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I just glanced at the post counts for this thread by chance and saw that I've posted on this thread more than the person actually doing things.

That's just kinda funny, thought I'd point it out.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

HcOc502.png

There he is. Shrek.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

Hfcj82B.png

You know, it's hitting me that I don't remember this map. The others I have some memories of, at least, but this one... I'm drawing a blank here. I don't think I've ever seen this before in my life, even though I definitely have because I've played Echoes all the way to the final chapter.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

ozjYTg7.png

Because otherwise, even without the "round 4, 8, 12... Arghh, Judah's spell" silliness - 28 Def means that literally none of our phyiscal attackers can do more than scratch damage, while our magical powerhouse Atlas can deal two points of damage with his Fire spell.

77GETVAw_o.png

Sadly, he learns Sagittae later in Gaiden.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

HDx9XBd.png

So then, back to Alm the Angel Ring goes. Alongside the Silver Sword, which should provide a lot of value for Jesse. I don't think there's a third item that I would want to send over? Maybe the Silver Bow for Alm, although I did enjoy Leo being kinda useful again.

Honestly, just let him keep it.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

I remember a Discworld novel with a running gag being the head wizard being very insecure about balding and trying a few rather weird methods to prevent it. One of them was smearing manure over his head, so maybe Hark is suffering from premature beard loss? A truly devestating loss for a sage. If you don't have a beard, how will people know you're smart? There's no glasses in the setting, I don't think.

Plot twist: He lost his beard long ago. He made himself a chin wig with a pile of manure. An unorthodox choice, but he had to make due. There are no sheep in the Lost Village.

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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58 minutes ago, gnip said:

Vg24Y4O.png__TKojSYs.png

As a result, there really is a bit of praying to RNGeesus involved, and he showeth mercy, even adding a point of Spd to Valbo.

BLESSED VALBO

58 minutes ago, gnip said:

However, he allegedly has access to an "Earthquake" spell, which hits everybody on the field for massive, but non-lethal, damage. However (spoiler warning), he's not going to get around to using it in this fight, so I don't even know if it also hurts his own soldiers or not.

Pretty sure enemies aren't affected.

58 minutes ago, gnip said:

8N9DneW.png

...seventeen of that seems a bit unreasonable, especially when your main anti-monster squad is supposed to eat Death spells to make any progress on the boss. 

58 minutes ago, gnip said:

ozjYTg7.png

Because otherwise, even without the "round 4, 8, 12... Arghh, Judah's spell" silliness - 28 Def means that literally none of our phyiscal attackers can do more than scratch damage, while our magical powerhouse Atlas can deal two points of damage with his Fire spell.

Finally, the enemy successfully conspires to prevent you from doing the funni.

And I hate it because no Dracoshield for you.

58 minutes ago, gnip said:

Maybe the Silver Bow for Alm, although I did enjoy Leo being kinda useful again.

Is Leo going up the tower? Because if not, just give it to Alm.

58 minutes ago, gnip said:

A truly devestating loss for a sage. If you don't have a beard, how will people know you're smart? There's no glasses in the setting, I don't think.

Not in Kaga's world, though I recalled Halcyon having some in SoV he does not and it looks like none of the generics do either?

58 minutes ago, gnip said:

My suspicion is that the Japanese message has the angle "Inventory full, so the treasure was put back in the chest in order to reclaim space", the translator didn't know the context of the string of words, and so they interpreted it the wrong way.

I expect it's something like that, but I don't know the original text, so shrug is all I can do.

54 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You know, it's hitting me that I don't remember this map. The others I have some memories of, at least, but this one... I'm drawing a blank here. I don't think I've ever seen this before in my life, even though I definitely have because I've played Echoes all the way to the final chapter.

Well, I certainly do, I had to stare at it for an hour this year.

And it's in Awakening.

Edited by Punished Dayni
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Can't you use expel to clear out Jeddah's biggles?

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

 

There he is. Shrek.

You know, it's hitting me that I don't remember this map. The others I have some memories of, at least, but this one... I'm drawing a blank here. I don't think I've ever seen this before in my life, even though I definitely have because I've played Echoes all the way to the final chapter.

As Dayni pointed out, this chapter is even reused in Awakening. And they even reused the bosses name! Awakening's one moment of actually acknowledging Gaiden in more than a superficial sense (well you also fight outside Duma's tower in Brady's paralogue, I think).

<S>It's a surprise you don't remember the chapter when Jamil is such a cool and interesting boss.</s>

Edited by Jotari
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10 hours ago, gnip said:

I think Celica heard you trashtalking her stats. She gained +4 Spd and +2 Def in addition to the +5 Def from the Lion Head.

All her stats are double-digit now, which you'd expect, for a lord whose independent story is almost over.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

Somebody please remind Boey of his Str growth, too.

You tried to use Boey. It would appear he was unswayed by your proposal.😛

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13 hours ago, gnip said:

Step 1: Be pleasantly surprised that this village's Lion Head Fountain can be used five times. Celica is moderately tanky now.

In an ideal world, we'd be seeing 30 defense Valbo.

13 hours ago, gnip said:

Step 2: Look at nine enemy witches, pick a god, and pray.

There is no god who will aide you now. Gaiden is a godless creation.

13 hours ago, gnip said:

So then, off to fight Judah

Finally!

WUGRKOR.png

13 hours ago, gnip said:

3HvIaDm.png

...or maybe not. You know what? I don't think I *need* need a Dracoshield.

KKGYi1m.png

13 hours ago, gnip said:

..seventeen of that seems a bit unreasonable, especially when your main anti-monster squad is supposed to eat Death spells to make any progress on the boss. 

ozjYTg7.png

Because otherwise, even without the "round 4, 8, 12... Arghh, Judah's spell" silliness - 28 Def means that literally none of our phyiscal attackers can do more than scratch damage, while our magical powerhouse Atlas can deal two points of damage with his Fire spell.

At this rate, I can't even trust Gnip to kill Mystery Medeus with Arran.

 

Well, my Atlus was able to absently destroy Judah, but I suppose act 4 was literally me solo'ing most things with him. Most of Celica's og team was entirely "benched" by now with Kamui and 1 or 2 fliers being useful. Think my Celica was also pretty busted. I remember thinking this Judah was a joke to kill in Gaiden cuz I didn't have to plan out 4th hits like in SoV. Just rush in the moment turn 4 hits and I won. A shame I didn't do the killing blow with Valbo. He was working on those eyes.

13 hours ago, gnip said:

So then, back to Alm the Angel Ring goes. Alongside the Silver Sword, which should provide a lot of value for Jesse. I don't think there's a third item that I would want to send over? Maybe the Silver Bow for Alm, although I did enjoy Leo being kinda useful again.

Wait, Alm can use swords?

13 hours ago, gnip said:

I think Celica heard you trashtalking her stats. She gained +4 Spd and +2 Def in addition to the +5 Def from the Lion Head. Somebody please remind Boey of his Str growth, too.

Wait she only got 4 speed now? Damn, how shitty was this lass? Sounds almost as terrible as story SoV Celica.

13 hours ago, gnip said:

Yeah, it seems pretty obvious what the mummy encounters on both sides are meant to accomplish. I thought it was just a programming error, but it might just be Kaga having a merciful moment.

Kaga likes showing mercy in the strangest ways. I'll take it over just being thrown in a dark pit with no light source.

Actually, he'd totally do that.

13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I just glanced at the post counts for this thread by chance and saw that I've posted on this thread more than the person actually doing things.

That's just kinda funny, thought I'd point it out.

Not too uncommon for an LP methinks.

But yes, you do say too much. Just sit back and let me do your thing.

13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You know, it's hitting me that I don't remember this map. The others I have some memories of, at least, but this one... I'm drawing a blank here. I don't think I've ever seen this before in my life, even though I definitely have because I've played Echoes all the way to the final chapter.

"I hate Three Houses."

There. That was easy. I could run your account and no one could tell us apart.

But come on, everyone knows this both from SoV and Awakening. It's an IntSys favorite, for whatever fucking reason.

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

All her stats are double-digit now, which you'd expect, for a lord whose independent story is almost over.

something something Roy joke

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edit: Well, I have no idea why the responses have been put in a spoiler, too. Nothing in the editor suggests that I put them in one. Hopefully, nothing is lost and everything readable.

FE2 Chapter 4: Dismal Nation

Lost Woods -> Doma's Tower
Nuibaba's Abode -> Rigelian Village

Spoiler

JbETnkD.png

There ya go, Mr Alm-kun. I went with Dayni's argument here, that Leo isn't really going to see any combat until the end of the game, if I understand things correctly. Unless I missed something taking a quick look at FEWoD for the last chapter, there won't be any fights with more than 10 of Celica's peeps involved.

QmuH4Lk.png

Also take a look at poor decapitated Hark. He loses his head if the tile he's standing on is in the uppermost tile row.

q2Wu8Mp.png

With that, to Doma Tower we go. Lck vs Spd isn't a trade-off at all, and I tried to anticipate the demands that would be made in this thread.

TfnwmJf.png

Doma Tower is, kinda, Gaiden at its gaidenest. Instead of big epic maps like in every other FE endgame, we get very small, minimalistic fights, in which Celica can't even bring the 9 companions that are otherwise standard for dungeon exploration. 

For this first fight, I bring Atlas, Dean, and... I think it's Catria and Est? 

UMJpIKY.png

Oh, and Jenny, although I think she did the least during the fight. It did allow me to confirm that she swaps out Nosferatu for Seraphim as her standard spell to counterattack with, so that's nice.

eLxD979.png

As a bit of a unique mechanic, the cell holding the HiKnight and the third Dreadfighter opens up after two turns. Less potential for rage-inducement than Canters, as far as reinforcement replacement mechanics go, that's for sure.

G41SnBv.png

Overall not the most difficult fight. The Dreadfighters hit reasonably hard with 18 Atk, but most people here are at least somewhat tanky. A crit would've spelled doom for Celica or Jenny, I'm sure, but that luckily didn't happen.

zlfdFPV.png

More Lion Heads on the next floor - Skl, with the alternative being HP on the next floor. Since Catria ended up as the primary Javelin chucker, I gave her all three Skl points, even though her Skl is easily the highest of any character in either team.

whDa97j.png

The next fight is a bit silly. 

ZwxQnNZ.png

Necrodragons are, frankly, not a threat at this point, so the Whitewings easily clear those out. The one Bow Knight is the biggest threat, but, well, one Bow Knight.

hWP5Um2.png

The next fight is a bit silly.

o5ulKP3.png

Necrodragons are, frankly, not a threat at this point, so the Whitewings and Celica easily clear those out. The one Bow Knight is the biggest threat, but, well, one Bow Knight.

B8K9qWZ.png

Next floor, and the last Lion Heads, this time with a more balanced choice, between Def and Str. I again tried to anticipate demands.

H0tvsuY.png

And finally, the big confrontation between heroine and villain, in which she will surely overcome her nemesis in an epic fight of will.

(Honestly, it didn't have to be an epic fight of will between the two, but I still found the interactions between Celica and Jedah in Echoes very frustrating. Here the serious Celica, there the saturday morning cartoon villain Jedah, very transparently manipulative and dishonest, but Celica must be stupid so that Alm can rescue a princess. Something Something Female FE Protagonists)

bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "I've been waiting for you, princess of Sofia."
7ZKNT7y.png%C2%A0: "Who are you!?"
bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "I'm Lord Doma's top servant! Judah, head priest of our Lord."
7ZKNT7y.png%C2%A0: "If that's so, then please, I beg you, free Lady Mila!"
bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "Heheh... What a panic you're in! Look into this crystal of mine. You've dearly missed seeing that face, yes? That's right. It's Alm. Why don't I let you watch him struggle?"

(Whoops, I just notice that this is the obsolete Celica portrait, without her diadem. I'll try to remember and fix that for her next appearance, if she even gets to say anything)

jRxII7R.png

And with that, Celica disappears from the map (and I unfortunately forgot to take note of the stats on her team, so you'll have to wait), and in a shocking twist, it is up to Alm to save the day.

lx3sTKc.png: "What? Teeta was saved? Very well! All troops, engage Jerome's men!"

esGZsEe.png

No worries, Cliff is on it. He's close to a level, so he's coming in carrying the Angel Ring, and is rewarded with a HP/Skl/Spd level.

5y3U84x.png

Even without Zeke's defection, this map is pretty trivial thanks to the easy choke point. If anything, it's a bit more difficult now because it's theoretically possible that Zeke might get killed.

YK3NnMq.png

Oddly enough, his stats are a bit different from the Zeke that will join us shortly - +3 HP, but lower Str/Skl/Spd. If I had to guess, this Zeke has the same stats as a generic Lv.3 enemy Gold Knight...

xf6zOU2.png

...and is thus very slightly weaker than the Dozer of this map. Well, -1 Spd is a very relevant slight stat difference, of course.

irgnzEV.png

Luckily, Jerome and his group aren't coded to attack Zeke or anything, so they'll just happily slaughter his much weaker entourage. Jerome's group has a few Gold Knights and Zeke's doesn't, so I think the outcome of the fight is pretty clear with no player interference.

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With interference, the pickings are easy, though.

krtZOWH.png

Since she's also close-ish to a level, Silk warps Claire ahead, too - she unfortunately only gains +2 Skl from this.

eiujXYJ.png__jI9gjW1.png

The boss fight: Very dramatic. Cliff turned out kinda strong.

xb4Pobu.png

And the rest is pretty much clean-up. Dyute gets warped in as well, just to pick off a cowardly Paladin (which is safe because Clair can just shield her from anybody else), and the rest of the enemy is routed soon enough.

8Ae4yLw.png

Inside the village, there's a few NPCs:

  • "You guys saved General Zeke, eh? Though I hate Sofians, I must thank you guys."
  • "General Jerome was a cruel man. Even this village was sacked until Lord Zeke came."
  • "Just ahead is Dragon Mountain. The zombie dragons there'll tear you apart!"
  • "General Zeke has no memories of his past. Lady Teeta found him washed ashore with an awful wound and nursed him back to health."

EElKbjW.png

lx3sTKc.png"Thank you kindly."
yyCntCs.png: "General Zeke, you oppose this war, correct? Please, join our cause."
lx3sTKc.png: "I cannot. I only helped you fight Jerome because he made my people suffer greatly. Besides... I don't know who I am. All I can remember is that I washed up on Rigel's shore. To my pitiful self, His Majesty Rudolf gave me a new life. I will not betray him."
yyCntCs.png: "I understand... Apologies for my rudeness."
lx3sTKc.png: "No, not at all... Hm?! Alm, what's that mark on your right arm?"
yyCntCs.png: "Mark? ... Ah, I've always had this birthmark. What does it...?"
lx3sTKc.png: "I see... His Majesty Rudolf once told me: 'Zeke, if you find the one with a cross-shaped birthmark on his right arm, you must dedicate yourself to that person. He will certainly becomethe savior of all of Valencia...' If this is His Majesty's will, then so be it! Alm, I shall fight with you!"

Glad to see Camüüü is still unquestioningly following his current monarch's orders.

pXuVs0H.png

[HP 40% | Str 20% | Skl 35% | Spd 55% | Lck 30% | Def 30%]

And here he is with his actual bases. A little higher than Gold Knight bases, with the exception of his Skl being a lot higher, so I assume he's about equal to a Cleive or Matilda that you invested into. Or even a bit worse, considering the Angel Ring. However, he's obviously a classic example of the ol' "no cost" argument, and comes with really good growths to boot. 210% in total is quite high for Gaiden standards, and Zeke comes with the only growth rate in the entire game that is above 50%, including HP growths.

I think that sums it up, really. He joins as an endgame-ready character, with some opporunity to grow even further. Pretty good, and I'm convinced that the ludicrous Spd growth is just there to spite the porßelain man and his fans.

The Team:

	Lv.		HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  +XP   Item
Alm	10/1.24		36   16* 14  14* 10  10   4  + 24* Silver Bow (+7 Atk, +10 hit, -2 Spd)
Force	8/10.35		42   24   5  10*  7  12   5  + 24  Quick Ring (40 Spd)
Luka	7/1.99		34   16*  6   4*  3  12   2  - 60  Knight Ln (+3 Atk, -5 Hit, -1 Spd)

Claire	13/3.18		40   16* 14  17* 21  12   8  -  9  Steel Ln (+4 Atk, -10 Hit, -1 Spd)
Matilda	7.59		30   13* 15  16  13  11  10  + 54  Holy Ln (+3 Atk, +10 Crit)
Cleive	7/2.54		28   12   7   8   9   8   1  - 60  Prayer Ring

Cliff	4/11/10/2.48	42   23* 11  15  11  26   8  - 78  Holy Bow (+5 Atk, +30 Hit, +10 Crit)
Jesse	7/7.62		32   15* 13  24* 13   7   7  + 43  Silver Sw (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)
Python	5.61		24   11*  3   4*  2   6   4  - 36  Steel Bow (+3 Atk, -1 Spd)
Gray	5/8/4.53	32   13* 11  14*  2   8   2  -  3  Bolt Sw (15 Atk, -3 Spd)

Dyute	11.45		26   15  10  16  19   5  15  + 58  Magic Ring
Silk	10.83		18   11   5  12   9   2  11  +  5  Holy Shield
Robin	10.31		30    9  10  12   6   5*  4  + 22  Leather Shield (+3 Def)
Ryuto	12/3.93		36   17  10  16   6*  7   8  +104  Angel Ring (40 Lck)

Teeta	1.00		28   14  12  10   2   3  18
Zeke	3.00		40   20  13  14   4  14   6

The XP comparison is to after the Nuibaba fight in the lost save file, where a Witch army joined the fray, so that's why a lot of characters have a negative number there. Mostly semi-benched ones, who happened to be close to the action against the Witch Army, but also Cliff, who didn't solo the mansion itself nearly as hard as he did previosly.
 

On 10/24/2023 at 6:27 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

There he is. Shrek.

It is, in fact, ogre.

On 10/24/2023 at 6:27 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

Sadly, he learns Sagittae later in Gaiden.

Yeahh, Lv.16 is a pretty steep requirement, especially considering that mages seem to earn XP relatively slowly.

On 10/24/2023 at 7:20 PM, Punished Dayni said:

Finally, the enemy successfully conspires to prevent you from doing the funni.

And I hate it because no Dracoshield for you.

Ironic, considering that Jedah in Echoes is an embodiment of funni.

On 10/25/2023 at 12:35 AM, Jotari said:

Can't you use expel to clear out Jeddah's biggles?

 

Jenny wasn't quite there yet - only one level, she gets it at her promotion level, so I guess I could've grinded for it. Oh well.

On 10/25/2023 at 8:04 AM, Shaky Jones said:

"I hate Three Houses."

 

Terrible impression. You didn't mention beards.

On 10/25/2023 at 4:57 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

You tried to use Boey. It would appear he was unswayed by your proposal.😛

He just didn't have the sails to truly emulate Darros, despite his early Spd levels.  

Edited by gnip
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On 10/24/2023 at 7:20 PM, Punished Dayni said:

Well, I certainly do, I had to stare at it for an hour this year.

And it's in Awakening.

Ah, I see.

On 10/24/2023 at 7:20 PM, Punished Dayni said:

Not in Kaga's world, though I recalled Halcyon having some in SoV he does not and it looks like none of the generics do either?

Generic sages and Halcyon definitely got beards in SoV, they're just shorter, well-trimmed beards, got nothin' on Nomah's wild mane.

On 10/25/2023 at 8:04 AM, Shaky Jones said:

"I hate Three Houses."

There. That was easy. I could run your account and no one could tell us apart.

I could point out seven different errors. But I won't. Instead I'll tell you to play Berwick Saga.

On 10/25/2023 at 8:04 AM, Shaky Jones said:

But come on, everyone knows this both from SoV and Awakening. It's an IntSys favorite, for whatever fucking reason.

Well it ain't in Engage, now is it.

13 minutes ago, gnip said:

QmuH4Lk.png

Also take a look at poor decapitated Hark. He loses his head if the tile he's standing on is in the uppermost tile row.

Hark, such a tragedy!

13 minutes ago, gnip said:

q2Wu8Mp.png

With that, to Doma Tower we go. Lck vs Spd isn't a trade-off at all, and I tried to anticipate the demands that would be made in this thread.

Good mind eye.

13 minutes ago, gnip said:

TfnwmJf.png

Doma Tower is, kinda, Gaiden at its gaidenest. Instead of big epic maps like in every other FE endgame, we get very small, minimalistic fights, in which Celica can't even bring the 9 companions that are otherwise standard for dungeon exploration. 

Kaga liked this so much he did it again in TearRing Saga.

14 minutes ago, gnip said:

whDa97j.png

The next fight is a bit silly. 

14 minutes ago, gnip said:

hWP5Um2.png

The next fight is a bit silly.

It's actually hideous, my goodness.

14 minutes ago, gnip said:

bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "I've been waiting for you, princess of Sofia."
7ZKNT7y.png%C2%A0: "Who are you!?"
bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "I'm Lord Doma's top servant! Judah, head priest of our Lord."
7ZKNT7y.png%C2%A0: "If that's so, then please, I beg you, free Lady Mila!"
bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "Heheh... What a panic you're in! Look into this crystal of mine. You've dearly missed seeing that face, yes? That's right. It's Alm. Why don't I let you watch him struggle?"

Plot.

16 minutes ago, gnip said:

Glad to see Camüüü is still unquestioningly following his current monarch's orders.

Some things don't ever change. Not even after floating a few continents.

16 minutes ago, gnip said:

And here he is with his actual bases. A little higher than Gold Knight bases, with the exception of his Skl being a lot higher, so I assume he's about equal to a Cleive or Matilda that you invested into. Or even a bit worse, considering the Angel Ring. However, he's obviously a classic example of the ol' "no cost" argument, and comes with really good growths to boot. 210% in total is quite high for Gaiden standards, and Zeke comes with the only growth rate in the entire game that is above 50%, including HP growths.

I think that sums it up, really. He joins as an endgame-ready character, with some opporunity to grow even further. Pretty good, and I'm convinced that the ludicrous Spd growth is just there to spite the porßelain man and his fans.

I love how dumb it is. Zeke's just a better Meißen that joins earlier and has growths. It's so fucking stupid. #JusticeForMeißen.

17 minutes ago, gnip said:

Terrible impression. You didn't mention beards.

That is one of the seven mistakes.

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17 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Generic sages and Halcyon definitely got beards in SoV, they're just shorter, well-trimmed beards, got nothin' on Nomah's wild mane.

I was on about glasses there, but yes, few can match Nomah's beard game.

On 10/25/2023 at 7:04 AM, Shaky Jones said:

Wait, Alm can use bows?

Me playing Gaiden.

37 minutes ago, gnip said:

QmuH4Lk.png

Also take a look at poor decapitated Hark. He loses his head if the tile he's standing on is in the uppermost tile row.

Hark! A hallow'een headless hearld!

38 minutes ago, gnip said:

The next fight is a bit silly.

Yeeah, Duma's tower is silly.

39 minutes ago, gnip said:

(Honestly, it didn't have to be an epic fight of will between the two, but I still found the interactions between Celica and Jedah in Echoes very frustrating. Here the serious Celica, there the saturday morning cartoon villain Jedah, very transparently manipulative and dishonest, but Celica must be stupid so that Alm can rescue a princess. Something Something Female FE Protagonists)

And here's the thing: I get some reasoning for her choosing to listen to Jedah.

In the context of how silly it's presented and how things pan out I will not argue here today.

40 minutes ago, gnip said:

jI9gjW1.png

The boss fight: Very dramatic. Cliff turned out kinda strong.

Yes, fuck you Jerome.

24 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I love how dumb it is. Zeke's just a better Meißen that joins earlier and has growths. It's so fucking stupid. #JusticeForMeißen.

Mycen couldn't have been honest about what he was covering up he had his justice /s

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I get how the tower fights are silly (and easy), but I do like the Gaiden tower fights better than Shadows of Valentia, since at least the Gaiden tower fights look like they were actually designed and not just randomly generated. This goes doubly so for the later Duma temple fights where they actually do a lot of fun things with traps and actually have you fight some of the boss enemies (or unique identical classes pretending to be characters? It's kind of vague) that appear in the final map.

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7 hours ago, gnip said:

edit: Well, I have no idea why the responses have been put in a spoiler, too. Nothing in the editor suggests that I put them in one. Hopefully, nothing is lost and everything readable

Wow the post looks all fucky.

7 hours ago, gnip said:

With that, to Doma Tower we go. Lck vs Spd isn't a trade-off at all, and I tried to anticipate the demands that would be made in this thread.

That isn't Valbo.

7 hours ago, gnip said:

Doma Tower is, kinda, Gaiden at its gaidenest. Instead of big epic maps like in every other FE endgame, we get very small, minimalistic fights, in which Celica can't even bring the 9 companions that are otherwise standard for dungeon exploration. 

Instead of very mid endgames, you get very Gaiden gaidens, which is honestly also mid, because at least it's not desert or swamp. For an endgame, it checks out for the game it's in.

7 hours ago, gnip said:

whDa97j.png

The next fight is a bit silly. 

ZwxQnNZ.png

Necrodragons are, frankly, not a threat at this point, so the Whitewings easily clear those out. The one Bow Knight is the biggest threat, but, well, one Bow Knight.

This was the part of the game that provides the ultimate challenge.

For your nintendo pc. That speed emulation was going crazy here for me. Those necro dragons have such slow animations, and I got like, 30 of these encounters.

7 hours ago, gnip said:

(Honestly, it didn't have to be an epic fight of will between the two, but I still found the interactions between Celica and Jedah in Echoes very frustrating. Here the serious Celica, there the saturday morning cartoon villain Jedah, very transparently manipulative and dishonest, but Celica must be stupid so that Alm can rescue a princess. Something Something Female FE Protagonists)

bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "I've been waiting for you, princess of Sofia."
7ZKNT7y.png%C2%A0: "Who are you!?"
bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "I'm Lord Doma's top servant! Judah, head priest of our Lord."
7ZKNT7y.png%C2%A0: "If that's so, then please, I beg you, free Lady Mila!"
bYoq8xK.png%C2%A0: "Heheh... What a panic you're in! Look into this crystal of mine. You've dearly missed seeing that face, yes? That's right. It's Alm. Why don't I let you watch him struggle?"

Somehow better than SoV. At least we didn't have a stupid ass Sirius wannabe and co yell at your stupidity before entering the bad room, with a scene back at the lost woods where you basically shadow call Alm just to admit that you're in the wrong instead of being the saint in Alm's conquest. Least this can be chalked up to "you tried confronting the baddie, but he trapped you" which fits more here based off of how act 5 goes. But Kaga clearly would prefer the remake's Celica for what happens next.

7 hours ago, gnip said:

Glad to see Camüüü is still unquestioningly following his current monarch's orders.

Wow people here really don't like this archetype. I never think too hard on it. A meme unit boss kill is a meme unit boss kill.

7 hours ago, gnip said:

I think that sums it up, really. He joins as an endgame-ready character, with some opporunity to grow even further. Pretty good, and I'm convinced that the ludicrous Spd growth is just there to spite the porßelain man and his fans.

But you will use Mei letter I can't be bothered to input, right? Right?

7 hours ago, gnip said:

Terrible impression. You didn't mention beards.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I could point out seven different errors. But I won't. Instead I'll tell you to play Berwick Saga.

You hate me cuz you ain't me.

 

I don't take criticism from people who can't do it better. Now do my thing Ruben.

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Kaga liked this so much he did it again in TearRing Saga.

Can he just stick to what makes FE good?

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Plot.

Normally I tend to go on about how bad plots are more entertaining than the lack of one, but in this case, I'll gladly take this nothing burger over SoV.

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That is one of the seven mistakes.

We Americans don't make mistakes. We blow them up.

8 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:
On 10/24/2023 at 11:04 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Wait, Alm can use bows?

Me playing Gaiden.

You completely changed the entire point of my statement to turn a joke into a boring "I don't know things" relatable comment. I weep.

 

In fairness, it was a crappy joke, but this is just insulting...

8 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

And here's the thing: I get some reasoning for her choosing to listen to Jedah.

In the context of how silly it's presented and how things pan out I will not argue here today.

I think I already argued some of what you're hinting at just now, but at least what happens in FE2 isn't directly "listening" to him. Fuck SoV man.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I get how the tower fights are silly (and easy), but I do like the Gaiden tower fights better than Shadows of Valentia, since at least the Gaiden tower fights look like they were actually designed and not just randomly generated. This goes doubly so for the later Duma temple fights where they actually do a lot of fun things with traps and actually have you fight some of the boss enemies (or unique identical classes pretending to be characters? It's kind of vague) that appear in the final map.

I do think there's some disgusting Zelda 2 esque charm to the Duma tower in FE2, especially with act 5, as dumb as it can be, but it's still Gaiden maps at the end of the day. Some maps are...unique, at least. But a few are just actual garbage.

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FE2 Chapter 4: Dismal Nation

Rigelian Village --> Hidden Shrine

Spoiler

yK2ThDA.png

So, back to Alm. The next three fights are... something, to a large part because it counts as the Necrodragons attacking Alm, not the other way around.

pKW1c0f.png

First fight, this is no problem at all. There's five Necrodragons on the map, two of which fly to the group in the south, two east, and one that goes south, but seems to take a turn longer than the others.

M2a5YvQ.png__fupdn9l.png

But they don't reach anybody on enemy phase, so they can easily be picked off on player phase. Claire and Cliff in particular have an easy time doing so, thanks to their high reach and ability to one-round.

iQS7OKn.png

After the fight, Alm is stuck, and since Celica isn't on the world map right now, there's nothing to do but skip your turn...

f9lWS3M.png

...after which another, larger group of Necrodragons attacks Alm.

i3fCXX0.png

And then Teeta is dead.

Like, turn 1, no counterplay available, she just happens to be in range of a Necrodragon who one-rounds her. Thank you S. Kaga, very cool.

JCYyqzP.png

Of course, the counterplay that you do have is look at FEWoD where your character spawn, and shuffle them around accordingly.

Pictured above: Me not properly checking how large the map is. Gaiden's map optics tend to be a bit unclear about this, there's usually a row/column of tiles at the edges that looks traversable but isn't actually part of the map. In this case, I didn't properly scrolled to the bottom left, so I thought Teeta was fully shielded in that position.

x6Efx3u.png

She isn't. *sigh*

gXdiTdq.png

There, that'll do it.

sERAbjg.png

Aaaand same map for the third time, again with even more Necrodragons. Ten in total.

MCP6Ueh.png

Because I am very smart, I make the same mistake as before, leaving Teeta in range of the closest Necrodragon...

KYQrMWW.png

...but the beauty of Fire Emblem is that sometimes, RNGeesus will absolve you from your sins. Teeta got a HP/Def level-up in the last fight, so now she easily tanks Necrodragons all day.

4LiK14c.png

I never mentioned the top right - that part of the map is rather easy with Bow!Alm around. He can pick off one Necrodragon on the first player phase, and then he (or Dyute, who has the Magic Ring equipped right now) can get the second one on the next turn. And all the other dragons go for the group in the south.

asMkQCq.png

Wasn't that fun, let's not do that again.

l8KJmvQ.png

bYoq8xK.png: "Follow me if you want to save him. If you sacrifice yourselves to Lord Doma, Alm's path shall again open up!"

lZmdwnU.png

So Celica jumps down the tower into some dungeon. Azura convincing Corrin to jump down a cliff? #KagaDidItFirst

tk3vii7.png

And this looks vaguely familiar from watching an Echoes LP... I don't quite remember *what* Alm saw through those bars, but I think there was a very dramatic scene in this location.

wFasslw.png

Anyway, you again find Judah in the northeast corner of the cave.

bYoq8xK.png: "Heheh, so you're finally here. This is Doma's Altar, our site of human suffering. Thus I shall kill you slowly and painfully. Your pain will be Lord Doma's magnificent feast..."

In *somewhat* of a defense of Echoes... Celica's complete lack of agency at this stage is definitely already a thing in Gaiden too. This chapter, on her side, really played out like this:

Judah: "Come to Doma's Tower or Alm will die."
Celica: "..." *proceeds to come to Doma's Tower*
Judah: "Jump down this cliff or Alm will die."
Celica: "..." *proceeds to jump down this cliff*
Judah: "And now I shall kill you. Slowly."
Celica: "..." *presumably waits for Alm to save her*

ETaIY5r.png

So then, back to the real protagonist. (I'm talking about Ryuto, obviously)

Next up is a shocking sight: A map that is actually quite good. No, really. Things happen, and you can actively make progress.

6tmPxri.png

It does help to, again, use FEWoD to split your troops correctly. Specifically, send all the high-Move characters to the northeast, that is to say, Claire, the horsies (including Cliff), and of course Mr Speed, Force. They will engage the group of enemies north of the broken bridge. No idea if you can "open" this bridge similar to FE1, by moving somebody to the northern part of it, but I assume it's just an obstacle to encourage you to actually use both your groups, and that can at least be crossed very slowly by foot units.

0O7eS6o.png

Meanwhile, Alm plays hero - with Cliff in the NE squad, he's the next best option for this, thanks to his 1-5 range allowing him to counter the Bow Knights...

t4wQeud.png

...and Ryuto gets into position to also counter a Bow Knight on enemy phase, thanks to the Magic Ring.

sdr6LJc.png

Easy pickings.

ZnWkic1.png

As a side note, Alm gains silly amounts of XP here. Evidently, Gaiden is all over the place with class power for the sake of XP gain - Celica seemed to count as a prepromote back in chapter 2, and now, promoted Alm gains XP like he's a Lv.1 villager. Bit of a shame that he doesn't use the Angel Ring for this, but this works far too nicely not to go for.

rOwNnS8.png

He does take decent damage from the enemies here, but Teeta is really useful in that regard. Without her Physic, Alm definitely would've gotten worn down quickly, but with it, he can solo that part of the map pretty comfortably.

NW70UKr.png

In the north, the horse squad is already close to engaging the boss trio. Speaking of, I almost forgot...

oWljW2F.png

To the left: Heste, Sonia's other sister, iirc. She summons Witches (which don't disappear after you kill Heste, by the way) and hits very hard with Aura, but of course we brought 1-5 range to pretty much trivialise that.

cIKYCKU.png

To the right: Shaman the Canter, who summons Gargoyles. Boring.

mBopBKZ.png

In the center: Magnam. Pretty impressive physical bulk, but susceptible to magic, especially with his low-ish speed. No Mage Knights in Gaiden to go with the horse squad, so we'll have to warp somebody in to take care of him.

PlztYiz.png__qreigwg.png

For example Dyute, who handily one-rounds the generic Barons in the group with Aura.

tdHnzJg.png__xlaXj3p.png__aRlU1vF.png

We also manage to kill all the Wizards this turn, which is nice - not as much because they're super dangerous, but because they (or at least some of them, I didn't check) can cast Fortify.

13SHQKY.png

Next turn, the Canter warps in a whole bunch of Gargoyles, and Claire can't simply one-round him.

aFs73yL.png__8FHddgL.png

Easy to pick who can help us with that.

IWXzk0Q.png__aRuv7dd.png

And with Magnam, too, of course, even though he manages to dodge an Excalibur here.

epu6N62.png

The same round, Cliff kills Heste from afar. She summoned two Witches the turn before, but the one that I wasn't able to kill immediately (Claire missed her twice...) didn't warp to kill any Lukas or Pythons.

B38CSGj.png__Fgwcg1X.png

Yeahh, the map is done.

58Yyhw8.png

No well-timed screenshot, unfortunately, but Ryuto does the thing with a nice, strong Saggitae spell. You know the line.

lp3VXQt.png

Worth mentioning that this map only gives you 20 turns to beat it, unlike every other fight, which has a limit of 40 turns. It's a bit of a mean trick, since failing to rout it in time will throw you back to the Necrodragon trap (and FEWoD appropriately warns for that in all-caps, bold letters), but it's not the most unreasonable turn limit. You really have the tools to be quick and aggressive on this map.

rnTD3H5.png

Next time: some promotions. Force has been ready for a little while now, and I hope to get Silk to promotion too, since there will be a little XP pinata. Maybe Jesse can get there, too.

The Teams - both of them, since I didn't get Celica's group's stats last time:

	Lv.	   HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  +XP   Item
Celica	10/10.38   27   16* 12  14  17  12   7  +120  Hero Sw (+5 Atk, +10 hit, +30 crit)
Noma	8.32	   28   12  18   8   1   6* 14	      Steel Sh (+5 Def)

Jenny	13/1.16	   30   15  10   7   8   8  13  + 16  Holy Ring
Atlas	10/12/2.16 44   24  12  10   4   9   4  +116  Magic Ring
Boey	10.78	   28    8   2  11  10   7*  7        Leather Sh (+3 Def)
May	6.97	   23   10   2   7   5   3* 10  

Dean	10/1.17	   36   19* 18  18*  8  11  19  + 17  Dark Sw (+13 Atk, -20 hit, -1 Spd)
Kamui	8/10/1.00  41   16* 17  18   2  11  17        Holy Sw (+3 Atk, +10 hit, +15 crit)
Leo	7/5.99	   33   14   9   7   7   8   1	      Silver Bow (+7 Atk, +10 hit, -2 Spd)
Saber	5.99	   24    9  11   6   7   6   6

Valbo	5.14	   33   14   9   6   3  12   0
Palla	12/2.60	   42   20*  9  10*  4  14   5  + 44  Steel Ln (+4 Atk, -10 hit, -1 Spd)
Est	12/3.62	   40   19* 12  15* 14  15  12  + 70  Silver Ln (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)
Catria	12/3.05	   41   16* 24  18* 16  12   9  + 53  Javelin (+3 Atk, -20 hit, -2 Spd)
	Lv.		HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  +XP   Item
Alm	10/7.98		39   17* 17  16* 11  12   4  +674  Silver Bow (+7 Atk, +10 hit, -2 Spd)
Luka	7/1.99		34   16*  6   4*  3  12   2        Knight Ln (+3 Atk, -5 Hit, -1 Spd)
Force	10/10.93	42   24   5  10*  7  12   5  + 58  Quick Ring (40 Spd)

Claire	13/4.36		40   17* 14  17* 22  12   8  +118
Cleive	7/2.82		28   12   7   8   9   8   1  + 28  Prayer Ring
Matilda	7.96		30   13* 15  16  13  11  10  + 37  Holy Ln (+3 Atk, +10 Crit)
Zeke	3.18		40   20  13  14   4  14   6  + 18

Jesse	7/8.54		33   16* 13  24* 13   7   7  + 92  Silver Sw (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)
Gray	5/8/4.81	32   13* 11  14*  2   8   2  + 28  Bolt Sw (15 Atk, -3 Spd)
Python	5.99		24   11*  3   4*  2   6   4  + 38  Steel Bow (+3 Atk, -1 Spd)
Cliff	4/11/10/3.54	43   23* 12  16  11  26   8  +106  Holy Bow (+5 Atk, +30 Hit, +10 Crit)

Dyute	12.67		28   17  10  16  19   5  15  +122  Holy Shield
Ryuto	12/6.27		37   20  11  16   9   7   8  +234  Magic Ring
Robin	4/10.39		30    9  10  12   6   5*  4  +  8  Leather Shield (+3 Def)

Silk	10.99		18   11   5  12   9*  2  11  + 16  Angel Ring (40 Lck)
Teeta	3.98		29   15  12  10   2   5  18  +298

 

 

On 10/26/2023 at 6:54 PM, Saint Rubenio said:

It's actually hideous, my goodness.

At least it only looks awful. Playing these tiny maps is just silly, in a "what, that's all?" kind of way, not an awful experience like Celica's Chapter 3.

On 10/26/2023 at 7:22 PM, Punished Dayni said:

And here's the thing: I get some reasoning for her choosing to listen to Jedah.

In the context of how silly it's presented and how things pan out I will not argue here today.

Also the context of almost every female FE lord getting shoved to the sidelines. I'm sure there's always some justification in any given FE game, but the trend is very hard to discuss away. Definitely a topic that invides heated discussions, though :lol:

On 10/27/2023 at 2:29 AM, Jotari said:

I get how the tower fights are silly (and easy), but I do like the Gaiden tower fights better than Shadows of Valentia, since at least the Gaiden tower fights look like they were actually designed and not just randomly generated. This goes doubly so for the later Duma temple fights where they actually do a lot of fun things with traps and actually have you fight some of the boss enemies (or unique identical classes pretending to be characters? It's kind of vague) that appear in the final map.

Yes, but apart from the first fight, which works decent enough in its small ways, they're really not designed very well at all. It's just one Bow Knight and 3 Necrodragons, in formations that are basically just gotchas if you didn't reorder your team properly. As soon as you field the Whitewings instead of some squishy low-level mages, it's the most trivial two-round fights in the world.

On 10/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, Shaky Jones said:

That isn't Valbo.

I guess reading American minds didn't work. 😕 Must be their horrible accent.

On 10/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, Shaky Jones said:

Somehow better than SoV. At least we didn't have a stupid ass Sirius wannabe and co yell at your stupidity before entering the bad room, with a scene back at the lost woods where you basically shadow call Alm just to admit that you're in the wrong instead of being the saint in Alm's conquest. Least this can be chalked up to "you tried confronting the baddie, but he trapped you" which fits more here based off of how act 5 goes. But Kaga clearly would prefer the remake's Celica for what happens next.

At least I Echoes is still only halfway at Book 2's four mind-controlled girls, I believe.

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On 10/26/2023 at 7:22 PM, Punished Dayni said:

I was on about glasses there, but yes, few can match Nomah's beard game.

Sorry. You know how I get about beards.

On 10/26/2023 at 7:22 PM, Punished Dayni said:

Mycen couldn't have been honest about what he was covering up he had his justice /s

Fair enough, but still. His name is Meißen! Surely he deserves some slack!

On 10/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, Shaky Jones said:

You hate me cuz you ain't me.

 

I don't take criticism from people who can't do it better. Now do my thing Ruben.

I don't think I comfortably can.

On 10/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, Shaky Jones said:

Can he just stick to what makes FE good?

Are you crazy? He's Kaga.

On 10/27/2023 at 3:38 AM, Shaky Jones said:

We Americans don't make mistakes. We blow them up.

That is also one of the seven mistakes.

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

tk3vii7.png

And this looks vaguely familiar from watching an Echoes LP... I don't quite remember *what* Alm saw through those bars, but I think there was a very dramatic scene in this location.

It was extremely stupid.

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

In *somewhat* of a defense of Echoes... Celica's complete lack of agency at this stage is definitely already a thing in Gaiden too. This chapter, on her side, really played out like this:

Judah: "Come to Doma's Tower or Alm will die."
Celica: "..." *proceeds to come to Doma's Tower*
Judah: "Jump down this cliff or Alm will die."
Celica: "..." *proceeds to jump down this cliff*
Judah: "And now I shall kill you. Slowly."
Celica: "..." *presumably waits for Alm to save her*

In fairness, at least this time Alm is in actual inescapable danger, or will soon be anyway. In Echoes she just gets bamboozled. And then mind controlled, which doesn't happen here. Here she's herself and fighting for her life the entire time until Alm gets there. Still gets saved, but it's less Kaga than the... non-Kaga remake. Somehow.

8 minutes ago, gnip said:

ETaIY5r.png

So then, back to the real protagonist. (I'm talking about Ryuto, obviously)

Fire Pickings: Easy

9 minutes ago, gnip said:

0O7eS6o.png

This shot actually looks good.  Putting those NES graphics to their best use since the start of this adventure.

12 minutes ago, gnip said:

8FHddgL.png

Easy to pick who can help us with that.

The Ryutoposting is starting to get seriously creative.

13 minutes ago, gnip said:

Also the context of almost every female FE lord getting shoved to the sidelines. I'm sure there's always some justification in any given FE game, but the trend is very hard to discuss away. Definitely a topic that invides heated discussions, though :lol:

Say what you will about her but this never does happen to Edelg-- Oh wait right, Hopes. Whoopsie!

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4 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Say what you will about her but this never does happen to Edelg-- Oh wait right, Hopes. Whoopsie!

I've seen her brought up as an example of the series finally getting it better, so that seems to be an oof moment. I'm fully ignorant of Hopes (and still largely of Houses, too), though, so I'll keep it formulated as a hypothetical.

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10 hours ago, gnip said:

So, back to Alm. The next three fights are... something, to a large part because it counts as the Necrodragons attacking Alm, not the other way around.

pKW1c0f.png

Urgency. What a genius move by Kaga. He can't stop inconveniencing the player for shits and giggles narrative struggle.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

i3fCXX0.png

And then Teeta is dead.

Like, turn 1, no counterplay available, she just happens to be in range of a Necrodragon who one-rounds her. Thank you S. Kaga, very cool.

v2GFI6o.png

10 hours ago, gnip said:

bYoq8xK.png: "Follow me if you want to save him. If you sacrifice yourselves to Lord Doma, Alm's path shall again open up!"

lZmdwnU.png

So Celica jumps down the tower into some dungeon. Azura convincing Corrin to jump down a cliff? #KagaDidItFirst

Not in the slightest.

Corrin is just blindly following Azura's recommendations because they're too stupid to think, but it just so happens to work.

In here, as simple as it is, Celica was basically made to see Alm supposedly get nearly killed by a seemingly endless barrage of necro-dragons. She's given a choice of whether to keep waiting for Alm to inevitably fall (although in gameplay you would eventually reach lvl 20 and your weapons don't break), or to do what he says because it's the only other way (it can't be turn 4 to kill him if there's no battle sequence lmao gottem). It basically boils down to "you have to or he dies" and in a game where there's an extremely forced romance, it'd be odd to not do it. If the game wanted to be cool, it'd have him ask you to give up, and each time you said no, it'd spawn more dragons. They'd get harder. Eventually, the player will realize "I can't do this" and that would be Celica's worry of Alm dying from the endless series of dragon fights. It's not a grand vision or any great design on Kaga's part, but it works well enough, and it far exceeds the garbage that SoV does. 

"Celica! Don't do the thing!"

"I will do the thing"

*everyone but Celica gets thrown in*

"It's Kaga time!"

*ensue forced premonition chapter*

It pisses me off everytime. So pointless!

10 hours ago, gnip said:

And this looks vaguely familiar from watching an Echoes LP... I don't quite remember *what* Alm saw through those bars, but I think there was a very dramatic scene in this location.

A very bad scene.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

wFasslw.png

Anyway, you again find Judah in the northeast corner of the cave.

bYoq8xK.png: "Heheh, so you're finally here. This is Doma's Altar, our site of human suffering. Thus I shall kill you slowly and painfully. Your pain will be Lord Doma's magnificent feast..."

I remember finding it genuinely cool that you can walk around endgame as a room here, having to walk up to Judah. I dunno. Something about that is just cool to see in FE. He got you good, and at least Celica herself gets to be trapped with her companions instead of being the lone dumbass that gets everyone else in trouble. 

10 hours ago, gnip said:

In *somewhat* of a defense of Echoes... Celica's complete lack of agency at this stage is definitely already a thing in Gaiden too. This chapter, on her side, really played out like this:

Judah: "Come to Doma's Tower or Alm will die."
Celica: "..." *proceeds to come to Doma's Tower*
Judah: "Jump down this cliff or Alm will die."
Celica: "..." *proceeds to jump down this cliff*
Judah: "And now I shall kill you. Slowly."
Celica: "..." *presumably waits for Alm to save her*

Maybe they shoulda given at least one sentence to Celica during this, but if SoV taught me anything, Celica is best when she shuts the fuck up.

In here, she has to do this, for Alm. While she doesn't say anything, the implication is that she's willingly sacrificing herself for Alm knowing that Judah wants her dead. Alm needed her to do this, and now she needs him to finish off the job.

In SoV, she hopes that the satan man is actually nice, and now we get an unnecessary hypno Celica moment that lasts 20 seconds for the most pointless premonition feature and it makes Celica look even weaker and more helpless than she already was. She wanted to do this hoping that Alm wouldn't have any more troubles and just go home or some shit. Maybe Mila will just wake up and everything will be happy. Even if it is the same idea that SoV Alm needed Celica to submit to proceed, the presentation of this is awful with how gullible it makes Celica look during this whole ordeal, and the fact that ALL of her companions are yelling at her to NOT do this only makes it all worse. 

I won't say much else for now, but she's not purely waiting. Again, I'm not defending this as anything grand. It's super basic and cliche, but it's miles ahead of SoV. I'm only repeating the same 2 points because of just how flabbergasted I am at how badly SoV managed to screw up such a basic premise and made something WORSE than an NES fantasy hero trope.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

Next up is a shocking sight: A map that is actually quite good. No, really. Things happen, and you can actively make progress.

6tmPxri.png

A good gaiden map is a slightly under average FE1.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

Easy pickings.

I'm losing it.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

lp3VXQt.png

Worth mentioning that this map only gives you 20 turns to beat it, unlike every other fight, which has a limit of 40 turns. It's a bit of a mean trick, since failing to rout it in time will throw you back to the Necrodragon trap (and FEWoD appropriately warns for that in all-caps, bold letters), but it's not the most unreasonable turn limit. You really have the tools to be quick and aggressive on this map.

I never knew the game had turn limits.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

Also the context of almost every female FE lord getting shoved to the sidelines. I'm sure there's always some justification in any given FE game, but the trend is very hard to discuss away. Definitely a topic that invides heated discussions, though :lol:

I have the best idea. No more women! There can't be any Celicas to rage over or Edelgards to hate/simp for if they just don't exist. I'm a genius!

10 hours ago, gnip said:

Yes, but apart from the first fight, which works decent enough in its small ways, they're really not designed very well at all. It's just one Bow Knight and 3 Necrodragons, in formations that are basically just gotchas if you didn't reorder your team properly. As soon as you field the Whitewings instead of some squishy low-level mages, it's the most trivial two-round fights in the world

And anything else in this game is?

It's something. When you're playing Gaiden, you get desperate to praise anything that isn't green or brown.

10 hours ago, gnip said:

I guess reading American minds didn't work. 😕 Must be their horrible accent.

Me when people sound different:

EBGQIoG.png

10 hours ago, gnip said:

At least I Echoes is still only halfway at Book 2's four mind-controlled girls, I believe.

He can't keep getting away with this!

 

If only FE12 got rid of that. I'd be a happier bone. Instead, SoV opted to ADD more to it. What the fuck.

10 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't think I comfortably can.

Would you like me to assist you?

10 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

In fairness, at least this time Alm is in actual inescapable danger, or will soon be anyway. In Echoes she just gets bamboozled. And then mind controlled, which doesn't happen here. Here she's herself and fighting for her life the entire time until Alm gets there. Still gets saved, but it's less Kaga than the... non-Kaga remake. Somehow.

Sometimes, it simply has to end in "you get saved". It's not strictly forbidden to have. Preferrable if handled better, but not a warcrime to have in your game, especially in the 90's. Can't say I expected Celica to seismic toss Judah to the bottom floor of Doma tower and solo endgame while she then goes on to save Alm herself, even if that would be bloody hilarious. After what was obviously her saving Alm through making it here, opening the gate, and being forced to jump down the die hole, she did her part to do what Alm presumably couldn't have done on his own, and now he will help by making it to her and not letting her die this hard fought battle she worked so hard to get to. In SoV, even though it's technically the same from a gameplay perspective, they put an un-needed emphasis on her being extremely gullible, and way too many scenes of her being in trouble to which she needs direct help. 

10 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Say what you will about her but this never does happen to Edelg-- Oh wait right, Hopes. Whoopsie!

Get trolled lmao

Mega based. 

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1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Urgency. What a genius move by Kaga. He can't stop inconveniencing the player for shits and giggles narrative struggle.

v2GFI6o.png

Not in the slightest.

Corrin is just blindly following Azura's recommendations because they're too stupid to think, but it just so happens to work.

In here, as simple as it is, Celica was basically made to see Alm supposedly get nearly killed by a seemingly endless barrage of necro-dragons. She's given a choice of whether to keep waiting for Alm to inevitably fall (although in gameplay you would eventually reach lvl 20 and your weapons don't break), or to do what he says because it's the only other way (it can't be turn 4 to kill him if there's no battle sequence lmao gottem). It basically boils down to "you have to or he dies" and in a game where there's an extremely forced romance, it'd be odd to not do it. If the game wanted to be cool, it'd have him ask you to give up, and each time you said no, it'd spawn more dragons. They'd get harder. Eventually, the player will realize "I can't do this" and that would be Celica's worry of Alm dying from the endless series of dragon fights. It's not a grand vision or any great design on Kaga's part, but it works well enough, and it far exceeds the garbage that SoV does. 

"Celica! Don't do the thing!"

"I will do the thing"

*everyone but Celica gets thrown in*

"It's Kaga time!"

*ensue forced premonition chapter*

It pisses me off everytime. So pointless!

A very bad scene.

I remember finding it genuinely cool that you can walk around endgame as a room here, having to walk up to Judah. I dunno. Something about that is just cool to see in FE. He got you good, and at least Celica herself gets to be trapped with her companions instead of being the lone dumbass that gets everyone else in trouble. 

Maybe they shoulda given at least one sentence to Celica during this, but if SoV taught me anything, Celica is best when she shuts the fuck up.

In here, she has to do this, for Alm. While she doesn't say anything, the implication is that she's willingly sacrificing herself for Alm knowing that Judah wants her dead. Alm needed her to do this, and now she needs him to finish off the job.

In SoV, she hopes that the satan man is actually nice, and now we get an unnecessary hypno Celica moment that lasts 20 seconds for the most pointless premonition feature and it makes Celica look even weaker and more helpless than she already was. She wanted to do this hoping that Alm wouldn't have any more troubles and just go home or some shit. Maybe Mila will just wake up and everything will be happy. Even if it is the same idea that SoV Alm needed Celica to submit to proceed, the presentation of this is awful with how gullible it makes Celica look during this whole ordeal, and the fact that ALL of her companions are yelling at her to NOT do this only makes it all worse. 

I won't say much else for now, but she's not purely waiting. Again, I'm not defending this as anything grand. It's super basic and cliche, but it's miles ahead of SoV. I'm only repeating the same 2 points because of just how flabbergasted I am at how badly SoV managed to screw up such a basic premise and made something WORSE than an NES fantasy hero trope.

A good gaiden map is a slightly under average FE1.

I'm losing it.

I never knew the game had turn limits.

I have the best idea. No more women! There can't be any Celicas to rage over or Edelgards to hate/simp for if they just don't exist. I'm a genius!

And anything else in this game is?

It's something. When you're playing Gaiden, you get desperate to praise anything that isn't green or brown.

Me when people sound different:

EBGQIoG.png

He can't keep getting away with this!

 

If only FE12 got rid of that. I'd be a happier bone. Instead, SoV opted to ADD more to it. What the fuck.

Would you like me to assist you?

Sometimes, it simply has to end in "you get saved". It's not strictly forbidden to have. Preferrable if handled better, but not a warcrime to have in your game, especially in the 90's. Can't say I expected Celica to seismic toss Judah to the bottom floor of Doma tower and solo endgame while she then goes on to save Alm herself, even if that would be bloody hilarious. After what was obviously her saving Alm through making it here, opening the gate, and being forced to jump down the die hole, she did her part to do what Alm presumably couldn't have done on his own, and now he will help by making it to her and not letting her die this hard fought battle she worked so hard to get to. In SoV, even though it's technically the same from a gameplay perspective, they put an un-needed emphasis on her being extremely gullible, and way too many scenes of her being in trouble to which she needs direct help. 

Get trolled lmao

Mega based. 

1) Full agreement that it's cool to walk around the endgame chapter, was going to say it myself.

2)That idea of giving the player a yes no choice as Celica is really cool.

3)The Mystery of the Emblem remake actually added an additional mind controlled woman XD

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17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The Mystery of the Emblem remake actually added an additional mind controlled woman XD

Ah shit fuck. Guess fe12 ain't my favorite anymore.

 

Shadow Dragon! Oh how I missed you.

17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

2)That idea of giving the player a yes no choice as Celica is really cool.

Kaga really should hire me. I'll try to lessen the severity of his depravity while I'm there, until I'm inevitably turned into a Camus or something.

Edited by Shaky Jones
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FE2 Chapter 4: Dismal Nation

Hidden Shrine -> Some Fort in Rigel, I Guess 

Spoiler

R8IPSqf.png__mWJXuUa.png

We've seen this map before, with a swampy room in the back. This time, it's Zombies in the front and XP pinatas in the back.

sJyTXJk.png

The fight itself is obviously a joke at this point, so I'll just point out how Alm wastes the one Angel Ring level he's getting before swapping back to the Silver Bow.

I do get a few characters to promotion level (and Matilda to Lv.9, which I'm sure will be very important somewhere down the never):

48Q4UdZ.png__zVkrhrY.png__mNI1PoT.png

Silk, Baron, and Jesse, who of course also gets the +15 Res from the Dreadfighter class, too.

Also important is that Teeta reaches Fortify during the Mummy fight, which is going to be a big help in the upcoming fight.

8OlHnmy.png

The Lion Heads are Revival and Def. Surely nobody, or at least nobody important, will die before the end of the game...

V4ae8aF.png

...so +5 Def for Force it is. Obvious choice, since Ryuto easily picks off his enemies at range with help of the Magic Ring. Same logic as with Atlas on Celica's side.

1HkATVw.png

The next map definitely is one of the maps of all time. Not quite sure what adjective to pick. It looks very silly, once again, but I'll give it that it appears more purposeful than other silly maps: If you try to just push upwards, you'll be at a terrain disadvantage, as well as in range of four Bow Knights and two Wizards. 

I'm not sure if I like that purpose. On the one hand, this obviously massively encourages warp shenanigans, which always has a certain vibe of the map saying, "please don't play me". But as much as I generally prefer Seize over Rout as an objective - at least the latter doesn't have the same degeneracy with regards to warp shenanigans. You still have to eventually deal with the whole map, and using more than just one juggernaut makes the process faster, unlike the Akaneia strats of "warp in Caeda, kill boss, warp in Marth, GG."

B5XbMgw.png

The boss of the map is a strong Bow Knight. Nothing too fancy about him; 12 Spd is notably one point below Dyute and Ryuto's attack speed with Fire, so they match up quite nicely against him.

The generic enemies are all, well, generic. The Wizards do all have Fortify again, but there's nothing we haven't seen before.

bd4eAm6.png

Very obvious first move.

AcJzOZi.png

However, to make everybody else be a bit more useful, the rest of the team goes ahead and lures in some of the Bow Knights on the other side of the fortress, too. Luka and Zeke are just in range, allowing easy 2-range attacks on the next turn, while Alm just goes all-in against the boss's group.

v5Zr82X.png

Crit+Miss, I believe.

DrfcKpt.png

And as it works out, Claire gets the boss kill.

4AArQF6.png

Overall fairly productive. Alm managed to EP-kill a Wizard and a generic Bow Knight, as well, while Ryuto and Dyute got rid of the Bow Knight in the second column. And even though it's technically not the best option to give the rightmost enemies a target that they can shoot without eating a counter, overwhelming Force obviously has to be deployed.

xb5BAgv.png

With Teeta providing rather easy healing (you don't even have to check who's injured!), the rest of the map isn't much of a challenge.

m5wlYkH.png

The Barons are quite tanky, of course (though it would've helped if I had remembered to give Zeke an actual lance), but...

EQY0zsS.png

...only on the physical side. You know the meme.

RGpJRgW.png

After the fight, another Necrodragon group appears - 13 of them this time. Certainly one way to discourage grinding at the Hidden Shrine, assuming they do move from the crater.

I think I'll call it a day here, and hopefully get to the end of the game next time.

The Team:
 

	Lv.		HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  +XP   Item
Alm	10/9.72		40   18* 18  16* 13  12   4  +174  Silver Bow (+7 Atk, +10 hit, -2 Spd)
Force	10/11/1.48	42   26   6  10*  7  23   5  + 55* Quick Ring (40 Spd)
Luka	7/2.10		34   16*  6   5*  3  12   2  + 11  Knight Ln (+3 Atk, -5 Hit, -1 Spd)

Matilda	9.05		32   16  17  16  13  13  10  +109  Holy Ln (+3 Atk, +10 Crit)
Claire	13/4.88		40   17* 14  17* 22  12   8  + 52  Steel Ln (+4 Atk, -10 Hit, -1 Spd)
Cleive	7/2.88		28   12   7   8   9   8   1  +  6
Zeke	3.24		40   20  13  14   4  14   6  +  6

Jesse	7/10/1.79	36   18* 16  26* 15  11  22  +225* Silver Sw (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)
Cliff	4/11/10/4.54	44   23* 13  17  11  26   8  +100  Holy Bow (+5 Atk, +30 Hit, +10 Crit)
Gray	5/8/4.88	32   13* 11  14*  2   8   2  +  7  Bolt Sw (15 Atk, -3 Spd)
Python	6.09		25   11*  3   4*  2   6   4  + 10  Steel Bow (+3 Atk, -1 Spd)

Dyute	13.38		28   17  10  18  19   5  15  + 71  Magic Ring
Ryuto	12/7.02		37   20  11  16  11   7   8  + 80  Angel Ring
Robin	4/10.59		30    9  10  12   6   5*  4  + 20  Leather Shield (+3 Def)

Silk	12/1.14		30   11   5  14  11   8  11  +115* Holy Shield
Teeta	4.60		31   15  14  10   2   5  18  + 62  Prayer Ring

 

 

21 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Not in the slightest.

Corrin is just blindly following Azura's recommendations because they're too stupid to think, but it just so happens to work.

In here, as simple as it is, Celica was basically made to see Alm supposedly get nearly killed by a seemingly endless barrage of necro-dragons. She's given a choice of whether to keep waiting for Alm to inevitably fall (although in gameplay you would eventually reach lvl 20 and your weapons don't break), or to do what he says because it's the only other way (it can't be turn 4 to kill him if there's no battle sequence lmao gottem). It basically boils down to "you have to or he dies" and in a game where there's an extremely forced romance, it'd be odd to not do it. If the game wanted to be cool, it'd have him ask you to give up, and each time you said no, it'd spawn more dragons. They'd get harder. Eventually, the player will realize "I can't do this" and that would be Celica's worry of Alm dying from the endless series of dragon fights. It's not a grand vision or any great design on Kaga's part, but it works well enough, and it far exceeds the garbage that SoV does. 

So basically, Kaga did it first, and better?

Good points, overall. I still don't really like how Celica ultimately doesn't do anything during all of this, except of following Judah's orders, but I can agree that her hand seems more forced, instead of bamboozlement.

--

With the end of Gaiden approaching, character requests for Book 1 can be made. Shitty epic Cav of the hour is going to be Biraku/Vyland, Bantu shall be used at least for a while, and I assume Maji is non-negotioable.  

Edited by gnip
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10 minutes ago, gnip said:

this obviously massively encourages warp shenanigans, which always has a certain vibe of the map saying, "please don't play me".

We'll come back to this when we get to Thracia.

1 minute ago, gnip said:

With the end of Gaiden approaching, character requests for Book 1 can be made. 

Book 1, huh.

Matthis is only in book 2 in this game, right? Hmm. Macellan.

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3 hours ago, gnip said:

FE2 Chapter 4: Dismal Nation

Hidden Shrine -> Some Fort in Rigel, I Guess 

  Hide contents

R8IPSqf.png__mWJXuUa.png

We've seen this map before, with a swampy room in the back. This time, it's Zombies in the front and XP pinatas in the back.

sJyTXJk.png

The fight itself is obviously a joke at this point, so I'll just point out how Alm wastes the one Angel Ring level he's getting before swapping back to the Silver Bow.

I do get a few characters to promotion level (and Matilda to Lv.9, which I'm sure will be very important somewhere down the never):

48Q4UdZ.png__zVkrhrY.png__mNI1PoT.png

Silk, Baron, and Jesse, who of course also gets the +15 Res from the Dreadfighter class, too.

Also important is that Teeta reaches Fortify during the Mummy fight, which is going to be a big help in the upcoming fight.

8OlHnmy.png

The Lion Heads are Revival and Def. Surely nobody, or at least nobody important, will die before the end of the game...

V4ae8aF.png

...so +5 Def for Force it is. Obvious choice, since Ryuto easily picks off his enemies at range with help of the Magic Ring. Same logic as with Atlas on Celica's side.

1HkATVw.png

The next map definitely is one of the maps of all time. Not quite sure what adjective to pick. It looks very silly, once again, but I'll give it that it appears more purposeful than other silly maps: If you try to just push upwards, you'll be at a terrain disadvantage, as well as in range of four Bow Knights and two Wizards. 

I'm not sure if I like that purpose. On the one hand, this obviously massively encourages warp shenanigans, which always has a certain vibe of the map saying, "please don't play me". But as much as I generally prefer Seize over Rout as an objective - at least the latter doesn't have the same degeneracy with regards to warp shenanigans. You still have to eventually deal with the whole map, and using more than just one juggernaut makes the process faster, unlike the Akaneia strats of "warp in Caeda, kill boss, warp in Marth, GG."

B5XbMgw.png

The boss of the map is a strong Bow Knight. Nothing too fancy about him; 12 Spd is notably one point below Dyute and Ryuto's attack speed with Fire, so they match up quite nicely against him.

The generic enemies are all, well, generic. The Wizards do all have Fortify again, but there's nothing we haven't seen before.

bd4eAm6.png

Very obvious first move.

AcJzOZi.png

However, to make everybody else be a bit more useful, the rest of the team goes ahead and lures in some of the Bow Knights on the other side of the fortress, too. Luka and Zeke are just in range, allowing easy 2-range attacks on the next turn, while Alm just goes all-in against the boss's group.

v5Zr82X.png

Crit+Miss, I believe.

DrfcKpt.png

And as it works out, Claire gets the boss kill.

4AArQF6.png

Overall fairly productive. Alm managed to EP-kill a Wizard and a generic Bow Knight, as well, while Ryuto and Dyute got rid of the Bow Knight in the second column. And even though it's technically not the best option to give the rightmost enemies a target that they can shoot without eating a counter, overwhelming Force obviously has to be deployed.

xb5BAgv.png

With Teeta providing rather easy healing (you don't even have to check who's injured!), the rest of the map isn't much of a challenge.

m5wlYkH.png

The Barons are quite tanky, of course (though it would've helped if I had remembered to give Zeke an actual lance), but...

EQY0zsS.png

...only on the physical side. You know the meme.

RGpJRgW.png

After the fight, another Necrodragon group appears - 13 of them this time. Certainly one way to discourage grinding at the Hidden Shrine, assuming they do move from the crater.

I think I'll call it a day here, and hopefully get to the end of the game next time.

The Team:
 

	Lv.		HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  +XP   Item
Alm	10/9.72		40   18* 18  16* 13  12   4  +174  Silver Bow (+7 Atk, +10 hit, -2 Spd)
Force	10/11/1.48	42   26   6  10*  7  23   5  + 55* Quick Ring (40 Spd)
Luka	7/2.10		34   16*  6   5*  3  12   2  + 11  Knight Ln (+3 Atk, -5 Hit, -1 Spd)

Matilda	9.05		32   16  17  16  13  13  10  +109  Holy Ln (+3 Atk, +10 Crit)
Claire	13/4.88		40   17* 14  17* 22  12   8  + 52  Steel Ln (+4 Atk, -10 Hit, -1 Spd)
Cleive	7/2.88		28   12   7   8   9   8   1  +  6
Zeke	3.24		40   20  13  14   4  14   6  +  6

Jesse	7/10/1.79	36   18* 16  26* 15  11  22  +225* Silver Sw (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)
Cliff	4/11/10/4.54	44   23* 13  17  11  26   8  +100  Holy Bow (+5 Atk, +30 Hit, +10 Crit)
Gray	5/8/4.88	32   13* 11  14*  2   8   2  +  7  Bolt Sw (15 Atk, -3 Spd)
Python	6.09		25   11*  3   4*  2   6   4  + 10  Steel Bow (+3 Atk, -1 Spd)

Dyute	13.38		28   17  10  18  19   5  15  + 71  Magic Ring
Ryuto	12/7.02		37   20  11  16  11   7   8  + 80  Angel Ring
Robin	4/10.59		30    9  10  12   6   5*  4  + 20  Leather Shield (+3 Def)

Silk	12/1.14		30   11   5  14  11   8  11  +115* Holy Shield
Teeta	4.60		31   15  14  10   2   5  18  + 62  Prayer Ring

 

 

So basically, Kaga did it first, and better?

Good points, overall. I still don't really like how Celica ultimately doesn't do anything during all of this, except of following Judah's orders, but I can agree that her hand seems more forced, instead of bamboozlement.

--

With the end of Gaiden approaching, character requests for Book 1 can be made. Shitty epic Cav of the hour is going to be Biraku/Vyland, Bantu shall be used at least for a while, and I assume Maji is non-negotioable.  

Bantu dies have the nice advantage of tanking dragons as he reduces their Luna effect.

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

We'll come back to this when we get to Thracia.

Book 1, huh.

Matthis is only in book 2 in this game, right? Hmm. Macellan.

Pretty sure no Macellean, given at least in New Mystery he's one of those "painfully contrived just shows up out of nowhere" guys. Hey, at least he knew Marth before, unlike the Arc Saga characters.

Oh, scratch that, we're doing book 1 first. Course. Someone needs to be in that prison.

 

In light of that, I suggest we make the Mystery of the Emblem experience dramatic. And by that I mean, use Hardin.

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8 hours ago, gnip said:

1HkATVw.png

The next map definitely is one of the maps of all time. Not quite sure what adjective to pick. It looks very silly, once again, but I'll give it that it appears more purposeful than other silly maps: If you try to just push upwards, you'll be at a terrain disadvantage, as well as in range of four Bow Knights and two Wizards.

As a fortress, it indeed looks nonsensical from a realism perspective.

Although, the idea of narrow corridors where you get shot at from both sides over walls is one that FE certainly brought back later. A particular Thracia chapter comes to mind, as does Fort Rigwald (the first of the Ephraim route battles), and so does Ryoma's Duel & Lunge Fun.

 

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Book 1, huh.

Matthis is only in book 2 in this game, right? Hmm. Macellan.

Matt is around in Book 1. Whereas Darros and Wrys disappeared though their maps were kept, Matthis's map disappeared yet he endured (as did Merric of course). He got tossed into Hardin's map, slamming into Wendel and knocking him into the Aurelis indoors battle in doing so. 

I think it actually arguably makes more sense throwing Wendel into jail. The gentle old man could plausibly hang around the Orleans-attacking bad guys while free, the enemy is Macedon, not Gharnef whose reign in Khadein Wendel fled. Yet it too is feasible he could be thrown in prison.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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11 hours ago, gnip said:

__mWJXuUa.png

We've seen this map before, with a swampy room in the back. This time, it's Zombies in the front and XP pinatas in the back.

XP reminds me of money. I like money. You kill a guy, you earn a lot of their money. Cha ching!

That's the best way to view rich people. Money pinatas.

11 hours ago, gnip said:

V4ae8aF.png

...so +5 Def for Force it is. Obvious choice, since Ryuto easily picks off his enemies at range with help of the Magic Ring. Same logic as with Atlas on Celica's side.

I'm never using the word pick ever again.

11 hours ago, gnip said:

1HkATVw.png

The next map definitely is one of the maps of all time. Not quite sure what adjective to pick. It looks very silly, once again, but I'll give it that it appears more purposeful than other silly maps: If you try to just push upwards, you'll be at a terrain disadvantage, as well as in range of four Bow Knights and two Wizards. 

"Oh...Slayde's here. Okay."

11 hours ago, gnip said:

DrfcKpt.png

And as it works out, Claire gets the boss kill.

Yuck.

11 hours ago, gnip said:

So basically, Kaga did it first, and better?

Imagine telling someone that Kaga did something first concerning a remake of his own game.

11 hours ago, gnip said:

Good points, overall. I still don't really like how Celica ultimately doesn't do anything during all of this, except of following Judah's orders, but I can agree that her hand seems more forced, instead of bamboozlement.

Well she's still a woman

11 hours ago, gnip said:

With the end of Gaiden approaching, character requests for Book 1 can be made. Shitty epic Cav of the hour is going to be Biraku/Vyland, Bantu shall be used at least for a while, and I assume Maji is non-negotioable.  

If you thought FE1 Maji was hard to use, hoo boy...

 

Then again, I really would like to see Arran gaming across both books. Come on. Dayners. Observo. Joticki even. Help me out here.

10 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Book 1, huh.

Matthis is only in book 2 in this game, right? Hmm. Macellan.

Wow you don't know fucking anything about this game.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Bantu dies

NOOOOOO

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh, scratch that, we're doing book 1 first. Course. Someone needs to be in that prison.

 

In light of that, I suggest we make the Mystery of the Emblem experience dramatic. And by that I mean, use Hardin.

Biraku fans weep.

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5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I think it actually arguably makes more sense throwing Wendel into jail. The gentle old man could plausibly hang around the Orleans-attacking bad guys while free, the enemy is Macedon, not Gharnef whose reign in Khadein Wendel fled. Yet it too is feasible he could be thrown in prison.

Yeah, I always felt his book 1 situation felt more natural.

3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

"Oh...Slayde's here. Okay."

They banished Seazas to the shadow realm to let Berkut lead his map, but they didn't do the same with Mueller. Instead Slayde is just... sort of a miniboss here. Why spare him if that's all you're going to do with him?

3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Wow you don't know fucking anything about this game.

Why did everyone think I was referring to book 2? Gnip specifically asked for book 1 picks. I don't think it was that unclear!

...Funnily enough, I have played like half of book 1, so the fact that I forgot Matthis is there is kind of something lol

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, I always felt his book 1 situation felt more natural.

They banished Seazas to the shadow realm to let Berkut lead his map, but they didn't do the same with Mueller. Instead Slayde is just... sort of a miniboss here. Why spare him if that's all you're going to do with him?

Why did everyone think I was referring to book 2? Gnip specifically asked for book 1 picks. I don't think it was that unclear!

...Funnily enough, I have played like half of book 1, so the fact that I forgot Matthis is there is kind of something lol

Because with the release of Shadow Dragon on DS, Book 1 has very little reason to exist. It's not the original story, and it isn't the HD remake any more. It's just that weird repeat of stuff that's kind of different in some areas that serves as an addendum to that other game that had the original Archanea sequel.

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6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

They banished Seazas to the shadow realm to let Berkut lead his map, but they didn't do the same with Mueller. Instead Slayde is just... sort of a miniboss here. Why spare him if that's all you're going to do with him?

SoV design, the definition of a siren. Vocal seduction that lures one into a trap where they are mutilated by the monster within. 

 

Voice acting le good. Game design le bad.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Why did everyone think I was referring to book 2? Gnip specifically asked for book 1 picks. I don't think it was that unclear!

Its because we can't hear you clearly with all that bullshit in your mouth.

6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Funnily enough, I have played like half of book 1, so the fact that I forgot Matthis is there is kind of something lol

It means you're getting older. 

Your Matthis badge is revoked. 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Because with the release of Shadow Dragon on DS, Book 1 has very little reason to exist. It's not the original story, and it isn't the HD remake any more. It's just that weird repeat of stuff that's kind of different in some areas that serves as an addendum to that other game that had the original Archanea sequel

I'm sure fe3 fans mald and seethe upon being told fe3 isn't canon and Kris is. Unlucky!

It is sad that Wrys is canonically revoked from the Archenean history books despite being of crucial importance to early game fe12. Society moment. But yeah, it was cool pf Kaga to redo fe1 for a sequel so people can start FE on the SNES with actual battle stat display and an inventory, but nowadays you're either playing fe11 or fe1 for the sake of seeing how it all began.

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Note to start, written after finishing the rest: I didn't finish the game as I said I would try to, but I think this post is long enough as is. I didn't think that there would be that much stuff between Rudolf and Doma. I might do the final fight and the Gaiden summary in one post, but we'll see. 

FE2 Chapter 4: Dismal Nation

Dad's Home

Spoiler

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Patricide time!

Vf6vWd6.png: "I see, so you've come at last... I leave this to fate now as a knight of Rigel. Men! You have fought well thus far! However...The Rigelian Empire's time has ended. Hear me, all of you! This is my final request. If I should fall, don't interfere. Those remaining should surrender courageously. Do not feel disgraced! Is that clear? Don't die in vain!"

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This map is largely focused on its lower half. There is, of course, a path to loop around and onto the walls, but it seems to works out better to use your own 1-5 range to fire up the walls, warp in some folks, and use the choke point to fend up enemies that may loop around the other way and down the walls.

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Rudolf himself has a nasty combination of high physical Def and high magical Avoid, thanks to the Angel Ring he's carrying. Rather fast, too, doubling most characters on Alm's side, with the only exceptions being Claire and Jesse.

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The obvious move, once again, is to warp in Cliff, into Rudolf's corner on the right side of the map. Like, if they let that healing tile open...

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He'd take a while to wittle down Rudolf - remember the healing from the Angel Ring - but he can start working on all the generic enemies at the same time. Even against the Barons, he deals 2x10 damage.

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Alm and Ryuto were positioned to counterattack a bit on enemy phase, too. Claire uses Alm's chip to grab a kill...

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...which also lures a bunch of the enemies further away from our main group, splitting the group in two.

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Alm is the second unit to get warped in. Interestingly, Rudolf will pick him as an attacking target (which makes sense given that the other option is Cliff), but then mysteriously not stab him. I would've expected that he wouldn't engage Alm to begin with.

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Doing so brings him into Ryuto's range, who can pick away at his HP - not very reliably, even with Excalibur, but he hits for a respectable 19 damage, and gets lucky twice in a row.

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After that, Rudolf goes into coward AI, which I also wouldn't have expected, considering he's currently committing suicide by offspring. Feels like one of those narrative details that Kaga would include.

Oh, and the main group is starting to fight some enemies. Not really worth talking about, the choke point makes it rather easy to keep everybody safe.

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What is very much worth talking about is Force getting a +2 Spd level.

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To avoid a big chase around the map, Cliff makes room so that Rudolf can "flee" to the healing tile he was occupying. Ryuto gets warped in next, but he gets two misses this time around.

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Third time's the charm, though.

Vf6vWd6.png: "Alm... You've grown up well... Was it no mistake entrusting you to Sir Mycen after all? You figured it out by now, right? Your full name is Albyne Alm Rudolf. My...only son... Guh... I have a last request... Use 'Falcion', the holy sword that sealed Mila... Defeat...the evil god...Doma..."

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Vot a tveest!

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And as Rudolf's speech to his soldiers at the start of the map suggested, this is indeed a Kill Boss map, instead of the usual Rout. Now, finally, the Jeigan of Alm's route can join us:

yyCntCs.png: "Ah, Gramps-- what the hell is going on!? How could such an evil man as King Rudolf be my father?!"
i81gQij.png: "Alm. Your shok is understandable... But now you are the only remaining heir of Rigel's royal family."

"Apart from some nephew or something. Wonder what the boy is up to these days."

yyCntCs.png: "But why... Why couldn't I avoid fighting my own father?"
i81gQij.png: "Don't cry, Alm... Let me clarify your father's actions. Valencia became divided because of the gods. They have involved themselves too deeply with mankind's affairs. As a result, the people have lost balance and head for ruin. After some consideration, Rudolf posed as a destroyer to instigate the advent of true heroes in Valencia. I was told this when he placed his newborn child into my hands: "This child will consign himself to hell's fire! I couldn't refuse him. And so, I left all to fate. Alm. You mustn't let Rudolf's sacrifice be in vain. Go underground and slay the evil god Doma!"

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I'll give the plan a 7.76 on a scale between 1 and Corrin. It does have the same nature of plunging the continent into war, presumably killing thousands of people, while relying on many things going exactly right that aren't under your control at all. I also don't quite understand why Rudolf couldn't have attempted to kill Doma himself, so... yeah, I'm not quite on board with this reveal.

FE2 Chapter 5: Reunion, yet...

Dad's Basement

Spoiler

Before heading towards the final battle, there's a few NPC lines:

Gkyi4GZ.png"Prince Albyne. I am General Massena, the captain of the king's guards. We have heard our late King's final words and assembled here."

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"It's said that there's no return once you've entered. Your Highness, please take care!"

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And indeed, after entering the second screen, the path back gets blocked. 

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Occasionally (and randomly, I think), after entering a new screen, this pop-up turns up, in which a few characters on Celica's team lose a few hit points - 4 HP for Kamui and 3 HP for Dean this time, to give you an idea of the magnitude. I wonder if this can actually kill characters, or if Celica will just be accompanied by a bunch of characters with 1 HP if you keep losing your way. I didn't see Celica lose any HP, so it seems that it isn't possible to get a game over by dawdling.

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A bit later, you can actually see Celica struggling. Technically in the wrong part of the map, but I can forgive that. If you approach the bars, Celica will notice you and come over:

yyCntCs.png: "Celica!"

sSfVXjI.png"Ah! Alm, help us... At this rate, everyone will... H-hurry... Please..."

Dramatically appropriate, you can't get directly to Celica, though.

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A bit later, there's another hidden path like at the sluice gate for Celica earlier...

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...this time leading to Mycen's personal weapon. 

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I'll be honest - I'm just using FEWoD here. The entire complex isn't terribly difficult to navigate, but this just isn't something I enjoy doing. I'll give Gaiden this though - it came a long  way from the ""dungeons"" in chapter 1.

On this screen, you have to pick the correct hole to fall through...

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...which will just send you back to seemingly the same room. Going the wrong way will send you to some dead end elsewhere, adding more screen transitions during which Celica's group can take damage.

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If successful, you'll be thrown into battle when leaving the screen. Not the most pretty map I've ever seen, but it's effective enough.

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What's also effective is Dyute nuking the Canter on turn 1 with the help of the Magic Ring. 

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What's not very effective is the Witch AI. This is on enemy phase, so she was not very good at picking a weak target. The next turn, another Witch tries to warp just north of the main group... forgetting that there's an impassable wall in the way, so she just fell behind a tile or three by that manoeuvre.

MCsPCwp.png

Well, OK, the map wasn't that effective, I just wanted to make that word play. Not terrible, either, but just not much of a challenge.

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Some more screens, and another room with holes in the ground to jump through. This time, the one on the top is the correct one.

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Again, a fight after you jump through the right hoop.

This map looks incredibly dull, but it does have one interesting mechanic:

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After Cliff takes a shot at the Big Ol' Eye, one of the Dreadfighters gets teleported out of that cell. It's collected to the "weird healing tile" and it'll happen a few more times, but I'm not sure what precisely triggers it.

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Teeta unfortunately misses an Angel spell from downtown, which allows the Bigle to split once, but luckily that's all the multiplication happening this fight.

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After the first Dreadfighter, who just appeared right outside the cell, the other ones appear in the southeast part of the map, where Force and Meißen take care of them with absolutely zero problem.

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...oh wait, there's a boss on this map?

...there's three?

a0F4ovm.png__07HfBNx.png__NzEcYv3.png

Commander Badass and his two underlings. How nice. Manly Guys doing Manly Things was a fun webcomic, although I lost track of it at some point and never got back into it. I still name my Magikarps Mr Fish, though.

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I think the fact that I wouldn't even have noticed the bosses if it wasn't for their unique names should tell you everything about the map. Cool little trick, but way too easy to be interesting.

BYnb8HN.png__BSe4O4m.png

Next hole jumping, next fight, in what appears to be an entirely featureless map.

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Well, there's some swamp at the southern end, but that's all.

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Turn one, both the Bigles and one of the Dreadfighters get removed without too much hassle; second Dreadfighter decides to be dodgy. With that, the rest of the enemies don't seem too threatening, with the HiKnights' low movement and the Witches' low IQ.

zX4VSt4.png

However, there is actually a gimmick to this map: Every turn, the swamp advances one row of tiles. Neat!

However however, the map is still quite easy. Just not the types of enemies that really threaten you, or rather, the threatening enemies can be picked off isolated and on turn 1/2 very easily. Although I don't want to complain too much that the completely empty map doesn't swarm you with 590 Necrodragons.

xChkosP.png

Saints, like Alm's promoted class, also have really high XP gain. We've already seen Teeta gain more levels than you might've expected on the Necrodragon map, but I thought I'd mention it.

Increased XP gain for healers? #KagaDidItFirst

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I also expect recognition for making sure that Mycen is given the Angel Ring for a second, to be sure he can make full use of his remarkable growths.

b0DGZId.png

After this, Alm finds a door that looks important enough. Also blue, as opposed to all the green and brown maps, so you know it's something special.

wouRJRR.png__VcPhS9k.png__hwmjFoM.png

It leads him into three solo fights that are all really, really easy.

76yVRsc.png

Now, he doesn't quite one-round the Wights in the first fight, even though he grabbed Cliff's Holy Bow for this, but they deal a whopping three damage in return, so Alm can just run out into the open and kill them all on enemy phase within three turns.

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The Deathgoyles he does cleanly one-round.

f6nf3xk.png

And while the White Dragons are a bit more tanky, there's also only the two. And they still get two-rounded.

sXsw24O.png

As a result, Judah's stunning hex!, which removes Alm's player phase action, doesn't really have as much sting as he might have expected.

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And Falcion received. After this, we have to backtrack a bit...

mjmiZTM.png__NT7o4nN.png

...and jump through holes again. It seems that this time, the second time you actually have to pick the correct *tile*, not just the correct 1x3 hole.

FYtJkaF.png

But with that, it is finally time for Alm to join Celica's fight.

yyCntCs.png: "Celica?!"

sSfVXjI.png"Alm..."

sAOP6js.png

It's the meme line! ...or the other meme line, I think Dozer's "Shit!" is memed upon even more.

sSfVXjI.png: "It won't work. Judah somehow seals all attacks. Plus, Bigles keep spawning and entangling us. We're done for... Sorry, Alm. I was weak after all. I've had an odd premonition that pain awaits you... That's why I left on a quest to save Mila... That's why I didn't want you to fight yet. I'm sorry I acted so cold... The truth is, I've always..."
yyCntCs.png: "I understand. But Celica! Focus on escaping! I'll definitely save you, so hang on!"

I like this explanation for Celica being a bit unreasonable when she and Alm met earlier. But the part where she only left because of Alm, not in order to, like, save the world? Ehhh.....

1PxC1GQ.png__qmsEtRq.png

Anyway, it isn't fighty time yet, but here's the HP levels on Celica's party. Nobody critically injured, but noticable damage overall.

OdgVA2b.png

And while I haven't played a single turn of the map just yet, I did take a look already. That's a lot of Bigles.

Bs6VNs0.png

North of Alm is the very memorable boss trio from a very memorable map earlier this update.

7M9RnJs.png__hJfcLGa.png

North of the Bigle swarm is Judah, carrying a Magic Ring and still with his "every fourth turn" power from before, according to FEWoD. He doesn't seem to have a summoning spell, though, so hopefully not an infinitude of Bigles this time.

Doma is flanked by two Bow Knights named Gold, as well as... Gharnef? Well, show's over, we can't win against himSeems I forgot to pull those two pictures onto the USB stick. Imagine two generic enemies, although Gharnef does have a portrait. Nuibaba's, I believe. And a slightly different name, although I don't know how that is in Japanese.

0iJmST7.png__mwU8nYQ.png

And, of course, Sonia's sisters, who we've defeated before but who apparently retreated. That, or these are zombies. Wouldn't be unprecedented, given that entire graveyards have been raised at this point.

zHa3edf.png

And finally some scrub who apparently doesn't even have a portrait. Can't be very important. Rather pretentious-sounding class name, though. 

The Teams:

	Lv.		HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  +XP   Item
Alm	10/13.54	43   22* 22  17  13  13   4  +412  Falcion (+10 Atk, -10 hit)
Mycen	8.07		46   22* 14  11   3  18   8  +107  Gradivüü (15 Atk, +10 hit)
Force	10/11/2.88	42   26   6* 12*  7  23   5  +140  Quick Ring (40 Spd)
Claire	13/5.78		40   17* 16  17  22  12   8  + 90  Holy Ln (+3 Atk, +10 Crit)

Cliff	4/11/10/6.65	45   23* 14  18  11  27   8  +211  Holy Bow (+5 Atk, +30 Hit, +10 Crit)
Jesse	7/10/4.48	39   21* 17  27* 15  11  22  +269  Silver Sw (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)

Ryuto	12/8.78		37   20  11  16  13   7   8  +176  Magic Ring
Dyute	15.25		28   17  10  18  23*  5  15  +187  Angel Ring (40 Lck)
Teeta	5.99		31   15  14  10   2*  5  18  +139  Angel Ring (40 Lck)
Silk	12/2.70		31   12   5  14  11   8  11  +156  Holy Shield
	Lv.	   HP  Pow Skl Spd Lck Def Res  Item
Celica	10/10.38   27   16* 12  14  17  12   7  Hero Sw (+5 Atk, +10 hit, +30 crit)
Noma	8.32	   28   12  18   8   1   6* 14	Steel Sh (+5 Def)

Jenny	13/1.16	   30   15  10   7   8   8  13  Holy Ring
Atlas	10/12/2.16 44   24  12  10   4   9   4  Magic Ring
Boey	10.78	   28    8   2  11  10   7*  7  Leather Sh (+3 Def)

Dean	10/1.17	   36   19* 18  18*  8  11  19  Dark Sw (+13 Atk, -20 hit, -5 Spd)
Kamui	8/10/1.00  41   16* 17  18   2  11  17  Holy Sw (+3 Atk, +10 hit, +15 crit)

Palla	12/2.60	   42   20*  9  10*  4  14   5  Steel Ln (+4 Atk, -10 hit, -1 Spd)
Est	12/3.62	   40   19* 12  15* 14  15  12  Silver Ln (+8 Atk, -1 Spd)
Catria	12/3.05	   41   16* 24  18* 16  12   9  Javelin (+3 Atk, -20 hit, -2 Spd)

 

 

23 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Book 1, huh.

Matthis is only in book 2 in this game, right? Hmm. Macellan.

I decided to distribute the three epic Cavs over the three Mars games, if you recall, so that's why Biraku is obligatory in Book 1. And I think Dayni specifically requested him in that incarnation, too.

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

In light of that, I suggest we make the Mystery of the Emblem experience dramatic. And by that I mean, use Hardin.

I appreciate that I'm going to be "forced" to used a good unit. :lol: 

15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Although, the idea of narrow corridors where you get shot at from both sides over walls is one that FE certainly brought back later. A particular Thracia chapter comes to mind, as does Fort Rigwald (the first of the Ephraim route battles), and so does Ryoma's Duel & Lunge Fun.

BinBla also does something like this on the map with the first Manakete boss. It looks less silly than here, though.

12 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Imagine telling someone that Kaga did something first concerning a remake of his own game.

You might remember that I was applying #KagaDidItFirst to Azura making Corrin jump off a cliff.

...a game in which one plays as Azura, the main villain of Fates, where this is her method of killing of Corrin, would be funny.

12 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

If you thought FE1 Maji was hard to use, hoo boy...

 

Then again, I really would like to see Arran gaming across both books. Come on. Dayners. Observo. Joticki even. Help me out here.

He wasn't hard to use, he just didn't have Darros's excellence and fell slowly behind as a result. He's lucky that Darros has found a ship to sail for Book 1.

I'll see how Arran can do - I can't make any endgame promises because Bantu has first dibs on the starshards, though.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I'm sure fe3 fans mald and seethe upon being told fe3 isn't canon and Kris is. Unlucky!

Canon is a bourgeois concept, anyway.

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