To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Thracia 776]

[ping]

FE4 Chapter 1: The Spirit Forest's Maiden

Genoa --> Marpha

Spoiler

Behold! A Dew kill!

Quan is a bit ahead of everybody else, so he leads the charge to relief Dew and Aideen. He has enough HP to survive three attacks, so I position him so that he can attacked from three tiles...

__

...but of course he gets an Adept proc on the third one without dodging any of the three (which, admittedly wasn't a particularly unlikely outcome). To avoid another mark of shame on his unit record, I reset the game before the next Fighter can attack him and have him stay back a little bit further.

__

Before the enemy phase(s), Eldigan and the Crossknights make short work of Elliot and his gang. It only took two rounds for them to kill (or ""kill"", in Elliot's case) them all, so I didn't need to worry overly much. Not sure how their hitrates are, so maybe there's a non-marginal chance that Elliot somehow gets to Evans, but I believe the Crossknights just hit all their attempts in this case.

: "Oof... Men, retreat! Mark my words, Eldigan! This isn't over!"

And Elliot suddenly remembers that he has the Pass skill and roughly 100 points of movement.

Next turn, Eldigan will retreat back to Nordion, although he follows the cosmic rules of finite movement in all Fire Emblem universes.

: "Elliot has fled? Very well. Leave him to lick his wounds. We're done here. Withdraw!"

__

Nothing too special on the next turn. It's a little sad to see Arden and Azel lagging behind so much.

Speaking of Azel... I initially wanted to only share my eugenics plans when both halves of a pair have joined our ranks. But since I'm currently mulling over a few options, I think I'll share the relevant pieces for that:

I went into the playthough with the intent of pairing up Finn and Bridget - they have very fast love growth (because he leaves soon after she joins, I believe), and Finn's skills seem like they would benefit her children. Plus, Shaky Jones wanted me to see some interactions between Finn and his kids, which this presumably would enable.

Plan B (the Ruben Appeasement Plan): Don't do that, leave both Finn and Bridget unpaired. I assume he wants that because Patty's replacement is godawful or something like that.

However, two pieces of information have brought a third idea to my mind: Pair Bridget with Azel. The information leading to that probably really silly idea:

• Getting a child of Azel to the endgame is the only way to see the Fire Emblem mentioned in Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War.
• The idea of a magic-based rogue is fun, and Azel provides Patty with Pursuit and a decent Mag stat (2 base and 55% growth, sayeth the main page).

An alternative pairing for Azel would be Lachesis, since both of her kids would also be able to make use of the Mag he provides. For Nanna, this should be obvious, but the Sword Cav guy whose name I don't remember right now would be able to do the Magic Swords thingie that I was planning for Azel!Patty otherwise. Until now, I had planned for Beowulf as Lachesis's husband, which I believe is another very standard choice.

So, er... thoughts? In any case, it's a bit annoying that I prioritised Lex over Azel in the Prologue, where our favourite Mage Boy would've had more opportunities than I gave him. Getting him to promotion, especially because he doesn't seem to be the greatest Arena fighter, seems like a bit of an ordeal, but that would be obligatory because it would allow him to pass down swords.

--

Aaaand back to fightin'.

Next turn, a couple of our cavs (including Sigurd) enter into the range of the enemies guarding Marpha, leading to the following reaction:

: "Oi, oi, oi! What do you lot think you're doing out there!? The rest of you, get out there and fight! Now! Don't let them touch the castle!"

__

With that, a stream of Fighters comes from the castle gates. The first one attacks Alec, but with him blocking the others from doing the same, they all suicide into Sigurd, one by one. That's one way to make ambush spawns palatable.

And from the Fighters already on the map, three (iirc) suicide into Finn. I'll book giving him Quan's Steel Lance under "success".

____

I'm making a silly mistake here by having Ayra kill the Commander of the Fighter squad here, since she is now in killing range of the remaining Fighter. Luckily, he doesn't get a good roll.

While this is going on, Midir actually breaks his Iron Bow on enemy phase. I was thinking I might just retire him for the map and save the money for repairing it, but looking at the weapon prices, the Killer Bow is ten times more expensive than the Iron Bow, so it might be worth keeping it around just as a cheaper attacking option. Midir (20500g) has enough money for both the repair (1000g) and the new bow (10000g), anyway.

Instead of attacking the boss, Sigurd had killed a generic enemy on player phase and Cantered to the castle, so Gandolf attacks him on enemy phase:

: "Oh, come on! First my woman flees, and now this? Damn my rotten luck!"

__

Sigurd misses two-rounding Gandolf by a single Str proc - or rather, even worse, he gets that Str proc after the first round of combat, but it't too late. Here, Midir's broken bow does come back to bite me - the only other 2-range character available would be Quan, who only has a 28% chance of hitting. I tried battle save abusing for it first, but then figured that it's better to send him to save the southwest village anyway. I don't think there's any time pressure on the map once that is done.

Meanwhile, Dew grabs the village, since he's in the area anyway and can gift the money to whoever might need it.

: "King Batur is as gentle as they come. Normally, at least, leading a war like this is the last thing he'd ever do. Mark my words: this is all the doing of Sandima, his sorcerous advisor. I can just feel it. Eking out a living here's grown tougher and tougher since the day that man arrived, and save for the youngest son, Jamke, both king and country are at his every whim. Please, I beg you... Save our country! Bring back the Verdane that once was!"

(5000 gold)

In case anybody still didn't catch that Jamke is recruitable.

It's worth noting, though, that despite Batur presumably having had a long peaceful reign, Verdane was still viewed as Barbarian Country in Grannvale. I feel that the underlying message ("Grannvale aren't just The Good Guys (tm)") gets muddied a bit by that impression being confirmed by not only Gandolf, but also DiMaggio and Gerrard seeing rape and plunder as a nice afternoon pastime, though.

____

Azel XP! With my newfound revelation that I probably do want him to be a dad, this is important.

On enemy phase (before Azel and Ayra's kills, actually), Sigurd gets the kill on Gandolf.

I'm... honestly not that happy about that, in hindsight. Since Sigurd needs to seize on the next turn anyway, I just as well could've tried to give the kill to somebody else nearby (say, Lex). I don't think Sigurd really needs the Skill Ring that Gandolf drops, nor the money from selling it. But I didn't keep a save between the start of the update and after killing Gandolf, I don't think I'll correct this.

Meanwhile, Quan (because he has higher movement than the unpromoted cavs) goes to save the last remains of the third village. I could reroll for an Adept proc to save an additional 500 gold, but as long as he hits both his attacks, he'll at least get to say hi to the survivors.

Now, once Sigurd seizes...

: "I need to go home, sir. I ask of you, please, pay me no mind."
: "Shaddup! Keep up your yappin' and you'll regret it!"
: "What's going on here? Let the girl go."
: "What's your problem!? The one's- ...Urgh! You're not that Grannvale paladin, are you?"
: "You understand the situation? Then be on your way. There are none I loathe more than your kind. This girl has given you her answer. Now, leave her be and get out of my sight."
: "Yeah... Yeah, got it... My bad, missy. I was just teasin', is all. Sorry, I'll be off now..."

Hello again, DiMaggio. Bye again, Dimaggio. Thank you for reinforcing the impression that Verdane actually is a country comprised of terrible people.

: "Are you alright?"
: "Y-yes... Thank you, Sir Sigurd."
: "Hm? You know of me?"
: "Yes. I met a woman named Aideen not long ago in this castle, and..."
: "She spoke of me."
: "She did. I know from the moment I laid eyes on you: You are in every way the man I had imagined..."
: "May I... ask for your name?"
: "...I'm sorry, but... ...I... I must go."
: "Wait! Please, I just want to talk for a while longer--"
: "...I am truly sorry. I am glad we could meet, even once..."

__

This girl has given you her answer, Sigurd.

: "Lord Sigurd, is it? What's the matter?"
: "Oh... You must be the town elder! That woman who ran off just now... Do you know who she is?"
: "Ahh, of course. That woman is called Deirdre. She is a priestess of the spirit forest."
: "Deirdre... She's beautiful..."
: "Ohoho, even a refined man like you can't resist being charmed by her ilk! Could it be love at first sight? Hoho..."
: "Sir, please. Don't tease me. And yet... I've never seen anybody so beautiful before. I... I need to see her again."
: "Alas, sir, for it cannot be so. The folk of the spirit forest staunchly refuse to partake in the world beyond their woods. Furthermore, that girl and members of her clan are forbidden from ever liasing with men. Village lore dictates that should this ever happen, calamity would befall the world. You have no choice, sir. Resign yourself of that girl."
: "What superstitious nonsense! That poor girl... Deirdre... we must meet again."

So how exactly does this work? Do all the men of Deirdre's clan hook up with women from outside the group? Even then, it seems like an unlikely arrangement to survive for centuries (I assume the clan goes back to the times of the Holy War, no?) when *every single* mother doesn't share their culture.

Anyway, seizing Marpha gets a reaction from Castle Verdane after ending your turn:

: "Father, this is absurd! Why do you still refuse to listen to me? My brothers already have fallen, and it's only a matter of time before they come for the capital as well. The Grannvale commander, Sir Sigurd, is a good man. Please, end the war while you still can!"
: "I... allowed Gandolf's raid only because I'd been told that Grannvale would surely come to invade us first. Never did I intend for a war like this."
: "It was that sorceror, Sandima, who told you tht, wasn't it? You, Kinbaith, and Gandolf trusted him too readily. You've all been deceived!"

: "Your duty as prince is to lead your men into the fray. Dawdling in a place like this would be deeply troublesome of you."
: "Argh! Damn you, Sandima!"
: "That's enough, Jamke. Listen to Sandima. Go. Lead your men into the fray."
: "Father! ...Very well. If you won't change your mind, even now, then... I'll see this through as well. But be warned. Should I return victorious, Sandima, I'll allow you to live no longer!"

: "Sandima... Perhaps, for all this time, you may not have been entirely forthright with me. You did assure me that Grannvale hungers to claim our land, and yet..."
: "Feh... And just what are you saying now? To think, I believed that you Verdanites would be of use... You truly are naught but savages. You are worthless. Completely and utterly worthless! And from now on, your army is mine to command!"
: "What?! No, stay back! Back, I- -Guhh..."

Alas, poor Batur. I hardly knew ye.

Honestly, Sandima would look a bit more moustach-twirly if this regicide was promted by Jamke's threat before. "Well, if your son is going to try and kill me, I'm forced to assume direct control immediately. Nothing personel, kid." But unfortunately, that never happens...:

: "They ned only know that the king has fallen ill."
: "Hrm, I see... And what of the situation here? Does the plan progress?"
: "My sincerest apologies, Your Excellency. That Grannvalian... Sigurd, or something, has proven to be an unexpected obstacle to the invasion."
: "Hm... And what of the search for the Loptyrian scion? Have you found Sigyn's daughter?"
: "Er... No, not yet..."
: "Imbecile! After all of the pains I have gone to, to locate the boy... The son of Sigyn is still in Belhalla, but he's worthless without the female. Listen well. Sigyn was an heir of Prince Maira, brother of an emperor of the old Loptyr Empire. Sigyn alone in this era inherited the sacred blood of the dark lord. That woman broke the commandment that Maira placed upon his heirs and bore two children. Do you know what this means?"
: "Yes, Your Eminence. When the blood of the two heirs intersects, the second coming of the dark lord, Loptyr, will be upon us."
: "Precisely and so too shall we, descendants of the Loptyr Empire, return to this world. You know as well as I, Sandima, how heavily our fates depend upon the resurrection of the dark lord. You know well our order's centuries of exile, hidden deep within the Yied Desert. You know well the abuses... The famines... How we were sustained only by dreaming of the day when the Empire will rise again. And at long last, that day is upon us."
: "Understood, Your Eminence. If I must surrender my life to ensure that the plan is realized, I will do it gladly!"

"As you know, Sandima, *lays down the Evil Plan in great detail*"

And with that, Sandima takes the fort and spawns a bunch of Hunters in front of it.

But despite Manfroy expositioning so thoroughly, and me knowing who the two heirs of Maira are (and, I mean, it would've been pretty clear that Deirdre is one of them, I think) - there's still some details that I don't understand. In particular, how Naga's bloodline was intermingled with Loptyr's (slight spoiler, I guess, since we haven't seen Deirdre's stat screen yet).

My first thought was that, if people knew that Maira's bloodline was dangerous - why preserve it at all? Like, instead of setting up an easily broken one-child rule, why not prevent Maira, or his child(ren), from continuing the Loptyr bloodline alltogether? Or is that because preserving Naga's bloodline was considered too important? But assuming that it's important to counter Loptyr's, wouldn't "both go extinct" be preferable to "both continue on"?

TL;DR: I is confused. And curious if this will become more clear later on.

But that's that. This was a shorter stretch of gameplay than the previous update, but I think I'll keep to a "one castle per update" rule as long as that seems sensible.

Since I won't have any more time pressure on me once the village is saved, I'm tempted to just spam End Turn and let Jamke and his group come to me, assuming that he moves past the chokepoint. But even if he doesn't, I can just lean back, do Arena stuff, and get all the conversations out of the way. We'll see. To close this post, I'll show Jamke and Sandima, since they did appear on the map:

[HP 90% | Str 50% | Mag -- | Skl 10% | Spd 30% | Lck 40% | Def 30% | Res 5%]
Skills: Pursuit, Adept, Accost
Weapon Level: Bows (A)

Jamke, coming with all the follow-up attack skills you'd ever want. With one half-exception: Pursuit is connected to his class and not a "personal skill", so Jamke won't pass it down to his kids, which is, I think, why people consider Midir to be a better husband for Aideen.

Stat-wise, he seems pretty good. Since he comes with his Killer Bow, which has +30 hit and +5 AS compared to Midir's Iron Bow, on top of the higher damage and innate Critical skill... his base Skl and Spd should last him pretty well, so it's a good thing that he is focussing his growths on HP and Str. Considering that he doesn't even have Holy Blood, his growths look straight up amazing, honestly. But, of course, he is part of the unfortunate Pedestrian Club, so it's easy to see that the "meta" play is to throw his Killer Bow over to Midir and probably not even bother having Jamke leave the castle ever again, once Ch.2 starts.

And here is Sandima, the first long-range magic user we encounter, and he's looking mighty threatening. I remember that Deidre is going to be really useful against him, and that's good, since Sandima two-shots everybody we have with his Fenrir (apart from a one-shot vs. Dew, of course), and when he swaps to Jormungand, he'll even gain another +20 hit and +6 Atk.

If he gets to him, Sigurd isn't too far off of two-rounding Sandima (31 Atk leaves him at 4 HP), so maybe it's still possible to bait Sandima to attack a weaker target and bumrush him with Sigurd plus somebody to chip (or finish) Sandima), but I would assume that that path would be more difficult to go consistently.

 

The Team:

	  Lv.	  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res  Funds  XP
Sigurd	  13.73*  43  17   0  17  16  10  12   3  2280	 +349
Quan	  9.25*   39  19   0  12  12   7  11   3  23190  +345
Noish	  6.07	  34  12   0   9  10   4   9   0  5500   +163
Alec	  4.32	  34  11   0  10  10   5   9   0  4500   +183

Lex	  9.64	  38  14   0  11  12   9  14   0  18500  +368
Finn	  6.00	  35  12   0  10  13   9   9   0  13990  +432
Midir	  7.51	  36   9   0   8  10   5   8   1  20500  +303
Arden	  5.88	  37  14   0   6   4   3  14   0  12310  +202

Ayra	  5.66	  33  11   0  17  18   3   7   1  3000   +166
Dew	  3.48	  29   5   0   8  15  12   1   0  23000  +248
Azel	  3.88	  31   1  11   7  11   2   2   7  10500  +153
Ethlyn	  6.32	  32   6   8  12  14   8   5   6  10000  +292

Aideen	  4.60	  29   1  13   8   9  12   1  10  5000   +160

 

 

On 2/23/2024 at 10:54 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

...some IRL factoids on the Roman Colosseum.😛

Haha, appreciated!

On 2/23/2024 at 10:54 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was also thinking of dynastic China. I know at least one or two dynasties tried addressing the northern barbaric border by settling soldiers and their families in the less-than-lovable Central Eurasian landscape and attempting to farm it. Though these efforts for self-sufficiency/minimizing border upkeep costs fell short in practice.

I don't see a Grannvalian attempt to "colonise" Verdane, as such, but generally speaking, I can imagine that the dynamic between Rome, China, and Grannvale with their respective neighbors might have similar, "proto-racist" vibes. (I know racism in a narrow sense is a rather modern concept, but "Romans/Chinese/Grannvalians are just better than the barbarians" still goes into that direction from "standard" xenophobia)

--

Thanks for the comments about my thoughts on eugenics in the previous three posts, too. Still unsure about what exactly I want to do, so I welcome anybody weighing in further even though I think I can guess what Ruben thinks of the matter.

Edited February 26 by ping

[RPGuy96]

16 minutes ago, ping said:

Plan B (the Ruben Appeasement Plan): Don't do that, leave both Finn and Bridget unpaired. I assume he wants that because Patty's replacement is godawful or something like that.

Patty's sub is fine, but Faval's sub is lame.  It's not a big deal since it's a foot archer, but he's a fun foot archer whenever he actually gets an opportunity to shoot someone.  I think Ruben wants to leave Finn unpaired so he doesn't give up his weapons to his kid, rather than caring about having Bridget unpaired.  Faval is going to be the same no matter his father, while Patty is always going to be a little combat challenged.  She wants Pursuit and ideally some other benefit if you want her to fight.  Azel's fine since he gives Pursuit and magic swords are fun on a thief.

23 minutes ago, ping said:

An alternative pairing for Azel would be Lachesis, since both of her kids would also be able to make use of the Mag he provides. For Nanna, this should be obvious, but the Sword Cav guy whose name I don't remember right now would be able to do the Magic Swords thingie that I was planning for Azel!Patty otherwise. Until now, I had planned for Beowulf as Lachesis's husband, which I believe is another very standard choice.

I *think* I've done Azel x Lachesis before, and it was...fine?  Diarmat wants Pursuit, so that's good, and magic swords for him are solid, but he's going to have okay combat in a gen where there's a lot of overpowered combat no matter what you do.  Nanna appreciates a magic father but she's mostly a staffbot for your mounts anyway.

Beowulf is indeed standard, since he passes down Pursuit and swords to Diarmat.  Magic swords from Azel are probably more fun.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, ping said:

...but of course he gets an Adept proc on the third one without dodging any of the three

First it was crits in the older games, now it's this.😛

1 hour ago, ping said:

While this is going on, Midir actually breaks his Iron Bow on enemy phase. I was thinking I might just retire him for the map and save the money for repairing it, but looking at the weapon prices, the Killer Bow is ten times more expensive than the Iron Bow, so it might be worth keeping it around just as a cheaper attacking option. Midir (20500g) has enough money for both the repair (1000g) and the new bow (10000g), anyway.

This isn't Gaiden. Everyone has enough inventory room for a "power weapon" and an "economy weapon", if you want to be egalitarian and distribute your good stuff through the ranks instead of letting a few hog it all.

1 hour ago, ping said:

It's a little sad to see Arden and Azel lagging behind so much.

Axel can be thought of as a low-key diamond in the rough in Gen 1. Heavy starting weapon, lack of a horse, but real good Mag & Spd growths in a game where most enemy Res values are pretty low. With promotion, the horse fixes his biggest problem, and better tomes gradually show up. So he can get good. ...Whether or not to bother when *ahem* impermanence, is an open question.

1 hour ago, ping said:

Jamke, coming with all the follow-up attack skills you'd ever want. With one half-exception: Pursuit is connected to his class and not a "personal skill", so Jamke won't pass it down to his kids, which is, I think, why people consider Midir to be a better husband for Aideen.

Also, the Brave effect in Genealogy counts as 100%-activation Adept procs. Meaning Midson could consistently land 4 hits per attack, while Jamson would be only 2 without Accost activating or that most obscure of rings.

1 hour ago, ping said:

he'll at least get to say hi to the survivors.

Maybe he'll find some culture ruins.😜

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, ping said:

Haha, appreciated!

I don't see a Grannvalian attempt to "colonise" Verdane, as such, but generally speaking, I can imagine that the dynamic between Rome, China, and Grannvale with their respective neighbors might have similar, "proto-racist" vibes. (I know racism in a narrow sense is a rather modern concept, but "Romans/Chinese/Grannvalians are just better than the barbarians" still goes into that direction from "standard" xenophobia)

I don't think I really buy this whole "racism is a modern concept" guff the academics are throwing around nowadays. I don't think humans have changed so phenomenally so as to suddenly just become racist at one point whereas before everything was just dandy on the racism front. It's form might have changed, and access to foreign peoples weren't as easy as they are now, but people of the past certainly had in-groups and out-groups with discrimination against the out-groups.

[Saint Rubenio]

2 hours ago, ping said:

Plan B (the Ruben Appeasement Plan): Don't do that, leave both Finn and Bridget unpaired. I assume he wants that because Patty's replacement is godawful or something like that.

Not particularly. @RPGuy96's guess was correct - Finn just gives up his stuff and gets shackled with a shitty spear if you marry him to someone. Finn is cooler than any children, so he should keep his stuff. Plus, him keeping his stuff is C A N O N !

2 hours ago, ping said:

However, two pieces of information have brought a third idea to my mind: Pair Bridget with Azel. The information leading to that probably really silly idea:

• Getting a child of Azel to the endgame is the only way to see the Fire Emblem mentioned in Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War.
• The idea of a magic-based rogue is fun, and Azel provides Patty with Pursuit and a decent Mag stat (2 base and 55% growth, sayeth the main page).

An alternative pairing for Azel would be Lachesis, since both of her kids would also be able to make use of the Mag he provides. For Nanna, this should be obvious, but the Sword Cav guy whose name I don't remember right now would be able to do the Magic Swords thingie that I was planning for Azel!Patty otherwise. Until now, I had planned for Beowulf as Lachesis's husband, which I believe is another very standard choice.

So, er... thoughts? In any case, it's a bit annoying that I prioritised Lex over Azel in the Prologue, where our favourite Mage Boy would've had more opportunities than I gave him. Getting him to promotion, especially because he doesn't seem to be the greatest Arena fighter, seems like a bit of an ordeal, but that would be obligatory because it would allow him to pass down swords.

This works perfectly fine for me!

2 hours ago, ping said:

It's worth noting, though, that despite Batur presumably having had a long peaceful reign, Verdane was still viewed as Barbarian Country in Grannvale. I feel that the underlying message ("Grannvale aren't just The Good Guys (tm)") gets muddied a bit by that impression being confirmed by not only Gandolf, but also DiMaggio and Gerrard seeing rape and plunder as a nice afternoon pastime, though.

They really needed to have more "normal" characters than just the puppet king and the recruitable.

2 hours ago, ping said:

__

This girl has given you her answer, Sigurd.

It is rather wonderful how he scares off a pervert and proceeds to act more or less the same, but since he's handsome, the protagonist and ✨a noble✨ the game says it's cool and romantic. And then she has to flee into the fucking wilderness lmao. Imagine if she got mauled by a bear or something while running from the pervert convention. Sigurd saves the world by being a jackass!

2 hours ago, ping said:

Alas, poor Batur. I hardly knew ye.

Honestly, Sandima would look a bit more moustach-twirly if this regicide was promted by Jamke's threat before. "Well, if your son is going to try and kill me, I'm forced to assume direct control immediately. Nothing personel, kid." But unfortunately, that never happens...:

RIP Pineapple Head man. He had the funniest portrait in the game.

2 hours ago, ping said:

But despite Manfroy expositioning so thoroughly, and me knowing who the two heirs of Maira are (and, I mean, it would've been pretty clear that Deirdre is one of them, I think) - there's still some details that I don't understand. In particular, how Naga's bloodline was intermingled with Loptyr's (slight spoiler, I guess, since we haven't seen Deirdre's stat screen yet).

My first thought was that, if people knew that Maira's bloodline was dangerous - why preserve it at all? Like, instead of setting up an easily broken one-child rule, why not prevent Maira, or his child(ren), from continuing the Loptyr bloodline alltogether? Or is that because preserving Naga's bloodline was considered too important? But assuming that it's important to counter Loptyr's, wouldn't "both go extinct" be preferable to "both continue on"?

TL;DR: I is confused. And curious if this will become more clear later on.

The answer is simple: Remember that Kaga is a big fan of divine right. In his mind, the idea of letting a divinely blessed royal bloodline die is simply unconscionable.

[BrightBow]

4 hours ago, ping said:

But despite Manfroy expositioning so thoroughly, and me knowing who the two heirs of Maira are (and, I mean, it would've been pretty clear that Deirdre is one of them, I think) - there's still some details that I don't understand. In particular, how Naga's bloodline was intermingled with Loptyr's (slight spoiler, I guess, since we haven't seen Deirdre's stat screen yet).

Deidre's father is Prince Kurth. Though she doesn't know about it.
 

4 hours ago, ping said:

My first thought was that, if people knew that Maira's bloodline was dangerous - why preserve it at all? Like, instead of setting up an easily broken one-child rule, why not prevent Maira, or his child(ren), from continuing the Loptyr bloodline alltogether? Or is that because preserving Naga's bloodline was considered too important? But assuming that it's important to counter Loptyr's, wouldn't "both go extinct" be preferable to "both continue on"?

There is no one-child rule and they are not trying to preserve the bloodline. They are not supposed to procreate at all.
So they are in fact trying to die out.

Historically speaking condoms have done a better job preventing unwanted pregnancies than telling people they go to hell if they have sex. So it makes perfect sense to me that the dogma has yet to entirely wipe out the line. 
Keep in mind the holy war was only like a little over 100 years ago. So it really wouldn't take that many rule breakers.

Not to mention, the dogma already came close to succeeding. Considering Sigyn really was the only member of the bloodline until she gave birth on two separate occasions.
 

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The answer is simple: Remember that Kaga is a big fan of divine right. In his mind, the idea of letting a divinely blessed royal bloodline die is simply unconscionable.

Isn't that exactly what happens in Book 2? With Nyna the Akaneian bloodline is gone.

And Marth is a descendant of Anri, who was a filthy commoner. So he is not much of a replacement in the eyes of a proper royalist.

Edited February 25 by BrightBow

[Saint Rubenio]

7 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

There is no one-child rule and they are not trying to preserve the bloodline. They are not supposed to procreate at all.
So they are in fact trying to die out.

Historically speaking condoms have done a better job preventing unwanted pregnancies than telling people they go to hell if they have sex. So it makes perfect sense to me that the dogma has yet to entirely wipe out the line. 
Keep in mind the holy war was only like a little over 100 years ago. So it really wouldn't take that many rule breakers.

Not to mention, the dogma already came close to succeeding. Considering Sigyn really was the only member of the bloodline until she gave birth on two separate occasions.

Ah, I see. That does clear things up, thanks.

See maybe what they should've done is employ the ol' guillotine--

[BrightBow]

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ah, I see. That does clear things up, thanks.

See maybe what they should've done is employ the ol' guillotine--

If they didn't hide out in the depths of savage land, I imagine that they would have fallen pray to mob justice at some point.
Although the fact that Maira was a hero could also have helped.

[ping]

4 hours ago, RPGuy96 said:

I think Ruben wants to leave Finn unpaired so he doesn't give up his weapons to his kid, rather than caring about having Bridget unpaired.

No, Ruben wants both, evil beardman that h--

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Not particularly. @RPGuy96's guess was correct - Finn just gives up his stuff and gets shackled with a shitty spear if you marry him to someone. Finn is cooler than any children, so he should keep his stuff. Plus, him keeping his stuff is C A N O N !

--oh. Well, in my defense, I'm pretty sure you asked for several pairs of substitutes at some point, Bridget's not-children being one of them.

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

This works perfectly fine for me!

You can't quote two Azel pairings and then say "this one"!

But I think I'm going to go with Bridget/Azel and keep the 08/15 Lachesis/Beowulf as planned, unless somebody has some particularly interesting suggestion for her. Patty joining with Pursuit and a Magic Sword (I can't quite get over these being C rank, by the way) honestly sounds pretty cool. I just finished playing the last part of Ch.1 and the lack of time pressure did allow Azel to catch up in levels, too:

(and also to kill the boss )

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

First it was crits in the older games, now it's this.😛

I understand more and more why Bronze weapons are considered to be Good, Actually in Fates. (although, really, playing New Mystery gave plenty of practical lectures on that already)

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Axel can be thought of as a low-key diamond in the rough in Gen 1. Heavy starting weapon, lack of a horse, but real good Mag & Spd growths in a game where most enemy Res values are pretty low. With promotion, the horse fixes his biggest problem, and better tomes gradually show up. So he can get good. ...Whether or not to bother when *ahem* impermanence, is an open question.

Yeah, I compared him to Nino earlier for that reason. Well, specifically in their role as Mage With Potential, since they're quite different otherwise, from joining time to promotion gains.

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Maybe he'll find some culture ruins.😜

If (or when - Shoshone good) I can choose, I'll take a well-timed pop ruin over culture any day

(I tend to default to Scout->Monument->Shrine these days, so I'm not relying on a ruin to open Tradition reasonably early)

2 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It is rather wonderful how he scares off a pervert and proceeds to act more or less the same, but since he's handsome, the protagonist and ✨a noble✨ the game says it's cool and romantic. And then she has to flee into the fucking wilderness lmao. Imagine if she got mauled by a bear or something while running from the pervert convention. Sigurd saves the world by being a jackass!

It's very much that meme comic (an office lady being appreciative of a compliment vs. calling HR, depending on the looks of the man making it), isn't it?

42 minutes ago, BrightBow said:

Deidre's father is Prince Kurth. Though she doesn't know about it.

--

There is no one-child rule and they are not trying to preserve the bloodline. They are not supposed to procreate at all.
So they are in fact trying to die out.

Historically speaking condoms have done a better job preventing unwanted pregnancies than telling people they go to hell if they have sex. So it makes perfect sense to me that the dogma has yet to entirely wipe out the line. 
Keep in mind the holy war was only like a little over 100 years ago. So it really wouldn't take that many rule breakers.

Not to mention, the dogma already came close to succeeding. Considering Sigyn really was the only member of the bloodline until she gave birth on two separate occasions.
 

OK, I completely forgot about Kurth being her father. It still doesn't ring a bell, actually, so maybe I didn't pay enough attention when I was watching an FE4 LP years ago.

Thanks for the clarification - like in Akaneia, it's messing with my head a little that Kaga has the big, earth-shattering conflict take place a mere century before the start of the narration, and not "thousands of years ago", as is the standard in fantasy. Despite having read the timeline at the start of the game, and it not having any negative dates, it still stuck in my head that surely, the Holy War started in year 0.

But with the time span being one century instead of seven, that does make a lot more sense. I was assuming that one-child rule because that would have allowed the bloodline to continue without there being two heirs at the same time, but that sort of rationalisation really isn't needed for that much shorter timeframe.

 

[RPGuy96]

55 minutes ago, ping said:

But I think I'm going to go with Bridget/Azel and keep the 08/15 Lachesis/Beowulf as planned

I think your other options are worse than Beowulf.  Finn loses his lances even though Diarmat doesn't get them; Alec gives worse growths; Midir can't pass down swords; all the other physical fathers give decent enough stats but no Pursuit.  Azel's spoken for, Claude does nothing, and Levin would be wasted. I'm a little curious how Lex would work out - Diarmat would be really tanky, but would lack Pursuit and have bad speed anyway.  But it's definitely worse than Beowulf and Lex makes a more interesting partner for other pairings anyway.

[Saint Rubenio]

56 minutes ago, ping said:

Well, in my defense, I'm pretty sure you asked for several pairs of substitutes at some point, Bridget's not-children being one of them.

Well, yes. If it were me I'd just do full subs. But you're not me, at least last I checked.

57 minutes ago, ping said:

You can't quote two Azel pairings and then say "this one"!

I meant the "Bridget marries someone who isn't Finn and Finn gets to keep his stuff", I'm not particularly concerned with Azel's love life. If I must, however, I do enjoy the idea of a meme magical thief.

3 minutes ago, RPGuy96 said:

I think your other options are worse than Beowulf.  Finn loses his lances even though Diarmat doesn't get them; Alec gives worse growths; Midir can't pass down swords; all the other physical fathers give decent enough stats but no Pursuit.  Azel's spoken for, Claude does nothing, and Levin would be wasted. I'm a little curious how Lex would work out - Diarmat would be really tanky, but would lack Pursuit and have bad speed anyway.  But it's definitely worse than Beowulf and Lex makes a more interesting partner for other pairings anyway.

I hadn't even thought about it that deeply, but... Yeah, if Finn's kid doesn't use lances the stuff is just straight up lost lol. I know it's sprinkled throughout the game if it's lost in inheritance, but honestly, better to just let Finn keep his goodies lol

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I hadn't even thought about it that deeply, but... Yeah, if Finn's kid doesn't use lances

Aka literally all of the possibilities.

[Saint Rubenio]

18 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Aka literally all of the possibilities.

Yeah Ping's like "boohoo Ruben's bullying me into doing suboptimal things" when I was literally recommending the meta, the optimal, the ltc pro route, the... you get the point! I expect no less than an apology video opening on a deep sigh.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah Ping's like "boohoo Ruben's bullying me into doing suboptimal things" when I was literally recommending the meta, the optimal, the ltc pro route, the... you get the point! I expect no less than an apology video opening on a deep sigh.

-Except for the part where you tell him to let Finn keep the Brave Lance. Whereas the meta would be to sell it to Erinys.😜

...With Lex, it feels like his lack of inheritance b/c no kid can use axes at base, is a siring balancer, along with his lack of Pursuit. Flaws that counterbalance his high Def growth (which being holy blood-induced makes it more effective for the kid who he is the secondary parent of than were it all normal growth) and Paragon.

With Finn... yes he has Pursuit, and rigging Miracle can be very strong. But he doesn't feel like he has enough strengths to compensate for his lack of weapon inheritance capabilities. Seems like a second-rate father regardless of children. And there is the unique situation only Finn has, where him losing his weapons might sting.

[ping]

59 minutes ago, RPGuy96 said:

I think your other options are worse than Beowulf.  Finn loses his lances even though Diarmat doesn't get them; Alec gives worse growths; Midir can't pass down swords; all the other physical fathers give decent enough stats but no Pursuit.  Azel's spoken for, Claude does nothing, and Levin would be wasted. I'm a little curious how Lex would work out - Diarmat would be really tanky, but would lack Pursuit and have bad speed anyway.  But it's definitely worse than Beowulf and Lex makes a more interesting partner for other pairings anyway.

Yeah, I took a glance at Alec vs. Beowulf, since Alec's actually been relatively not-terrible after grabbing Sigurd's Steel Sword and a few good level-ups. But unless I grow to hate proc skills so much that I count Beo's Accost as a negative, Alec's still just him with slightly worse growths, minus a love-and-stats convo for Lachesis, and minus Accost.

55 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I hadn't even thought about it that deeply, but... Yeah, if Finn's kid doesn't use lances the stuff is just straight up lost lol. I know it's sprinkled throughout the game if it's lost in inheritance, but honestly, better to just let Finn keep his goodies lol

Wait, so if Finn marries, he doesn't just keep all the lances that his kid won't be able to use? That's an odd decision, for sure.

27 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah Ping's like "boohoo Ruben's bullying me into doing suboptimal things" when I was literally recommending the meta, the optimal, the ltc pro route, the... you get the point! I expect no less than an apology video opening on a deep sigh.

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-Except for the part where you tell him to let Finn keep the Brave Lance. Whereas the meta would be to sell it to Erinys.😜

I was going to say. Fee can't even inherit the Silver Lance, so surely, the optimal, the ltc pro route would've been to give her/Erinys the Brave Lance and the Silver Lance to Finn.

And Ruben, you suggested Triple Soldiers for Gaiden. It takes more than this to balance that out.

Edited February 25 by ping

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, BrightBow said:

Deidre's father is Prince Kurth. Though she doesn't know about it.
 

There is no one-child rule and they are not trying to preserve the bloodline. They are not supposed to procreate at all.
So they are in fact trying to die out.

Historically speaking condoms have done a better job preventing unwanted pregnancies than telling people they go to hell if they have sex. So it makes perfect sense to me that the dogma has yet to entirely wipe out the line. 
Keep in mind the holy war was only like a little over 100 years ago. So it really wouldn't take that many rule breakers.

Not to mention, the dogma already came close to succeeding. Considering Sigyn really was the only member of the bloodline until she gave birth on two separate occasions.
 

Isn't that exactly what happens in Book 2? With Nyna the Akaneian bloodline is gone.

And Marth is a descendant of Anri, who was a filthy commoner. So he is not much of a replacement in the eyes of a proper royalist.

The Lopt empire fell a hundred years ago, but Maria's rebellion was a separate event that was over two hundred years ago. Which does stretch belief a little that the bloodline could be kept in tact while also not spreading outwards to everyone in the area. Though, I suppose we do see holy blood naturally fade too.

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-Except for the part where you tell him to let Finn keep the Brave Lance. Whereas the meta would be to sell it to Erinys.😜

 

Details shmetails.

1 hour ago, ping said:

And Ruben, you suggested Triple Soldiers for Gaiden. It takes more than this to balance that out.

It was a goddamned joke

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

In case it's of any interest, I did a thread a couple years ago rating every possible pairing. If you want the brief rundown of what are, in my opinion, the "best pairings":

Spoiler

Edain - Midir

Ayra - Chulainn

Lachesis - Beowulf

Silvia - Claud

Erinys - Lewyn

Tiltyu - Azelle

Brigid - Jamke

Mind you, these aren't my favorite pairings, and I'm not suggesting going for all of them. Just the ones I assessed to be at the ideal intersection of efficiency and performance.

13 hours ago, RPGuy96 said:

Patty's sub is fine, but Faval's sub is lame.

Agreed. Daisy having Miracle is actually really cool, as it lets her get more Arena wins than most versions of Patty. And if you give Gold after every Arena win, bam, that's 70 EXP right there. But Assaelo... yeah, you can stop after the third letter.

13 hours ago, RPGuy96 said:

Beowulf is indeed standard, since he passes down Pursuit and swords to Diarmat.  Magic swords from Azel are probably more fun.

I did this one, and thought having "pseudo Mage Knight Diarmuid" was a fun gimmick. He'll do worse in the Arena, for the asinine reason that magic swords don't work there. But pass him a 50 kill Brave Sword, and he can just cleave through anyone.

The tempting "meme pairing" is Lachesis x Claud, so Nanna can use Warp, Physic, and Status Staves. Plus Diarmuid gets boosted Res, and... no Pursuit! So not worth it.

13 hours ago, ping said:

but also DiMaggio and Gerrard seeing rape and plunder as a nice afternoon pastime, though.

I will forever be disappointed if the inevitable FE4 remake has voice acting, but they don't get John DiMaggio to voice this throwaway boss. With blackjack! And hookers!

6 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Except for the part where you tell him to let Finn keep the Brave Lance. Whereas the meta would be to sell it to Erinys.😜

I cannot stress enough how great having the Brave Lance in chapters 4, 5, and 6 is. It's probably the third- or fourth-best weapon in the game, absolutely revolutionizing the combat ability of whoever is using it. Erinys is the most obvious, but a promoted Alec or Naiose can make excellent use of it as well. Hell, it's one of promoted Arden's best options, if you're a masochist. Obviously it should end up with Erinys, so Fee brings it in the second generation.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

The Lopt empire fell a hundred years ago, but Maria's rebellion was a separate event that was over two hundred years ago. Which does stretch belief a little that the bloodline could be kept in tact while also not spreading outwards to everyone in the area. Though, I suppose we do see holy blood naturally fade too.

When she said "no protesting", she absolutely meant it.

There were no survivors.

6 hours ago, ping said:

I was going to say. Fee can't even inherit the Silver Lance, so surely, the optimal, the ltc pro route would've been to give her/Erinys the Brave Lance and the Silver Lance to Finn.

There are actually two playable Silver Lances in the game, both obtainable by chapter 3. Finn can take one, but only if promoted, while Quan can take one regardless. Best play is probably Finn gets one (if promoted), while the other stays in Gen I (for use by Erinys, promoted Arden, or promoted Lachesis). Although it cannot be inherited, it can be bought back in chapter 9. Which is the very chapter you would be getting Altenna, anyway.

One more thing - I do like Quan passing down his Javelin. So that Altenna will attack at range, and you can bait her in without her saying "it's Gae Bolgin' time!". But you only get two Javelins in Gen I, so it's a tough call between Finn keeping the other one, or your native Lance users getting to use it in chapters 4 and 5, with Fee inheriting it in 6.

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

When she said "no protesting", she absolutely meant it.

There were no survivors.

I'm afraid that reference is going over my head.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm afraid that reference is going over my head.

You referred to Maria's rebellion. I never knew the plucky Princess of Macedon had it in her!

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

You referred to Maria's rebellion. I never knew the plucky Princess of Macedon had it in her!

She was secretly the one behind Lykke's poorly explained actions!

[ping]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

In case it's of any interest, I did a thread a couple years ago rating every possible pairing. If you want the brief rundown of what are, in my opinion, the "best pairings":

Interesting for sure. I'll read along piecemeal as I recruit the potential mothers.

I was a bit surprised that Lex doesn't make an appearance in your "best pairings" list. I was given the impression that he tends to be excellent for any physical kid, but I can see that lack of Pursuit and inheritable weapons are strikes against him.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I will forever be disappointed if the inevitable FE4 remake has voice acting, but they don't get John DiMaggio to voice this throwaway boss. With blackjack! And hookers!

I wonder if the name DiMaggio stands out to Japanese speakers at all. It's pretty jarring to me, since I think it's the only name in the game that's so obviously and unmistakably Italian. Well, the only person's name. "Genoa" is pretty obvious, too, although that word still sounds less stereotypically Italian to my ears.

9 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

It was a goddamned joke

I don't believe you. This is the internet, where everybody is always 100% genuine about everything they say. If I can't trust your sadistic unit recommendations, then can I trust anything you write? Do you secretly hate Arthur, Hero of Justice? Are you clean-shaven!?

[RPGuy96]

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I cannot stress enough how great having the Brave Lance in chapters 4, 5, and 6 is. It's probably the third- or fourth-best weapon in the game, absolutely revolutionizing the combat ability of whoever is using it. Erinys is the most obvious, but a promoted Alec or Naiose can make excellent use of it as well. Hell, it's one of promoted Arden's best options, if you're a masochist. Obviously it should end up with Erinys, so Fee brings it in the second generation.

I think a first-time player would generally leave the Brave Lance on Finn, and that feels more narratively correct.   Kaga doesn't lock it to Finn like in Thracia so ping is free to do what he wants with it, but Quan gives it to Finn not to Erin or the Chalphy bros.

Obviously you're right about it being an optimal Erin -> Fee weapon, and I do really like one-shotting annoying mages in Chs 4 and 5 with Erin.

And someday I'm going to play with intense favoritism for the lackluster mounts you get - rather than either doing stuff with overpowered mounts or waiting for the infantry to catch up - and then the Christmas Cavs will get the Brave Lance after Finn departs.

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The tempting "meme pairing" is Lachesis x Claud, so Nanna can use Warp, Physic, and Status Staves. Plus Diarmuid gets boosted Res, and... no Pursuit! So not worth it.

I didn't actually think about Nanna's inheritance but that is pretty cool.  I never remember to use status staves (except for the part ping is writing up now where the game tries to teach you to use them), but they'd be better on her than the foot healers for sure.  Diarmuid sure would suck though.

5 hours ago, ping said:

I was a bit surprised that Lex doesn't make an appearance in your "best pairings" list. I was given the impression that he tends to be excellent for any physical kid, but I can see that lack of Pursuit and inheritable weapons are strikes against him.

Lex's def growth and Paragon are strong advantages, but most kids want Pursuit and there's one fixed kid in particular who always wants the Pursuit Band to get out of his terrible starting class.  So it's tricky to promise it to one of Lex's kids to make up that shortcoming.  He's a good husband, but Pursuit really is an issue so he's rarely the best husband (except maybe for Ayra).

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

5 hours ago, ping said:

I was a bit surprised that Lex doesn't make an appearance in your "best pairings" list. I was given the impression that he tends to be excellent for any physical kid, but I can see that lack of Pursuit and inheritable weapons are strikes against him.

Lex is an interesting spot, where he's not the "best" partner for any potential mother, but he's also among the better picks for any of them. The Paragon skill is one of the best in the game, while the Defense boost from Neir holy blood is very welcome. That's why I gave him an A rank for every mother, except Edain and Lachesis (where he gets a B).

Note, too, that I was considering them based on "ranked run" considerations. Ergo, if a pairing demands a bunch of excess turns, I consider it less viable. But if you don't care about turncount, then that aspect may not matter. Like, you could definitely argue that Lewyn!Arthur is better than Azelle!Arthur. But I ranked Azelle as a better partner to Tailtiu, because it's a much easier pairing to set up (and it grants her an HP boost).

4 minutes ago, RPGuy96 said:

Lex's def growth and Paragon are strong advantages, but most kids want Pursuit and there's one fixed kid in particular who always wants the Pursuit Band to get out of his terrible starting class.  So it's tricky to promise it to one of Lex's kids to make up that shortcoming.  He's a good husband, but Pursuit really is an issue so he's rarely the best husband (except maybe for Ayra).

Yeah, this is broadly catching what I was thinking. The reason I prefer Chulainn > Lex with Ayra is moreso one of convenience, as the two swordfighters are easier to keep adjacent. Also, Chulainn passing Swords down really helps Scathach. Of course, Paragon and Neir blood are great on both kids. I also really like Dew, as Bargain allows for a "free" Paragon Band, while Sol can bolster their survivability.

My favorite Lex pairing, in a ranked context, might actually be with Silvia. Aa weird as it sounds, the two kids don't really care about Pursuit. They're also very difficult to train, so Paragon makes them have a much easier road to level 30 (and helps Coirpre promote in the first place). The defense boost might be counter-intuitive with Miracle, but I think it provides flexibility (i.e. what was a 2HKO may instead put them into Miracle range). Not passing any Staves down to Coirpre is a bummer, but Lex tends to accumulate Gold, so he can at least pass down a "nest egg", like the Shield Ring or Return Band.

13 minutes ago, RPGuy96 said:

think a first-time player would generally leave the Brave Lance on Finn, and that feels more narratively correct.   Kaga doesn't lock it to Finn like in Thracia so ping is free to do what he wants with it, but Quan gives it to Finn not to Erin or the Chalphy bros.

Oh God

Speaking of narratively correct

Please don't let Ethlyn take the Light Brand with her. I know it's Leif's "canonically", but it also ranks among the best weapons in the game, and is definitely the best magical sword. I actually like to give it to Dew, so that he can rob enemies at range. This will substantially increase his ability to acquire, and distribute, Gold. While he can do this with any magical sword, the Light Brand shows up first.

16 minutes ago, RPGuy96 said:

I didn't actually think about Nanna's inheritance but that is pretty cool.  I never remember to use status staves (except for the part ping is writing up now where the game tries to teach you to use them), but they'd be better on her than the foot healers for sure.  Diarmuid sure would suck though.

Yeah, I've not used this pairing yet, but would like to someday. Warp directly on your mounted healer can "cut out the middleman" of a Return-Warp volley. As for status staves, yeah I haven't used them a ton, since they're super expensive. Still, I like how FE4 handles them - if your Magic beats their Resistance, it's a guaranteed hit. You never have to worry about a Silence missing, nor do you have to fear your high-Res units getting put to sleep due to a bad roll.

[Jotari]

All this eugenics talks really strikes me how inspired a choice it was to make every pairing a brother sister duo. It makes pairings way more complex and intricate. As compared to Awakening where it's basically "Pass down galeforce" with virtually no trade offs or alternative considerations.