What are your thoughts on dragons and Manaketes in Fire Emblem?

[Thane]

Happy New Year to everyone.

The question is in the title. By dragons and Manaketes I include all dragons, from Medeus to Kurthnaga to Anankos. What do you think about the role of dragons in the series, do you think they're done well, do you think they should remain as they are, et cetera.

Most importantly, and I don't believe this opinion is a very controversial one, I'm very tired of the villains being dragons, especially crazed ones responsible for everything in the conflict whom you can kill without feeling any guilt or sadness at all. It also allows for the conflict to be ended nicely and without any of that unnecessary drama with a nice little ribbon tying it all together, which I find a little too easy of an ending.

However, I also believe that we need a break from dragons in general. There are so many similarities between dragons across the series, like how they used to be more common until they met their downfall/exiled themselves/what have you, either due to the stupidity of humanity or their inevitable craziness. They take human form for some reason, and often come out as young girls, which gets very tiring in the long run. I don't see much of a point in including dragons in new worlds if they're primarily going to serve the same function as in other installments. I also believe there's an argument to be made that dragons are just very common in video games period, and that avoiding them for a while would be refreshing if nothing else.

Am I being too pessimistic here, or do you share my opinions?

[Magical Glace]

They're okay, I don't mind them necessarily, but it'd also be nice to have games without them too.

I guess you can say I'm neutral on the matter.

[Anacybele]

I don't like manaketes. They're boring and the playable ones are almost always little girls. They need more variety.

Now the dragon laguz in Tellius are super cool. Their designs are more varied, and their dragon forms are even way cooler looking than manaketes imo. Kurthnaga is my favorite. The only thing is that some of them, most specifically Gareth, got really snubbed of development and actual character. I think Gareth only has like three total lines out of both Tellius games! It doesn't help though, that the dragon laguz always join the playable party late.

[Slumber]

At this point, I think dragons are basically core to FE's identity. They're been in every game in some fashion. FE5 is the closest we got to not having any since none actually show up, but the plot still revolves around you trying to fight a cult leader who is part of a cult dedicated to bringing an evil dragon back. And Ced, Leif, Altenna, Dairmuid, Saias, Fergus, Nanna, Mareeta and Galzus all have dragon blood flowing through their veins.

I'm not a huge fan of them being the ultimate focus of the plots in most games, though. It's a bit tiring, and I liked that Tellius made bigger threats than dragons the main antagonists. But I think having dragons/manaketes(Whether it be in the lore or playable) is more "Fire Emblem" than even blue haired lords.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Slumber

[Strullemia]

I don't mind the Dragons/Manaketes. I even quite like them and the lore around them (especially the archaenea and Tellius ones). 

That being said, I too would prefer if we don't have another dragon villain in future FE games at least. I would also love to see a dragon kingdom that is on good terms with another human kingdom as opposed to an almost extinct one or one that is neutral towards human problems.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Hekselka

[Doof]

I love dragons! So, no, I don't want them gone. That being said, we COULD use some variety. If we have Manaketes again, we should have some male ones. Tellius' dragons and Corrin and Kana were steps in the right direction but the number of little girls still outnumber the male dragons so we could use some more.\

I also think they should make the final dragon boss, if it must be used, more interesting. Give them more depth, motivations, reasons for their actions besides "rawr degeneration = evil". Unpopular opinion, but Anankos was a good villain... after the DLC expanded on him as a tragic figure but it still could be a lot better.

But yeah, dragons should stay. They should just do something different than the same tired old song with them. Shapeshifters are hella cool.

[eclipse]

I'd rather BE the dragon kingdom, fighting against everyone else.  But I'm odd like that!

EDIT: 'cause we're always the humans.  And that is far more boring IMO.

Edited December 31, 2017 by eclipse

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't object to dragons per se but I agree with two particular criticisms:

1. World-destroying, half-mad dragon gods are incredibly overdone villains, and not very compelling ones. (Medeus, Duma, Grima, Anankos)

2. Too many playable dragons fall in this weird and unpleasantly pandery archetype of supposedly godlike beings who take the form of a young female child and cling to the male lead like a lost puppy. (Y Tiki, Fae, Myrrh)

I'd like to see those tropes laid to rest or have a significant twist if they do reappear.

[Thane]

Just now, eclipse said:

I'd rather BE the dragon kingdom, fighting against everyone else.  But I'm odd like that!

Well, I would enjoy switching up the formula a bit, so why not? That could be cool.

Can we get human kids who talk about their short lives as well? Just for the hell of it. 

[Wuzzy]

I like Manaketes (also y'all forgetting the best Manakete Bantu), but I'd rather have a game where the primary antagonist isn't a dragon. Better yet, have the main character be a manakete (kinda like Corrin I guess)

Edited December 31, 2017 by Lunarly

[eclipse]

Just now, Thane said:

Well, I would enjoy switching up the formula a bit, so why not? That could be cool.

Can we get human kids who talk about their short lives as well? Just for the hell of it. 

Perhaps the plot line is that lifespans are simultaneously shortening and accelerating all over the place (think human teenagers in three years, and elderly in 10), and since dragons have the longest lives, it's up to them to figure it out before the other races go extinct.  Or something.

[NSSKG151]

I'm okay with dragons/manaketes in Fire Emblem. I feel like a Fire Emblem game not having dragons would be like a Zelda game not having fairies/goddesses or a main Mario game not having the Koopa Troop involved. That said I wouldn't mind them changing the role of how dragons/manaketes are used in the story setting. Especially since it is kind of tiring to see the final boss of almost every FE game be an insane, evil dragon god which is why I kind of liked Fates:Conquest's final boss being an archer of things even though an evil dragon was involved in the background.

[IfIHadToPickADude]

I just want a Fire Emblem where the dragons aren't the main cause of problems. Non-human beings aren't always the main cause of problems, it's humans. Imagine a FE where the Empire is invading other countries because the ruler is like Napoleon and wants spread an idea or their religion etc. etc. This could be an interesting kind of conflict instead of the "oh no, this insane dragon wants to kill us all" thing we've seen before.

In other words, let's not have another supernatural being/dragon as the main antagonist. 

[Shadow Mir]

At this point, I'd say dragons are pretty much rooted into the core identity of FE to the point where dragons not showing up in a FE game is like a Zelda game where the Triforce is irrelevant (that being said, there is a Zelda game where the Triforce doesn't get any mention - but it takes place in a dream world, which is implied in the title).

Edited December 31, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Water Mage]

Actually, I always thought that it would be interesting if they made you think that the main villain was the dragon, only for the dragon to be upstaged by the completely human villain. That would be a nice twist. I feel that it’s something that Arvis would do. In fact, I would love to see a final boss who isn’t mad or is evil incarnate, they could be villains like Arvis or Lyon, who isn’t a bad person deep down, and you even pity them in the end. I think IS is afraid of making sympathetic villains. It would explain why Takumi’s antagonism was cranked up in Conquest, since Takumi was technically one of the main villains in Conquest, and IS didn’t want you feeling bad for him.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Water Mage

[Dark Holy Elf]

IS has made plenty of main villains who are at least partly sympathetic: Zephiel, Lyon, Sephiran for instance. So it's not like they're unwilling to make 'em, at least historically. They've had a pretty long run without 'em now though, unless you find Anankos sympathetic which I definitely do not.

[Etrurian emperor]

I really don't like it how all the playable dragons are little girls. Its boring and while it may have been funny once to have a little girl posses a huge dragon form it now just devalues the power of dragons and its getting very stale.

There also isn't any subtype of loli left to explore so adding more loli dragons would just lead to cloning. We already got the innocent loli, the bratty one, the shy one and the serious one. 

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

IS has made plenty of main villains who are at least partly sympathetic: Zephiel, Lyon, Sephiran for instance. So it's not like they're unwilling to make 'em, at least historically. They've had a pretty long run without 'em now though, unless you find Anankos sympathetic which I definitely do not.

And I'd say they crapped the bed on two of those instances (hint: they're from GBA games).

[Dark Holy Elf]

They've crapped the bed with a lot of their villains, sympathetic or not; that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't try to make sympathetic villains in the future.

(I like Lyon and Zephiel better than the average FE main villain, but this isn't really the place for that debate.)

[Shadow Mir]

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

They've crapped the bed with a lot of their villains, sympathetic or not; that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't try to make sympathetic villains in the future.

(I like Lyon and Zephiel better than the average FE main villain, but this isn't really the place for that debate.)

I'm not saying they shouldn't - I just think Lyon and Zephiel both set the bar very low for supposedly tragic villains, especially the former, as the writing just isn't there to make him out to be the type of villain I'd feel sorry for...

[saisymbolic]

Don't particularly mind dragons, but I do agree there needs to be some variety to their roles in the series.

[BrandedCharmer93]

I feel that dragons are a staple of the series and shouldn't be removed.

That being said, I'd love more variation in their roles. I absolutely love the Laguz from Tellius, they break away from the idea that all dragons are either shy little girls or maniacal evil overlords.

What if we had an alternate Elibe where the dragons won The Scouring and the prominent race was dragons? And you and your dragon friends happened upon a human child and you keep it as a secret pet and it's basically Airbud but with saving the world instead of basketball (or keep basketball in it what do I care...)

[Icelerate]

Kurthnaga is my 3rd favourite character from the series and his father Deghinsea is nearly top 5. 

[X-Naut]

Just gonna reiterate what I said on the Reddit version: I think dragons are under-explored and would love to see a game that includes dragons at their prime. No human form, no mental degeneracy, no dragonstones needed; we encounter big scaly fire-breathers with sapience on par with the humans, both as friend and foe.

[Armagon]

Dragons are pretty much a staple in the series. That said, their roles and lore do need to be changed up. We also need more playable male Manaketes besides Bantu and no, M!Corrin and M!Kana don't count. That also being said, i do find it curious that a lot of people are saying that female Manaketes are being overused. Throughout the currently 15 games, we have

• Tiki in the Archanea games+Awakening
• Fae in Binding Blade
• Myrhh in Sacred Stones
• Nagi in the Archanea remakes
• Nowi and Nah in Awakening

The Dragon Laguz, Corrin and Kana are their own thing which is why i'm not including them. Ninian and Sophia are also female Manaketes, but the former only transforms in the story and the latter doesn't transform at all, which is why i'm also not including them.  F!Morgan isn't canonically a Manakete.

The following is the list of FE games and the bolded ones are the ones that contain our "dragon lolis".

• FE1/11
• FE2/15
• FE3/12
• FE4
• FE5
• FE6
• FE7
• FE8
• FE9
• FE10
• FE13
• FE14

By looking at the data, we only have six "dragon lolis" and they only appear in five games, with two of them being adults (Awakening Tiki and Nagi) and one of them is non-canon in the game in the first game she appears in (Nagi). There's actually more games where we don't have "dragon lolis". So yeah, i'm gonna have to disagree about the "dragon lolis" being overused (again, Dragon Laguz, Corrin and Kana are their own thing and F!Morgan canonically isn't a Manakete). I think the reason people feel they are overused is because Awakening gave us two "dragon lolis"+Tiki+F!Morgan if you married any of the Manaketes in Awakening so it gave the false impression that female Manaketes are overused. Yes, most Manaketes are female, but they aren't as overused as people make them out to be.

I definitely agree on the villains though. The dragon being the final boss is actually overused. Only FE5, 8, and the Tellius games don't have dragons that are the final boss. Technically FE4 too but Julius was being possessed by a dragon so it counts imo.