Ice Dragon Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, XRay said: However, I agree with you that increasing BST is unnecessary, stupid, and lazy, but I will give them a pass for attempting to make ponies less dominant in the meta. Increasing stat totals to their current value is something I think was good for the meta and ultimately the correct decision. One of the problems with the previous meta was that it was way too easy to one-round kill anything and everything with Brave, Firesweep, and Litrblade weapons. Allowing units to have more stats allows the designers to allot more points to defensive stats to create stronger walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Increasing stat totals to their current value is something I think was good for the meta and ultimately the correct decision. One of the problems with the previous meta was that it was way too easy to one-round kill anything and everything with Brave, Firesweep, and Litrblade weapons. Allowing units to have more stats allows the designers to allot more points to defensive stats to create stronger walls. I am not really sure how to explain it, but the way they did it just rubs me the wrong way. I understand their intent and reasoning, but just flat out increasing BST seems... inelegant? Trenches, Fort Tiles, Weapon Refinery, new skills, etc. are all stuff I am fine with, but BST increase just does not seem right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewyn Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said: And you have proof of the word's etymology? And regardless, it doesn't matter if it started from gamer slang or gamer academics. The fact of the matter is that it is now a well-defined technical term. In fact, the Hearthstone wiki has a really good article on it. What's the point of paying a few hundred for a meal at a fancy restaurant when it's just going to get shit out into the toilet the next day? What about going to the movie theater to watch a movie? A Caribbean cruise? None of those have lasting tangible value, but people pay for them because they give an amount of enjoyment deemed worth it for the cost. 800-1000 USD on average. Plus a bunch of pity breakers and skill fodder and a mountain of feathers. 1. I mean hearthstone wiki, I can't call it a well defined technical term this isn't the Webster Dictionary, and people throw out the '"power creep" in many different ways cause there is no clear definition and it means different things to different people. 2. Well you spend money for fancy food, you spend money to watch a film, or go on a cruise. In gacha you spend money to pull the slot machine. A better comparison is well a slot machine, but at least with that you can actually win money. 3. 1000 USD is still a lot. I mean how many AAA video games can you buy with that? Like 16. You can buy the next 16 main Fire Emblem games or get a +10 gacha unit in a mobile FE game. 38 minutes ago, XRay said: I would not call it stupid or lazy depending on how they do it. If they kept BST formula the same, I am perfectly fine with them releasing new stat distributions that may make older stat distributions obsolete. However, I agree with you that increasing BST is unnecessary, stupid, and lazy, but I will give them a pass for attempting to make ponies less dominant in the meta. Well, people can literally try... We actually do not know that for sure. Without access to their detailed financial data and maybe some experiments, there is no way to confirm the hypothesis. My big problem is the BST formula hasn't been the same they have been gradually increasing it. Not only have they been making stat spreads more min maxed, they have raised it over time as well. We don't know for sure, but it seems very likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Lewyn said: My big problem is the BST formula hasn't been the same they have been gradually increasing it. Not only have they been making stat spreads more min maxed, they have raised it over time as well. BST formulas are static and they do not increase over time, outside of the change from gen I and gen II (and I guess Sigurd/Brave Hero units). Stat spreads getting more min-maxed is perfectly fine. It is not unreasonable for players to expect units with better stat distribution to eventually come along, especially with the stat formula being common knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Lewyn said: I mean hearthstone wiki Did you even bother to follow the link and actually read the article before trying to blow it off like that? Perhaps you could actually come up with a proper rebuttal to the content of the article instead of just "Pshh, Hearthstone wiki. Haha." 40 minutes ago, Lewyn said: I can't call it a well defined technical term this isn't the Webster Dictionary Well, it's clear you don't have any idea how dictionaries work, then. 40 minutes ago, Lewyn said: and people throw out the '"power creep" in many different ways cause there is no clear definition and it means different things to different people. There is a clear definition for "power creep" that has been documented by multiple experts in the field. If you are unfamiliar with it, how about you take the time to educate yourself. 40 minutes ago, Lewyn said: Well you spend money for fancy food, you spend money to watch a film, or go on a cruise. In gacha you spend money to pull the slot machine. A better comparison is well a slot machine, but at least with that you can actually win money. So how is fancy food, a film, or a cruise any better than a pretty face on your phone? Different people value different things. I, for example, really don't give a crap about fancy food or cruises and consider money spent on those to be wasted. 40 minutes ago, Lewyn said: 1000 USD is still a lot. I mean how many AAA video games can you buy with that? Like 16. You can buy the next 16 main Fire Emblem games or get a +10 gacha unit in a mobile FE game. That assumes the person you're talking to actually cares about AAA games. Hint: I don't. Buying 16 AAA games is a waste of my money. I don't have enough free time to play that many games. 40 minutes ago, Lewyn said: My big problem is the BST formula hasn't been the same they have been gradually increasing it. Not only have they been making stat spreads more min maxed, they have raised it over time as well. There has been no gradual increase. Stats increased from Gen 1 to Gen 2 in one discrete step. Do your research. 43 minutes ago, XRay said: I am not really sure how to explain it, but the way they did it just rubs me the wrong way. I understand their intent and reasoning, but just flat out increasing BST seems... inelegant? Trenches, Fort Tiles, Weapon Refinery, new skills, etc. are all stuff I am fine with, but BST increase just does not seem right. With the current game mechanics, the alternative to raising stats is to implement stronger skills, most likely weapons. You'd end up having to implement thinks like Slaying Berkut's Lance or Wo Safeguard in order to provide the defensive boosts without severely restricting weapon diversity. You could add more terrain options, but those would end up having the issue of being more easily exploitable for the player than the AI rather than benefiting both sides more equally. Edited July 28, 2018 by Ice Dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hey guys, remember when powercreep never happened? Me neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Junkhead said: Hey guys, remember when powercreep never happened? Me neither. Not sure how that's really power creep when it's just a variant of Drive that's useless when against melee enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: Not sure how that's really power creep when it's just a variant of Drive that's useless when against melee enemies. That's like saying Distant Def sucks because of having to choose between it and Close Def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Junkhead said: That's like saying Distant Def sucks because of having to choose between it and Close Def. Who ever said it sucked? I simply said it's not power creep. Steady Stance, Warding Stance, Distant Def, and Close Def all serve different purposes. Distant Guard is literally just the Distant Def version of Drive Def and Drive Res, but with 1 extra point of each defensive stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usana Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Yeah this doesn't much strike me as power creep. Now if it gave the full +6? Then you might be able to convince me. But as it is it is following the standard 'Drive formula' or whatever you want to call it. Give the buff two range, but knock it down 1 step. I mean in general the specific Wards are better. The only real advantage this has over Ward X is that it isn't limited to one move type, but it pays for that by being limited by foe's weapon type. Seems fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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