Emblem Tier List

[Jotari]

I'm surprised no one has made a topic for this yet. Well, I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere, but I don't see a dedicated topic for it. So here goes.

I think the three best Emblems are Corrin, Lyn and Sigurd.

*Corrin's ability to just shut down enemy movement is just ridiculously useful and his special can should down entire crowds of enemies, giving you a lot more breathing room.

*Astra Storm really can save you in tight spots, especially when it comes to killing thieves. Though it always seems to frustratingly deal just little enough to actually kill the enemy, to the extent that even just moving beside Alear can make a difference. But Lyn's real utility comes from Speed Taker. I imagine this isn't nearly as important in lower difficulties, but in Maddening it becomes basically mandatory for your attackers to be able to kill enemies.

*Extra movement on anything is great, but like Lyn, Sigurd's main advantage comes from inheritance, as Canter is probably even better than speed taker. It gives more utility to more units and at it's level 1 stage is available for a crazy low investment. Basically everyone can get Canter and, while not the best skill on everyone, everyone appreciates it.

I think the next three best Embelms are Micaiah, Byleth and Celica (coincidentally the three magic Emblems, sort of)

*Micaiah is really good. Great Sacrifice can absolutely save you can do all manner of crazy things with increased staff range and effective tiles. But she's only good when Engaged, so between Engagements you're basically scrambling to get her abilities back again.

*I kept Byleth on a sage the entire time and the extra range granted when Engaged makes a huge difference. It's particularly fun to use Elsurge at range. But Byleth's real ability is a four way dance off. Battle deciding moments can be made based on what four units you can dance with when using Byleth. Which is a bit funny as Byleth's one of the handful of units that actually can't become a dancer in Three Houses!

*Celica's best asset isn't what it initially appears to be. In early game Warp Ragnarok looks cool and useful, but it never seems to do enough damage to kill, at least for me, and it leaves your unit exposed. No, I think Celica's best asset is actually Seraphim. Basically the last half of the game is against Corrupted, so Seraphim will always be dealing increased damage, to the extent that it's kind of just plain better than Ragnarok which you get later. Echo can also be very useful too as it allows for more opportunities to dual attack, fish for a crit and potentially kill two units with one character's turn. 

My third tier is dedicated to Marth, Eirika and Ike. 

*Ike can turn basically any unit into a tank, and that's really cool. He also has some of the best Engaged weapons with Urvan and Ragnell. I think Great Aether is not as good as it appears to be, however. And while tanking is very much useful, dodge tanking is by far more useful in this game.

*Marth and Eirika are a very offensive emblems. Which is good, and useful, but the game is so tough that it still doesn't really let you one round many enemies. It's the difference between dealing 50% of an enemies healthy and 75% of an enemy's health. 75% sounds better, but in reality it doesn't make a difference as you're still killing the enemy in two attacks. Marth can give some really good avoid skills, but he's hampered by his availability and the fact that you can get avoid in a bunch of different ways too. And too much avoid can paradoxically be a bad thing as if enemies can't hit you, they won't even try. Eirika might have one of the best skills in the game with Lunar Brace, if it didn't cost 3,000 sp to inherit, basically making it impossible to get without sacrificing everything else.

Lowest tier is home of Roy, Lucina and Leif. They're all still useful, but don't seem to come in clutch nearly as much.

*Roy provides attack, and that's definitely appreciated, but he feels less offensive than Eirika's defense ignoring and Marth's multi attacking. Leaving him with no real niche. And his special, Blazing Lion, is so inferior to Corrin's Dragon Veins it's basically funny.

*Leif swapping weapons sounds really cool in theory, and maybe I should have given him to a better unit, but I feel he's hampered by an unfortuante reality of this game. Forging is just really, really good. So good that a lot of Emblem weapons are left in the dust in comparison. Though at least he teaches everything, which is nice if you're into reclassing and willing to spend the bond fragments to grind levels with him.

*I've heard Lucina described as good on everyone, great on no one. And it's kind of true. Chain attacks from a distance, super appreciated. A more reliable Chain Guard when engaged that you can use multiple times, oh wow, nice...but I still need to kill things at the end of the day and she can only passively help with that. I really wish she had a better special than All for One, which seems very difficult to utilize effectively.

Unranked spoiler Emblem (not DLC, I don't know anything of them)

Spoiler

*Alear, I honestly have no idea. As I had Corrin on Alear and there was really nothing I could see being offered by Alear that would make Engaging more useful than using Corrin. Engaging to units at once, especially if the other unit doesn't have an Emblem of their own sounds good, but not as good as Corrin's Dreadful Aura.

 

So tell me what you agree and disagree with. Maybe some of the lower Emblems I've listed suffered a bit too much from who I decided to give them to.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Jotari

[LukeB]

I think that my only real complaint* is having Lucina at the bottom (*there are likely others that I would go up or down 1/2, but are in the right ball park)

I think that you are greatly diminishing the support power of her bonded shield. While yes, it can be described as " A more reliable Chain Guard when engaged that you can use multiple times, oh wow, nice..." the difference between Chain Guard and Bonded Shield are vast enough to completely change the options you have to approach a scenario. 

Hypothetical scenario: A choke point in range of 5 enemy units. Kagetsu can double, and kill all 5 of them, but dies to 2 enemy hits. Louis can survive multiple hits, but cannot kill any of them. 
Chain guard - Kagetsu cannot hold the choke point, he will die. You have to put Louis in that choke point instead, and he damages but does not kill, 3 of the units. 2 units left unscratched
Bonded Shield = Kagetsu can hold the choke point, and all 5 enemies will suicide into him. He takes 0 damage, and killed all 5 enemies. 

That is A LOT of increased offense for that turn, that only happened because of Lucina.

Obviously, in game scenarios are usually more complex, Lucina + 2 good offensive units can make an L formation, blocking a 2 tile wide choke point being the one that I had come up - and Lucina can do that! Guard two different units for the entire enemy phase, while Chain Guard turns off after the first hit. 

Lucina makes Enemy Phase Plays possible in a game where it is often hard to make enemy phase plays. 

She has a lot of other nice touches, like granting Backup attacks to units who would not other wise get them, ranged chain attacks, and using all for one to quickly rack up multiple stacks of poison on a boss

I feel like your reaction to her looks like it is saying that she lacks a delete button, and is therefore bad, but she is an excellent support, so damage is probably a poor way to evaluate her. 

[Jotari]

30 minutes ago, LukeB said:

I think that my only real complaint* is having Lucina at the bottom (*there are likely others that I would go up or down 1/2, but are in the right ball park)

I think that you are greatly diminishing the support power of her bonded shield. While yes, it can be described as " A more reliable Chain Guard when engaged that you can use multiple times, oh wow, nice..." the difference between Chain Guard and Bonded Shield are vast enough to completely change the options you have to approach a scenario. 

Hypothetical scenario: A choke point in range of 5 enemy units. Kagetsu can double, and kill all 5 of them, but dies to 2 enemy hits. Louis can survive multiple hits, but cannot kill any of them. 
Chain guard - Kagetsu cannot hold the choke point, he will die. You have to put Louis in that choke point instead, and he damages but does not kill, 3 of the units. 2 units left unscratched
Bonded Shield = Kagetsu can hold the choke point, and all 5 enemies will suicide into him. He takes 0 damage, and killed all 5 enemies. 

That is A LOT of increased offense for that turn, that only happened because of Lucina.

Obviously, in game scenarios are usually more complex, Lucina + 2 good offensive units can make an L formation, blocking a 2 tile wide choke point being the one that I had come up - and Lucina can do that! Guard two different units for the entire enemy phase, while Chain Guard turns off after the first hit. 

Lucina makes Enemy Phase Plays possible in a game where it is often hard to make enemy phase plays. 

She has a lot of other nice touches, like granting Backup attacks to units who would not other wise get them, ranged chain attacks, and using all for one to quickly rack up multiple stacks of poison on a boss

I feel like your reaction to her looks like it is saying that she lacks a delete button, and is therefore bad, but she is an excellent support, so damage is probably a poor way to evaluate her. 

I just don't find any of my units being able to one round enough for enemy phase even if they're invincible. And, sure enough, it's actually pretty easy to nake a unit invincible via avoid stacking, but at the end of the day killing things is whats required (and chain attacks dont activate for you on enemy phase iirc).

[LukeB]

Kagetsu with a max killing edge is the person that I used for that, he was pretty good at it one rounding a lot of unit types. 

 

The issue with avoid stacking is that enemies will just ignore your units, but with bonded shield the units do not care that they have a 0% chance to damage you

[Skyteppelin]

I think its alright although I personally wouldn't' rate sigurd so high cause outside of the movement everything else he gives really isn't that great.

But the real thing I disagree with is Roy. Roy imo is one of the best emblems in the game for a few reason, first as mentioned before EP is hard you ether lack strength or lack spd which is part of why lyn is so good cause she adds speed for units with high attack and roy does the opposite offers strength to units who have good spd (Kagtesu, Lapis, Chole) whichever you chose to use. He just gives them a nice chunk of damage and unlike Erika is active on both PP and EP not just PP. Next holdout++ is really nice for dodge tanks on maddening. Sense enemy's do not attack units they have zero hit on the idea is to have units who are as low as you can get with out hitting zero or losing to much damage. Hold out is a perfect fall back if you get unlucky, in addition Roy has prob the best engage in the game cause its the only one that gives raw stats from the start giving even more strength and extra spd to whoever needs it. Also to top it all off he gives sword users a physical 1-2 range option.

and while blazing lion is not that great its still nice to have in a pinch even if not that impactful but its just a bonus onto everything else roy offers.     

[Florete]

When I rank the Emblems I only consider what you get from them when they're equipped, not what they give through inheritance, since you don't have to actually use them at all to use their inheritance. So Sigurd doesn't get credit for letting everyone get Canter, but he does get credit for granting Canter to the one unit who has him equipped. I also tend to value sync skills over engage skills since you always have access to them.

I haven't yet gotten to Maddening nor do I have the DLC, but for now my tiers are as follows (not strictly ordered within tiers):

S: Lyn, Corrin
A: Sigurd, Byleth, Micaiah
B: Ike, Eirika, Lucina, Celica
C; Roy, Marth, Leif

S tier: Dominant rings with a lot going for them.

Lyn turns anyone into a murder machine. Basically whoever equips her ends up being my delete button. Speedtaker + Alacrity is good on almost anyone, but is especially valuable on units with good Str and average Spd. Astra Storm can just snipe problematic enemies from super far and Call Doubles is a surprisingly good defensive (and sometimes even offensive) option.

Corrin's Torrential Roar and Draconic Hex turn bosses that might otherwise be hard to hit and damage properly into absolute chumps. Dragon Vein and Dreadful Aura (especially in combination with Torrential Roar) can make whole groups of enemies completely non-threatening. Her Quality Time, while not amazing, is a nice bonus.

A tier: Strong rings with some powerful effects.

Sigurd grants a lot of movement...and yeah, that's about it. But movement is a pretty big deal and grants whoever equips him a heck of a lot of flexibility.

Byleth's Goddess Dance is his one claim to fame, as the rest of his kit is pretty mediocre, but it's powerful enough to rank pretty high. If he had other valuable stuff he'd easily be S tier, but I don't consider something that only gets used 1-2 times per map to be as good as all that Lyn and Corrin do. The irony is that you're actually better off not doing his paralogue so you don't extend the amount of turns engaged with him and can therefore get another Goddess Dance faster, but that also means you don't have access to the higher level skills.

Micaiah I'll admit I haven't seen huge value from myself yet, so this is mostly based on how helpful I think she'd be in maddening.

B tier: Good rings, but maybe not as good.

Ike can let a lot of units super tank...if they also have Pair Up from Corrin or there aren't too many backup enemies around. If the flat damage from chain attacks wasn't a thing he'd easily be a tier up The only time I've ever had someone completely solo a group of enemies is when equipped with Ike...or Corrin, because of Fog. Free Reposition is great utility. Great Aether, used right, can do a ton of damage for a single action.

Eirika I have found is pretty good at netting kills for whoever is equipped with her, better than the others in this area because of how Lunar/Eclipse Brace works, and the ability to heal from attacking is also nice. But overall she's just kind of basic, nothing that really stands out.

Lucina is the one here I suspect could go up in maddening. I haven't gotten much from Bonded Shield, but Dual Strike/Assist is nice and All For One can make for some great true damage for units who otherwise might have trouble killing enemies.

Celica is weird. Warp Ragnarok is probably her best thing, but I find it more limited than I'd like and often doesn't net kills. Echo feels like it should have nice potential but also feels unfortunately limited. Favorite Food is neat, but relies on the RNG of actually getting a packed lunch, and then the unit who wants it also needs to not have full HP already.

C; Not terrible but flawed Emblems.

Marth's main problem is lack of synergy in his kit; Perceptive grants avoid when initiating, Break Defenses grants an extra attack when breaking, two effects which rarely work together (only with smash weapons...I think?). Unyielding can be nice in a pinch, but it's generally better to avoid ever getting there. He feels like a worse Eirika overall to me.

Roy's Hold Out and Advance are kinda nice, but just not that strong on their own. Advance is basically a conditional +1 move while Sigurd grants unconditional +1 move, and Hold Out has the same issue as Unyielding. Blazing Lion is also pretty weak for an engage attack; I find its best value is not the damage but stalling enemies, but there are already other options for this (Dragon Veins, Obstruct staff). Rise Above is just some extra stats.

Leif is really bad. I actually think he might belong by himself another tier down. Vantage and Arms Shield have no synergy and the game isn't good at using Adaptability, and since he comes with multiple different weapons it can often be better to just not engage with him at all. His equipped stat boosts are also the worst, with Bld sometimes being straight worthless, and I don't think I've ever seen Quadruple Hit kill an enemy. I'd rather use Bond rings like Olwen S or Claude S over Leif.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Corrin's ability to just shut down enemy movement is just ridiculously useful and his special

her*

Edited February 17, 2023 by Florete

[SnowFire]

I beat the game on Hard and aren't 100% sure how this will change on Maddening, so here's my list.  Also note that there's a bit of a divide between "As an Emblem" and "for skill inheritance purposes."  Normally these would be more connected, but the game hands out Bond Points at such a generous rate combined with only being able to equip 2 skills means that you won't have a problem getting the BL up to allow inheritance, although there are some midgame availability issues of course.

As an Emblem: Corrin!!! >>> [Lyn, Byleth] > [Ike, Eirika] > [Sigurd, Lucina] > Micaiah > Leif > [Roy, Marth, Celica]

• Corrin is the best Emblem in the game.  She is a tier-and-a-half ahead of everyone else.  Dreadful Aura, Dragon Vein, Draconic Hex, Torrential Roar, a giant survivability boost...  all amazing.  The crazy thing is that Corrin arguably should be ranked separately based on what class type she's on, and she's amazing on most of them!  Dragon, Mystical, and Covert for the obvious power picks.  Really just avoid Qi Adept...  which is who she's equipped on by default.
• Lyn either takes a unit with suspect speed and patches it up, or takes a fast dodgetank and gives them utterly unhittable speed with the combination of her natural Spd bonus and Speedtaker.  Astra Storm makes hunting down Thieves much easier (especially on Alear for the incredible boosted Dragon range) or just sniping enemy frail mages / Qi Adepts.  And don't underestimate the humble Killer Bow; since the Lyn user is doubling a lot, if all you need is one crit, the odds are often not bad for gambling for it.  Obviously Mulagir will mulch some dudes too, especially the rare non-fell dragons.
• Who cares what Byleth does in combat, Byleth is a Goddess Dance battery.  I skipped Byleth's paralogue because I don't even want to be engaged with Byleth very long (barring rare punching out Generals with Vajra-Mushti I guess), I just want him to expire so I can stand on Emblem energy and get another Goddess Dance.
• Ike allows you to create units that can survive situations nobody else would, notably involving defense-ignoring dragon breath that nevertheless gets cut in half by Laguz Friend.  Super-Hammer, Ragnell, & Urvan are all very solid Engage weapons, too.
• Eirika is reverse Ike, she makes a low-damage unit into a tank-buster.  Any unit that is worried about not breaking defense is interested in her.
• Sigurd is cool, we all know this.  Gigantic mobility that happens every turn and even to a lesser extent when not Engaged, unlike Celica's one-shot.  Ridersbane can be useful, too.
• Lucina turning any old unit into a backup unit, and eventually a backup unit with movement range, gives her great synergy with Longbows & Thunder Tomes.  Daggers too if you really need to stack poison via Chain Attacks, but you're generally in too much of a hurry for poison stacking to be too viable a strategy.  This isn't the most powerful in a vacuum but being a passive boost that happens without costing an action makes it significant regardless.  Bonded Shield is situational but still powerful, and I imagine will be more important on Maddening.
• Micaiah is kind of like Lucina in changing the rules of how a unit works.  Staves are very good in this game and making any unit a spare staffer is powerful, and her "staves have a huge area of effect" passive allows some crazy silliness.  Notably, creating a 5-block Obstruct blockage is important for creating chokepoints.  If you're assassinating a boss, sometimes Rewarping a huge crew in can be handy too.  And just plain sending in units on dangerous missions against enemies that 2HKO them, letting them eat a counter, then Great Sacrifice healing them back to full from afar is great fun.
• Leif is the enemy-phase unit, basically a discount Ike.  Rather than damage-halving, you're more relying on Arms Shield & having a lot of different weapon types available.  It's okay if Leif's weapons aren't exceptionally powerful, often times finishing off weakened enemies and merely surviving is plenty.  Quadruple Hit is a decent raw-damage special attack.
• Roy & Marth are both too fair.  They help units out in fights but don't really offer tons of utility, although Roy's Binding Blade is good in the same way that Ike's Ragnell is good.  Celica allows some COOL plays but Warp Ragnarok does fall off eventually, so she's ultimately a magical version of Roy that'll make a mage better but still pretty similar.  (Although the final map heavily rewarding mobility is a point in her favor, I guess.)

For Skill Inheritance: [Ike, Lucina, Marth] > Corrin > [Lyn, Eirika] > Sigurd > Celica > Micaiah > Byleth > [Roy, Leif]

• Ike offers the mighty Reposition for cheap.  Stick this on half your characters.  The more infantry or armor you run, the more important this gets, too.  +Defense isn't a bad cheap filler skill, either, although you probably want something else in the long term.
• Lucina has the "all your backup characters have huge range at a 70% proc rate" skill.  2000 SP is pricy, but if you throw this on a bunch of backup characters lategame, it adds up.  Bow Agility is also good if you're building a Sniper / Alcryst dodgetank.
• Marth has half the "build a dodgetank" set which is Avoid +X and Sword/Lance/Bow Agility (and all of it for swordies!).  I definitely got both Avoid +10 and Sword Agility 1 on Alear before Chapter 10, and Avoid+ is a solid pickup on other characters too, at least ones that join pre-C10.
• Corrin has the excellent Draconic Hex, which applies even if you totally whiff.  Great for taking on nasty enemies with revival stones, throw this on your chip units.  Only matters lategame, but still.
• Lyn's speed boosts don't cost THAT much SP especially given the crazy costs for the Str/Mag booster skills, so they're very reasonable to take.  There's also Speedtaker as an option if you save up.
• Eirika is Lance Agility if you're building dodgetank Chloe or Goldmary the like.  (Lunar Brace would obviously be bananas but it costs Hahahaha No SP that will never happen.)
• Sigurd is mostly Hit + hype.  I know that some people hype Canter for early game availability, but that feels like a large investment that will derail endgame builds.  Maybe better with the DLC skill books.
• Celica has Tome Precision, which is okay I guess, and Favorite Food if you're building some sort of pure-support Byleth Goddess Dance spam unit.  Shame the +Mag skills are so insanely expensive.  And you can use weapon engravings if you need accuracy for a low-Hit mage like Ivy rather than a valuable skill slot, but I guess the option is still nice.
• If you are dead set on Silencing some mages, I guess Micaiah's Staff Mastery skill has a place, although you run out of status charges very fast on anyone other than Hortensia.  +Resistance is very cheap at least for an early game filler skill if you want.
• Byleth hypothetically allows some sort of goofy Divine Pulse build for a very inaccurate, very lucky unit.  For most characters Sigurd's Raw +Hit is better, but maybe if you're having Alfred attack with a Steel Greatlance or something?
• I'm not interested in any of Roy or Leif's stuff.  (Well, Leif is obviously good if you want to do some class changing for weapon proficiencies I guess, but that doesn't cost SP, so I'm not counting it.)

13th Emblem is hard to rank, but is obviously very important for the final map since hitting a Fell Dragon weakness is important there.

Edited February 17, 2023 by SnowFire

[lenticular]

17 minutes ago, Florete said:

When I rank the Emblems I only consider what you get from them when they're equipped, not what they give through inheritance, since you don't have to actually use them at all to use their inheritance. So Sigurd doesn't get credit for letting everyone get Canter, but he does get credit for granting Canter to the one unit who has him equipped. I also tend to value sync skills over engage skills since you always have access to them.

I agree with this. It would probably be possible to make a list based on which are best for inheritance instead, but that feels like a separate thing that shouldn't be mixed in with how good the Emblems are to equip.

My list looks something like this (with a shaky attempt to internally rank each tier from best to worst). This is based on my experience of one full playthrough on Hard, and then the start of a second playthrough on Maddening (finished chapter 10 so far).

• S tier: Lyn, Corrin
• A tier: Micaiah, Byleth
• B tier: Ike, Sigurd, Eirika, Celica
• C tier: Marth, Lucina, Roy
• D tier: Leif.

Lyn & Corrin: Pretty much everyone agrees that these two are fantastic, so no need for me to repeat the same reasons as everyone else.

Micaiah: Augment is nutty. Giving AoE and range to all staves lets you do some ridiculous things. Even if you're just using it for healing, it can still turn a humble Mend staff into something of a cross between Physic and Fortify. And that's before looking at what it can do with the likes of Rewarp, Freeze, Obstruct, etc. Giving staff access to someone who doesn't already have it is also relevant. It's especially strong in the early game in the early game when you don't have many staff units, but even in the late game, it can still find some use. In my current run, I'm planning to piar Micaiah with Alear to really take advantage of convoy access for access to all staves at once.

Byleth: Four-person refresh is still as powerful as it's been in past incarnations. Thyrsus is a very nice bonus too, and the Rally Spectrum effect also seems nice, though I've not used that one yet since there's much more competition for Emblems for Alear than Emblems for mages.

Ike: Can make someone pretty much unkillable for a turn with Great Aether, and very durable outside of that. Being able to patch up magic weakness on a General is very handy.

Sigurd: Mobility is good. Especially when you first get him and don't have any other mobility tech. But by late game, you do have Warp and Dance and other fun toys, so the ability to get from here to there in a hurry is no longer unique. And while Canter as a sync skill is nice, it's also easily inherited, so getting it through syncing isn't as valuable as some of the other top-tier skills.

Eirika: Honestly, I don't feel like I have a handle yet on how good Eirika is, and I wouldn't be surprised if I'm way off with this ranking. Partly that's her low availability, partly that's her more complicated kit, and partly that's just that I had her on one of my weaker units. The general impression I had from her is that she adds extra stuff that is always nice to have but seldom unit-defining or map-defining.

Celica: Better early on than in the late game, but never bad. Even if the Warp part of Warp Ragnarok drops off, the Ragnarok part stays about as damaging as other Engage attacks, and Resonance is a bit of extra damage for free.

Marth: Yeah, he's OK.

Lucina: Another one where I'm not confident of my ranking. Bonded shield seems like it might be good, but I pretty much never found myself using it because 80% activation doesn't seem reliable enough for a defensive ability. I know there are ways to improve that based on party composition and unit types, but none of them were relevant for my party. Extra damage from Dual Assist is nice to have, but even fully upgraded, it's still only somewhere around a 63% chance to work (70% to activate and c90% to hit). Extra damage is extra damage, but reliable extra damage is better than unreliable extra damage.

Roy: Yeah, he's OK too. Just not quite as OK as Marth.

Leif: Might be better if Adaptable were smarter, but as is, I've seen this switch away from weapons I wanted to use into inferior choices (eg, switching away from a weapon with a +avoid engraving and otno something which let the unit get hit, or switching from a more powerful weapon to a less powerful one with triangle advantage). His sync skills aren't bad, but he's in bottom tier for making me actively want to avoid Engaging with him.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

From what I've been seeing in gameplay, your choice of Emblem seems to matter way more than choice of units. Heck, even some of the generic rings can compete too. A ring tier list should be more substantial than a Unit Tier List, since unit viability probably begins and ends at what ring you can spare for them at whichever point of the game.

[Fabulously Olivier]

SS Tier

Corrin - fog tiles, pair up+, and strong debuffs

Byleth - for 4 person refresh and Thyrsus

Tiki - resurrection stone allows for busted plays, and she's one of the best Emblems for Alear due to Fog Breath. Also increases growths by a lot.

 

S Tier

Sigurd - Give Sigurd to anyone and they become much better. Especially tanks. A 15 movement Louis is just busted and opens up so many plays. Also, Override is an awesome crowd clear.

Camilla - movement plus a less-good-but-still-good Dragon Vein and strong AoE's.

 

A Tier

Micaiah - Opens up some power plays with certain staves, and Nosferatu tanking with certain units. 

Lyn - Speedtaker is busted, but it can and likely will be inherited. Alacrity is pretty good, especially on daggers, but is less important than it would be in a game with Break. She also has a good engage attack. I think Lyn's actual wielder doesn't matter much when her best aspect is likely to be inherited on the characters who actually need it.

Hector - Probably the best enemy phase Emblem. Quick Riposte is nuts.

Lucina - Dual Strike and Bond Shield are both excellent skills.

 

B Tier

Soren - might even be A tier. A very good mage Emblem that is straight forward and gives them what they want.

Ike - Great Aether opens up some really fun, effective plays. And while yes, it does require Pair Up+ inheritance, Pair Up+ is also a skill you'll want to inherit on a tank anyway.

Eirika - provides damage, healing, and even support in reasonable quantities. She's never the best at anything, but she's pretty good at everything.

Edelgard - While not being able to choose your gambit is lame, the Gambits are strong, the combat arts are powerful, and the kill confirm is great.

 

C Tier 

Marth - while his kit is basic and lacks any explicit synergy, the component parts are strong enough.

Roy - hard to justify using him when you have the DLC. Hold Out is really good on Diamant or your Micaiah Nosferatu tank, who could also just inherit it, but meh on everyone else. The level ups are a decent bonus. I don't think his Engage Attack is especially good, but restricting enemy movement allows for some plays.

Celica - Nah. She's not S or A tier. Echo/Seraphim allows for one to potentially kill a couple Corrupted per turn but that's about all she offers. Warp Ragnarok is mediocre at best. Favorite Food means little when it belongs to one of the weakest Emblems. And the rest of her kit is just not good. I'm almost inclined to put her in her own tier beneath Roy/Marth and above Leif.

 

D Tier

Leif - this one hurts because I love what he does. But his weapons are low Mt and Adaptable isn't as smart as it should be. Still, he's pretty decent on a Covert Unit for the Avoid style bonus, if you're running 2 of them (Corrin is a lock on the 1st).

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Skyteppelin said:

I think its alright although I personally wouldn't' rate sigurd so high cause outside of the movement everything else he gives really isn't that great.

But the real thing I disagree with is Roy. Roy imo is one of the best emblems in the game for a few reason, first as mentioned before EP is hard you ether lack strength or lack spd which is part of why lyn is so good cause she adds speed for units with high attack and roy does the opposite offers strength to units who have good spd (Kagtesu, Lapis, Chole) whichever you chose to use. He just gives them a nice chunk of damage and unlike Erika is active on both PP and EP not just PP. Next holdout++ is really nice for dodge tanks on maddening. Sense enemy's do not attack units they have zero hit on the idea is to have units who are as low as you can get with out hitting zero or losing to much damage. Hold out is a perfect fall back if you get unlucky, in addition Roy has prob the best engage in the game cause its the only one that gives raw stats from the start giving even more strength and extra spd to whoever needs it. Also to top it all off he gives sword users a physical 1-2 range option.

and while blazing lion is not that great its still nice to have in a pinch even if not that impactful but its just a bonus onto everything else roy offers.     

That works in theory but just didn't work for me in practice. I had Roy on Merrin who srrms perfect for him as she has plenty of natural speed. But maybe she's not good or Wolf Knight is just a bad class in general. Or maybe +5 levels doesn't provide as many stats as it appears. Next time I'll probablytry putting him on Jean and reclassing him to something that will make use of his (supposedly high) stats.

3 hours ago, Florete said:

When I rank the Emblems I only consider what you get from them when they're equipped, not what they give through inheritance, since you don't have to actually use them at all to use their inheritance. So Sigurd doesn't get credit for letting everyone get Canter, but he does get credit for granting Canter to the one unit who has him equipped. I also tend to value sync skills over engage skills since you always have access to them.

If we're discounting inheritance I would put Sigurd a lot lower. Movement is great and feels particularly powerful in early game, but by the time you get him back I would want more umph compared to the other Emblems. Though I had him on Ivy, so maybe his weapons, which are pretty uselesson her, would make up for that.

3 hours ago, Florete said:

Re Lyn Shadow clones

I really find these things only useful in defense. The fact that they take up an entire turn to use, when you only have engage for 3-4 turns is a massive draw back, especially when, if I'm activating her engage, it's because I wabt to use it to kill a unit ir astra storm then and there. If you could dance her after using it then it would be a lot better,  but the fact that she surrounds herself with clones means you actually can't dance her if you want the full effect (unless you have a soare unit to reposition).

3 hours ago, Florete said:

Micaiah I'll admit I haven't seen huge value from myself yet, so this is mostly based on how helpful I think she'd be in maddening.

I completely cheesed Chapter 25 by jut having Micaiah group rewarp my units into the same section, effectively ignoring a thid of the map! Even putting down four obstructs in one move (or 8 with a dance) can seriously control the flow of battle.

3 hours ago, Florete said:

Celica is weird. Warp Ragnarok is probably her best thing, but I find it more limited than I'd like and often doesn't net kills. Echo feels like it should have nice potential but also feels unfortunately limited. Favorite Food is neat, but relies on the RNG of actually getting a packed lunch, and then the unit who wants it also needs to not have full HP already.

Getting a packed lunch is rng based? Don't you get leftovers with every meal?

3 hours ago, Florete said:

 

Leif is really bad. I actually think he might belong by himself another tier down. Vantage and Arms Shield have no synergy and the game isn't good at using Adaptability, and since he comes with multiple different weapons it can often be better to just not engage with him at all. His equipped stat boosts are also the worst, with Bld sometimes being straight worthless, and I don't think I've ever seen Quadruple Hit kill an enemy. I'd rather use Bond rings like Olwen S or Claude S over Leif.

Yeah, quadruple hit seems inordinately weak. Though I had him on Marigold who seems to lack strength entirely, but an engage attack should not do four 0s worth of damage.

3 hours ago, Florete said:

*her

Curse you variable gender! I blame the fsct that I had her on my male Alear so the idea of the unit was categorised as him...yeah, thats a good excuse.

2 hours ago, SnowFire said:

 

• I'm not interested in any of Roy or Leif's stuff.  (Well, Leif is obviously good if you want to do some class changing for weapon proficiencies I guess, but that doesn't cost SP, so I'm not counting it.)

Leif offers vantage which is a pretty good skill combined with wrath and a crit engraved weapon. That's the build I had on Panette and she was a beast. Thlugh unfortunately weak to 1-2 range (mught make that mt Yunaka build next game).

2 hours ago, SnowFire said:

13th Emblem is hard to rank, but is obviously very important for the final map since hitting a Fell Dragon weakness is important there.

Oh man, I rwad that affect but forgot about it entirely for the final battle,  Corrin is just so much more useful. Not that I had much trouble damaging Sobron after taking down his barriers. I think I might have even killed him too early, as I never got to see the third round of miniboss reinforcements he brings (there is a third round, right?).

 

[Myssdii]

Not too sure I agree with all that was said. Especially considering maddening gameplay.

S Tier: Game changer emblems - emblems that give you more options on how to handle maps

Micaiah - Full map healing, vastly increased staff range and area of effect that works on all teleportation staffs (from Rewarp to Entrap), being able to turn any unit into a staff holder (really useful on units with only one weapon type since they have inventory space), Micaiah has a lot of benefits. She also gives a ton of experience early on since the more you heal, the more exp you get, which can help catching up with a low level unit quickly. In late game, with all the armors and great knights, her signature tome Thani is really good for offense as well in specific situations.

Byleth - AOE dance is always good, Rally is good, and that alone gives Byleth a high rating. What a lot of people are missing is that Divine Pulse is pretty busted as well: it works on staff hit. With the extra boost to luck and the effect, you can turn any offensive staff low chances of hit into a guaranteed effect (Freeze, Silence and Entrap).

Corrin - Just the ability alone to immobilize and debuff a group of enemies for a turn is completely busted. Dragon Vein is the cherry on top. Too bad that her weapons are garbage, so you usually want her on units that come with good weapons (daggers are great for adding to the whole debuff package) or 3-range.

Lucina - My last maddening run just made me discover Lucina as something more than just "turn this unit into a ranged backup" passive mode. Bonded Shield + Dual Support allow you to use deep-dive cross-shape formations to bait enemies or choke points, turning the centered Lucina holder into a dodge tank thanks to the support bonuses. 80% trigger doesn't seem much, but it can be boosted (Alear boost it to 90%, and if you have a lot of cavalry or fliers, you can do a similar formation with a 100% chance). She is an Emblem that give you boosts for both player and enemy phase, which is really rare. I've done boss and formations pulls that I wouldn't even dare doing without her.

Lyn - What pushes me to put her in this tier and not A-tier is Astra Storm and its ability to pull bosses from across the map that would otherwise stay in place until you reach a certain tile or turn (20 range on Covert units is absurd). This can completely turn harder grindy maps into an easy boss rush (hello Ike and Micaiah paralogues). Outside of that, she's basically giving speed to anyone who needs it. Up to +10 from Speedtaker will allow units to reach maddening stupidly high speed thresholds, which is really good.

A Tier: Booster emblems - emblems that turn okay units in god tier units

Eirika - She adds a lot of true damage to any offensive unit, which is just stupid, especially in higher difficulty where enemies have inflated stats, and it's harder to deal damage to them. Units with the speed to double, or brave effects, will love her. Her weapons are really nice, as she's the one of the two Emblems that have a weapon effective against Corrupted (and hers is much stronger than Celica's), until you get past chapter 22 and unlock the hidden emblem.

Ike - It's basically Eirika but for defense stats. Dividing received damage by two, as well as extra Def and Res when below 75% health mean that you'll get into single-digit damage territory, or no damage at all pretty quickly. His weapons are really good, providing a really strong 1-2 range sword for enemy phase. Grand Aether is an okay action, mostly useful for baiting groups of enemies and doing pre-emptive damage (and sometimes break) onto them so your other units can finish them off. Free pivot is also nice, as it's sometimes hard to find spots in your skill sets to plug it in.

B Tier: Niche emblems - emblems that give some nice boosts to specific types of units

Sigurd - Sigurd is extra movement, and that's pretty much it. Momentum and Canter are both pretty good skills for mobility and extra damage, but they are also easy to inherit. Extra movement is always nice, especially in the beginning of the game when you are stuck with 4 movement units. Gallop allows to reach some targets really quickly, but you expose yourself while doing so. But it's useful, and nice to have on units that like the extra movement like your Dancer, or a Wolf Knight for kiting options.

Marth - In lower difficulties, I would rate him in A tier. But in maddening, extra attacks at 50% damage will not do enough unless you are hitting for magic damage or effective damage. Its availability also sucks. In early game, he is amazing, especially with Mercurius extra exp, but in endgame he has to compete with Eirika who is vastly superior for damage. He's pretty okay though, especially on units who can use magic swords and lances effectively.

Roy - His effectiveness will likely depend on the holder's growths. 5 extra levels can make the difference for doubling or getting that small extra damage for a kill. Blazing Lion and Hold Out also allows for a choke point, or at least slow down a pack of enemies and getting pre-emptive damage. It's less effective than Corrin on that point, but it's nice to have that option. He's just slightly below more specialized emblems, but a mix bag of slightly useful stuff.

Celica - Her early game impressions are amazing as Warp Ragnarok is pretty busted at this stage of the game. But when you get her back, she's just not enough. Echo is nice, but you're just short of everything, at least in my experience. Resonance also does not compete with Eirika 5 extra damage to everything, while Resonance damages you, is restricted to tomes and only adds 3 damage.

C Tier: Bad emblems - also known as Leif tier

Leif - I wished I could rate him better, but he just sucks. His main issue is that Adaptability only works when you are engaged, so you have to deal with his absurdly bad personal weapons when the game has to choose a specific weapon in enemy phase. This results in the game sometimes switching out of a good engraved and forged weapon for his magic sword or custom brave lance, just because they have weapon advantage instead of being neutral but doing much more damage on the counter attack. Extra build can be nice on some units, but you can inherit that and Initiative if you want, as well as the damage reduction when you have the weapon advantage. Some bond rings are just better than he is. Also, Quadruple Hit is probably the worst offensive Engage Attack in terms of damage, just because it uses his signature weapons.

[Jotari]

48 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

 

Celica - Nah. She's not S or A tier. Echo/Seraphim allows for one to potentially kill a couple Corrupted per turn but that's about all she offers. Warp Ragnarok is mediocre at best. Favorite Food means little when it belongs to one of the weakest Emblems. And the rest of her kit is just not good. I'm almost inclined to put her in her own tier beneath Roy/Marth and above Leif.

Yeah maybe I ranked Celica too highly purely because I had her on Veyle who lets Echo be 3 range thanks to dragon and can consistently active the engage for Seraphim. But every Emblem is going to get extra powers due to dragon. At at face value Celica-Veyle still wasn't nearly as good or useful as Citrenne-Byleth. Still, she probably is one of the better options for Veyle, and while not good at 1:1 comparison,  Celica does have the advantage of being of the few magic based Emblems in a game where magic is pretty good. So her competition for a good unit isn't as cutthroat as other mid tier Emblems.

[Florete]

30 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If we're discounting inheritance I would put Sigurd a lot lower. Movement is great and feels particularly powerful in early game, but by the time you get him back I would want more umph compared to the other Emblems. Though I had him on Ivy, so maybe his weapons, which are pretty uselesson her, would make up for that.

If I were ordering them within tiers Sigurd would probably be at the bottom of A. Maybe even the top of B. Override can be pretty nice.

31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I really find these things only useful in defense. The fact that they take up an entire turn to use, when you only have engage for 3-4 turns is a massive draw back, especially when, if I'm activating her engage, it's because I wabt to use it to kill a unit ir astra storm then and there. If you could dance her after using it then it would be a lot better,  but the fact that she surrounds herself with clones means you actually can't dance her if you want the full effect (unless you have a soare unit to reposition).

By offense I meant that if they can dodge an attack, they can sometimes do pretty good damage back and possibly even kill. I actually completely forgot about the fact that the Lyn user can have them chain attack with her lol. That's a thing, I guess, but my Lyn user rarely needs extra help getting kills.

32 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Getting a packed lunch is rng based? Don't you get leftovers with every meal?

You only get one from C rank (I think) or above. I guess it's plausible that if you just want the leftovers you could be sure to have the chef always make something they're good at it and presumably get a high chance or guarantee of a packed lunch. I always prioritize supports so I've seen some bad meals.

35 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, quadruple hit seems inordinately weak. Though I had him on Marigold who seems to lack strength entirely, but an engage attack should not do four 0s worth of damage.

Marigold? Do you mean Goldmary?

29 minutes ago, Myssdii said:

Byleth - AOE dance is always good, Rally is good, and that alone gives Byleth a high rating. What a lot of people are missing is that Divine Pulse is pretty busted as well: it works on staff hit. With the extra boost to luck and the effect, you can turn any offensive staff low chances of hit into a guaranteed effect (Freeze, Silence and Entrap).

The issue I have with Divine Pulse is that it's basically just extra hit. It's more extra hit the lower the unit's natural hit is, but why not just fix their hit in other, more reliable ways? Though I'm not sure how staff hit is calculated, so depending on how that works I suppose that can be some good value for it...though realistically I don't think you're actually getting guaranteed hits from it, especially if you skip Byleth's paralogue, which leaves you unable to get Divine Pulse+.

If Rally was a sync skill instead of an engage skill that would be soooo much better. But as it is one of your engage turns is for Goddess Dance, and with that Goddess Dance turn likely clearing out most/all enemies in the immediate vicinity, I don't tend to find much of an opening for Rally to mean much.

[Anathaco]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Getting a packed lunch is rng based? Don't you get leftovers with every meal?

I think the meal needs to get above a D rank to give leftovers, and the rank you get is pretty much RNG based, yeah.

Anyway, may as well throw a list in here too:

S: Corrin, Micaiah, Byleth

A: Lyn, Lucina, Eirika, Sigurd

B: Ike, Celica, Marth, Roy

lol tier: Leif

I don't think my S tier is super controversial so I'll pretty much leave it at that- I will add that I personally love Micaiah both for the amazing staff utility and the Hold Out combo with Nosferatu, so I may rank her a little higher compared to everyone else.

I do think Lyn is great but I just got more use out of the Emblems in S tier than I did with her. Amazing for combat, I just tend to value the utility Emblems more.

I love Eirika just because she's simple but effective- you throw her on a physical unit and they deal more damage, engage with her if you want more damage than that. Nothing super complicated, but pretty much anyone I use her with slays.

I like Celica for the early game but honestly I haven't used her much since getting her back.

Roy can be good for Hold Out and letting a squishy unit take a hit or two, but honestly I find (particularly once you get DLC emblems) I actually don't have room to run him since everyone else wants a better Emblem.

Poor Leif (Calling his tier lol tier probably makes my opinion of him seem way worse than it is but auto correct kept turning the C : into an emote and this is way funnier than doing something simple like calling it C tier)

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Anathaco

[DefyingFates]

56 minutes ago, Myssdii said:

Also, Quadruple Hit is probably the worst offensive Engage Attack in terms of damage, just because it uses his signature weapons.

Kinda off-topic, but what weapon does Leif use for the bow part of Quadruple Hit? Is it just a generic killer/ silver bow or does he have a unique bow (or "pseudo-bow") in his code?

12 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

I think the meal needs to get above a D rank to give leftovers, and the rank you get is pretty much RNG based, yeah.

You need to get Rank C or better for the packed lunch.

13 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Poor Leif (Calling his tier lol tier probably makes my opinion of him seem way worse than it is but auto correct kept turning the C : into an emote and this is way funnier than doing something simple like calling it C tier)

Poor Leif.

It's useful that everyone seems to agree on a vague hierarchy, though it's a shame that Leif gets ranked so low consistently. Adaptability has caused problems for me too of course, but I think he still deserves some credit for having so many Proficiencies, so he's worth using (or spending Bond Fragments on) for that at least.

Also, I agree that Warp Ragnarok falls off in value in the lategame and is just a glorified warp, but the extra range for Echo for Dragons (namely Veyle) is useful for chip damage or even scoring two kills if she has Nova.

[Myssdii]

53 minutes ago, Florete said:

The issue I have with Divine Pulse is that it's basically just extra hit. It's more extra hit the lower the unit's natural hit is, but why not just fix their hit in other, more reliable ways? Though I'm not sure how staff hit is calculated, so depending on how that works I suppose that can be some good value for it...though realistically I don't think you're actually getting guaranteed hits from it, especially if you skip Byleth's paralogue, which leaves you unable to get Divine Pulse+.

Staff hit is Weapon Hit + Mag + Dex, but the issue comes from the avoid from enemies, which is, for staffs, (3*Res + Lck) / 2. This gives mages and high res units a ton of staff avoid on maddening. Trying to silence a mage in end game is just rolling for low 40 or even below. Divine Pulse+ is just so good for that.

I do agree that for lower difficulty than maddening, just patching with hit+ skills or engravings in enough, but maddening end-game is just stupid in terms of avoid for some units, that I think Divine Pulse+ is better on units that have decent luck stat by that point.

To give you an example of stats (chapter 21, I still have a save of that):

- Veyle has 30 Res and 25 Lck, which gives her 57-58 staff avoid (I don't know if it's rounded down or up)
- the High Priests next to her have 39 Res, 18 Lck, so that's 67-68 staff avoid
- my Citrinne has 136 hit on her Silence (Entrap is less hit as well), but all those units are also on an avoid tile, which works for staff avoid as well (because why not), so it reality, I have less than 50% chance of hitting Veyle with a Silence or a Freeze, and even less for the two High Priests next to her. Entrap is even lower than 20% on them.

I could use the staff boosting skill from Micaiah or the general Hit+ from Sigurd, but they are either specific to one type of weapon for the former, or extremely expensive for the latter. Divine Pulse+ is extremely cheap, works for any weapon, and is a fixed reroll chance that is entirely based of your own stats. So even with avoid stacking from enemies, you'll always have that same chance of getting your hit if you miss your initial roll. My Citrinne has 23 base Lck at this stage, and a shaky 22 base Dex, which means Thoron hit rate is definitely a problem. Divine Pulse+ will both fix her accuracy for staffs and Thoron (and later Nova), and is cheap enough so that I still have ton of points to give her extra damage through another skill.

Hortensia even have more than 40 luck with Byleth sync, so that staff hit is nearly guaranteed. I'll probably mess around with Sage Anna in my next run, with Byleth for luck stacking + Thyrsus.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Myssdii

[haarhaarhaar]

Interesting comments on here - I've only recently tried out Eirika and Soren, so I'll play the game a bit more before I attempt to contribute a tier list. But some notes so far:

I completely agree with @Myssdii about Lucina's utility. She can turn any unit with decent Spd into a backup unit and a dodge-tank, all her engage weapons have some kind of effective damage (in particular, Parthia for fliers), Bonded Shield is great if you can set it up, and she boosts Dex and Spd (which will be relevant for basically any unit that wants to equip her). I can't think of a better option for her than on a Wolf Knight, unless maybe if siege tomes are back in this game or you really need Bonded Shield - but she makes lots of units better. 

Everyone is rating Corrin/Byleth/Lyn/Micaiah for all the right reasons, they're great.

Tiki is ridiculous. Like really ridiculous. About half of Maddening became doable by just leaving Tiki in front of the enemy. Her only real weakness is that she can't deal ranged damage. She makes Alear usable in the first half of the game and improves their growths with Starsphere, while Geosphere/Lifesphere are very powerful and available quite quickly, and she has an AoE attack. What's not to love. 

The 3H emblem is not far behind Tiki, although it's only relevant for physical units (there's a case for Tiki on hybrids). It boosts Str and Dex, as well as providing Weapon Sync for extra damage, Raging Storm is almost as good as it was in Three Houses (Aymr is a smash weapon, so you risk some counters, and you can't abuse it like in Three Houses), Fallen Star can buy you some extra survivability, and Houses Unite is still ending health bars of bosses for me. 

Hector occupies a similar position to Ike, I think. Quick Riposte and Heavy Build are good abilities that are probably too expensive to inherit. I think armoured units and backups make best use of engaged Hector (there's a niche argument for Hector on a flier if you're on a mage-heavy map) - stick a Killer Axe or Tomahawk on with Storm's Eye and watch enemies scatter. Ike probably has better overall damage reduction and better weaponry, but Hector is competitive I think.

Can't really defend Leif's Adaptable, and Roy seems most like the Emblem that was better on paper than in practice.

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yeah maybe I ranked Celica too highly purely because I had her on Veyle who lets Echo be 3 range thanks to dragon and can consistently active the engage for Seraphim. But every Emblem is going to get extra powers due to dragon. At at face value Celica-Veyle still wasn't nearly as good or useful as Citrenne-Byleth. Still, she probably is one of the better options for Veyle, and while not good at 1:1 comparison,  Celica does have the advantage of being of the few magic based Emblems in a game where magic is pretty good. So her competition for a good unit isn't as cutthroat as other mid tier Emblems.

Yeah, Celica is probably the best Emblem on Veyle. But I do wonder if maybe Camilla or Soren replaces Celica on her if you own the dlc.

[Shadow Mir]

On Corrin: Is the fog effect really that good??? 

On Leif: I think the best part of him is that he has build+ as inheritable.

[Fabulously Olivier]

18 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

On Corrin: Is the fog effect really that good??? 

On Leif: I think the best part of him is that he has build+ as inheritable.

Is on demand avoid tiles for your covert units that good? YES!

[Technoweirdo]

5 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

On Corrin: Is the fog effect really that good??? 

On Leif: I think the best part of him is that he has build+ as inheritable.

For Thieves specifically, it's effectively a 3x3 grid of forest tiles centered on self on demand. Has its quirks though like causing 59 Hit enemies on Maddening to not attack unless there's a Backup ready to Chain Attack, at which point it's a mere stalling tool. Personally though, Corrin's glued to Alear, so I never got to try it. I get a lot of mileage out of Flame and occasionally Succor already. Really hard to give that up.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

By offense I meant that if they can dodge an attack, they can sometimes do pretty good damage back and possibly even kill. I actually completely forgot about the fact that the Lyn user can have them chain attack with her lol. That's a thing, I guess, but my Lyn user rarely needs extra help getting kills.

Particularly fun when an armoured or cavalry enemy tries to use a Smash weapon on them XD

3 hours ago, Florete said:

Marigold? Do you mean Goldmary?

Uh...yes, I guess I do XD She didn't make much of an impression on me as a character. Crazy defense stat though.

27 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

On Corrin: Is the fog effect really that good??? 

On Leif: I think the best part of him is that he has build+ as inheritable.

Is +20 avoid good? Is +20 avoid for your allies good? In a game where Covert units get a bonus from terrain? Yes, very, very much so yes. It even reduces enemy movement.

[Dark Holy Elf]

My opinions are generally quite close to the consensus. Some thoughts:

Corrin: For Corrin the debate isn't to whether Corrin is super powerful, it's what particular part of her is the most superpowerful. Fog? Fire? Three range Dreadful Aura? I mean, consider all the good options for Corrin, who often have competing roles:

• Dragons: can use any dragon vein they want
• Sages/High Priests/Celine: can activate Dreadful Aura at 3 range, or create fire panels. Benefits a lot from Corrin's stats (HP/mag).
• Ivy/Hortensia: can activate Dreadful Aura at 3 range while flying. benefits a lot from Corrin's stats (HP/mag).
• Thieves: can create fog and benefit from it immensely
• Snipers/Alcryst: can create fog while having 3 range Dreadful Aura

I'm running CorrinIvy and she rules. And this might not even be the best use of Corrin; all of the above uses are just straight-up excellent (Dragon's the one I'm least sold on because I feel committing to a preferred dragon vein for a map makes more sense). Also, I feel Corrin's stat boosts are a bit underrated. I rarely see anyone talk about her double-digit boost to HP, but it basically translates into the equipped unit taking an extra hit, which is huge on Maddening.

Lucina seems to have the most volatile placement. I'm not certain how good she is myself; Bonded Shield is absolutely an ability I use less than I should. Obviously "make anyone a backup" is solid at worst. Bow Knights and flying mages in particular can benefit a lot, and apparently you can use her to inflict poison. My kneejerk is Lucina is around the middle somewhere.

I agree that Leif is pretty clearly the worst. It's a shame the game wouldn't let you pick the weapon yourself, although I guess they were worried about slowing down the enemy phase too much. At the very least, I'd have appreciated a "hold a button down to not change your weapon" or something like that. As is, I've sometimes found engaging with Leif actually is a disadvantage, and that feels bad. Leif can still be used for Vantage/Wrath, so that's something, but I haven't played around with it yet.

 

Skill inheritance tier list:

Sigurd, Ike, and Lyn have to be at the top. IMO Canter / Reposition / Speed+3 are easily the most impactful, low-to-medium cost inherits that most units want. There are others, of course, but they tend to be more situational. Heck, I saw Avoid+10 mentioned, but Speed+3 only offers 4 less avoid, so it's pretty clearly superior; I actually swapped out Avoid+10 for Speed+3 myself (though obviously stacking them is fine, too).

[Technoweirdo]

Only at Ch. 22, but imo...

The Most Busted
Micaiah -- Boosts staves in a game with good staves.
Lucina -- Bond Shield enables flying mages to tank both generals and snipers.
Corrin -- The queen of stalling mobs *and even bosses*.

Somehow Not The Most Busted
Ike -- Turns bulky units into tanks in a game where tanking is hard. Exists in a world where glass cannon mages can somehow be tanks.
Byleth -- Can give multiple units extra turns once. Exists in a world where Corrin can deny enemy actions multiple times.

Pretty Damned Good
Lyn -- Raw speed backed by more speed with Speedtaker. Mulagir has even more Speed and hits hard.
Eirika -- Raw firepower in Lunar Brace / Bravery. Sieglinde hits everything really hard in the late game.

Good
Marth -- Raw firepower in Break Defenses + Divine Speed. Have to bring your own weapons.
Sigurd -- Lots of movement. Can sometimes do fun things with Overdrive.

Use Them For The Stats
Celica -- "Wow, Warp Ragnarok? Queen of LTCs" -Everyone before they learned about Revive Stones. At least Sigurd keeps his wild movement the whole time.
Roy -- +5 levels doesn't do as much as you wish it did.

Use For The Build; DO NOT ENGAGE
Leif -- Maybe a Royal Knight could use him? Aside from that...