Mist VS Rhys

[Snowy_One]

BEXP is plentiful enough that this is a small barrier to pass.

Remember that all needs to be fair. If you're gonna give Mist enough Bexp to have her catch up to Rhys, Rhys needs to get something in return unless it can be shown Mist is the absolute best with said Bexp. I highly doubt that.

This would be cooler if you got them fast enough. As it is, the first comes in 17-2 and second in 20. Plus, even with Physics, more move will still give a greater range over time, especially when you get to big maps. Saying movement doesn't matter is a load of crap.

While someone already pointed out your flaw with availability, allow me to also point out that these extra two chapters give Rhys a big edge (will Mist even have the weapon level to use it? I don't know) since, for chapters 15, 16, and the first part of 17 at least, he will flat-out curbstomp her as a healer. It's only two chapters, but Muarim dominates for about the same amount of time and people adore him.

It's been shown that Mist's combat, while not spectacular, can be somewhat good, while Rhys' won't be because he has much trouble doubling and he can't take as many hits.

Taking hits don't matter since you will never be attacking directly with Rhys. As for Mist's combat, the only way it's even possible is if Mist first gets her sword-rank to a B. That only happens with mass-babying of weapon levels or using both the scrolls on her.

That's more like a sandbag to deny Mist the SS. This hurts Mia since she can't use other bands and it's pointless because Mist gets so much more out of it.

Eh? The only band Mia would even feasibly want is a +STR/DEF band. Plus, with the mage band and her attack supports, Mia is actually capable of killing while using the SS with a critical (an easy thing since wrath is best-spent on Mia). No one else wants the mage band barring the unlikely team combination of Tormod/Calill, and Mist only gets 12.5 kills with the SS even if she gets it (compared to Mia's ~ 20). Not to mention Mia gains a 1-2 option she needs as a combat unit, while Mist only gains a combat function she never needed since she's a healer. Plus, we had to waste two scrolls on Mist for those 12.5 kills, while Mia can still jump over to the RS once it comes along and was unlikely to get any other band anyways.

[Anouleth]

BEXP is plentiful enough that this is a small barrier to pass.

Remember that all needs to be fair. If you're gonna give Mist enough Bexp to have her catch up to Rhys, Rhys needs to get something in return unless it can be shown Mist is the absolute best with said Bexp. I highly doubt that.

I really don't see any need to give BEXP to either of them. I wouldn't waste a Seal on Rhys when he gets so little from it, while Mist will just be Sealed at level 10 for the horsey.

Neither are going to be fighting, the only thing they could gain from more levels is more magic. Mist uses Mend so low magic isn't really hurting her, Rhys uses Physic but he has h4x magic anyway.

I'm honestly not that good at FE but I can still max BEXP on most maps, though during the early maps you sometimes have to restart if you get an unlucky miss if you want to get all the kills (so few units means missing can add a turn on to your count). Other than that, some of the "special conditions" (no deployment bonus)

I honestly think the only chapters that are tough to beat "in time" are:

-CH 10 Jail (while not getting spotted)

-CH 15 Desert (while getting all treasures and killing no laguz)

-CH 16 oliver's manse (while getting all treasures)

-CH 18 (simply because it's a route and the raven spawns slow me down).

-Ch 23 because it's easy to make mistakes about how quickly you can advance.

-CH 24 while killing boss is sometimes tricky IMO

And for all of these, I'd say finishing them one or two turns past is still reasonable.

I find earlygame chapters annoying to complete in time without using Titania/Gatrie. C4 is probably impossible, since Soren and Rhys fail, Shinon can't deal with the enemy density, Ike is probably not at the point where he can charge in and kill everything without breaking a sweat.

I...have a hard time comparing things as easy as PoR HM and RD NM. Too much bexp, too many gods to be created. That kind of thing. Oh, and I rng-abused in the base for level ups in PoR, so I can't accurately compare them. The only fixed mode runthrough I did in PoR was NM.

Not that having a level 20/1 Mist with ~15 str isn't fun, though. Or a 20/~9 Mia with 22 str.

Anyway, it's been so long with PoR that I can't remember the difficulty of the start, but I'm fairly certain part 1 RD NM is harder than PoR HM. Or should I say PoR HM is easier than RD part 1 NM?

Try PoR EM. It's quite funny. You can promote Soren by the end of C8!

(Strangely, enemy stats don't seem to be changed at all on EM from HM, just the exp rates. Which are lolridiculous.)

[Florete]

Remember that all needs to be fair.

Stopped right there. I read your anti-Volug arguments on GameFAQs. They were just as bad.

[Original Alear]

While someone already pointed out your flaw with availability, allow me to also point out that these extra two chapters give Rhys a big edge (will Mist even have the weapon level to use it? I don't know) since, for chapters 15, 16, and the first part of 17 at least, he will flat-out curbstomp her as a healer. It's only two chapters, but Muarim dominates for about the same amount of time and people adore him.

I don't see why curbstomp on healing power is all that useful. It's not THAT often you're going to need more than 30 HP healed at this point in the game, and mist can probably manage that by now with a mend.

Mist only needs to heal 24 times with heal/mend staves in order to be able to use psychic. If you're using her I think she would easily make it by Ch 15.

I find earlygame chapters annoying to complete in time without using Titania/Gatrie. C4 is probably impossible, since Soren and Rhys fail, Shinon can't deal with the enemy density, Ike is probably not at the point where he can charge in and kill everything without breaking a sweat.

Ya. But why wouldn't you use them, especially Titania? I'm not saying you should hand them every kill, but if it's gonna help you get through the chapter on time...

Also, is Boyd not available in that chapter? I remembered only Oscar being banned, guess I was wrong.

Taking hits don't matter since you will never be attacking directly with Rhys. As for Mist's combat, the only way it's even possible is if Mist first gets her sword-rank to a B. That only happens with mass-babying of weapon levels or using both the scrolls on her.

One scroll is probably all that's needed. She starts with a D and about 20 uses of a steel sword will get her to C, THEN you scroll her. It might take her until ch 24 or so though since you'd need to give up a heal turn to attack, and generally she's just too frail to be worth attacking with.

I usually see it as a possibly good investment since the sonic and runeswords are useless on anyone else, except maybe Tanith, (and elincia, but elincia w/ B swords is even funnier than mist with B swords) whereas mist with the runesword actually has pretty remarkable attack power in addition to the heal. (thanks to it having more might than any magic spell in the game besides rexbolt)

Try PoR EM. It's quite funny. You can promote Soren by the end of C8!

(Strangely, enemy stats don't seem to be changed at all on EM from HM, just the exp rates. Which are lolridiculous.)

Do you mean NM? The HM stats are definitely higher than EM enemies.

The exp rates are just as ridiculous in RD easy mode. Isn't it simply CEXP*2 for all units? Anyways, in EM even Titania and Shinon level about as quickly as a HM Ike IIRC.

Edited February 26, 2010 by SeverIan

[Anouleth]

Ya. But why wouldn't you use them, especially Titania? I'm not saying you should hand them every kill, but if it's gonna help you get through the chapter on time...

BUT SHE IS JAYGEN SHE HOGS EXP

It just annoys me. I don't really like Titania or Gatrie, I certainly don't want to waste CEXP on them when I want to give it all to Soren.

[Snowy_One]

Stopped right there. I read your anti-Volug arguments on GameFAQs. They were just as bad.

Oh? Then would you care to explain to me how Mist, a character other people have said is a bad idea to waste Bexp on, is somehow going to be equal to Rhys in terms of level without Bexp? It just doesn't happen. Either A) Bexp is distrubuted evenly across all characters, and Rhys still has a level advantage. B) Bexp is distributed according to the characters who helped earn it and Rhys has a larger level advantage due to getting several extra chapters of Bexp. C) We throw the notion of fairness out the window and render a tier list useless.

C is obviously a wrong answer given that we're making a statement that one is better than the other, and that statement can not be made if we're just gonna dump favors on one character. That leaves A and B, both of which leave Rhys winning.

Hey! It only takes 2 SPD to get Rhys out of the danger range of being doubled! Let's give him a speed band/wing! Don't like it? Tough cookies. Mist is getting Bexp she doesn't even need to perform at the same level. Rhys still having problems with STR? Let's give him a forged light tome (just for min-weight)! Mist is getting scrolls and babying as well as the SS to attack after all.

I don't see why curbstomp on healing power is all that useful. It's not THAT often you're going to need more than 30 HP healed at this point in the game, and mist can probably manage that by now with a mend.

One word. Range. Physic staves come along in 15, and once he gets his hands on one, Rhys will flat-out out-range Mist until she promotes. Mist has lower MAG and will not have her movement boost yet, meaning she fails at ranged healing while Rhys wins.

One scroll is probably all that's needed. She starts with a D and about 20 uses of a steel sword will get her to C, THEN you scroll her. It might take her until ch 24 or so though since you'd need to give up a heal turn to attack, and generally she's just too frail to be worth attacking with.

Still, that's about 10 uses or so that need to be babied up and carefully. Since Mist lacks STR and is using a sword to boot any enemies in the area are gonna shoot right for her. At the least, this is bad because it means that there will be clean-up after the enemy phase.

I usually see it as a possibly good investment since the sonic and runeswords are useless on anyone else, except maybe Tanith, (and elincia, but elincia w/ B swords is even funnier than mist with B swords) whereas mist with the runesword actually has pretty remarkable attack power in addition to the heal. (thanks to it having more might than any magic spell in the game besides rexbolt)

Mia can use it easily. The other SM can use them well with some dust on top of the band (Favoritism, but still...). Anyone who can muster a bit of solid attack with the RS will want it given they didn't get a heal last turn and were wounded (though it may be better to pop a vulnerary overall). I would say that it's fairly in-demand. Mist doesn't even use it best due to babying/lack of critical. Mia does due to her getting basically a 75% critical rate with it when wrathed.

[Interceptor]

Ahh, Snowy, I missed having you around.

The correct option is, actually: C. There is no real reason to evenly split resources when units perform differently with them. Communist distribution is not really the prevailing method around here anymore, we look at things like opportunity cost and economic profit.

I have not cracked the optimal way to play Mist, but I suspect that it involves BEXP and a Seal by Ch18 or so, plus at least one Arms Scroll. Mist is obviously taking things from the army, but her BEXP needs are not extraordinary and can be delayed (she gains little benefit from BEXP until she's ready to promote). It's a little silly to give Rhys a Speedwing and call it even, the things you give up in order to give him that booster won't even let you break even.

[Narga_Rocks]

Stopped right there. I read your anti-Volug arguments on GameFAQs. They were just as bad.

Oh? Then would you care to explain to me how Mist, a character other people have said is a bad idea to waste Bexp on, is somehow going to be equal to Rhys in terms of level without Bexp? It just doesn't happen. Either A) Bexp is distrubuted evenly across all characters, and Rhys still has a level advantage. B) Bexp is distributed according to the characters who helped earn it and Rhys has a larger level advantage due to getting several extra chapters of Bexp. C) We throw the notion of fairness out the window and render a tier list useless.

C is obviously a wrong answer given that we're making a statement that one is better than the other, and that statement can not be made if we're just gonna dump favors on one character. That leaves A and B, both of which leave Rhys winning.

To go more in depth, there are more options than the ones you listed. Your A is not efficient. Your B is not efficient. Splitting bexp evenly doesn't really make sense when not everyone uses X bexp in the same way, and if you want to go by a reward system then you'll be giving like half your early game bexp to Titania.

No, sorry, the best way to distribute bexp is to use bexp in a way that improves the team as a whole the most, which is neither A nor B. Actually, you should like one of the consequences of this statement. Mia gets bexp'd to like level 10 in chapter 8. Hopefully you got her some decent exp in chapter 7, but regardless, she, Oscar, and Boyd get bumped up to make chapter 8 oh so much easier.

Hey! It only takes 2 SPD to get Rhys out of the danger range of being doubled! Let's give him a speed band/wing! Don't like it? Tough cookies. Mist is getting Bexp she doesn't even need to perform at the same level. Rhys still having problems with STR? Let's give him a forged light tome (just for min-weight)! Mist is getting scrolls and babying as well as the SS to attack after all.

Mist ORKOs everything but mages with the SS. And you could just do one scroll. Now, if you really want Rhys attacking stuff you could certainly forge him a 1wt light tome. Of course, forging mt on a 2mt weapon in this game is ridiculously expensive. There's a reason that the only tome forges that should have large amounts of mt should be thunder. This game seems to base cost off of percentage improvement on the mt score, or something like that. They are certainly correlated, anyway. And equating speed band/wing to bexp is also way off. When applying concepts like opportunity cost and economic profit, Rhys can basically get anything that will result in a net positive if we are giving Mist stuff like that. Since there is probably at least 6 units that can use a speedwing better than Rhys it's really hard to justify. As for bands, I think there are 3 or 4 bands that give +spd, maybe more, but in 15 levels that's only .75 spd. Not extremely meaningful.

One word. Range. Physic staves come along in 15, and once he gets his hands on one, Rhys will flat-out out-range Mist until she promotes. Mist has lower MAG and will not have her movement boost yet, meaning she fails at ranged healing while Rhys wins.

Sure, he'll beat her in range. But by enough to matter? The minimum range is 5. How quickly is Rhys getting levels anyway? At level 12 he only has 6 range. Even at level 14 he only has 7 range. It's not really a large improvement over 5 range.

Mia can use it easily. The other SM can use them well with some dust on top of the band (Favoritism, but still...). Anyone who can muster a bit of solid attack with the RS will want it given they didn't get a heal last turn and were wounded (though it may be better to pop a vulnerary overall). I would say that it's fairly in-demand. Mist doesn't even use it best due to babying/lack of critical. Mia does due to her getting basically a 75% critical rate with it when wrathed.

Reliability vs. Saving uses. If you give the Sonic Sword to whichever unit you gave wrath (hopefully Mia, Zihark, or Stefan, though Stefan has Astra already and you'd have to remove it) then sure they may get some crits. But even if they manage to save uses (which requires 3HKOing normally and having it crit on the first attack) they won't 100% ORKO with the thing. And if you want a ranged attack when they aren't at half hp or less?

Besides, you can still get a good 24 kills out of it with one use of hammerne. What else are you using it on?

[-Cynthia-]

If Mist is promoting by Ch18 or so, it really negates a lot of her horse leads because Physics show up around this time. This is part of the reason I often find Mist overrated.

Runesword!Mist runs into Wt issues, since the thing has 19 Wt it will always be weighing down Mist, probably by 5-8 AS or so which will put her out of doubling range.

[Original Alear]

Bexp is distributed according to the characters who helped earn it and Rhys has a larger level advantage due to getting several extra chapters of Bexp

LOL wut? This is by far the silliest idea I've ever heard regarding BEXP. "Hey rhys, you did a good job last chapter, you're getting a bonus!"

Still, that's about 10 uses or so that need to be babied up and carefully. Since Mist lacks STR and is using a sword to boot any enemies in the area are gonna shoot right for her. At the least, this is bad because it means that there will be clean-up after the enemy phase.

Mist is mounted and has remove, it's far from difficult to have her attack and canto away. You might point out that the enemy she attacked will probably still reach her, but that's what player phase is for.

[luigi bros]

Mist. I've only used her but she was really good. The fact that she helps Ike in the Black Knight fight and the fact that she gets a horse helps.