New Heroes: Rearmed Robin & More

[Sunwoo]

Honestly the more I think about it, while I don't have an issue with Phila being in Heroes, I have a slight issue with her being on this specific banner. I think it's pretty clear that IS would prefer to release "literal who" female NPCs and bosses like Annand or Arete or Dithorba or Phila over actual playable male characters who are more popular than they are. But if the female factor is really such a big deal for them, Phila was wasted here anyway because this banner literally was going to be carried by Ascended Eir and Rearmed female Grima anyway. They already had their two hard-hitting female characters who were going to bring in the money. Phila should've just been Vaike or Kellam this time and she could've showed up on the next first gen Awakening banner.

IS is running out of female characters not only because there are fewer of them, but because they refuse to or are completely incapable of using them intelligently.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Honestly the more I think about it, while I don't have an issue with Phila being in Heroes, I have a slight issue with her being on this specific banner. I think it's pretty clear that IS would prefer to release "literal who" female NPCs and bosses like Annand or Arete or Dithorba or Phila over actual playable male characters who are more popular than they are. But if the female factor is really such a big deal for them, Phila was wasted here anyway because this banner literally was going to be carried by Ascended Eir and Rearmed female Grima anyway. They already had their two hard-hitting female characters who were going to bring in the money. Phila should've just been Vaike or Kellam this time and she could've showed up on the next first gen Awakening banner.

IS is running out of female characters not only because there are fewer of them, but because they refuse to or are completely incapable of using them intelligently.

I kind of object to Arete on that list. Arete is Azura's mother, that's a pretty big deal in terms of plot, and even in terms of combat you fight her like four or five times throughout Fates. I don't think she ever managed to carve herself out as particularly memorable a character (mostly down to them being needlessly coy with her actual identity), but she is certainly an important one. She was also a GHB unit and not a banner unit, and thus was not marketed as directly tot he audience (Annand was GHB too, which makes her inclusion all the more confusing imo, would a GHB Armoured Mage Maios really be too unfeasible?).

Beyond that, I'm not sure Phila's gender really was even a consideration for this banner. Plainly put, they needed a trash unit to use as an instant demote, and she, being a bit of a throwaway character anyway, was the perfect fit. If it had been Vaike or Kellam then it would have been Vaike or Kellam with no exclusive skills or weapons. Like I said in my first pos ton this thread, Phila could have been an interesting unit, she could have made use of Falcon Knight having Staves in Awakening to be a Staff flier, but she got treated basically the same way she's treated in Awakening, which is like nothing. Would I want to see Vaike on this banner with nothing and Phila on the next where she's a flier with Balmwood Staff? Well, a little bit if they're going to make her an interesting flier (maybe a really good effect, but she gives bow weakness to her allies in reference to her death), but I honestly don't expect them to be that creative and it would still be a bit contrived as we never see her use staves, so it was never going to happen, and a toss up between trash Phila lance flier this banner and great Phila lance flier next banner in exchange for trash Vaike this banner and moderately good Vaike this banner, I'd rather go with moderately good Vaike. If anyone deserves to be gone after for their gender this banner, I feel it's more Robin than Phila.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

(Annand was GHB too, which makes her inclusion all the more confusing imo, would a GHB Armoured Mage Maios really be too unfeasible?).

Annand was on the banner for that batch of Genealogy characters, Dithorba was the GHB.

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I kind of object to Arete on that list. Arete is Azura's mother, that's a pretty big deal in terms of plot, and even in terms of combat you fight her like four or five times throughout Fates. I don't think she ever managed to carve herself out as particularly memorable a character (mostly down to them being needlessly coy with her actual identity), but she is certainly an important one. She was also a GHB unit and not a banner unit, and thus was not marketed as directly tot he audience (Annand was GHB too, which makes her inclusion all the more confusing imo, would a GHB Armoured Mage Maios really be too unfeasible?).

Beyond that, I'm not sure Phila's gender really was even a consideration for this banner. Plainly put, they needed a trash unit to use as an instant demote, and she, being a bit of a throwaway character anyway, was the perfect fit. If it had been Vaike or Kellam then it would have been Vaike or Kellam with no exclusive skills or weapons. Like I said in my first pos ton this thread, Phila could have been an interesting unit, she could have made use of Falcon Knight having Staves in Awakening to be a Staff flier, but she got treated basically the same way she's treated in Awakening, which is like nothing. Would I want to see Vaike on this banner with nothing and Phila on the next where she's a flier with Balmwood Staff? Well, a little bit if they're going to make her an interesting flier (maybe a really good effect, but she gives bow weakness to her allies in reference to her death), but I honestly don't expect them to be that creative and it would still be a bit contrived as we never see her use staves, so it was never going to happen, and a toss up between trash Phila lance flier this banner and great Phila lance flier next banner in exchange for trash Vaike this banner and moderately good Vaike this banner, I'd rather go with moderately good Vaike. If anyone deserves to be gone after for their gender this banner, I feel it's more Robin than Phila.

Arete would've been more thematically appropriate on a banner with base Mikoto and Sumeragi, perhaps axe Garon or Scarlet depending on which theme you wanted to go with I guess. Kinda would've preferred Shura as the GHB for that one banner.

I'm also not entirely convinced that Phila being the "trash demote" means that Vaike and/or Kellam would be amazing when they're released on a future Awakening banner. No complaints if he does, but Vaike could still be the trash demote of his own banner and all we did was delay him one year.

[Jotari]

45 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Arete would've been more thematically appropriate on a banner with base Mikoto and Sumeragi, perhaps axe Garon or Scarlet depending on which theme you wanted to go with I guess. Kinda would've preferred Shura as the GHB for that one banner.

I'm also not entirely convinced that Phila being the "trash demote" means that Vaike and/or Kellam would be amazing when they're released on a future Awakening banner. No complaints if he does, but Vaike could still be the trash demote of his own banner and all we did was delay him one year.

Very possible. But what it comes down to is (and personally I think it's terrible that it is this way, not every unit needs to be envelope pushing amazing, but I think you can make even weaker more widely available units more interesting)  every banner needs a trash tier demote unit, and Phila, being an NPC of somewhat marginal importance, fits that position very well. I don't expect Kellam or Vaike to be amazing, I expect them to be Gregor. Decent and introducing some kind of new skill. But maybe Vaike will be the demote so they can push Ascended Sumia and Rearmed Sully or something (Kellam I expect less since I reckon they will give him some kind of prf based around his gimmick). But substituting trash Phila now with Trash Vaike now and pushing another one to the other banner doesn't exactly accomplish much other than getting one of them in the game faster (though if that were the case it would leave Kellam alone as the last gen 1 character which is kind of hilarious, he also could possibly be the last Awakening character entirely). Vaike also might not be poor quality unit, if they're insisting on splitting the generations, we could end up with someone like Raimi filling the banner as a instant demote (otherwise known as Bassilo's Phila). Course they might use Trickster Anna too as the middling unit to push Vaike out. One way or the other, the system demands the sacrifices of instant demotes and Phila already fits the bill by being a bit of a throwaway character. I also wouldn't be certain the next banner isn't going to be filled with women either.

2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Annand was on the banner for that batch of Genealogy characters, Dithorba was the GHB.

Derp. That's who I meant. I was even just talking specifically about her in the other thread.

[Othin]

6 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Arete would've been more thematically appropriate on a banner with base Mikoto and Sumeragi, perhaps axe Garon or Scarlet depending on which theme you wanted to go with I guess. Kinda would've preferred Shura as the GHB for that one banner.

I'm also not entirely convinced that Phila being the "trash demote" means that Vaike and/or Kellam would be amazing when they're released on a future Awakening banner. No complaints if he does, but Vaike could still be the trash demote of his own banner and all we did was delay him one year.

Even if the same characters would be demotes either way, one possible motivation for putting Phila first is so that not all of the regular units would be male. Some games are heading into the territory where that's unavoidable, but Awakening still has Severa, Noire, and potentially Trickster Anna, which is enough to last until they exhaust its roster completely.

[Magenta Fantasies]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:56 PM, Sunwoo said:

Arete would've been more thematically appropriate on a banner with base Mikoto and Sumeragi, perhaps axe Garon or Scarlet depending on which theme you wanted to go with I guess. Kinda would've preferred Shura as the GHB for that one banner.

I'm also not entirely convinced that Phila being the "trash demote" means that Vaike and/or Kellam would be amazing when they're released on a future Awakening banner. No complaints if he does, but Vaike could still be the trash demote of his own banner and all we did was delay him one year.

When that Fates banner was released last year, I was VERY disappointed that Shura wasn’t the GHB unit. I really hope he is on the next Fates banner in some form or another.

I’m skeptical that Vaike or Kellam will be amazing units; I expect them to be around the same tier as Gregor. Chances are, they will be overshadowed by either Severa or Inigo, who are much more popular characters. Although I was very pleasantly surprised by Astrid on last year’s Tellius banner; she’s one of my best units.

 

[Troykv]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:25 AM, Othin said:

Even if the same characters would be demotes either way, one possible motivation for putting Phila first is so that not all of the regular units would be male. Some games are heading into the territory where that's unavoidable, but Awakening still has Severa, Noire, and potentially Trickster Anna, which is enough to last until they exhaust its roster completely.

Oh yeah, that reminds me that Ascended Florina's banner was the first update that was technically like this (well, unless we count Letizia as a new character), because the FE7 inclussions were all guys (Sain, Kent and Guy) or Limstella (they're their own thing).

And more recently we had the case with Ascended Celica's banner, where the only new girl was Ymir (the guys were Kamui, Atlas and Boss), which makes sense considering it's literally impossible for Gaiden to add new girls without going into NPC territory.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Troykv

[Othin]

5 minutes ago, Troykv said:

Oh yeah, that reminds me that Ascended Florina's banner was the first update that was technically like this (well, unless we count Letizia as a new character), because the FE7 inclussions were all guys (Sain, Kent and Guy) or Limstella (they're their own thing).

And more recently we had the case with Ascended Celica's banner, where the only new girl was Ymir (the guys were Kamui, Atlas and Boss), which makes sense considering it's literally impossible for Gaiden to add new girls without going into NPC territory.

I'd argue that the FE2 banner did add one "regular" new girl in the form of Est, at least according to the criteria the past three FE2 banners have used for their lineups. But now even that pool has been exhausted.

[Sunwoo]

I'd be okay with getting normal Rinea if they really need another girl for SoV. Although I wish they'd paced out their existing female characters and female alts better. Valentian Palla did not have to be on the same banner as Nott.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Sunwoo

[Troykv]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

I'd argue that the FE2 banner did add one "regular" new girl in the form of Est, at least according to the criteria the past three FE2 banners have used for their lineups. But now even that pool has been exhausted.

Yeah, I was thinking the same, technicality Valentian Est was added, but regardless, now SoV can't chose any girls that are playable characters in the future.

So... Rinea and Irma as banner units in the next years? xD

Edited October 23, 2022 by Troykv

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Troykv said:

which makes sense considering it's literally impossible for Gaiden to add new girls without going into NPC territory.

Well they still have Cipher there too if they want to make use of three more girls. Though the nature of those characters means they  might not get in at all, and if they do get in, it'll probably be all four at once, even though spacing them out might be smarter.