Abortion

[Meteor]

It's murder, and the mother does not have the right to decide if that baby lives or dies just because it is in her body.

I do not necessarily agree. Say the baby is born. The life is then entrusted to the mother who does not want it. Is murder worse than a child living in neglect?

[Shuuda]

adoption if you don't want it

Contrary to what you may think, adoption is not the ultimate solution either.

[Ragnell]

Is killing it the right answer either? No. You should never kill any human being in my opinion.

And adoption may not be perfect all the time, but it is better than murder.

Don't get me wrong, this topic is terribly difficult and complicated. The real solution is not to have sex until you're ready for a kid. Yes, yes I know rape does happen as well. However, that baby could be given a chance for a good life instead of just killing it because there is a chance it may be misreable. I'd rather be misreable than dead. Anyway, most abortions do not have rape involved. Don't go screwing around if you aren't ready for a kid. And don't try to kill it to make your life easier.

[DeSu]

You should never kill any human being in my opinion.

But killing animals is alright?

[Ragnell]

As hypocritical as this sounds, I don't think killing animals is wrong. Now I don't think killing animals for no reason is good. You should only kill them for food or if they are a danger to you. And you should never torture animals. But I believe that killing is only truly wrong if it is something that is or may become a human and it poses no real threat to you (not in self defence).

The part about animals is just a general rule of thumb, so please don't find little exceptions and hurl them at me.

[DeSu]

As hypocritical as this sounds, I don't think killing animals is wrong. Now I don't think killing animals for no reason is good. You should only kill them for food or if they are a danger to you. And you should never torture animals. But I believe that killing is only truly wrong if it is something that is or may become a human and it poses no real threat to you (not in self defence).

The part about animals is just a general rule of thumb, so please don't find little exceptions and hurl them at me.

So? Are you going to defend animals that are hunted for sport as much as you defend humans? No. The reason for that is most probably because you believe humans to be superior. Not saying you are, but many people blow off animals because they don't have the same intelligence as us, so it doesn't matter if they die. But a baby has no more intelligence than any out there.

Just sayin'.

[Inactive Account]

I think all women deserve the right to choose, it is THEIR body after all, not yours.

But it isn't. This is another human being, not just an organ or something.

I think abortion is awful. It's murder, and the mother does not have the right to decide if that baby lives or dies just because it is in her body. From the moment the sperm and egg join, you have all the DNA to make a full and complete person. The only reason I can possibly think of to abort a child is if the mother's life is in danger and she agrees to. Even the rape thing doesn't hold water with me. I say put it up for adoption if you don't want it, just don't kill it.

I completely agree with this. I'm a girl. I say that men don't have the right to murder; why should we give it to women?

On another note, the debate on if you can kill a fetus because it is not alive yet scares the crap out of me. If you can decide that a fetus is not alive yet, can you say I'm not a person yet and can be killed because I'm not an adult (I'm not saying that that is what any of you pro-choice people is saying, just that the potential for future arguments like that are left open). There should be no gray area in murder, it either has the potential to be a person or doesn't.

Well said. At what point can a child be called alive? At conception, when all of the DNA is present and ready to go to work? At three weeks, when the central nervous system is already forming? Six weeks, when the heart begins to beat? Seven weeks, when it begins to look definitely human? Nine weeks, when it is officially considered a fetus? I would say at conception, but the truth is, as humans we have no way of knowing, and have no right to say when life begins; thus, abortion at any time is murder.

About enforcing a no-abortion law, the only way to fix that is to raise our society's falling moral standards and convince women that abortions are wrong. And it IS worth it to save the lives of millions of children.

It is indeed. My sister and two of my close friends are adopted. Their birth parents didn't want them, but let them live and found families who did want them.

And no, I don't think all people who have abortions are the devil, but we should end it now before any more die.

The main problem is one of convenience; people do not see abortion as morally wrong, and it is more convenient than carrying a child to term. Women who have aborted are often emotionally devastated afterward; society needs to help them, and to help others facing the choice to make the right one.

As to the question of killing animals: Animals are not human, they are not on our level. Still they do feel and we should refrain from killing them cruelly or needlessly. But that isn't the issue here.

[DeSu]

As to the question of killing animals: Animals are not human, they are not on our level. Still they do feel and we should refrain from killing them cruelly or needlessly. But that isn't the issue here.

But that whole mind set is whats wrong with you people. Why do you defend something that has no mental capabilities, no emotions, no memory, NOTHING, yet you say something that can think, has emotions, and mental capabilites is lower? Just because it is not human? You may say you would refrain from killing them, but given the option, would any of you use defend animals with the vigor you defend a fetus?

[Ragnell]

So? Are you going to defend animals that are hunted for sport as much as you defend humans? No. The reason for that is most probably because you believe humans to be superior. Not saying you are, but many people blow off animals because they don't have the same intelligence as us, so it doesn't matter if they die. But a baby has no more intelligence than any out there.

Just sayin'.

Yes, babies do not have the intelligence of most animals, but they have the potential to have even more. And while it is a bit off topic, hunting just for the heck of hunting is usually wrong. But, it sometimes does do good. Where I'm from, there is a LOT of deer. So every year, a lot of guys go out and hunt them. I'm guessing not all of these people use the animals they kill. But, without them, the deer population would spiral out of control and eventually collapse. They would end up starving or being hit by cars. But I agree, usually hunting for sport is usually pretty bad. I can't stand to do it. But it is not as bad as killing humans.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Ragnell

[DeSu]

But it is not as bad as killing humans.

Why? Just because we were blessed with mental capabilities beyond others doesn't mean we have a right to destroy other life forms. Doesn't make killing a fetus any worse than killing an animal.

[Judge Judy]

...Guys try to stick to the topic XD

[DeSu]

...Guys try to stick to the topic XD

I'm not changing it. I'm comparing the validity of their morals.

[Ragnell]

Just because we kill other animals doesn't mean we have to kill fetuses (how do you spell that?). And I believe the same rule applies for both: don't kill it unless it's a danger to you or you need to eat it to survive. Neither is true of abortions. It is killing for convenience most of the time (rape excluded). We should save every fetus and animal we can.

[DeSu]

Just because we kill other animals doesn't mean we have to kill fetuses (how do you spell that?). And I believe the same rule applies for both: don't kill it unless it's a danger to you or you need to eat it to survive. Neither is true of abortions. It is killing for convenience most of the time (rape excluded). We should save every fetus and animal we can.

I'm not saying we should kill fetuses because we kill animals. I'm just pointing out they're not all that different. But people I think people shouldn't be FORCED to not be able to have an abortion. I'm not for it, but I'm very against lack of freedom. Aborted babies are babies that are likely to live miserable lives anyways.

[Phoenix Wright]

As much would probably guess, I am HIGHLY against abortion. Which is why the Democrat party is so highly flawed.

Abortion is SUCH a touchy subject, I'd rather a woman not do it at all. My friend (Yes, couldn't keep the pants on) was pregnant, and she had the sweet idea (sarcasm) to inject alcohol into her body to kill the baby, ...or som' like that. She then had a miscarriage, I'm glad that she didn't kill the baby, though it is EXTREMELY sad the baby died. I would have been a "uncle," I think.

My mother had two abortions before my biggest brother, Raven, it is in the back of her f***** head FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. The amount of sorrow it brings is astronomical. I talked about it for two seconds and almost instantly ---mind she is an INCREDIBLY tough woman--- she started to cry. I felt so bad that I even brought it up.

Now, onto my opinion. Abortion should have never been invented. It is murder, especially to a baby. It has cells, therefore it is ALIVE...somewhat. Adoption is bad enough, "Uh, Chris...you are adopted. Your mom didn't want you cause she was too young."

"What? Too young? She couldn't take care of me?"

"No, sweety."

"Why can't I see her now?"

"She is too afraid to meet you."

...etc.

Under any circumstances, it was YOU who had unprotected sex, so YOU must face the consequences. Therefore, ABORTION IS NOT THE ANSWER. Adoption is the BETTER choice, though THE WISEST would be to NOT HAVE SEX. We cannot avoid it though, sadly.

Notes: "Chris" is not me, nor anyone I know.

I AM NOT against adoption, but you gotta admit it is sad.

[Jyosua]

Chopping down trees is murder because they're alive.

[Knife]

Just a reminder: Attack the subject, not those opposing you.

[Inactive Account]

Adoption is bad enough, "Uh, Chris...you are adopted. Your mom didn't want you cause she was too young."

"What? Too young? She couldn't take care of me?"

"No, sweety."

"Why can't I see her now?"

"She is too afraid to meet you."

...etc.

Notes: "Chris" is not me, nor anyone I know.

I AM NOT against adoption, but you gotta admit it is sad.

It doesn't have to be bad; it shouldn't be considered negative at all. My sister has known that she was adopted since she was old enough to understand; as she looks nothing like my family it's not hard to tell. She knows that her birth parents could not take care of her and has met them. It hasn't hurt her; she knows who her family is. I think the problem comes when people won't admit to their child that they are adopted and it is spilled later on.

Regardless, adoption is definitely infinitely preferable to abortion.

[Phoenix Wright]

Chopping down trees is murder because they're alive.

Now you understand me!!! Of course, I don't believe THAT much though.

What if you were the one dying, would it be fair to YOU? Hell no it wouldn't, so why's it fair to kill a baby?

@Kiryn: Absolutely right. I didn't really think of it that way, sorry. Usually adopted kids never even get a chance to meet their parents.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Citrusman

[General Spoon]

This image would break the page, and some people may think it is graphic. You have been warned, don't bitch at me if you can't read this and don't like the image.

Now, let me ask you this question. Are you a Christian? If yes:

The Fifth Commandment.

Thou shalt not kill.

What does this mean?

We should fear and love God that we may not hurt nor harm our neighbor in his body, but help and befriend him in every bodily need.

Sorry for bringing religion into this, but it was going to happen eventually (by the pro-kill-kill-kill-people, no doubt as a flaw of pro-life). Oh well. It should cause some people to reconsider what they believe.

[Phoenix Wright]

This image would break the page, and some people may think it is graphic. You have been warned, don't bitch at me if you can't read this and don't like the image.

Now, let me ask you this question. Are you a Christian? If yes:

The Fifth Commandment.

Thou shalt not kill.

What does this mean?

We should fear and love God that we may not hurt nor harm our neighbor in his body, but help and befriend him in every bodily need.

Sorry for bringing religion into this, but it was going to happen eventually (by the pro-kill-kill-kill-people, no doubt as a flaw of pro-life). Oh well. It should cause some people to reconsider what they believe.

Wow, and I thought I was against abortion before...

Yeah, I'm Christian, but I'm trying to keep religion out of it.

[Inactive Account]

It was going to come up eventually.

And almost everyone believes that to take an innocent human life is wrong.

By the way, this was well said:

The answer to a crisis pregnancy is to eliminate the crisis, not the child.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Kiryn

[General Spoon]

Let's try it this way.

A person has determined that another person shouldn't live, and makes the choice to kill that person.

Hopefully, we can all agree that this is murder, and that this is wrong.

I'm not going to connect any dots here. I'm just telling you where the dots are.

Edited November 19, 2008 by General Spoon

[Esau of Isaac]

You say that a government's job is to protect "us." Are "we" only under protection once we've left the womb? Are we only concerned with protecting the present citizens, or are we not also supposed to protect future generations?

If you support banning abortion to "save" future generations, then you better at least be consistent and go ahead and ban not having sex 24/7, because last I checked a life is denied because I don't impregnate a woman every single chance I get.

That said, after trying to eliminate any religious or social bias, I come to the conclusion that a fertilized egg does count as life.

Of course the fertilized egg is alive. Why does that mean it deserves the right to live, however?

I think abortion is awful. It's murder,

Please explain why it is murder.

and the mother does not have the right to decide if that baby lives or dies just because it is in her body. From the moment the sperm and egg join, you have all the DNA to make a full and complete person.

She should have every right to remove it.

And so what if it has the DNA to make a full and complete person? It's not one yet, and it will take months of gestation to become anything similar to a human person. You might as well say that we should protect the life of all sperm because all they need is an egg to live.

On another note, the debate on if you can kill a fetus because it is not alive yet scares the crap out of me. If you can decide that a fetus is not alive yet, can you say I'm not a person yet and can be killed because I'm not an adult (I'm not saying that that is what any of you pro-choice people is saying, just that the potential for future arguments like that are left open).

Anyone who says that the fetus is not alive is not aware of what the scientific definition of life is; it's quite alive.

There should be no gray area in murder, it either has the potential to be a person or doesn't.

Potential means zilch in this debate. It is a complete and total eventuality that I am going to die. However, I am not defined as dead, am I? Because while I may die eventually, I'm not yet dead.

Well said. At what point can a child be called alive? At conception, when all of the DNA is present and ready to go to work? At three weeks, when the central nervous system is already forming? Six weeks, when the heart begins to beat? Seven weeks, when it begins to look definitely human? Nine weeks, when it is officially considered a fetus? I would say at conception, but the truth is, as humans we have no way of knowing, and have no right to say when life begins; thus, abortion at any time is murder.

We have every way of knowing; we defined the term "living". Why wouldn't we be able to define when it is alive?

This image would break the page, and some people may think it is graphic. You have been warned, don't bitch at me if you can't read this and don't like the image.

Now, let me ask you this question. Are you a Christian? If yes:

The Fifth Commandment.

Thou shalt not kill.

What does this mean?

We should fear and love God that we may not hurt nor harm our neighbor in his body, but help and befriend him in every bodily need.

Sorry for bringing religion into this, but it was going to happen eventually (by the pro-kill-kill-kill-people, no doubt as a flaw of pro-life). Oh well. It should cause some people to reconsider what they believe.

Or it will cause some of us to criticize your position as lunacy and an appeal to emotion, with shock images at that.

I like the pro-kill-kill-kill-people thing, though. That's not insulting or inflammatory in the slightest.

[Jyosua]

No guys. You kill living things every day by simply breathing. Do you realize that bacteria is alive? The thing is, none of these living things have self awareness or a consciousness. That said, pre-birth babies, be it a zygote, fetus or what-not, do not have that yet.