Red Fox of Fire's character review topic (Complete)

[Florete]

Brom

Brom is probably the most traditional Armor Knight/General in the game in that he has low Speed and high Defense, unlike the other who have relatively high Speed averages. While this is not terrible, it's not too good either.

He joins in 2-1 and is pretty much a rockstar. He has a tough time dying and does pretty good damage, even managing to double and one-round some enemies. 2-2 is a bit worse for him since it's relatively fast and he has bad mobility, as well as starting near the back of the team. I usually send him north to deal with those guys so my main force doesn't have to deal with them later. And then he's cool on 2-E. You need walls, and he's good at that with his high Defense and HP. If you send him right, watch out for the Hammer bastard. That's why I usually have him wall the left with Nephenee raining Javelins down.

Then he waits until 3-2 to show up again. And now he's not exactly bad but he isn't good either. You can generally count on him to not die but don't expect him to kill much either. Low Strength and Speed does that to him. Not even a Speedwing will get him doubling anytime soon, so you can pretty much count on him to never double. On top of that his mobility sucks, so he's just a slow wall for all of part 3. And part 4. He doesn't really get any better (at least relative to the team) even after promotion.

It is nice, however, that he has Water affinity. Applied correctly that can be very useful. However, given all his other faults, it isn't really enough to save him. All in all, Brom is really mediocre after a good but short start.

5.5/10

Transfer changes:

Brom can get HP, Skill, Speed, and Defense from a transfer. This is....kind of cool. Outside of a few enemies in his joining maps he still won't double anything, so the Speed is relatively useless. The Skill boost is kind of nice because of a relatively low Skill growth and Axes, though it isn't much. The HP and Defense are cool but he already didn't die much. It'll help if you plan to use him fully and try to cap everything for Endgame, but I don't think it's enough for a better score.

Nephenee

Nephenee gets a lot of love from fanboys. Showing your legs in third tier does that, I guess.

Some of it is deserved. She joins in 2-1 with Brom, and while she isn't as good as him there, she's still pretty useful. She doubles about half the enemies and if she doesn't kill usually does a lot of damage, the problem being that she's rather frail. She is good at killing the boss though, since she can heal and take a hit to be in Wrath range. 2-2 is a similar deal, except now she can equip a Steel Lance to not be weighed down and a Javelin for ranged attacking. She might not do as much damage, and she's sill kind of frail, but she'll likely be one of your pushers in this map, which is helpful for reaching that turn limit. 2-E is rough for her since she hasn't had a chance to grow a lot of Strength and a lot of the enemies have high Defense. Most of what she does here is self-gain only.

She comes back for 3-2 and, while she doesn't start stellar, she grows into a great unit fairly fast. She'll be able to double a lot because of high Speed and has decent crit, so a crit forge will work well on her. She's a great candidate for BEXP slowplaying when she caps Skill, Speed, and Resistance, allowing her to power up problem stats like Strength and Defense at a faster rate. Later in tier 2 and then in tier 3 is when she becomes one of the better units on the team with her constant doubling and insanely high Skill for criticals and Impale activation. Granted she gets enough Strength she'll one of the better candidates for Endgame as well as the likely best user of the Wishblade.

It sucks that she has Wind affinity. It just isn't wanted by, like, anyone. She'll be left with the unsupported leftovers most likely. In the end, she has a shaky start but turns out great.

7.5/10

Transfer changes:

She can get Strength, Skill, and Speed from a transfer. This is awesome for her. It gives her 4 more AS in her joining map and the Strength boost mitigates a lot of her damage problems. Her goodish part 2 has become a solid "good" and her shaky start has gotten much better and easier to handle. She'll be able to BEXP slowplay faster and will be a much better unit while doing it.

8.5/10

[Jaybee]

inb4smashgetsangry

[Ardan]

inb4smashgetsangry

too late

[Silith]

That's it. This character rating topic is now officially bullshit.

[Interceptor]

That's it. This character rating topic is now officially bullshit.

Now now, she gave Brom a 5.5, which means his True Ranking<tm> is anywhere between 5.0 and 6.0.

[Florete]

That's it. This character rating topic is now officially bullshit.

If you can't even be bothered to tell me the problem you have with it, just keep that state of mind and don't post anymore.

[Candlejack]

Aran gets 7, Neph gets 7.5 (without a transfer). That works for me, but a lot of fanboys will get pissed off. It's part of being a TRUTHFUL REVIEWER I guess.

I really don't think Transfers are all too necessary, since most characters only get a .5/1.0 margin change. Case in point.

All in all, I like your ratings so far, except Sothe's. (He should've been a 6.5, at least.)

[Florete]

All in all, I like your ratings so far, except Sothe's. (He should've been a 6.5, at least.)

Either you made a typo or you read my score wrong. He is "at least" 6.5 since he's higher. If you were to say "at most" that would change things, but then I'd wonder if you've even played this game if you think that's the score he should get.

[Candlejack]

Blargh, typo at two points.

It's supposed to be 7.5 and AT MOST.

1. You overrate his Part 1 game too much; we have plenty of good (If not BETTER) units than him relatively early (Volug, Zihark, and arguably Jill and Nolan) that are able to rape JUST as much as him. He gets thieving utility, sure, but this works for, what, three chapters? Out of ten? It's not a big deal for Sothe if he can kick ass, since a lot of others can, if not more EFFICIENTLY.

2. ALSO unlike most characters in Part 1, past it, they get better. He gets some action in Part 3, like the aforementioned four above, but then just becomes utter shit. Like, seventh-string fighter shit. Like, I'd rather choose OLIVER over him shit. 29 STR cap and Knives do NOT help with combat utility, and his pathetic DEF growth just ruins him there too. I think he's only there to make Volke look good to be honest.

3. One of the top five characters in the game? More like top five characters in Part 1, and even that's a slim chance. That's a pretty large hyperbole if you ask me. Also, Volug > Sothe in terms of ZOMGEVERYTHING except Thieving.

4.

Luckily for him, though, his slot is free, so he's never hindering your progress by existing, only helping, even if it's limited to cheap potshots and Shoving.

I don't get this logic. If he takes up a slot, then he's already hindering your team by SUCKING. It's sort of like Kurth's forced deployment in Part 4- there are ways you can use him to make him useful, but he can't do a lot since he has such bad stats. If we don't agree that him taking up a slot is a bad thing since we're being forced to use a shitty unit, I present you with a question; if you could swap him out for another character where he is available, WOULD YOU deploy him in the first place?

5. Beast Killer offense is kind of overrated, since he is more or less a glass cannon in Part 3; putting Beastfoe on Nolan/Zihark pretty much guarantees exact, if not better, results.

6.

who looks like Leon Kennedy from Resident Evil 4 (At least I think so)

Leon Kennedy looks like Edward Cullen with blue eyes and straightened hair. Ergo:

a. Sothe looks like he belongs on a WB show IRL and an Inuyasha halloween special in anime.

b. It looks like three supermodels came in his hair, and he left it in as leave-in conditioner.

c. He looks like a member of a roaming Fallout Boy cover band.

------------

In conclusion, Sothe is an overrated fag.

EDIT: To explain Part 1 in better detail, imagine Part 1's enemies promoted and replaced with every Part 3 enemy.

Now, argue that Gatrie is probably the best character in that part since he rapes so many enemies.

BUT WAIT- you can't, since everyone in that part rapes so many enemies; Ike, Shinon, Mordecai, Gatrie, Titania, Oscar, Zihark, Haar, Nephenee, Mia, Reyson, Janaff, and Ulki.

Regardless of durability, these units perform excellently even when faced with Part 1's wtf enemies- PROMOTED no less.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Robert of Lenster

[Florete]

1. You overrate his Part 1 game too much; we have plenty of good (If not BETTER) units than him relatively early (Volug, Zihark, and arguably Jill and Nolan) that are able to rape JUST as much as him. He gets thieving utility, sure, but this works for, what, three chapters? Out of ten? It's not a big deal for Sothe if he can kick ass, since a lot of others can, if not more EFFICIENTLY.

For one, Volug is already > Sothe. For two, check the stats to see that part 1 Sothe > part 1 Zihark. More HP, Def, and Str, as well as an auto A support. He also has 1-2, 1-3, and 1-4 without even them. He's way better than Nolan and Jill for most of part 1.

2. ALSO unlike most characters in Part 1, past it, they get better. He gets some action in Part 3, like the aforementioned four above, but then just becomes utter shit. Like, seventh-string fighter shit. Like, I'd rather choose OLIVER over him shit. 29 STR cap and Knives do NOT help with combat utility, and his pathetic DEF growth just ruins him there too. I think he's only there to make Volke look good to be honest.

28 Str cap. And so what? Part 4 does not hold as much weight as previous parts because it's just easier to get by.

3. One of the top five characters in the game? More like top five characters in Part 1, and even that's a slim chance. That's a pretty large hyperbole if you ask me. Also, Volug > Sothe in terms of ZOMGEVERYTHING except Thieving.

More like best character in part 1 overall (meaning if you were to tier units based on part 1 performance only, Sothe would likely win. Only Volug would be competition). Volug is already > Sothe.

4.

Luckily for him, though, his slot is free, so he's never hindering your progress by existing, only helping, even if it's limited to cheap potshots and Shoving.

I don't get this logic. If he takes up a slot, then he's already hindering your team by SUCKING.

Wtf are you talking about? Unlike most characters, Sothe's slot is free. His existence doesn't cut anyone out of existing so anything he does to help is a net positive, and if you say he can't do anything to help, I'll tell you to kindly stfu and actually try to think logically.

It's sort of like Kurth's forced deployment in Part 4- there are ways you can use him to make him useful, but he can't do a lot since he has such bad stats. If we don't agree that him taking up a slot is a bad thing since we're being forced to use a shitty unit, I present you with a question; if you could swap him out for another character where he is available, WOULD YOU deploy him in the first place?

No, but that's irrelevant because the game doesn't let you do that. Unless I hack, I will have Kurth for Endgame. What I would want to do otherwise doesn't matter.

5. Beast Killer offense is kind of overrated, since he is more or less a glass cannon in Part 3; putting Beastfoe on Nolan/Zihark pretty much guarantees exact, if not better, results.

What's awesome is that Sothe doesn't need Beastkiller to match their offense and he's hardly less durable than the likes of Zihark and some others.

a. Sothe looks like he belongs on a WB show IRL and an Inuyasha halloween special in anime.

b. It looks like three supermodels came in his hair, and he left it in as leave-in conditioner.

c. He looks like a member of a roaming Fallout Boy cover band.

------------

In conclusion, Sothe is an overrated fag.

See, people like you are the reason I included this line:

What's funny is that this guy is like the most underrated character in the entire series because a lot of the uneducated fandom treats him as a typical Jeigan and say he sucks all the time

Even if I am overrating him, and it is possible, I'm way overshadowed by people like you who don't understand what makes a unit good.

EDIT: To explain Part 1 in better detail, imagine Part 1's enemies promoted and replaced with every Part 3 enemy.

Now, argue that Gatrie is probably the best character in that part since he rapes so many enemies.

BUT WAIT- you can't, since everyone in that part rapes so many enemies; Ike, Shinon, Mordecai, Gatrie, Titania, Oscar, Zihark, Haar, Nephenee, Mia, Reyson, Janaff, and Ulki.

Regardless of durability, these units perform excellently even when faced with Part 1's wtf enemies- PROMOTED no less.

...Wtf is this?

Edited December 15, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Narga_Rocks]

I just realized something. I'd forgotten I made this post.

Aran is my favorite character in this game (If N/T Nephenee gets the anything higher than an 8, I will raeg, because even an 8 is pushing it), but...

might (important word there) tie or even beat Tauroneo.

Not even might.

Never.

I would imagine Neph will be getting either a 7.5 or an 8, but probably a 7.5. The transfer version probably 8.5.

Nephenee

7.5/10

Transfer changes:

8.5/10

I'm good. (Well, I suppose given their positions on the tier list it wasn't too hard to predict, but still: I want my props.)

Edited December 15, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Original Alear]

What's awesome is that Sothe doesn't need Beastkiller to match their offense and he's hardly less durable than the likes of Zihark and some others.

I don't know that Sothe is any more durable than zihark during part 3. Zihark has a realistic A support off his earth w/ Jill, aran, volug or nolan (I usually choose jill). Sothe has a pretty crappy affin in comparison, so even if you were going to get rid of the miccy support I really doubt you'd want to give it to any of the above (who would rather support w/ each other, and maybe even a C w/ taur who has a better affin than sothe as well).

The only other good DB who might be less durable than sothe is jill w/ her awful HP, but since she probably gets a better dodge support IMO and gets def off her own affin, I'm pretty sure she can take more than 3 hits in 3-6 as long as at least one is from a cat.

Don't see how aran, nolan taureono or volug are less durable than sothe.

And w/out a beastkiller sothe is doing very low damage against laguz, and isn't doubling cats (zihark might). Do you mean w/out a beastfoe (b/c he can use killer instead)?

[Florete]

What's awesome is that Sothe doesn't need Beastkiller to match their offense and he's hardly less durable than the likes of Zihark and some others.

I don't know that Sothe is any more durable than zihark during part 3. Zihark has a realistic A support off his earth w/ Jill, aran, volug or nolan (I usually choose jill). Sothe has a pretty crappy affin in comparison, so even if you were going to get rid of the miccy support I really doubt you'd want to give it to any of the above (who would rather support w/ each other, and maybe even a C w/ taur who has a better affin than sothe as well).

I didn't say he was more durable than anyone, I said he was hardly less durable since Zihark is still being 2HKOd. And Zihark's only chance at an A for 3-6 is Jill. Everyone else is too slow.

And w/out a beastkiller sothe is doing very low damage against laguz, and isn't doubling cats (zihark might). Do you mean w/out a beastfoe (b/c he can use killer instead)?

Yeah, I meant without Beastfoe.

[Narga_Rocks]

What's awesome is that Sothe doesn't need Beastkiller to match their offense and he's hardly less durable than the likes of Zihark and some others.

I don't know that Sothe is any more durable than zihark during part 3. Zihark has a realistic A support off his earth w/ Jill, aran, volug or nolan (I usually choose jill). Sothe has a pretty crappy affin in comparison, so even if you were going to get rid of the miccy support I really doubt you'd want to give it to any of the above (who would rather support w/ each other, and maybe even a C w/ taur who has a better affin than sothe as well).

I didn't say he was more durable than anyone, I said he was hardly less durable since Zihark is still being 2HKOd. And Zihark's only chance at an A for 3-6 is Jill. Everyone else is too slow.

Jill misses 1-8. It's about even between Jill and Volug for getting Zihark's attention. Everyone else should take at least one extra chapter.

Not that I've stopped disagreeing with you about the feasibility of a Jill x Zihark A support in 3-6. I suppose you did say "chance at".

Edited December 15, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[Original Alear]

Not that I've stopped disagreeing with you about the feasibility of a Jill x Zihark A support in 3-6. I suppose you did say "chance at".

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if green units that are playable in other chapters can get support points?

I'm asking because I'm pretty sure that they already get WEXP, so I'm curious if other non-exp points build up even when not controlled by the PC.

[Narga_Rocks]

Not that I've stopped disagreeing with you about the feasibility of a Jill x Zihark A support in 3-6. I suppose you did say "chance at".

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if green units that are playable in other chapters can get support points?

I'm asking because I'm pretty sure that they already get WEXP, so I'm curious if other non-exp points build up even when not controlled by the PC.

It's in the support page.

They aren't blue, so they don't get a chapter bonus. They are green, so they get adjacent points with any green unit. At most, that's 4 adjacents, because they don't have a turn 6 and they don't start the map adjacent. Just turns 2, 3, 4, 5. And you can't force them to be nice and stay adjacent, either.

[Original Alear]

They aren't blue, so they don't get a chapter bonus. They are green, so they get adjacent points with any green unit. At most, that's 4 adjacents, because they don't have a turn 6 and they don't start the map adjacent. Just turns 2, 3, 4, 5. And you can't force them to be nice and stay adjacent, either.

At least ch 10's green units have a tendency to clump together in any case.

...

Too bad they're pretty much **** for the most part...

[Narga_Rocks]

They aren't blue, so they don't get a chapter bonus. They are green, so they get adjacent points with any green unit. At most, that's 4 adjacents, because they don't have a turn 6 and they don't start the map adjacent. Just turns 2, 3, 4, 5. And you can't force them to be nice and stay adjacent, either.

At least ch 10's green units have a tendency to clump together in any case.

...

Too bad they're pretty much **** for the most part...

I take it you mean 3-10? Yeah, I've had Geoffrey and Astrid both die, and I think another as well. On NM and EM Elincia is smart enough to stay away from the enemies (and thus so do the others), but the time I played HM she goes east (and so do the others). Weaponless unit going towards enemies? Genius, thy name is Elincia. Well, I wonder if I'm even allowed using that phrase sarcastically. Oh well.

So, yeah, they all pack together and could get you a fair number of +3s and +4s each turn, though it's entirely possible for them to not gain those points with the units you actually want.

A fun consequence of this is Tanith + Sigrun in 3-12 (they are adjacent). It's why almost everyone that plays the game will have a C support possible for them in 3-E no matter what you did in 3-11.

Also, Mordy and Lethe in 3-6, though due to FoW you can't tell if they are ever actually adjacent. They start adjacent in NM and don't move unless a unit gets in range, so on NM (and probably EM) they'll earn a lot of points for that chapter. Easy B for 3-7 if you use them both and they had a C in 3-4. In HM they'll get points for turn 1, but when they start moving towards you I have no way of knowing if they usually remain adjacent for a while. Or if they start moving on turn 1 or later, since if they stay put for a turn or two they'll get points that way.

Oh, and you can earn points by shoving units of different colours. Even blue shoving red. I had Nolan shove Aran while Aran was red and after recruitment had them earn just enough points that success relied on that shove earning points. It did. It's just too bad most pairs get either 1 point or 2 points only for this action.

[Florete]

Heather

Yes, Heather is a lesbian.

She shows up a few turns into 2-1 to help Brom and Nephenee. Well, sort of. She really doesn't have very good offense or defense. She doubles everything but for fairly bad damage, although when you only have two other fighters it's still fairly useful. Then she's got 2-2. Increased vision makes her useful here even out of combat, which is good because she's still having problems dealing anything that could be called "good damage" to anything that isn't a Mage or an Archer. Then in 2-E I'm pretty sure she does better with a Magic card. Yeah, it's not good. Considering her 25% Strength growth, her combat is only getting worse as the game goes on. Getting Bane on promotion helps, but not that much.

Of course, what makes Heather not suck isn't her combat but her Thieving utility. 2-1 doesn't have much except for some extra Vulneraries and the like, but 2-2 has a Secret Book to steal and a Discipline scroll to find (which, given the time limit, is nice to get reliably fast). 2-E has a few more hidden items like Olivi Grass as well as a Dracoshield to steal. Skip to part 3 and there honestly isn't much left but still enough for her to find some use. All of her maps have something hidden in the ground, though a lot of them are Coins. The notable treasures are Ettard in 3-4, Olivi Grass in 3-5, and a Rescue staff in 3-E. Of course, anyone can pick those up, just with smaller chances, so she only gets partial credit.

Then there's stealing, which is exclusive to her in part 3. She's the only chance of getting a Storm Sword in 3-2 and can also get 4k in the form of a Statue Frag depending on how you play the map. She can save some BEXP in 3-3 by stealing from the Senators so you don't have to kill them. 3-5 has an Energy Drop from the boss. She can take the Dawn Brigade's Master Crown from Zihark or Jill in 3-7 if they aren't being recruited. She can steal Physic in 3-10, which is pretty nice considering the 2-E would have likely run out by now. Those are the notable items. Otherwise it's just various things like Vulneraries and Disarmed weapons that aren't really worth much credit.

She's got some choice in part 4. She can go with Micaiah to help Sothe find items in the desert. She can go with Ike to spare them from needing someone to use Keys on the chests (or of course, be another chest opener). There are also a few things to find in Tibarn's group, though not as much. Overall, part 4 is holding less weight for her just like everyone else because most of what she grabs isn't really as good now as they might have been before.

So if you haven't already figured it out, Heather's rank is entirely dependent on her Thieving and a little bit of part 2 combat. I suppose her Fire affinity could find a match somewhere, but since she won't even be fielded every map that really isn't likely. She's not going to Endgame.

6/10

Lucia

Lucia is interesting. Given her affinity and class you'd think she'd be pretty good, but instead she falls short.

She starts in 2-2, where she's pretty good, arguably the best unit there. She doubles everything and does pretty good damage with her Silver Sword, one rounding often and leaving weak otherwise. Pretty essential for a fast completion. Not Black Knight in 1-9 essential, but very good nonetheless.

And then...she's gone. She waits until part 4, 4-2 to be exact, to reappear. And now, of course, she sucks. I mean, she's not even doubling reliably anymore. It's not as if she's Tormod bad now, but she's not nearly as good as everyone else. She doesn't do much damage and her durability is bad. She has good crit and can +10 by standing next to Elincia, which is pretty much the only way she'll get kills, but things can just be done so much faster by others. Given that her only good growths are Skill, Speed, and Resistance, she isn't really getting any better. Strength and Defense being two of her worst growths when they're already pretty bad is definitely not a good thing.

She's not completely beyond repair, though. She can get a very fast support with Elincia, the Bond being a bonus, and a powerful forge will help immensely when she actually starts doubling reliably. She should be able to get a lot of experience in 4-5 from the Laguz as well, and Astra when she promotes will raise her kill rates much higher. I'd never go so far as to say she's actually good, of course. In the end, it's one map of great and a few more of bad.

3.5/10

There's nothing Lucia can reasonably get from a transfer. Moving on.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Naglfar]

As far as I can tell, Lucia isn't even that durable in 2-2 either... and loltypo at the end.

[Oceanbourne]

2-E has a few more hidden items like Olivi Grass as well as a Dracoshield to steal.

What's the easiest way to obtain that Dracoshield? I'm guessing it has something to do with Elincia or Haar dropping her on Ludveck's platform, but nothing else.

[Interceptor]

To get the Dracoshield, usually you wait until a turn where you're going to kill Ludveck, because otherwise Heather will die. Standard strategy:

- Get Leanne and a flier (Marcia or Haar or whomever) on the second platform, and have the flier pick up Heather on the turn prior.

- Next turn, have the flier go down to the third platform, and drop Heather.

- Have Leanne fly down and Vigor Heather (and the flier if you want).

- Run up to the General, and steal the Draco.

- Do whatever else you want, but finish by killing Ludveck to end the chapter.

[Oceanbourne]

Forgot about Marcia, thanks.

[CT075]

I think you should mention that Heather's your only chance to get a Bolting before part 4. Otherwise, keep up the good work!

[Shadow Mir]

I think you should mention that Heather's your only chance to get a Bolting before part 4. Otherwise, keep up the good work!

But is it really that practical? Considering the amount of abuse it'll take, I say no.