I finally realized something: Why I find Frederick's flaws so endearing.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I know, "Ana's going on about Frederick again? Ugh" is probably the reaction of some of you to this. And I get that. I do bring him (and Ike) up a lot sometimes. Feel free to completely ignore this and move on if you don't want to hear anything about Frederick.

Though this is why I want to make this short and sweet and not drag it out much. I just wanted to throw this out there. :P

For the longest time, I've liked pretty much everything about Frederick. Even his flaws. His doting, his over-protectiveness, his extreme ways of doing some of his duties. But we all know that, so moving on. Also for the longest time, I wasn't sure why I found his flaws so endearing. I wouldn't mind a guy clearing my path for me or cleaning everything until it shone super bright, sure.

But that's just it. A GUY. Frederick is a man. And a tough manly hunky muscular one at that. You actually tend to see this kind of behavior out of a woman more often. A motherly figure, perhaps an older woman, sometimes akin to a grandma. Camilla is even kind of an example of this, though maybe a creepy one.

But a man acting that way? I don't believe I've ever really seen this much, if at all. Especially in medieval times, men were supposed to do the fighting and tough work. Frederick though, he cleans, cooks, KNITS AND SEWS. Women ALWAYS did those things in that period. Always. Men really never did. Frederick defies the typical medieval standards for his status and even sort of in general. That's why I find his flaws so endearing! Because you don't normally see these things out of someone like him. I even love the fact that he knits and sews! He's so cool to do those things and enjoy them! These things make him stand out a bit.

There are probably some other male characters who are doting and motherly in stuff out there, but I really doubt they're as common as the female equivalent. And I don't think FE has another male like that at all (closest would be Oscar, I believe, but he's not over the top about it or anything. He mainly just cooks anyway. Though I could be wrong, I haven't played every game). And that's all I have to say.

What do you think? I know some people don't like Frederick for his bad habits, as they can seem over the top. Some find it amusing (I do too lol). Does this shed a bit of a new light on him for you, even? Not that it really matters, I'm just curious and glad I came to this realization myself. It only deepens my love for him!

Edited July 24, 2018 by Anacybele

[Dragoncat]

Holy crap you're right. I don't think there are any other male FE characters, or male characters in anything period that I've seen, who do a lot of housework and are still kinda tough guys. Oscar is the closest though, yeah.

Plus you've told me you think he's an Aspie like us, so there's that.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, Oscar is the closet, but he's not super doting or real overprotective like Frederick. Frederick is male nanny to the extreme. :P

And yeah, that too.

[Acacia Sgt]

An interesting observation. Although, I don't really see much specialness to it. Frederick, by his devotion, is simply all the servant roles rolled into one person. There were male tailors and chefs back in the day, so him being able to do those things is not really that odd. Much less so in a fictional setting unbound by our history.

Realistictly, or at least when not on the field, Frederick strikes me as the one that would be in charge of the servants. Or at least the male ones. Then again, his devotion also makes me think he'd be there helping the footmen, not just directing them.

[Anacybele]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

An interesting observation. Although, I don't really see much specialness to it. Frederick, by his devotion, is simply all the servant roles rolled into one person. There were male tailors and chefs back in the day, so him being able to do those things is not really that odd. Much less so in a fictional setting unbound by our history.

Realistictly, or at least when not on the field, Frederick strikes me as the one that would be in charge of the servants. Or at least the male ones. Then again, his devotion also makes me think he'd be there helping the footmen, not just directing them.

There were? Maybe what I was taught about medieval history and even more recent history isn't entirely accurate. I always saw depictions of women being the one to cook, clean, and make clothes while men were soldiers, built buildings, and maybe were also merchants.

Also, it isn't really just that Frederick is a man, it's also the kind of man he is, as I pointed out. Manly, strong, tough. He's built for hard/tough work. Yet he also does those female-oriented jobs I mentioned too. The guys that would be chefs and tailors wouldn't be so heavily built.

So there is still some specialness to Frederick's habits, to a degree.

But yeah, him having all servant roles rolled into him is also what I admire about him. He can do so much and with a smile on his face that it's just amazing and fascinating to me. :P

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

There were? Maybe what I was taught about medieval history and even more recent history isn't entirely accurate. I always saw depictions of women being the one to cook, clean, and make clothes while men were soldiers, built buildings, and maybe were also merchants.

Also, it isn't really just that Frederick is a man, it's also the kind of man he is, as I pointed out. Manly, strong, tough. He's built for hard/tough work. Yet he also does those female-oriented jobs I mentioned too. The guys that would be chefs and tailors wouldn't be so heavily built.

So there is still some specialness to Frederick's habits, to a degree.

But yeah, him having all servant roles rolled into him is also what I admire about him. He can do so much and with a smile on his face that it's just amazing and fascinating to me. :P

Yes, women predominantly had those roles, but there was still a significant number of men, and usually in higher rankings. For example, in a castle, the kitchen staff could be predominantly women, but there would be a male head chef as their boss. I can only conceed on the cleaning part, since I don't think there was much male prescence there. The cleaning staff was under the jurisdiction of the houskeeper, the lead female servant, and the staff itself would also be female.

That's certainly true. Frederick is also a bodyguard, after all.

[The Roger The Paladin]

2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yes, women predominantly had those roles, but there was still a significant number of men, and usually in higher rankings. For example, in a castle, the kitchen staff could be predominantly women, but there would be a male head chef as their boss. I can only conceed on the cleaning part, since I don't think there was much male prescence there. The cleaning staff was under the jurisdiction of the houskeeper, the lead female servant, and the staff itself would also be female.

That's certainly true. Frederick is also a bodyguard, after all.

Also thinking on the people not matching the traditional roles, in both England and Holland during the middle ages women pretty much ran the alcohol industry. Not exactly what one would expect.
http://www.medievalists.net/2013/05/female-brewers-in-holland-and-england/

[Anacybele]

7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yes, women predominantly had those roles, but there was still a significant number of men, and usually in higher rankings. For example, in a castle, the kitchen staff could be predominantly women, but there would be a male head chef as their boss. I can only conceed on the cleaning part, since I don't think there was much male prescence there. The cleaning staff was under the jurisdiction of the houskeeper, the lead female servant, and the staff itself would also be female.

That's certainly true. Frederick is also a bodyguard, after all.

Ah, I see.

Yep, exactly! He even has the heavy armor to show it.

[Tediz64]

I think because he was popular with a few people they even made Joker/Jacob based off his role. A super doting male Butler. Maybe not stacked with muscle like Frederick but he got the qualities. He loves to cook, clean, mend clothes, and pretty much anything. All for his one and only master Corrin. His back story explains why he goes to extremes for Corrin since Corrin was first to be kind to him and acknowledge him. Various other reasons but yup, he kinda is modeled after Frederick. Extreme loyalty. Plus Heroes has shown him have have some muscle but not alot like Frederick (referring to his swim suits) I was going to mention something else but once I started typing I forgot 

Side note: still haven't remembered what I was thinking but what I have beef with is that 30 max Res as a Great Knight. I'd love him if only it went to like 40 or something. On Fire Emblem Warriors they also make him have shit Res and that bothers me so much. But he is like my top 10 units in that FE:W (out of the 32 units)

Edited July 24, 2018 by Tediz64

[ChickenWings]

Basically, real men wear pink. Cool!

[Anacybele]

11 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

I think because he was popular with a few people they even made Joker/Jacob based off his role. A super doting male Butler. Maybe not stacked with muscle like Frederick but he got the qualities. He loves to cook, clean, mend clothes, and pretty much anything. All for his one and only master Corrin. His back story explains why he goes to extremes for Corrin since Corrin was first to be kind to him and acknowledge him. Various other reasons but yup, he kinda is modeled after Frederick. Extreme loyalty. Plus Heroes has shown him have have some muscle but not alot like Frederick (referring to his swim suits) I was going to mention something else but once I started typing I forgot 

Side note: still haven't remembered what I was thinking but what I have beef with is that 30 max Res as a Great Knight. I'd love him if only it went to like 40 or something. On Fire Emblem Warriors they also make him have shit Res and that bothers me so much. But he is like my top 10 units in that FE:W (out of the 32 units)

Jakob is somewhat like him, but he's more of an ass to others and his doting isn't put as out there or anything. Rather than shown, like with Frederick, it feels more like we're just told with Jakob. With Frederick, we get to see that he made naked Chrom posters and see that he picks up pebbles, etc. With Jakob, I don't remember seeing much of this, only getting told that he kinda dotes. Camilla's doting is what we seem to see more often. :/ The only time I ever saw much of Jakob's "doting" was a conversation with, of course, Frederick in Before Awakening. And even then, he just tells that he did this and that for Corrin. We're shown many times how Frederick is extreme. But maybe I haven't seen enough of Jakob's supports?

And even still, despite that Jakob has the cavalier line in his reclass options, he's not a knight. He's a butler. He doesn't have as many roles as Frederick does no matter what. Frederick just wins in this battle by default due to that. That conversation even kind of implies that he does Jakob's role better than Jakob. lol

I like Jakob, don't get me wrong, I just feel like he wasn't done quite as well as Frederick, though he does seem to be inspired by him. And I'll give you that we at least get a reason for Jakob's behavior. Frederick...yeah, we actually don't ever find out much of why he behaves the way he does. I like to theorize on that, but nothing is canon, unfortunately.

Frederick never struck me as popular though. Just "there" for people. As in, nobody likes him a lot, but nobody dislikes him either. He's just there.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

His personality doesn't seem that far beyond a butler archetype; granted that's not something the series really had until Fates and the idea to include it probably stemmed from Fredrick's writing, as Beyond Awakening makes no attempt to hide.

[Anacybele]

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

His personality doesn't seem that far beyond a butler archetype; granted that's not something the series really had until Fates and the idea to include it probably stemmed from Fredrick's writing, as Beyond Awakening makes no attempt to hide.

I always thought of it more as the doting overprotective nanny archtype though, and that's more often a female archtype than a male, which is why I was saying Frederick felt rather unique in his flaws.

[Laura]

yasss kween of going gender stereotypes

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Anacybele said:

I always thought of it more as the doting overprotective nanny archtype though, and that's more often a female archtype than a male, which is why I was saying Frederick felt rather unique in his flaws.

He doesn't really act that way from a sense of doting affection though (although it's clear he does love Chrom a great deal). He treats it like a job and a sense of duty as something he can take pride in. To frame it another way, he's much more similar to Jackob than Camilla.

[Anacybele]

33 minutes ago, Jotari said:

He doesn't really act that way from a sense of doting affection though (although it's clear he does love Chrom a great deal). He treats it like a job and a sense of duty as something he can take pride in. To frame it another way, he's much more similar to Jackob than Camilla.

He muffles Chrom's sneezes with his own handmade mufflers and scarves, and he offers to have his horse warm Lissa up when she's cold. And he invented a window mechanism that has it open a little when it's too warm and close when it's too cold. He makes sure Chrom and Lissa eat well and healthy. Sounds like nannying to me. Frederick does treat it as a sense of duty, but still.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Anacybele

[omegaxis1]

14 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

He muffles Chrom's sneezes with his own handmade mufflers and scarves, and he offers to have his horse warm Lissa up when she's cold. And he invented a window mechanism that has it open a little when it's too warm and close when it's too cold. He makes sure Chrom and Lissa eat well and healthy. Sounds like nannying to me. Frederick does treat it as a sense of duty, but still.

Frederick takes his job seriously. Too seriously, in fact. The phrase, "crossing the line" and "going too far" does not exist when it comes to caring for his liege. 

However, Frederick does hold affection and does genuinely care for Chrom and Lissa, as Frederick says this to Chrom in the Walhart Paralogue:

Quote

Chrom: Sorry. Just thinking out loud. You know, honestly I'm a bit jealous of Walhart. He stands for strength above all things. He has no regrets, no doubts. He's a juggernaut that charges forward and mows down whatever gets in his way. I'm...not like that. My steps are often plagued with question and worry.

Frederick: Perhaps such emotions are part and parcel of your path, milord. Not obstacles to it.

Chrom: How do you mean?

Frederick: The doubtless man's path is straight, but not always true. A juggernaut does not pause to correct trajectory. It merely presses on. But by stopping, doubting, and occasionally doubling back, you keep a truer course. I could not serve a conqueror, milord. And I pray you not think prudence a flaw.

He serves Chrom because he truly believes that Chrom is the best leader to serve. He would never serve a man like Walhart.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Frederick takes his job seriously. Too seriously, in fact. The phrase, "crossing the line" and "going too far" does not exist when it comes to caring for his liege. 

However, Frederick does hold affection and does genuinely care for Chrom and Lissa, as Frederick says this to Chrom in the Walhart Paralogue:

He serves Chrom because he truly believes that Chrom is the best leader to serve. He would never serve a man like Walhart.

Well yeah, I figured all that. I mean, one reason I see Frederick as possibly being an Aspie is that he doesn't seem to realize how some might interpret said affections and actions. Camilla even mistook it for actual love in Warriors lol. Frederick of course denied it, and rather uncomfortably. :P

Edited July 26, 2018 by Anacybele

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

He muffles Chrom's sneezes with his own handmade mufflers and scarves, and he offers to have his horse warm Lissa up when she's cold. And he invented a window mechanism that has it open a little when it's too warm and close when it's too cold. He makes sure Chrom and Lissa eat well and healthy. Sounds like nannying to me. Frederick does treat it as a sense of duty, but still.

I don't deny that, but when it comes to characters, I guess I see attitude as more important than actions. And when it comes to attitude, Fredrick certainly feels more butlerish than nannyish.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Jotari

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't deny that, but when it comes to characters, I guess I see attitude as more important than actions. And when it comes to attitude, Fredrick certainly feels more butlerish than nannyish.

Yeah, I suppose you could look at it that way too.

[Landmaster]

Since when does Frederick have flaws, mans is PERFECT

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Landmaster said:

Since when does Frederick have flaws, mans is PERFECT

Mans is? Well we can certainly say your grammar isn't :p

[Anacybele]

Bad grammar maybe, but I appreciate any love for our favorite Freddy Bear. :)

[Light Strategist]

On 26/07/2018 at 3:06 AM, Anacybele said:

He muffles Chrom's sneezes with his own handmade mufflers and scarves, and he offers to have his horse warm Lissa up when she's cold. And he invented a window mechanism that has it open a little when it's too warm and close when it's too cold. He makes sure Chrom and Lissa eat well and healthy. Sounds like nannying to me. Frederick does treat it as a sense of duty, but still.

I'm fairly sure that nothing was said about there being a mechanism and on that note, I think Luigizilla puts it best.

[Anacybele]

2 hours ago, Light Strategist said:

I'm fairly sure that nothing was said about there being a mechanism and on that note, I think Luigizilla puts it best.

Yeah there was, go see Frederick's conversation with Jakob in the Before Awakening DLC in Fates. Frederick says he "engineered" it so there has to be some kind of mechanism.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Anacybele