Is Atelier for girls

[Johann]

1 hour ago, Edgelord said:

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Since I have a chance to sit down and watch, I believe I have seen this video before. This is based on a murky over four year old mess at this point, so I probably shouldn't even bother, but I'll try my best and then shut up about this shit.

0:22 He just starts out with a really dumb argument. Anti-GG is a group that is actively involved in disagreements with GG. It was never just "everyone else". This is like me being part of a political movement, and then claiming that everyone who is neutral is still anti my movement. It makes no sense.

He then goes on at 0:45 to talk about anti-feminists. Clearly, he can distinguish between being neutral to the concept of feminism, a feminist yourself, or an anti-feminist. Yet he can't for GG.

1:00 For what it's worth, the FBI investigated claims of GG harassment and found that there was "absolutely no" basis for the claims.

1:10 This is mostly fair. I believe the latter Swat incident was one that the board /baph/ specifically did for the purposes of causing as much chaos as they could, because they ended up putting up the dox of GG members as well. He actually mentions this board later, but construes it as being the same and as part of the same thing, when they are evidently not (12:57)

Of course, Innuendo also omits the public figures that supported Gamergate and the abuse they got. Totalbiscuit tepidly supported it (and I would say even moved away from it eventually), but he still got people celebrating his death including an ex-Bioware dev years later not to mention all the shit he got at the time. Boogie tried to be diplomatic, but ended up getting shit on for giving the slightest foot to "those" people. We could go on but there's no real need to. He ignores any harassment against these people because it is not convenient and the general combative attitude of those against it (not surprising, but ignored nonetheless).

1:32 So then he comes to his portrayal of an Angry Jack character. This is pretty genius on his end, because he knows this is a great narrative tool. But when it comes down to it, most groups can be abscribed to this character. You could easily do so for religious or political positions. This is to categorise people into two ways: people who are evil, or people who are secretely evil, but don't want to appear evil, i.e an act of demonisation. You can only be good if you're on my side. Well, at first his portrayal of this character doesn't start out in this way, for he remains somewhat reasonable through the opening part of the video. He said that most of his time was spent claiming he's not like those destructive folks. Well, personally, I did not feel a need to do this more than briefly and infrequently, but it would have been like that for most if the discussion was not constantly being whisked away by other people constantly telling GG to disavow this and that, or apologise, or whatever else.

I can contort this character on my own end to talk about a position I disagree with and their own "Jacks", should I feel inclined to. Actually, it reminds me of the same sort of argument that fundamentalists often use on athiests. Something I think he would not be so keen on. This character seems to be the main thing that he focuses on in this video (and this series in general, it seems) but it is inherently flawed. I wonder how much of this is meant to be an obvious generalisation.

~2:00 He keeps pointing towards /pol/ as the origin but the largest community for GG was on reddit under KotakuInAction, one of the subreddits that was set up immediately after it, before even the spread of information was out. He also provides no evidence towards this claim that /pol/ is such an arbitor, because the KotakuInAction reddit or even just twitter activity was far more active and prevalent moreso than anything else.

4:30 If I was inclined to go down this path, I could easily criticise anyone who subscribes to a religion because of the actions of fringes. But I think that is ridiculous, so I don't, and it doesn't make any sense here. The same at 5:20, any movement feeds off itself, good or bad - and most of those either doxxing were reported when seen by people with actual motives.

6:22 I don't know of the latter person, but this makes it seem like people who point out hypocritical or flawed reasoning are somehow conflated to harassment. I will agree with one thing he said here though, that is that it did make them more famous because people thought they were worth responding to, a mistake in my opinion. Brianna Wu in particular practically pushed herself to the forefront in order to take advantage of this, though.

6:33 Let's just say that a persecution complex might be going both ways. The statement about new targets/enemies is true of all political leanings.

7:00 This is especially hilarious because Ian Miles Cheong has denounced his words as part of anti-GG and is now saying the same things that would get him branded a nazi by the same people. So as quite a few people have pointed out in the comments, this part has especially not aged well.

7:20 He brings up Sarah Nyberg in this video as a vocal anti-GG figure (and she is) and claims that someone saying she fucks dogs is ridiculous. May be so. But accusation of pedophilia, sexually touching her niece, or child pornography that she has acquired more than likely makes it a little harder to support. Years ago or not.
https://medium.com/@srhbuttstruth/5-reasons-you-shouldn-t-stand-with-sarah-nyberg-797d84b07ce

7:29 This tweet is obviously facetious. Did he really think it was serious?

8:20 "Jack needs to believe he's the good guy." - this can be easily flipped with not much effort, and is about as meaningless to state. Though at this point he wants to broaden the spectrum so that he portrays the second group is only people like this. This is why the video is actually about his representation of his character moreso than Gamergate, so he can "objectively prove" Gamergate is a hate group.

12:28 This video seems like a whole lot of telling you who you should trust.

13:22 What is he referring to? What videos were taken down? Nothing that I'm aware of, and Brianna Wu tweeting is not a good source. At this point, he is mainly using people that are just straight up anti-GG as sources. I don't really knock him too much for it, because it would be hard to find anything that wasn't biased in some way.

15:07 I prefer to think it of the way Boogie has described it when he was referencing his time at Vidcon (where he got antagonised by Anita as part of that) - "doesn't matter who you are, put yourself out there, you're gonna get shit. When a women or a person of colour says 'I catch it worse than you', I say 'You're probably right, but we're both getting it, so we should be concerned with both'."

The idea that the media that is buddy-buddy with each other in the industry is not even surprising, really, or in the media or politics in general. You can take a look at the obviously coordinated articles proclaiming gamers dead and how awful gamergate is for that. I'm not going to be like "Gamers. They targeted Gamers." but there might be a reason Angry Jack isn't too pleased with that, and with the established gaming industry group that talked shit about various things and tried to mitigate the situation from their logs.

In conclusion: Innuendo Studios is dishonest, at least in this video. He starts vague but reasonable to get you to follow along, but it becomes dubious. He doesn't realise that he's as guilty as his character Angry Jack for using prejudical thinking to fill out 'evidence' of the situation, very little of which he provides in the video. I don't know if this is an intention of the video or if he went on to do more but yeah - this is not a good video.

That said: games journalism is mostly shit and has an unwillingness to change like most modern media organisations, it's clear this has been realised. Kotaku, at the very least did change their ethics policies so journalists couldn't outright pour money into developers they were friendly with, which was at least a start.

To be honest, I'm surprised he didn't toss in Joss Whedon somewhere there considering his vocal opposition, and also considering his dubious claims to be a feminist himself according to his ex-wife.

I'm curious if you have opinions @Julius Nepos - if you're willing to give them.

Jeez, and here I thought I was done responding to garbage arguments last night. I'm really disappointed that you are so eager to defend and legitimize the GG movement. There are a number of fallacies you're making in your analysis of the video (in which you're gish galloping), primarily that you both sides the hell out of the movement and its victims/detractors.

[Tryhard]

 

it's fine, i'll take a sassy .gif as a response as well - you're the one to tell me to watch a 20 minute video instead of writing yourself

the parts I "both sides" are the ones that genuinely were unfortunately both sides engaging in poor behaviour which doomed the entire thing to be the prime example of why humans are poor at communication, or someone pretending to be part of either, considering most of those troublesome accounts were new twitter egg accounts that are hard to do anything with as they are anonymous. but if you're really convinced that there was no doxxing, no harassment of people affiliated with GG, well...

(and if you want to say that existed, but one side was way worse, then that is hard to quantify and I'm not sure you can do it)

there's better points in other anti-GG videos. this one is not good

Edited July 31, 2018 by Edgelord

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Ryza answered this question for you.

[XRay]

Thicc thighs do not lie.

Heard her thighs saved the franchise.

Alched thread back to life.

I am thinking about getting those games on Steam whenever there is a steep sale, especially Ryza.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

It has been on sale just recently, about two weeks ago.

Quote

Heard her thighs saved the franchise.

I never heared this series was in trouble, thoughI have not really checked this series out before ports made if for the Switch.

That said Ryza is my introduction since it's the most recent part.

The gameplay is great and I don't mind that the main character doesn't match with the classic Atelier protagonist by showing more body.

[XRay]

8 hours ago, Falcom Knight said:

It has been on sale just recently, about two weeks ago.

I do not remember if it was at least 75% off, was it? I remember seeing the sale, but I did not buy anything.

To stop myself from spending on all the sales going on, I made a rule that I will only buy something if it was at least 75% off, although I sometimes will lower it to 70%.

My original threshold was 50%, but too many games were on sale at that percentage, so I do not buy games at that discount percentage anymore unless it is a game I really, really want.

8 hours ago, Falcom Knight said:

I never heared this series was in trouble, thoughI have not really checked this series out before ports made if for the Switch.

I am not actually sure if Atelier was in trouble, but this guy's video title gave me the impression it did.

 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Ah, I remember the existence of this clickbait video...

It was off by a third (40 $), and I highly doubt the price will drop even more in near future.

The game is still young, less than a year old, and hard copies aren't made anymore as far as I know.

If you want to grab a cheap Atelier part, then go for the PS3 parts.

I got Lulua on Switch for 20 €, but I think the price was only a thing in my region.

Though if really only want to play Atelier for the thighs, then you have to go for Ryza.

[♠Soul♠]

20 hours ago, XRay said:

Thicc thighs do not lie.

Heard her thighs saved the franchise.

Alched thread back to life.

I am thinking about getting those games on Steam whenever there is a steep sale, especially Ryza.

The only thing it did is put a lovely series in the radar of a degenerate demographic.

Hardly what I'd call "saving" a franchise.

Nobody gave a shit about Atelier when the girls actually looked lovely, wholesome and presentable.

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, Soul >8] said:

The only thing it did is put a lovely series in the radar of a degenerate demographic.

Hardly what I'd call "saving" a franchise.

Nobody gave a shit about Atelier when the girls actually looked lovely, wholesome and presentable.

Do not kink shame others.

And Ryza is lovely, wholesome, and presentable too.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

BTW if the previous parts were sold that poorly, then what would be the reason to re-release all Dusk and Arland parts for PS4, Switch and PC?

[♠Soul♠]

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Do not kink shame others.

And Ryza is lovely, wholesome, and presentable too.

She's alright. It's just that we all know she's especially designed to cater to a certain audience, and not in a good way.

It's like with those "innocent" anime girls with the big breasts and overly-developed body but a have a very meek demeanor and voice. You really want to like them, but they just feel very artificial, almost like they're literally designed to be a walking sex object.

It's especially annoying when the only reason people are even batting an eye towards a series you like is because of boobs. Even months before the game came out, there were dozens of fanart overbearing Atelier Lulua, even though the game just came out (and is dedicated to the popularity of an important trilogy to the series). I sincerely doubt it was due to Ryza's great personality.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Soul >8]

[XRay]

13 minutes ago, Soul >8] said:

She's alright. It's just that we all know she's especially designed to cater to a certain audience, and not in a good way.

It's like with those "innocent" anime girls with the big breasts and overly-developed body but a have a very meek demeanor and voice. You really want to like them, but they just feel very artificial, almost like they're literally designed to be a walking sex object.

It's especially annoying when the only reason people are even batting an eye towards a series you like is because of boobs. Even months before the game came out, there were dozens of fanart overbearing Atelier Lulua, even though the game just came out (and is dedicated to the popularity of an important trilogy to the series). I sincerely doubt it was due to Ryza's great personality.

Again, there is no need to kink shame others. What if other people told you that the reason you like something is wrong, and you should find another reason instead?

And according to the developers, they did not meant to design Ryza to have that sex appeal anyways. It just happened.

[♠Soul♠]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Again, there is no need to kink shame others. What if other people told you that the reason you like something is wrong, and you should find another reason instead?

I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

And according to the developers, they did not meant to design Ryza to have that sex appeal anyways. It just happened.

I believe them, I just don't believe the designer.

[XRay]

30 minutes ago, Soul >8] said:

The only thing it did is put a lovely series in the radar of a degenerate demographic.

Hardly what I'd call "saving" a franchise.

 

4 minutes ago, Soul >8] said:

I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

You called others degenerate for liking boobs and sex appeal.

[♠Soul♠]

THEY ARE DEGENERATE

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME

[XRay]

8 minutes ago, Soul >8] said:

THEY ARE DEGENERATE

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME

I do not know. What do you have to offer, and how much?

[♠Soul♠]

On 3/22/2020 at 9:52 AM, XRay said:

I do not know. What do you have to offer, and how much?

????

Edited August 29, 2021 by ♠Soul♠

[XRay]

1 minute ago, Soul >8] said:

I already have her, so you cannot sell me something I already own.

[Benice]

If Soul's looking for an agreement, does that mean he's seeking SOULace?

Speaking of thicc thighs, how about this piece of eye candy?

[Ottservia]

Y’know I always thought the series had a more shoujo appeal than an otaku one at least from the little research I’ve done on the series anyway. It’s always been sort of a shoujo game series but with the recent game I’m not sure anymore 

[DragonFlames]

When I first played Atelier Sophie (my first Atelier game), my initial impression was that the target audience for these games is probably younger girls due to how cutesy everything was, from the artstyle to the music to the characters themselves.
Then the internet happened.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I hate to say it.........but my very first reaction when I played Shallie, at least Shalotte's prolouge, was: gay

 

[♠Soul♠]

On 3/23/2020 at 3:07 PM, Falcom Knight said:

I hate to say it.........but my very first reaction when I played Shallie, at least Shalotte's prolouge, was: gay

What's homosexual about it?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I know it sounds sexist, but the cleaning part of a girl who's super excited for that.

[♠Soul♠]

She wasn't necessarily excited, but she also realizes moping around won't do anything.

It's called moving on.