Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Acacia Sgt]

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

So how was the ending? Great stuff right?

It was interesting, but knowing already the story had to be split up in two games, it definitely felt more like "buy SC to see the rest!", hahaha.

[Lightcosmo]

I'm sorry. What?

Way to copy/paste Heavenly Gift's description into True Radiant Wings description. The people that did that job, did they know what they were doing at all? XD

Edited July 27, 2023 by Lightcosmo

[Interdimensional Observer]

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That and when I saw the word Zelda I immediately assumed they were doing the "here are games everyone's played before, give us moneys" funny. But looking more into it, these seem to be pretty unknown Zeldas. As unknown as a Zelda can be, at any rate.

I think the title of "most "unknown" Zelda" would go to Four Swords or Four Swords Adventure. The Four Swords b/c of the limited way it was available, the FS Adventure sold only about 940k copies (still just short of a million- numbers most games to this day would crave), making it the Zelda that has sold the least (and requires a GameCube, four Game Boy Advances + link cables to optimally enjoy). But, these at least are notable for inventing the concept of Multiplayer Zelda.

The Oracle duology has nonetheless ran into perhaps three issues I can identify that has kept it down as far as Zeldas go.:

1. Link's Awakening- The Oracle games copy the visuals and format of Link's Awakening, which for some makes them seem derivative. Not helped by the fact that Link's Awakening has the legacy of helping to "prove you can have a full, home console-quality experience on a portable system", the Oracles couldn't go back in time and beat LA to that accomplishment.
   • However, however formulaic they might be, me and Armagon would agree that the Oracle games are solid and fun Zelda experiences. Not at inherently inferior to Link's Awakening.
2. Portability- When Zelda went Three-Dee, all the hype and attention got lavished on the home console three-dimensional experiences. Despite the aforementioned "achievement" of Link's Awakening, the portable games (usually either 2D or 3D with top-down perspective like the 2D games) have maintained a second-class existence within the Zelda franchise's popularity/fanbase.
3. Release Date- In Japan, the Oracles games released in February 2001, the Game Boy Advance in March 2001. For North America it was May and June. And for Europe it was October and June -yes the Oracles released after the new portable. While the GBA was backwards compatible, a fact the Oracle games actually acknowledge ingame, releasing at the very end of the life cycle of a system usually doesn't help.
   • The release was certainly not intended to be so late when the Oracle games began (YOU DON'T REALLY NEED TO READ THIS).
     • The Oracle games began with a remake of LoZ1 and a new sequel to that, to be followed by four more new games.
     • Then, they became an interconnected trilogy referred to as the "Triforce Series" with the titles of "Chapter (or Tale) of Power/Wisdom/Courage". Which then got the "Chapter" replaced by "Mystical Seed", though they were otherwise probably mostly the same.
     • The third game got cast into the void, b/c interlinking three games was too complicated. Only then did the surviving "Mystical Seed of Power" and "Mystical Seed of Wisdom" become "The Mystical Seed: Chapter of Earth" and "The Mystical Seed: Chapter of Space-Time", which in English use the much-shorter titles "Oracle of Seasons" and "Oracle of Ages".

 

9 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Ys 6 😉

I would, but I've kinda been scared away from pre-Seven Ys.😅 Your love for Adol Must Die difficulty concerns me. Maybe, next time it's on sale. Whereas I bought Seven and Celceta on sale at the same time, I think I'll proceed one at a time for anything older, just in case one of them should tie me on a stake surrounded by fire. I have no other choice with the Seven-IX paradigm completed now, and X some distance away.

[Saint Rubenio]

1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

think the title of "most "unknown" Zelda" would go to Four Swords or Four Swords Adventure. The Four Swords b/c of the limited way it was available, the FS Adventure sold only about 940k copies (still just short of a million- numbers most games to this day would crave), making it the Zelda that has sold the least (and requires a GameCube, four Game Boy Advances + link cables to optimally enjoy). But, these at least are notable for inventing the concept of Multiplayer Zelda.

Figured this is the other Zelda I've played. Credit goes to the ambassador program, though. I couldn't say no when a shiny new game appeared on my 3DS out of thin air!

[Codename Shrimp]

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I would, but I've kinda been scared away from pre-Seven Ys.😅 Your love for Adol Must Die difficulty concerns me. Maybe, next time it's on sale. Whereas I bought Seven and Celceta on sale at the same time, I think I'll proceed one at a time for anything older, just in case one of them should tie me on a stake surrounded by fire. I have no other choice with the Seven-IX paradigm completed now, and X some distance away.

I mean, you don't have to pull a Shrimpy and play on Nightmare xD

[Lightcosmo]

2 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

I mean, you don't have to pull a Shrimpy and play on Nightmare xD

That's what you were going to walk into playing that 776 mod, but i saved you! XD

[Armagon]

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I wouldn't go that far, she is from the same village Duren and Bad Dude.

Yeah but like she does nothing. At least in Xenogears, the likes of Rico, Billy, Maria, etc have their own arcs where they actually are relevant. You can't remove Rico from the plot but you could remove Frieda, if that makes sense.

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Given the man Freida is said to have loved never appears in the game, maybe that is evidence of an unfinished thread?

It would've been a lot better if Gruda was her ex because God knows these villains need something going for them.

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

As for differences in the various versions of Adol's journey to Celceta, I didn't get a full spoilers & details-heavy list of them. Leeza and Karna existed in both Mask of the Sun and Dawn of Ys, so did Duren, but his role was much more minor than that of Replacement Dogi. Birdman, the villain trio, the ghost, and Leo (albeit unnamed in one version) all existed too, but important details differed. Adol's amnesia is exclusive to Memories of Celceta, the origins of which -again no evidence was provided by the one who stated it (I wish there had been)- may lay in Memories having begun as a total franchise reboot with a younger Adol.

Overall, Memories of Celceta follows the contours of Mask of the Sun's story, but with some serious changes and updates, and some positive aspects taken from The Dawn of Ys, the Hudson Soft-developed version of Ys IV deemed less in line with Falcom's original vision and was never canon. Although The Dawn of Ys is considered in every way the superior old Ys IV.

The funny quirks of the game having two versions. I'd imagine a Ys 5 remake also goes the Celceta route, where it follows the basic outline but is basically different.

Shadows of Valentia, if you will.

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

."Seasons of Ages" sounds like a beautiful concept aesthetically.

Another genius name for it.

10 hours ago, GuardianSing said:

Post 911 American nationalism has done irreserveble damage to country music.

This is from the 80s.

7 hours ago, Sooks said:

is auto build the only thing that was super warranted right now? 

This. I mean you can do the other questline but since it's in the Gerudo Depths, it could be easier to tackle it once you go do the Gerudo questline itself.

Though you'll want to spend considerable time in the Depths anyway for Zonaite.

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

50, though? If I had to hazard a guess, it's going to be 50.

It seems back in the day, GBC games were sold at $50. So you know what, things haven't really changed.

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That and when I saw the word Zelda I immediately assumed they were doing the "here are games everyone's played before, give us moneys" funny. But looking more into it, these seem to be pretty unknown Zeldas. As unknown as a Zelda can be, at any rate.

If there's a Zelda game that's actually underrated, it's these two.

14 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Adol faces her fiancee in Ys 6 iirc

And this is Ys 4. Does Freida show up in Ys 6?

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

• Portability- When Zelda went Three-Dee, all the hype and attention got lavished on the home console three-dimensional experiences. Despite the aforementioned "achievement" of Link's Awakening, the portable games (usually either 2D or 3D with top-down perspective like the 2D games) have maintained a second-class existence within the Zelda franchise's popularity/fanbase.
• Release Date- In Japan, the Oracles games released in February 2001, the Game Boy Advance in March 2001. For North America it was May and June. And for Europe it was October and June -yes the Oracles released after the new portable. While the GBA was backwards compatible, a fact the Oracle games actually acknowledge ingame, releasing at the very end of the life cycle of a system usually doesn't help.

Also doesn't help that both games were sandwiched in between Majora's Mask and Wind Waker (and Four Swords but lol). Now granted, Wind Waker was poorly received back then but that's still a handheld game releasing in the gap year between two consoles.

 

[Codename Shrimp]

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

And this is Ys 4. Does Freida show up in Ys 6?

Nope.

But connections to one of the greater plots are always nice to see. The village in Celceta being the hometown of one of the villains later (timeline wise) is a nice touch

[Armagon]

7 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Nope.

But connections to one of the greater plots are always nice to see. The village in Celceta being the hometown of one of the villains later (timeline wise) is a nice touch

Actually now that I think about it, the villain of Ys 6 being Frieda's ex wasn't a thing back then, was it? Given the differences in the versions.

[Codename Shrimp]

3 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Actually now that I think about it, the villain of Ys 6 being Frieda's ex wasn't a thing back then, was it? Given the differences in the versions.

I am not really sure, but it's probably something that got added to Celceta yh

[Armagon]

Cause like the beginning of the game brings up Romn's war with Altago but I know they didn't come up with Altago back then.

[Codename Shrimp]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Cause like the beginning of the game brings up Romn's war with Altago but I know they didn't come up with Altago back then.

reminder, Ys basically went through a reboot with Ys 6 after Ys 5 almost killed the series

[Interdimensional Observer]

13 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yeah but like she does nothing. At least in Xenogears, the likes of Rico, Billy, Maria, etc have their own arcs where they actually are relevant. You can't remove Rico from the plot but you could remove Frieda, if that makes sense.

True. As I said, we only really needed Duren.

15 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Also doesn't help that both games were sandwiched in between Majora's Mask and Wind Waker (and Four Swords but lol). Now granted, Wind Waker was poorly received back then but that's still a handheld game releasing in the gap year between two consoles.

They did give the Happy Mask Salesman a cameo appearance, and the toilet hand. Can't forget that.

As for Wind Waker, yes it was poorly-received, but le grande infame of Celda meant it still held a lot of attention, even if it was vocally negative. Kinda happy that WW released after the Oracles, otherwise they could've gotten the Celda treatment and no offense to FSA/PH/ST/TH (two of these being WW sequels so it makes sense), but the toony-cell-shaded approach has retrospectively been done plenty, the Oracles have their "old-styled but not ugly/laughably dated" mildly-anime visuals, which I like.

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Actually now that I think about it, the villain of Ys 6 being Frieda's ex wasn't a thing back then, was it? Given the differences in the versions.

I'm not even sure Frieda existed back in Mask or Dawn. Nor the village? Looks like Highland  Selray, and Komodo did, but not the secret one. -I'm flipping through old walkthroughs of both games and I can't find what seems to look/sound like it. Annnnd looking at the Fandom Wiki, none of Ozma, Calilica, Frieda, or Griselda (why invent her when she ain't playable?) for that matter existed prior to Memories of Celceta.

[Armagon]

7 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

reminder, Ys basically went through a reboot with Ys 6 after Ys 5 almost killed the series

Rebooting the timeline too?

Damn what was so bad about Ys 5 apart from sales maybe? I think you answered this but i forgot.

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Annnnd looking at the Fandom Wiki, none of Ozma, Calilica, Frieda, or Griselda (why invent her when she ain't playable?) for that matter existed prior to Memories of Celceta.

Release order, Ys 8 came after Celceta (timeline order too now that i'm looking at it but that's later). And Griselda does show up in Ys 8. Perhaps it was meant as a little tease (not like she's playable in either).

With the games having to build up to a final confrontation with Romn eventually, my guess is they started planting the seeds early. Although with Ys 10 now taking place between Ys 2 and Celceta (timeline wise), it'll be a while.

[Interdimensional Observer]

11 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

Looks photoshopped, too photorealistic for a cell-shaded game.

I jumped on The Cutting Room Floor yesterday, to check if any tasty developmental breadcrumbs buried in Celceta. I didn't find any, but there is a placeholder portrait sprite that happens to be a photo of fish of the genus Bothrocara. In part of Japan TCRF says, Bothrocara are called "dogi". -Maybe we'll be able to catch one?🎣

[Acacia Sgt]

28 minutes ago, Armagon said:

my guess is they started planting the seeds early.

Seeds, you say? *Insert Garon here*

Edited July 27, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Saint Rubenio]

lol for some reason in the Spanish wikipedia's article for Link, the image if not of Link, but rather some guy cosplaying as Link. Amazing.

Anyway, the talk about Four Swords got me to look for it online, but apparently the good version was DSi, and try as I might MelonDS doesn't like it. Not sure if it's the ROM I found or the DSi firmware files I found, because the emulator is supposed to be able to handle this. Might keep looking some other time.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

With the games having to build up to a final confrontation with Romn eventually, my guess is they started planting the seeds early. Although with Ys 10 now taking place between Ys 2 and Celceta (timeline wise), it'll be a while.

I'm coming to dislike decades-hanging unresolved plots.😑 And this is without having touched Trails (I've learned my lesson, and are staying away from that until it is done then I'll play it entirely in reverse release order).

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Rebooting the timeline too?

Damn what was so bad about Ys 5 apart from sales maybe? I think you answered this but i forgot.

Doing a quick Google search led me to find this contemporary review from earlier this year. I skipped the part where it talked about the plot (even if that'll be overhauled come the prophesied remake).:

https://levelskip.com/rpgs/Ys-Series-Retrospective-Part-4-Lost-Kingdom-on-the-Super-Nintendo

Summarizing its various points of criticism (which might have applied at the time of release).:

• Released on the Super Famicom after the Sega Saturn and Playstation were already out. Contributed to the bad sales.
• Too easy. The Ys fans who existed when there was nothing but endless water in this world like it rough.
  • Falcom later released an Expert version of the game to address this (so fans back then probably really did think this was Ys V was too easy), Internet talk elsewhere says it went in the opposite direction and was too hard.
• Combat ditched the Bump System™️. Replacement Action RPG gameplay wasn't very good.
  • (Positive remarks I'm finding elsewhere say in retrospect it's proto-Ark of Napishtim.)
• Ys III had ditched The Bump too, but there is another problem with Kefin- No References to Prior Ys. No Dogi, no Romuns, no mythical lore, no nothing not even ever mentioned.
• Music is orchestral, not rockin' likes Ys traditionally does it and how fans love it. The musical shift makes it blend in with the SNES's other big JRPGs, like Square's.
• Bad menu UI.
• Plot seems to be its best point, though I see others say it's only half-decent and that the music is -with the aforementioned flaws- is the relatively "best" part.

Reviewer still gave it a 6/10 despite all the criticisms, so it isn't Literally Unplayable. More like "Hardcore Ys fans have high standards and Lost Kefin: Kingdom of Sand is a Generic ARPG that falls below what's acceptable for the franchise". Please don't feed anyone to 'zilla if this sounds too much like a "X is a bad Y game, but not a terrible Z game" criticism.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

14 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

lol for some reason in the Spanish wikipedia's article for Link, the image if not of Link, but rather some guy cosplaying as Link. Amazing.

Was the article perchance named Vinculo or Enlace?

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Reviewer still gave it a 6/10 despite all the criticisms, so it isn't Literally Unplayable. More like "Hardcore Ys fans have high standards and Lost Kefin: Kingdom of Sand is a Generic ARPG that falls below what's acceptable for the franchise". Please don't feed anyone to 'zilla if this sounds too much like a "X is a bad Y game, but not a terrible Z game" criticism.

I guess if it continues to not get remade, then Kefin is truly Lost.

[Armagon]

31 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

lol for some reason in the Spanish wikipedia's article for Link, the image if not of Link, but rather some guy cosplaying as Link. Amazing.

Anyway, the talk about Four Swords got me to look for it online, but apparently the good version was DSi, and try as I might MelonDS doesn't like it. Not sure if it's the ROM I found or the DSi firmware files I found, because the emulator is supposed to be able to handle this. Might keep looking some other time.

Google search how to run DSiware on MelonDS (i can't put that here probably).

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Released on the Super Famicom after the Sega Saturn and Playstation were already out. Contributed to the bad sales.

Thracia moment.

21 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Ys III had ditched The Bump too

Ys III also played like Zelda II.

22 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

but there is another problem with Kefin- No References to Prior Ys. No Dogi, no Romuns, no mythical lore, no nothing not even ever mentioned.

So basically the Link's Awakening of the series where it's just this odd member of the family. Although the final boss does take the form of several ALTTP bosses so i suppose Link's Awakening had that going for it.

Now Ys 9 does bring up Ys 5 iirc so there's a thread for a remake there.

23 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Music is orchestral, not rockin' likes Ys traditionally does it and how fans love it. The musical shift makes it blend in with the SNES's other big JRPGs, like Square's.

Am i allowed to say that Ys' instance on rockin' music hurts the variety?

Like, i'm feeling the OST as a whole is pretty good but i'd be hard-pressed to actually recall any particular songs, because they're all pretty samey. I had this issue with Ys Origin too.

24 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Please don't feed anyone to 'zilla if this sounds too much like a "X is a bad Y game, but not a terrible Z game" criticism.

Too late

[Codename Shrimp]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Griselda (why invent her when she ain't playable?)

Romun stuff, probably

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Rebooting the timeline too?

 

More like...correcting/refining it? Alot of stuff got retconned/changed after all.

27 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The Ys fans who existed when there was nothing but endless water in this world like it rough

can confirm xD

[Saint Rubenio]

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Was the article perchance named Vinculo or Enlace?

If only.

7 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Google search how to run DSiware on MelonDS (i can't put that here probably).

The thing is, I have all the required files and the ROM, but when I try to play it, the screens freeze white. The ROM is correctly detected, if I go into ROM info it shows up as Four Swords, but it just doesn't work and I don't know why.

Oh well. Some other time.

[Armagon]

13 minutes ago, Shrimpy -Limited Edition- said:

More like...correcting/refining it? Alot of stuff got retconned/changed after all.

True true. Early Ys timeline hardly resembles the current one.

[Interdimensional Observer]

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Ys III also played like Zelda II.

Oh.😐

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

So basically the Link's Awakening of the series where it's just this odd member of the family. Although the final boss does take the form of several ALTTP bosses so i suppose Link's Awakening had that going for it.

At least two people I saw called it "the black sheep of Ys", Ys without its distinctly Ys identity. That could be it.

24 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Am i allowed to say that Ys' instance on rockin' music hurts the variety?

Like, i'm feeling the OST as a whole is pretty good but i'd be hard-pressed to actually recall any particular songs, because they're all pretty samey. I had this issue with Ys Origin too.

If you aren't, I'll stay behind and distract our pursuers while you make the run to freedom, only one of us needs to get out alive.

Ys IX, the soundtrack had no "spine" to it IMO. It blended together because it was sounds without a backbone guiding them into a coherent melody. Ys Seven and Celceta, I can't really say any of it has stuck with me, I feel like I need to go back later and give it a listen to online.

Ys VIII, I didn't forget it entirely after completion, it was definitely more memorable. Although one of the tracks that stuck in my head was Iclucian Dance, which isn't a rock tune. Red Line -021- was a pure rock composition that did stick in me, but for the very-wrong reason of me getting sick of the defense battles (although some/much of this sickness to the point of wanting to take a shotgun to the annoying parrot is very possibly fake, added by my brain long after the fact, blame IX for bring the defense battles back and totally ruining them for me). Now that I've spent time listening to the OST online long after playing it, the Lacrimosa soundtrack is well-planted in my skull (possibly because rediscovered it when I was a little emotionally wrecked).

But the first gut reason I was willing to come to your defense wasn't Ys. It was this.:

Devil Survivor 1's small soundtrack went too heavy on the electric guitar and overall electric tone. Some nice hits, but it gets samey recreationally listening to it outside of the game itself. Which is why I prefer Devil Survivor 2's larger (~20 vs. ~35) and more diverse OST. Rock (nor orchestra, nor chiptune, nor anything else) does a good soundtrack inherently make.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Interdimensional Observer