Not Changed by VASM :( Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 If your poor and you steal from the rich that is TOTALLY justified. If it's any other circumstance it's not justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Thank you for uh, clarifying that? In other words, no, stealing is not always wrong. I'm contesting your point that it is still wrong. That appeared on my health class paper It is a classic moral paradox; a way to enhance the argument and make the answer far less possible to answer is to alter it such that the doctor does not sell the medicine for less because he has an ailing wife that will otherwise die if not given the proper surgerythat is morbidly expensive for him to obtain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Shards Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 In other words, no, stealing is not always wrong. I'm contesting your point that it is still wrong. And that gets you anywhere how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) And that gets you anywhere how? Why are you replying in such a cryptic manner? I am telling you that I find that the act is not wrong, based on the situation he is in. Edited November 24, 2008 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnell Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I think stealing is wrong in just about all cases, but there are small few where it isn't. But then again I don't think it should have too harsh of a punishment anytime, unless you stole something super important or valuable. Stealing a candy bar shouldn't be punished with life in prison. If you are considering the situation about your wife from above, whatever punishment you get for stealing would be worth it to save your wife's life. I think stealing there is justified, although you should work as hard as possible to find another way. I think that the U.S. laws do a pretty good job of covering stealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSu Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I've stolen. It's not a good thing to do, and usually ends badly. Also, being stolen from never feels good. I stole 50cent donuts :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I've stolen. It's not a good thing to do, and usually ends badly. Also, being stolen from never feels good.I stole 50cent donuts :o From the store I worked at -__- TOTALLY DID NOT GIVE HIM SAID DONUTS WHILE WORKING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSu Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Wrong as it may be, it's not like they're gonna go bankrupt from 50cents. AND DON'T GIVE ME THE WHOLE "IF EVERYONE DOES IT IT ADDS UP!" STUFF. I know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Wrong as it may be, it's not like they're gonna go bankrupt from 50cents. AND DON'T GIVE ME THE WHOLE "IF EVERYONE DOES IT IT ADDS UP!" STUFF. I know this. too bad a shit load of the employees stole on a daily basis. found out that they cost the store over 10,000 bucks on a yearly basis and these were those long time employees who worked for like 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSu Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 too bad a shit load of the employees stole on a daily basis. found out that they cost the store over 10,000 bucks on a yearly basis and these were those long time employees who worked for like 20 years That sux. I didn't really steal anything else. I've only taken those donuts and occasionally nabbed some food from my friends when I was REALLY young. Like, right in from of their faces XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masu Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 That sux. I didn't really steal anything else. I've only taken those donuts and occasionally nabbed some food from my friends when I was REALLY young. Like, right in from of their faces XD oh when i heard about it i rofled since i hated the place. I shouted "Serves you asses right!" and quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Shards Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Why are you replying in such a cryptic manner? I am telling you that I find that the act is not wrong, based on the situation he is in. Cryptic implies I'm leaving something out, that there is a hidden meaning. There isn't. You disagreeing with me gets you nowhere. Anyway, to further expound on what I mean: your example of saving the wife relies on intention meaning something. To me, it does not make an action moral. It makes it less immoral, and I would be more willing to give someone who stole for someone else (for example, to save them from harm) less time in prison than I would someone who stole because they felt like it or wanted whatever the other person had, but either way the action itself is still immoral. Basically, I have a right to my things, just as you have a right to yours. Unless I transfer my rights to you, stealing from me is wrong. If you have a "noble" reason, you will be (perhaps) entitled to less of a punishment, but no one should go without punishment for stealing. Here is an example to illustrate my point. Here are two situations: Situation One: Robin Hood steals from the rich and gives it to the poor. He does this because the rich are exploiting the poor to the point of near-slavery. They have not earned what riches they have received. Situation Two: Robin Hood steals from the rich and gives it to the poor. He does this because he has a grudge against a rich man in the town. Which situation is moral? The answer is neither. Situation One is less immoral, but by no means is it moral. Stealing is still wrong, but I would be more lenient on the Robin Hood in Situation One than in Situation Two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I steal almost every day. It's a hobby of mine. Downloading music, mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Well that's just silly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Cryptic implies I'm leaving something out, that there is a hidden meaning. There isn't. Alright, then allow me to alter my previous message: "Why in the hell are you making zero sense whatsoever?" You disagreeing with me gets you nowhere. I can't tell whether you are attempting to point out that you're not my opponent in the debate, or haughtily assume a position of superiority. And while it looks like the latter, I'm hoping it is the former. Anyway, to further expound on what I mean: your example of saving the wife relies on intention meaning something. To me, it does not make an action moral. It makes it less immoral, and I would be more willing to give someone who stole for someone else (for example, to save them from harm) less time in prison than I would someone who stole because they felt like it or wanted whatever the other person had, but either way the action itself is still immoral. I don't find his actions immoral at all, based on the fact that his inaction would require the death of another, one that is innocent. Is what he did illegal? Hell yes. Is what he did wrong? No, not in my eyes, and were I to know the man, I would probably try to help him steal the medication. Basically, I have a right to my things, just as you have a right to yours. Unless I transfer my rights to you, stealing from me is wrong. If you have a "noble" reason, you will be (perhaps) entitled to less of a punishment, but no one should go without punishment for stealing. I would agree that a law requires one to be punished for theft, but I in no way personally agree with such a ruling, as there are situations where I would find it morally fair to steal something. Situation One: Robin Hood steals from the rich and gives it to the poor. He does this because the rich are exploiting the poor to the point of near-slavery. They have not earned what riches they have received.Situation Two: Robin Hood steals from the rich and gives it to the poor. He does this because he has a grudge against a rich man in the town. Which situation is moral? The answer is neither. Situation One is less immoral, but by no means is it moral. Stealing is still wrong, but I would be more lenient on the Robin Hood in Situation One than in Situation Two. I don't find the act of stealing from the rich (the rich in Robin Hood, of course, not all rich are intrinsically deserving of theft) to equalize the situation and help others to be bad. I find that to in fact be a good thing. Edited November 24, 2008 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Shards Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I meant the former, for your information. You should know me well enough by now to realize that... You agree with socialism (or communism, depending on who does the stealing)? That's... highly disappointing. I guess then there's no point in continuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) I meant the former, for your information. You should know me well enough by now to realize that... I argue on a daily basis with very rude individuals. Assuming the worst has come to be a habit, sadly. You agree with socialism (or communism, depending on who does the stealing)? That's... highly disappointing. I guess then there's no point in continuing. Do I agree with the idea of stealing money from those that only harm others and giving it to people that need it? Yes. Would I help in such situations? It varies widely. Being rich doesn't make someone wicked in my eyes, but to call the theft of the rich in Robin Hood wrong, who forced others into very horrible living conditions and hoarded their resources when people were suffering, is unfair, and only holding onto the idea that stealing is bad for the sake of keeping it black and white. This does not in any way necessarily mean that I am a communist, or even a socialist. It just means that I judge the idea of stealing and its position in terms of good and bad on a case by case system; I can't just say that all stealing is bad, because I don't agree with that position. It is far too black and white for morality. Edited November 24, 2008 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Shards Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) The point of the first situation is not to make everyone equal. It is an (admittedly immoral) attempt to equalize the situation, not just hand out money to people because they're poorer. But I see you edited your post after I already started posting mine, so I did not catch the part where you clarify "the rich" being "the rich in the Robin Hood example." I'm sure you can see where the misunderstanding comes from. Again, I'm not saying that everyone who steals should be punished equally; it does go by a case-by-case basis. However, stealing is in itself inherently wrong (for reasons I've laid out now at least twice) and therefore it will always be immoral. HOW immoral stealing is, of course, is judged by intent. Edited November 24, 2008 by Crystal Shards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) The point of the first situation is not to make everyone equal. It is an (admittedly immoral) attempt to equalize the situation, not just hand out money to people because they're poorer. But I see you edited your post after I already started posting mine, so I did not catch the part where you clarify "the rich" being "the rich in the Robin Hood example." I'm sure you can see where the misunderstanding comes from. I saw the rich and how it could be easily misunderstood, so I had to change it. My bad. Again, I'm not saying that everyone who steals should be punished equally; it does go by a case-by-case basis. However, stealing is in itself inherently wrong (for reasons I've laid out now at least twice) and therefore it will always be immoral. HOW immoral stealing is, of course, is judged by intent. Then I have to respectfully disagree, because I don't find it inherently wrong. Edited November 24, 2008 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Would you be opposed if I stole your identity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Would you be opposed if I stole your identity? Who is this addressing? Edited November 24, 2008 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Hero Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 If I had enough time, I would go up to each and every person who has ever stolen from someone else, and I would stab them to death and make it as painful as I could; just beat the shit out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 If I had enough time, I would go up to each and every person who has ever stolen from someone else, and I would stab them to death and make it as painful as I could; just beat the shit out of them. Even if they were dirt poor, stealing just to survive? And, I doubt you would stab them to death, since you are probably too cowardly to actually kill someone like that. So enough with your tough guy act. You simply cannot grasp the rainbow of morality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Troll feeds troll. How ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 (edited) Meteor, you've already been warned verbally for spamming at least once. Edited November 24, 2008 by VincentASM Lol, epic typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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