Hardy Bearing has become slightly less niche

[indigoasis]

I'm sure most people already know this by now, but I'll say it anyway.

Forseti is essentially a brave weapon with an HP threshold (granted the user can double in the first place, but doesn't allow Quad-attacks). Hardy Bearing negates that brave effect from happening because it disables skills that change attack priority. Lewyn is pretty frail to begin with, so it shouldn't matter all that much if you can position your units correctly.

I'm only bringing this up because I had my Arvis fight Lewyn, and I've had Hardy Bearing on Arvis to deal with those pesky Vantage Hectors in the Arena. Lo and behold, Lewyn didn't automatically double like I thought he would, and then Arvis defeated him.

So uh... yeah. Hardy Bearing has another use now.

[Ice Dragon]

I'm pretty sure they specifically designed Holsety that way so that they could make Hardy Bearing not as useless as it was.

[DehNutCase]

The main problem with Hardy Bearing is that its best use, being partnered with Savage Blow Dazzling Staves, is rendered redundant by those same staves. Since, you know, you can just wait a turn and use the dazzle effect to ignore Vantage, rather than bringing someone with Hardy Bearing to do it.

I spoke of Reinhardt running it in the Rein Horse!Lyn pair-up with Lyn running Firesweep Savage Blow, but even then it'd only be because I like keeping mobility assists---practically speaking, there's no reason not to just run a horse staff rather than Firesweep Lyn.

 

There's still basically no reason to use Hardy Bearing over Deflect magic defensively speaking, Forseti or not.

[Vaximillian]

Green Tomebreaker ?

[Punished Dayni]

Well, at least Xander can laugh Lewyn off with it. I already had it on him for Desperation countering, but that works too.

Either way, what are the chances we see more effects like Forseti on weapons?

[indigoasis]

7 hours ago, Dayni said:

Either way, what are the chances we see more effects like Forseti on weapons?

I just realized that Forseti's effect is Adept, a skill that Lewyn has in FE4.

Anyway, the only way I can see Adept being assigned to weapons is through refinery or new characters that had the skill in their original game. The only problem with that logic is that units like Leif and Soren should have had it to begin with if you ask me.

[Punished Dayni]

3 minutes ago, indigospace said:

I just realized that Forseti's effect is Adept, a skill that Lewyn has in FE4.

Anyway, the only way I can see Adept being assigned to weapons is through refinery or new characters that had the skill in their original game. The only problem with that logic is that units like Leif and Soren should have had it to begin with if you ask me.

Legendary Leif with Bragi Sword then? I could see it, much as I'd rather legendary Leif wield something else (and be on a horse).

Hell, maybe Ronan of all characters gets that effect on a weapon as a joke. Hell, Quan, Jamka and Silvia should have had it if they wanted to be consistent with every character, but that's not how Heroes works with it.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

Adept was equal to Brave in FE4. You could say that it was already in Heroes.

Brave weapon cancelled out Adept in FE4.

[Vaximillian]

5 minutes ago, Dayni said:

I'd rather legendary Leif wield something else (and be on a horse).

Rescue staff.

14 minutes ago, indigospace said:

units like Leif and Soren should have had it to begin with if you ask me.

It disgusts me that Soren, famous for increased capability of doubling in his games, comes with a skill that prevents doubling altogether in Heroes. Can’t be further from a faithful representation.

[Ice Dragon]

15 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

The main problem with Hardy Bearing is

The main problem with Hardy Bearing is that Vantage is countered by the fact that you really should be killing everything in one round of combat, Desperation is countered by the fact that you really should be killing everything in one round of combat, and Holsety is countered by G Tomebreaker, which is way more useful, though it does take the passive B slot to do so.

 

2 hours ago, indigospace said:

I just realized that Forseti's effect is Adept, a skill that Lewyn has in FE4.

I interpreted Holsety's effect to reference the "I have a gajillion Evade you so can't hit me" that happens when you have +20 Spd.

[Stroud]

I see another way Hardy bearing becomes slightly less niche.
How about foddering Lewyn to a unit with a special -1 Trigger weapon and AOE special and go the path of Ares.
I still have Hardy Bearing 3 Seal only on my AOE Ares. I don't want to get him in a pinch in sight of Vantage.
Still, special Spiral will remain a B skill and Hardy Bearing is a Seal which could be a potential B skill. Only 1 unit can use this. 

I think Merric could profit from that setup, he is a mage with a Special Trigger -1 Tome and could make use of Hardy Bearing.
 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Stroud

[DehNutCase]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The main problem with Hardy Bearing is that Vantage is countered by the fact that you really should be killing everything in one round of combat, Desperation is countered by the fact that you really should be killing everything in one round of combat, and Holsety is countered by G Tomebreaker, which is way more useful, though it does take the passive B slot to do so.

To be fair, the main reason you need to kill Vantage & Desperation users in one round is because of mobility skills---which are all dependent your teammates being in position to be teleported to, meaning they're shafted by Gravity. But that's still just the staff making the seal completely redundant.

 

Honestly I'm not too sure I'd bother with running G-Tome breaker for Forseti---it's not like Lweyn's mobility is anything special, meaning you can just smack him on player phase like every other mage that OHKOs your ass. Doesn't help that the B-slot is getting pretty stacked these days---I think the A-slot is still stronger, but it's getting close.

[Ice Dragon]

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

To be fair, the main reason you need to kill Vantage & Desperation users in one round is because of mobility skills---which are all dependent your teammates being in position to be teleported to, meaning they're shafted by Gravity. But that's still just the staff making the seal completely redundant.

Ranged units can still reach you by taking a step forward. Ranged allies can still hit you by teleporting to the beacon. The damage unit can even take a step forward to let the teleporter have more reach. You don't have to run either of Vantage or Desperation to get this done.

The ones with Vantage and Desperation are an additional layer on top of Wings of Mercy, not the reason why Wings of Mercy is threatening. Vantage forces you to engage on your enemy phase if you can't tank the hit, and Desperation forces you to engage on your player phase if you can't tank two hits or prevent the follow-up, which some teams are not well-equipped to handle.

Gravity is also a skill that is harder to fit onto a team due to being locked to units with a disadvantage in scoring, and killing in one round of combat is far more efficient, far less liable to mistakes, and easier to build for.

 

2 hours ago, DehNutCase said:

Honestly I'm not too sure I'd bother with running G-Tome breaker for Forseti---it's not like Lweyn's mobility is anything special, meaning you can just smack him on player phase like every other mage that OHKOs your ass. Doesn't help that the B-slot is getting pretty stacked these days---I think the A-slot is still stronger, but it's getting close.

Wary Fighter, Thunder Armads, and Great Flame also already exist for high-scoring teams.

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Ranged units can still reach you by taking a step forward. Ranged allies can still hit you by teleporting to the beacon. The damage unit can even take a step forward to let the teleporter have more reach. You don't have to run either of Vantage or Desperation to get this done.

The ones with Vantage and Desperation are an additional layer on top of Wings of Mercy, not the reason why Wings of Mercy is threatening. Vantage forces you to engage on your enemy phase if you can't tank the hit, and Desperation forces you to engage on your player phase if you can't tank two hits or prevent the follow-up, which some teams are not well-equipped to handle.

Gravity is also a skill that is harder to fit onto a team due to being locked to units with a disadvantage in scoring, and killing in one round of combat is far more efficient, far less liable to mistakes, and easier to build for.

I didn't mean it like Vantage is why WoM is threatening, I meant it as in the only way Vantage or Desperation can be threatening is if the enemy team had a WoM type mobility skill. If you have dazzling gravity the Vantage and Desperation uses are pretty much completely useless, since you just straight up don't get to hit anything. Mind, I'm thinking of the staff user in a high mobility---and therefore low scoring---team, something like a horse staff that's danced, followed the dancer being repo'd [edit: Not by the staff, by someone unrelated], which puts everyone at least 4 range away, which is something only a teleporting ranged unit can threaten.

I see your point about the team being prone to misplays, though---that's actually a problem with mobile teams in general. More mobility means more squares you can be in, which are more choices that can be bad, and mobile teams don't tend to have forgiving bulk.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Wary Fighter, Thunder Armads, and Great Flame also already exist for high-scoring teams.

Off-topic: I kind of wish they didn't print any of the ally count > enemy count, ally count < enemy count, or whatever skills---I'd much rather they be always on even if I never used them myself. It makes keeping track of skills a lot more complicated---even if they're a bit strong if they're always on at least they'd be easier to use and to plan against. It just feels like a kind of needless bookkeeping.

 

Like, who actually cares if Hector straight up had a better than Wary Fighter Prf---his checks are still exactly the same, and the people he checks are still exactly the same.

Edited September 10, 2018 by DehNutCase

[Diovani Bressan]

I would only use Hardy Bearing Seal if I decide to use Ares or a unit with Special Spiral. A lot of times I used Ares with Blazing Wind, and after he trigger his special, Vantage killed him.