Would you rather have?

[ciphertul]

Would you rather have post game content or new game plus in the next main line FE? I doubt that both will happen so try to stick with one or the other.

I personally would like a better new game plus system for the next game. I think they could do all sorts of fun thing with it like being able to modify different things.

Edited February 1, 2022 by ciphertul
Completely wrong word.

[joevar]

42 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I personally would like a better new game play system for the next game

just to be sure, you meant new game plus there, right? else you're asking between A or B while picking C...

----------------------

as for the question, i prefer post game content. but definitely not how they handled it before. (pricey dlc, detached from endings, lots of retcon, non committal story, giving more question than answer, and other nonsense)

but more of "after story" and "what happen next" when the stake are no longer high, the relationship are not just established but solid, and also adding more world building context that wouldnt make much sense explored in main campaign. (such as places that MC and gang never had any business with previously to win the main conflict)

Edited February 1, 2022 by joevar

[ciphertul]

4 minutes ago, joevar said:

just to be sure, you meant new game plus there, right? else you're asking between A or B while picking C...

 

Yes, I meant New game plus. Bad connection and old phone don’t help when trying to spell correctly.

[Use the Falchion]

I'd prefer both, and I think both is possible. You beat the game, have a lot of things you can do after you beat it, and then carry over some bonuses (some of which can be gained in the post-game) to NG+. 

If I had to choose one, probably NG+, assuming the game has good replay value in it and multiple saves. If it's just one save file ala Pokemon, then post-game stuff. 

[Benice]

Depending on the game, I'd answer differently. If it's a game that is supposed to be based on replayability ot having multiple routes like in Three Houses, I wouldn't want much of a meaty postgame because I fear that it'd make each route too long, not to mention the effort that would have to go into it. NG+ would be preferable for me in those types of games, whether it be allowing weirder things to happen in the gameplay or simply making it more difficult like in Souls games, changing the experience from route to route would really help me want to experience every route.

If there aren't a ton of routes, I think that a postgame would be neat. Even if it's fairly short and just following up on the characters and world instead of just having ending cards, that'd be cool. Something like a CC would be neat as well, provided that we could have some semblance of story or somthing to it as well. I think that a postgame could be really good for worldbuilding as well if it's done right.

I think that overall I'd prefer a postgame rather than a NG+, but I'd really want to see effort in the postgame to add to the game's content, not just the hours.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

New Game, if the game is built like Awakening, Fates or TH - that is skills, ressources etc.

Postgame doesn´t seem like it lends itself well to the FE formula is how I´d put it - the finale is, or I guess should be (in my eyes) the culmination of enemy strength. Though I guess it might be nice for the character/story enjoyers.

[Metal Flash]

2 hours ago, joevar said:

but more of "after story" and "what happen next" when the stake are no longer high, the relationship are not just established but solid, and also adding more world building context that wouldnt make much sense explored in main campaign. (such as places that MC and gang never had any business with previously to win the main conflict)

I would like to see this too. FE has been lacking in the Post Game department so something like this would be cool.

[LoneStar]

FE games tend to have NG+, but since I rarely use those features, I'd like more post-game content. Hopefully this post-game content scales well since I haven't cleared Shadows of Valentia's post game because of the level jump, but I guess this is a problem on my part since I was "mister use everybody" in the main campaign.

@joevar Mentioned the main issues with this route, but if it can be done well I'd like it. Some of the issue probably comes from how well the developers planned to implement the post-game content rather than using DLC as a shoehorn method.

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, LoneStar said:

FE games tend to have NG+

Three Houses is the only one with an actual NG+. 

[Yexin]

NG+, as i think post game content is a thing the FE series should definitely stay away from unless we're back to Grinding Emblem

i'd like said NG+ to give you access to more items, weapons and the likes to play with, in order to make your next playthroughs much more unique and personalizable (similarly to what PoR did with Band accessories)

Edited February 1, 2022 by Yexin

[LoneStar]

29 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Three Houses is the only one with an actual NG+. 

I think I was considering Fates' logbook units for skills, but I guess that's a stretch.

[ciphertul]

Just now, LoneStar said:

I think I was considering Fates' logbook units for skills, but I guess that's a stretch.

Even Awakening's log book was open even before beating the game, so I wouldn't call it NG+.

[Azz]

NG+. I personally don't feel FE is quite suited to a post-game unless it's very specific (like SoV) or has DLC created to be tackled post-game, like Apothesis in FEA. After NG+ in TH, I'd really like to see something like it again. It made replaying it much more fun than other FEs for me and allowed you to more easily experiment with different unit combinations and overall was a very fun experience (which I'd hope it would be considering I have 800 hours in TH lol).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, ciphertul said:

Three Houses is the only one with an actual NG+. 

Not true. 3H may be the first to explicitly label it as an "NG+", but plenty of previous games in the series have features that aren't available on the first playthrough.

• In FE7, Hector's Story can only be played after beating Eliwood's Story.
• In Path of Radiance, items like the Fighter Band and Priest Band are only available on subsequent playthroughs. As is Fixed Growths Mode.
• In Radiant Dawn, Pelleas and Sephiran are only playable after beating the game at least once.
• In Awakening, Lunatic+ difficulty only becomes available after beating the game on Lunatic.

[ciphertul]

Just now, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not true. 3H may be the first to explicitly label it as an "NG+", but plenty of previous games in the series have features that aren't available on the first playthrough.

• In FE7, Hector's Story can only be played after beating Eliwood's Story.
• In Path of Radiance, items like the Fighter Band and Priest Band are only available on subsequent playthroughs. As is Fixed Growths Mode.
• In Radiant Dawn, Pelleas and Sephiran are only playable after beating the game at least once.
• In Awakening, Lunatic+ difficulty only becomes available after beating the game on Lunatic.

Completion bonus isn't the same as new game plus.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Completion bonus isn't the same as new game plus.

My definition of "New Game Plus" is "differences becoming available on subsequent playthroughs after completing the game once". If a difficulty mode or playable characters are locked behind beating the game at least once, that's New Game Plus.

How would you define it?

[ciphertul]

Just now, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

My definition of "New Game Plus" is "differences becoming available on subsequent playthroughs after completing the game once". If a difficulty mode or playable characters are locked behind beating the game at least once, that's New Game Plus.

How would you define it?

Carrying over benefits, of things already had, when starting the game. Even in Dark Souls while the game gets hard you keep everything you already had, does that hold true for the FEs you stated?

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

Carrying over benefits, of things already had, when starting the game. Even in Dark Souls while the game gets hard you keep everything you already had, does that hold true for the FEs you stated?

That seems like a particularly narrow definition, by which, the version of New Game Plus in Three Houses wouldn't even fit. Sure, you keep battalions, and can buy back class masteries, skill ranks, and supports. But you don't carry over the weapons, items, or gold over to the next playthrough - much less accrued experience and levels.

Is the argument that, for it to count as New Game Plus, the elements that are made available in subsequent playthroughs must depend on particulars of your performance in the prior one?

[lenticular]

NG+ for me. I think that postgame generally works better in games that are less focused on a single objective. In something like Pokémon, it makes sense for me to want to keep playing after I've beaten the Elite Four because that wasn't the only thing I was trying to do. Sure, I'm the league champion, but I was also trying to complete the pokédex, maybe I was shiny hunting, maybe I was breeding, doing contests, etc. It makes sense to want to keep on playing, and if there are a few extra story beats that happen while I'm doing that other stuff, so much the better. Or take something like The Elder Scrolls. The main quest line is such a minor focus of those games, and there's so much else to do, so of course you want to carry on playing after "winning" to finish off all of those other things. Postgame really makes a lot of sense there as well.

But for something like Fire Emblem, that isn't really there. Throughout the whole of the game, there was only one thing that I was doing, and that thing is now done. I guess maybe you could say that building up character relationships is a side activity, but it's much more minor than completing the pokédex or joining the Thieves Guild (for instance). FE games are also typically structured so that you can finish any support chains you were interested in before the end of the game without any real difficulty. You could also say that completing character builds is a secondary activity, but that's something that I see mostly as a means to an end rather than an end in itself. So there's nothing really left to do, so why would I want to keep on playing?

There is the possibility of just adding new extra story (as in SoV), but then that runs the risk of running into one of two problems. Either it feels tacked on, disconnected an unimportant, in which case why bother? Or else it feels like it's an integral part of the story which could and should have been part of the main campaign, in which case, why wasn't it?

[ciphertul]

Just now, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That seems like a particularly narrow definition, by which, the version of New Game Plus in Three Houses wouldn't even fit. Sure, you keep battalions, and can buy back class masteries, skill ranks, and supports. But you don't carry over the weapons, items, or gold over to the next playthrough - much less accrued experience and levels.

Is the argument that, for it to count as New Game Plus, the elements that are made available in subsequent playthroughs must depend on particulars of your performance in the prior one?

I never said you carry over all content, but you have to carry over something. Everyone you brought up has a completion bonus as in something unlock by beating the game.

[vanguard333]

I almost never use either, so I'm not sure which one I would prefer.

[ciphertul]

2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I almost never use either, so I'm not sure which one I would prefer.

Are you the kind of player who just finishes the story and calls it done for that game?

[vanguard333]

Just now, ciphertul said:

Are you the kind of player who just finishes the story and calls it done for that game?

It honestly depends on the game. There are a number of games with postgame content that I enjoyed (the Mega Man Star Force games come to mind); I just rarely find that to be the case for Fire Emblem games. I did play the trial maps of Path of Radiance a few times, but I grew bored of them, and Path of Radiance is my favourite Fire Emblem game.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

14 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I never said you carry over all content, but you have to carry over something. Everyone you brought up has a completion bonus as in something unlock by beating the game.

Okay. If that's the definition you're working from, then... I guess neither? I like having a "completion bonus" that changes the game the next time you play through it. But I don't necessarily want that to be something "carried over" from a previous playthrough. As for a "postgame", I feel like it works decently well in Echoes and Sacred Stones. But those games are notable for having a map system and frequent monster enemies. If the next game doesn't have either of those, I'm not sure they could do a postgame that feels natural and fitting.

[ciphertul]

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Okay. If that's the definition you're working from, then... I guess neither? I like having a "completion bonus" that changes the game the next time you play through it. But I don't necessarily want that to be something "carried over" from a previous playthrough. As for a "postgame", I feel like it works decently well in Echoes and Sacred Stones. But those games are notable for having a map system and frequent monster enemies. If the next game doesn't have either of those, I'm not sure they could do a postgame that feels natural and fitting.

You seem to keep taking it in extremes, take Trails of Cold Steel for an example. When you beat the game you get bonus points as a completion bonus you use those bonus point to carry certain things into new game plus but you neither lose those bonus point nor do you have to use them. New game plus shouldn't be forced if you don't want to use it.