must implement the quests to complete in that single instance.

 

Hmmm... 

Hardcore? Well, Like I said there should be quests for everybody.

I think you can actually exit and return to ongoing quests like TT - just exit the game - the game will remember where you left off.

[shadowofchaos]

2 hours ago, Prince Endriu said:

Hmmm... 

Hardcore? Well, Like I said there should be quests for everybody.

I think you can actually exit and return to ongoing quests like TT - just exit the game - the game will remember where you left off.

There *ARE* quests for everyone.

...You're not getting what I'm saying.

Implementing the quest flags that have to be done in a single chain without it being explicitly within the context of that *ONE* event to click o--- never mind. You're clearly not getting what I mean. Argh.

My question is have you played other gacha games?

The vibe I'm getting from you is you don't have experience with gacha games before and you don't see that artificially increasing the difficulty of a quest via what you suggest just sounds like there isn't enough catering to your specific type of player. You have to realize, that a middle ground has to be set.

Not "We have quests for new players and we have quests for hardcore players".

The middle ground is that someone in between those players can reasonably get all those quests distributing their time in between sessions WITHOUT committing to an entire investment of 15+ minutes and 35+ freaking stamina that a single death would make them frustrated with.

 

15 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

While more difficult daily missions would be nice for veteran players, they can be seen as unwelcoming for newer players who have nice rewards dangled in front of their faces with no real way to acquire them for a long time.

Mobile games are tricky due to the fact that events happen in real-time and you need to account for players who started playing both from the start and from days or weeks ago. Putting too much focus on newer players leaves your veteran players getting bored, but putting too much focus on veteran players leaves too much out of reach of newer or casual players who will feel locked out of shiny, new content and rewards.

He's said this to you like 3 times at least over the course of your different topics.

2 hours ago, Prince Endriu said:

I think you can actually exit and return to ongoing quests like TT - just exit the game - the game will remember where you left off.

I think there's some miscommunication here. The option to do different things by returning to the game at a different time means you have the freedom to accomplish those other tasks without getting tediously bored doing the same repetitive thing with the same repetitive team that is already level 40. Each person has their own goals with the game and has the ability to do the quests while doing those personal agendas. You are pretty much only thinking about that quest being good for your specific playstyle.

The "No death" condition during a chain has always been player implemented because people want their perfect/highest arena score.

No quest has there ever been that requires you to have zero deaths for more than one map. There is a REASON for that.

Edited December 16, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Vince777]

I feel things may be getting harder and harder for new players, actually.

Very strong units are increasingly locked behind 5* pulls and most easily accessible units have fallen off in effectiveness. 




 

[Prince Endriu]

9 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

There *ARE* quests for everyone.

...You're not getting what I'm saying.

Implementing the quest flags that have to be done in a single chain without it being explicitly within the context of that *ONE* event to click o--- never mind. You're clearly not getting what I mean. Argh.

My question is have you played other gacha games?

The vibe I'm getting from you is you don't have experience with gacha games before and you don't see that artificially increasing the difficulty of a quest via what you suggest just sounds like there isn't enough catering to your specific type of player. You have to realize, that a middle ground has to be set.

Not "We have quests for new players and we have quests for hardcore players".

The middle ground is that someone in between those players can reasonably get all those quests distributing their time in between sessions WITHOUT committing to an entire investment of 15+ minutes and 35+ freaking stamina that a single death would make them frustrated with.

 

He's said this to you like 3 times at least over the course of your different topics.

I think there's some miscommunication here. The option to do different things by returning to the game at a different time means you have the freedom to accomplish those other tasks without getting tediously bored doing the same repetitive thing with the same repetitive team that is already level 40. Each person has their own goals with the game and has the ability to do the quests while doing those personal agendas. You are pretty much only thinking about that quest being good for your specific playstyle.

The "No death" condition during a chain has always been player implemented because people want their perfect/highest arena score.

No quest has there ever been that requires you to have zero deaths for more than one map. There is a REASON for that.

No, I didnt play any other gacha games - not planning to.

Look, I dont want to argue with you. You have your point of having the game as much accessible and easy for short gaming sessions etc. And I never expected feh to be a game that you can play all day. Its just my opinion that quests could be more interesting and diverse, even on a daily basis.

 

1 hour ago, Vince777 said:

I feel things may be getting harder and harder for new players, actually.

Very strong units are increasingly locked behind 5* pulls and most easily accessible units have fallen off in effectiveness. 




 

In regard to meta and access to strong 5* units you are absolutely right. On the other hand I must admit IS has been doing a lot to make weaker units stronger.

[Othin]

Personally, I don't want challenging daily quests. I like how they're easy to do in just a few minutes per day with little fuss. Feeling pressured to repeat more than that every day would just get annoying.

I do think the challenge ceiling needs to be higher, though. I'm surprised they still haven't added Infernal to at least a few story maps.

[XRay]

I do not think they are catering too much to new players, and even if they are, I do not mind it either since I get whatever benefit new players get too.

3 hours ago, Othin said:

Personally, I don't want challenging daily quests. I like how they're easy to do in just a few minutes per day with little fuss. Feeling pressured to repeat more than that every day would just get annoying.

I agree with this. I enjoy curb stomping things more than overcoming challenges.

[Othin]

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not think they are catering too much to new players, and even if they are, I do not mind it either since I get whatever benefit new players get too.

I agree with this. I enjoy curb stomping things more than overcoming challenges.

I mean, I like overcoming challenges, but I don't like having to overcome the same challenge too often, or having just a short time limit for a tough challenge.

For a while I was tired of doing three Arena Assault battles every day, and that isn't even actually hard, just repetitive. Then I realized I could just play Beginner and auto-battle my way through.

Might start doing that for the daily Arena quests after getting enough points for the week too, now that I think about it. I'd been trying to get a lot of points on my daily Arena runs for medals, but by now I think I'm past the point of those being a limiting factor.

[Gebby]

21 hours ago, GinRei said:

As I said in the second part of my post, TT and VG are just grinds that you can auto-battle 99% of the time.  If it literally plays itself, can it really be called content?  You don't even have variable rewards to make it exciting (like, there's no chance that defeating the boss will randomly drop some badges or feathers or anything).  You just push a button and go do something else until it finishes itself.

I'd say the rewards from TT are enough to call them content, yeah, especially considering there's a (free!) new unit each time, barring the mini TT. VGs maybe not so much, but they're still something to do and come with quests to complete.

 

21 hours ago, GinRei said:

We had Arvis in the past 3 months and nothing else as far as new GHB goes.  Before that it was consistent, but since then it's been the exact opposite.

Units are not content as it relates to this discussion.  If you have to get lucky or pay to "participate", it's not applicable to this topic.

Arvis being the only new GHB recently is a fair point, but we did just get the 2.0 update. If that's not new content, then fuck, I don't know what is. We must be getting neglected really badly, thanks for opening my eyes to this.

New  units are definitely content considering they're essential to gameplay and at least a few people only play the game to collect units they like. Sure, they're made to make more money, but if they wanted to neglect older players and just milk newcomers they'd have half a dozen 'starter support' banners and only introduce new units every few months.

[shadowofchaos]

8 hours ago, Prince Endriu said:

Its just my opinion that quests could be more interesting and diverse, even on a daily basis.

 

My only point out of that whole thing is that the more challenging quest you suggested was a bad idea. Or at least my opinion that it is quite a bad idea as someone coming with a different perspective.

[Prince Endriu]

37 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

 

My only point out of that whole thing is that the more challenging quest you suggested was a bad idea. Or at least my opinion that it is quite a bad idea as someone coming with a different perspective.

Truth be told, these were spontaneous quest ideas - 

Funny thing is that there is a certain cycle for me. There is a point where I get annoyed with this game for whatever reason - then I come to the conclusion that I got too involved with it, taking it too serious. 

Its probably a gacha mechanic of its own - any other game that I play(ed) is different and never got me too much into it. Feh is an ongoing experience, playing it everyday - even if its just for the daily rewards gets you attached I guess. Maybe I should stop playing it? IDK.

[bottlegnomes]

Eh, not really. I mean my only two peeves with this game are the 5 star overcrowding and the lack of GHBs. I get where they're coming from with both, but more so with the GHBs. They're a decent bit of development--a new character from a rather limited pool that has to be interesting enough to stand out and a new map that's supposed to be particularly challenging but still doable--and they're almost certainly guaranteed less return since the banners are almost(?) always existing characters.

The 5 star pool, I'm a little less understanding of, but even still, it's not a huge deal. They want to make characters more interesting to keep people interested beyond just liking the characters and that tends to mean making them good. Making them good generally corresponds to upping rarity so they don't end up with 50 4 starts who are better than the majority of 5 stars. But still, I feel like they could stand to drop all the 4-5 starts to 4 stars only and drop some of the less impressive 5 star exclusives, like Alm, Eldigan (pretty please), Gray, Mist (I mean really), to 4 stars. That said, meh, it's not a huge deal.

To be completely honest, the thing I'm saltiest about is that Arvis wasn't an armored mage.

[Othin]

38 minutes ago, bottlegnomes said:

To be completely honest, the thing I'm saltiest about is that Arvis wasn't an armored mage.

Arvis was only armored as Old Arvis, who wouldn't fit with the map he was on or being associated with Sigurd's banner.

[bottlegnomes]

5 hours ago, Othin said:

Arvis was only armored as Old Arvis, who wouldn't fit with the map he was on or being associated with Sigurd's banner.

I'm not saying they should've made young Arvis armored and on the same map. I mean I wish they'd done old Arvis and had a map that corresponded to it. The TT was also right around that time and that was entirely centered on rescuing Julia which is what old Arvis was all about. So either would've been suitable. But really, that was to put in context how "strongly" I feel about my gripes in the previous post. That's the thing I'm saltiest about, and as far as salt levels, we're talking like spaghetti and sauce, not ramen.

Edited December 17, 2017 by bottlegnomes