Mekkah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 That's a pretty low Wendell you got there, especially compared to Gotoh. I would say Wendell > Gotoh at least - even if you ditch Wendell after like 4 chapters of earlygame use, he's had more availability than Gotoh, and he is also guaranteed to be there, while Gotoh is gone if you go to 24x. Or he can stick around for longer and still be useful with staves. The people right above Gotoh I haven't really looked into, though none of them really seem to have a period of time where they're actually good compared to others, while Wendell does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Gotoh down, Wendell up, or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I would classify Gotoh much more Mid than Low (he is neutral for all game but last chapter - think Athos), so I'd say put Wendell right above Gotoh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I don't like bringing things up again but... it would be so much easier if you constantly updated the first page with the tier list, as opposed to an update every x pages or something. Then it's a lot easier, because the front page doesn't reflect the new Bottom tier, as well as a couple other edits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) it would be so much easier if you constantly updated the first page with the tier list ...already did. I did it right after the latest update. Look at the first post. The only change absent is Ogma>Nabarl, and that's only because I C/Pd the post ThunderMan gave me and put it on the first post, meaning I forgot to change Ogma>Nabarl. Also, it doesn't reflect the new bottom tier, because the new bottom tier doesn't exist yet. That list I posted was just a proposal, which is already being shuffled around. Edited January 21, 2009 by MightyZagaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I'm not sure why you should "propose" it, just put it up and if people have objections they'll list and hopefully argue them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Bord =/= Bottom Tier Hunter----->Hero Bord has decent strength/defense, and can reach 19 AS by endgame. Plus he has Ogma/Barst/Marth/Cord support for +40 Avoid/+20 Crit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) That's the thing, though. Hunter Bord's AS is going to suck so much, Endgame is the ONLY time he's good. Just like how endgame is the only time Gordin is good, and look at where he is. I mean, 6 base spd, 25% growth. Come on. Edited January 21, 2009 by MightyZagaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why is Darros so high then? He suffers from the exact same problems Bord does, only Bord can get awesome support bonuses(and support Cord and Barst) and can actually hit things with axes. I brought this up a few pages ago, but it got ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Daros has a wtfhueg defense lead over Bord. That's why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) That doesn't warrent a 4 tier gap seperation at all. 40 avoid>5 Defense lead at 20/15 anyways. Paladins in Chapter 20 have around 30% displayed hit on him, and thats on H5. Edited January 21, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 A seven point Def advantage at Lv. 20/20(A level neither of them are likely to reach) is hardly what I'd call "wtfhueg". His Def lead doesn't become significant until the last few chapters, and by then Bord's going to be benefiting from atleast +30% Hit and Avd assuming that Marth, Ogma, and Barst are used(and really, why wouldn't they be?). Cord's a good unit as well, and can give an extra 10% Hit and Avd. Darros can only get up to 20 extra hit and avoid from supports, and that's only if Shiida is fielded in almost every map(lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) From a quick glance, that's the only real advantage Daros has over Bord. Bord only has one less Speed as a Mercenary, and he has that huge support that gives him a bunch of avoid that he might find lovely. Edited January 21, 2009 by Nathan Graves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 21, 2009 Author Share Posted January 21, 2009 Paladins in Chapter 20 have around 30% displayed hit on him, and thats on H5. Have fun finding some pratical use for Bord on H5 since he never has enough AS, ever. but whatever. Daros down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Once again why is Athena above Hardain? Hardain comes in at a lower level with nearly the same as bases as Athena, high weapon levels, great supports, and his growths beat her in everything but hp. Only advantage I see for her is the promotion gains from Dracoknight. Edited January 22, 2009 by Delsait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 high weapon levels That's only so relevant on NM where steel does the exact same thing as Silver. Only advantage I see for her is the promotion gains from Dracoknight. pretty much it Earlygame, Hardain only wins so much [Athena comes two chapters later, meaning he can't really garner a huge level lead. Athena might actually start faster than he is.] and Athena has a good enough win lategame to offset the slightly better fight he was putting up early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I still say his growths and supports put him above Athena. Two maps is enough to get a significant level lead. Edited January 22, 2009 by Delsait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Their stats are very even, probably not enough to make a huge difference. I would put Hardin above Athena because he comes earlier and is able to surpass her Lv 10 stats before she joins, but a huge gap between the two. He also gets access to Dragonknight as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I just told you Athena has a good speed lead on Hardain. Growths aren't the only thing that matters, bases actually matter more. Hardain needs four level ups in two chapters, all the while competing with everybody else for EXP, to tie Athena in speed. Now, if he had the same starting level as, say, Vyland, maybe. Two maps is enough to get a significant level lead. Not enough to beat her in speed. His only supports are Wolf, Zagaro, and Marth, and avoid isn't that much of an issue. Plus Hardain has a good move lead over all those guys, making it harder for them to keep up. When you factor in neither are dying anyway, Athena's flight gives her the win. Edited January 22, 2009 by MightyZagaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Have fun finding some pratical use for Bord on H5 since he never has enough AS, ever.but whatever. Daros down I was using H5 stats, because there are no NM enemy stats. And Bord still isn't the third worst unit in the game. He's on par with Darros, once again trading 5 defense at 20/15 for 40 avoid. Which means he's facing at WORST 32-40 True Hit with WTD, and around...8-12 True Hit with WTA, which he'll often have as a Merc. Yes, he takes a Merc slot, no he is not bottom tier. Lower Mid at worst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 I just told you Athena has a good speed lead on Hardain. Growths aren't the only thing that matters, bases actually matter more. Hardain needs four level ups in two chapters, all the while competing with everybody else for EXP, to tie Athena in speed. Now, if he had the same starting level as, say, Vyland, maybe.Not enough to beat her in speed. His only supports are Wolf, Zagaro, and Marth, and avoid isn't that much of an issue. Plus Hardain has a good move lead over all those guys, making it harder for them to keep up. When you factor in neither are dying anyway, Athena's flight gives her the win. You forgot Vyland who is a decent character this time around. Also speed is something Hardain should not have trouble with, he's got one of the best speed growths in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hardain SUPPORTS those characters, but he does not receive support from them. There is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hardain SUPPORTS those characters, but he does not receive support from them. There is a difference. Yeah except for Marth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 22, 2009 Author Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Which means he's facing at WORST 32-40 True Hit with WTD, meaning he's still relying on avo, meaning being assured you won't die beats the shit out of thinking you won't die. Yes, he takes a Merc slot This right here is the problem since he needs that merc slot to be good, he doesn't just want it. By doing that, you essentially give Wolf, Zagaro, Barst, Daros and whoever else the bird. which he'll often have as a Merc. Nope. You know C4, the chapter where he actually gets to swap to Merc? That, C6x, and C9 are the only chapters that have any real amount of axe users. The rest of the game is dominated by lances. Lower Mid at worst. If he wasn't reliant on a merc slot for the sole purpose of not failing at life, possibly. EDIT: wait, TWO level ups to tie Athena in speed. Still doesn't really matter as Hardain doesn't have a big win on anything, meaning Flight is basically the tiebreaker. Also, +10 avoid to Sedgar/Wolf doesn't help them at all since Zagaro already tinks every single physical unit and OHKOs mages, and Wolf doesn't do much worse. 10 avoid to Vyland also makes no difference at all for him, or at the very least not one big enough to cancel out Athena's superior Lategame and flight and ever, EVER so slightly better earlygame. Edited January 22, 2009 by MightyZagaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) Not enough to beat her in speed.Wait, we're talking about Pegasus Knight Athena, right? Hardin matches her in speed in just two levels.EDIT: I do change my mind though. Athena above Hardin, but the gap between them is pretty low. Edited January 22, 2009 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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