Wintails Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 What if instead of the usual square-based grid, the new game used hexagonal spaces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafarer Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Yes. See also: Berwick Saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 25 minutes ago, Seafarer said: Yes. See also: Berwick Saga. While I personally think the answer is yes, Berwick Saga is different in quite a few ways from Fire Emblem, and at least one of those changes hints at why it might not work in a more traditional Fire Emblem game. In particular I mean the way Berwock Saga has an player-enemy based initiative order, instead of a player-enemy phase system. The two biggest changes Fire Emblem with hexagons would have is an increase in the number of hits it is possible to take on enemy phase, and how many units it takes to block off access to your squishy units from your enemies, and both of those issues are mitigated by the initiative system of Berwick saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said: While I personally think the answer is yes, Berwick Saga is different in quite a few ways from Fire Emblem, and at least one of those changes hints at why it might not work in a more traditional Fire Emblem game. In particular I mean the way Berwock Saga has an player-enemy based initiative order, instead of a player-enemy phase system. The two biggest changes Fire Emblem with hexagons would have is an increase in the number of hits it is possible to take on enemy phase, and how many units it takes to block off access to your squishy units from your enemies, and both of those issues are mitigated by the initiative system of Berwick saga. Would Fire Emblem cease to be Fire Emblem if it took on such a turn order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair General Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 Might work if you could field more units. But stuff like Pass or Canto will be an bitch to actually use, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Use the Falchion Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 I think it could work, but I'd probably like to see it in an FE spin-off first. (Not counting Berwick Saga, since I don't consider that an FE spin-off. It's more of a sibling to FE than a spin-off.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltosian Kadath Posted July 10, 2022 Share Posted July 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Jotari said: Would Fire Emblem cease to be Fire Emblem if it took on such a turn order? From playing Berwick Saga, I think it does. That is one of the biggest things which makes Berwick Saga feel like something distinct from a Fire Emblem game, whereas the other Kaga Sagas have the feel of Fire Emblem games. Not all SRPGs feel like Fire Emblem games, and I think that player-phase followed by enemy phase dynamic is an important part (although not the only thing) to making an SRPG feel like a Fire Emblem game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joevar Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) yes it could, why not? the only thing holding it back im sure is the amount of thinking they had to pour in rebalancing the mechanic such as ranges of attack, movement, stuff like that. other than that everything should work fine dont just stop at Berwick saga to look for Hexagon battle strategy. Literally every 4X4 strategy game in PC in the last decade use Hexagonal grid + Player-enemy phase system in their action or battle. the most famous example is Civilization series and Endless series. rather than hexagon i would actually ask: what if Fire emblem forego grid altogether and just straight up use actual range measurement (for attack, movement, etc). something like SEGA-made SRPG. Edited July 31, 2022 by joevar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 1 hour ago, joevar said: dont just stop at Berwick saga to look for Hexagon battle strategy. Literally every 4X4 strategy game in PC in the last decade use Hexagonal grid + Player-enemy phase system in their action or battle. the most famous example is Civilization series and Endless series. For Civ in particular, it's notable that the change from a square grid to a hex grid coincided with a complete overhaul of how combat in the series worked, with the switch over to one unit per tile. I'd also say that the change didn't go over entirely without a hitch. The launch version of Civ V was pretty damn mediocre; it only got good after various patches, expansions, and DLCs. And even now, at the end of the lifecycle of Civ VI, there are still some issues that haven't been addressed. The AI is still woefully bad at handling one unit per tile, for instance. So, with that in mind, my answer to the original question is that yes, it could probably be made to work, but that there would doubtless be teething problems along the way. So it certainly isn't something that I would like to see done just for the sake of doing it, but only if it's a coherent part of some larger overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joevar Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, lenticular said: So, with that in mind, my answer to the original question is that yes, it could probably be made to work, but that there would doubtless be teething problems along the way. So it certainly isn't something that I would like to see done just for the sake of doing it, but only if it's a coherent part of some larger overhaul. agree. to make it work? im 100% sure its easy. to make it balanced like square grid? theres a lot of work/thinking to be done the most obvious problem will be pathing. thankfully FE didnt use "wait" direction into factor of gameplay (unless im remembering it wrong), which could be massive headache. imagine geting backstabbed by 3 enemy unit at once. as for Civ situation, imo its the necessary phases. it gets better and more refined after all. so im sure FE can do it too if they are going to experiment Edited July 31, 2022 by joevar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 In the usual FE setting? Hell nah. The amount of damage you´d enable via ranged attacks alone and when considering we have 2.5 damage types, would be tremendous. Hexagonal tiles would lend themselves better to games with larger casts and potentially greater deployment slots I´d imagine, since these units would actually get to do something. I am perplexed by the suggestions of initiative-based gameplay - is speed not yet good enough of a stat? Units with high speed tend to be pretty good, this would just make them even better since they´d act more often, while the slow people would fall even further. 3 Archers in a civ game make for an impenetrable fortress, technological discrepancies not accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 Instead of going bigger, go smaller with the dimensions. Triangles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 9 hours ago, Imuabicus said: I am perplexed by the suggestions of initiative-based gameplay - is speed not yet good enough of a stat? Berwick Saga, which is the game that been cited on this in this topic, doesn't use speed to determine unit order. The game evenly alternates between the player army, enemies, and NPCs, represented by blue, red, and green icons shown in the upper right corner of the screen. Each icon you get can be used on anyone, but each unit can only act once per turn. When every unit has been given an opportunity to act, the turn ends and another begins. On that next turn, you're again free to move everyone as you please. Furthermore, Berwick changes it such that counterattacks aren't guaranteed. If the unit that began the battle hits, the enemy 90% of the time cannot counterattack even if they have the weapon range that would allow it. If the attacked dodged and have the correct weapon range, then they get a chance to counter, and if they miss, the attacker usually gets a chance to strike again, and regardless of whether or not they hit, the battle ends. It's a fairly unique system, one that doesn't make soloing everything on the enemy phase impossible (hellloooo Sherpa!), but it is much more difficult than typical Fire Emblem. It also nerfs Spd to an extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 I've played plenty of strategy RPGs with hexes and I don't think they play fundamentally differently than those with square grids. Obviously Fire Emblem could work. I have a slight preference for square grids because the controls for moving around one are nicer, but I won't be upset if they decided to switch it up for a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jotari said: Instead of going bigger, go smaller with the dimensions. Triangles! Why stop there? Gridless! Example: Can't argue about the composition of the grid is there's no grid. --- Anyway, it would be interesting to see bestagons hexagons in FE. Edited August 1, 2022 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said: Why stop there? Gridless! Example: Can't argue about the composition of the grid is there's no grid. --- Anyway, it would be interesting to see bestagons hexagons in FE. Just turn Fire Emblem into the dating system if clearly wants to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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