Mist VS Rhys

[NinjaMonkey]

It's not like you have to win the BK fight to beat the game anyway, so using that as a reason for training Mist isn't very good.

I'd rather have Nasir as my dragon than Ena, to be quite honest...

[-Cynthia-]

I'd rather have Nasir as my dragon than Ena, to be quite honest...

Nasir is better than Ena, but neither help to complete the game very much. They have low Mov and both get slaughtered by Ashnard without Resolve, and we get better results by Wrath/Resolving Ike anyway.

[Momo]

Rhys. Even if Mist is better (I don't even see their gap being that big), I prefer starting healers.

[Shadow Mir]

First off, characters aren't going to be at 20/20 for very long. Also, the defense-resistance gap for Tellius enemies isn't as big as you might think it is. Plus, Rhys has no answer whatsoever to Mist's better supports and affinity.

Not a big difference? So lets say enemies have 4-6 points of resistence less than defence. Rhys has more attack power in the first place, so until mist builds the sword level up enough to use the silver blade, Rhys will be doing much better offensively, Maybe not ORKOing but he will do significant chip damage so others can easily finish off the almost dead unit, or he can finish off a weakened unit. As for supports, It isn't such a big deal for your healer to be supported with a bunch of people, assuming you aren't tanking with him. Mist doesn't have great supports either. As for affinity, does it do anything other than determine support bonuses? I'm not very familiar with the affinities.

@ bold: That has to be one of the biggest lies I've ever seen. In what universe does supporting FOUR high or top tier units NOT count as "having great supports"??? At any rate, Rhys's offense gets hindered by the fact that he's almost never doubling. And when that's one of your few good qualities... Also, I've seen the def-res gap be around 3-6 for the most part.

[BK-201]

Looked at the Rune sword >.<

Yes even if he doesn't double, he's doing more than Mist is with her lol stregnth stat, weapons can be used much more efficiently with almost any other sword using unit.

[Momo]

I'm not getting why Mist's supports are great, while Rhy's aren't. Rhys supports Kieran, Titania and Marcia, while Mist supports Titania, Jill and Mordecai. All those people are at least high (I think), so what is the problem?

[-Cynthia-]

Rhys supports Ulki, not Marcia. They also both support Rolf, but I doubt we're using him.

There's also the fact that Mist keeps up with her high Mov partners(IE all the good ones) post-promotion, while Rhys falls significantly behind Titania/Kieran, meaning they either won't get bonuses or have to slow down. Not to mention Water>Fire as an affinity.

Edited December 23, 2009 by -Cynthia-

[Shadow Mir]

Looked at the Rune sword >.<

Yes even if he doesn't double, he's doing more than Mist is with her lol stregnth stat, weapons can be used much more efficiently with almost any other sword using unit.

Rhys's problem is that he doesn't have much else going for him.

I'm not getting why Mist's supports are great, while Rhy's aren't. Rhys supports Kieran, Titania and Marcia, while Mist supports Titania, Jill and Mordecai. All those people are at least high (I think), so what is the problem?

First off, ignoring Rofl and Titania (as Rhys and Mist both support them), Rhys has Kieran, Ulki, and Mia (don't see where you're getting Marcia from). Mist supports Jill, Boyd, and Mordecai. Titania and Kieran don't really care for Rhys, lolUlki, and Mia's not exactly what I'd call impressive.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Cynthia...

Edited December 23, 2009 by Richter Renard

[BK-201]

It seems it comes down to healing as Rhys definitely pwns Mist in fighting.

Mist doesn't outperform him drastically. Just 2nd tier mobility. You have to wait for that.

Rhys is better earlier, heals more, and is better offensively, all Mist has is speed and movement.

[Florete]

First off, ignoring Rofl and Titania (as Rhys and Mist both support them)

You shouldn't ignore Titania just because both can support her. Mist is a much better partner for her. Full Def instead of half and better able to keep up > lolHit.

It seems it comes down to healing as Rhys definitely pwns Mist in fighting.

Except, you know, Mist has better durability and can double.

[Shadow Mir]

First off, ignoring Rofl and Titania (as Rhys and Mist both support them)

You shouldn't ignore Titania just because both can support her. Mist is a much better partner for her. Full Def instead of half and better able to keep up > lolHit.

It seems it comes down to healing as Rhys definitely pwns Mist in fighting.

Except, you know, Mist has better durability and can double.

I understand that I shouldn't ignore Titania because both can support her; I was merely saying that they have Rolf and Titania in common, so I was putting them aside, and giving a more in-depth look to their other support partners. Anyway, I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Momo]

Rhys supports Ulki, not Marcia. They also both support Rolf, but I doubt we're using him.

There's also the fact that Mist keeps up with her high Mov partners(IE all the good ones) post-promotion, while Rhys falls significantly behind Titania/Kieran, meaning they either won't get bonuses or have to slow down. Not to mention Water>Fire as an affinity.

I was thinking of Mia when I wrote Marcia, heh. Unless Titania/Kieran are blasting away from the group every single turn, I don't see how this is a big problem. Mist's supports are better, I just question why people think Rhys' are bad.

edit: Also just realized that both Titania and Kieran main axes, wouldn't their extra hit from Rhys matter more than the defense Mist gives?

Edited December 23, 2009 by Saloma

[Shadow Mir]

Rhys supports Ulki, not Marcia. They also both support Rolf, but I doubt we're using him.

There's also the fact that Mist keeps up with her high Mov partners(IE all the good ones) post-promotion, while Rhys falls significantly behind Titania/Kieran, meaning they either won't get bonuses or have to slow down. Not to mention Water>Fire as an affinity.

I was thinking of Mia when I wrote Marcia, heh. Unless Titania/Kieran are blasting away from the group every single turn, I don't see how this is a big problem. Mist's supports are better, I just question why people think Rhys' are bad.

edit: Also just realized that both Titania and Kieran main axes, wouldn't their extra hit from Rhys matter more than the defense Mist gives?

With regard to Titania and Kieran wanting Rhys: No. Kieran has Marcia, who gives him the same bonuses as Rhys does minus the hassle of having to gimp his movement. I really don't see a reason why Titania would want to support Rhys over Mist when getting full Defense and actually being able to keep up owns lolhit any day of the week. And there's Boyd, who, unlike Rhys, can actually make use of the hit bonus Titania gives...

Edited December 24, 2009 by Richter Renard

[Momo]

Titania's Boyd support takes 20 turns to get to an A, but only 11 with Rhys. That's a whole 9 chapters in which his support is helping more. Boyd might want Titania, but Titania probably doesn't want Boyd.

Kieran's support with Rhys is also faster than Marcia's by two chapters, but there's no reason he can't just take both of them (Oscar might want to wait for Tanith). He's only got three different people to support, so he'll want anything he can get.

In any case, Rhys would only "want" one of them, since Mia's starved for supports. Double fire means she gets +3 attack with an A, something she doesn't get from anyone else.

[CassieCinders]

I'd say Mist, valkyrie is superior to bishop IMO and except for staves, Rhys only gets light magic which is kinda useless.

Mist gets swords, which may not be splendid on her, but at least gives her the ability to defend herself. Something that Rhys lacks for me.

I'm not even gonna start about supports

[Shadow Mir]

Titania's Boyd support takes 20 turns to get to an A, but only 11 with Rhys. That's a whole 9 chapters in which his support is helping more. Boyd might want Titania, but Titania probably doesn't want Boyd.

Kieran's support with Rhys is also faster than Marcia's by two chapters, but there's no reason he can't just take both of them (Oscar might want to wait for Tanith). He's only got three different people to support, so he'll want anything he can get.

In any case, Rhys would only "want" one of them, since Mia's starved for supports. Double fire means she gets +3 attack with an A, something she doesn't get from anyone else.

I said earlier, Titania and Rhys supporting isn't very good in terms of bonuses. Not only do they have to contend with the move gap, but the bonuses are also terrible. 15 hit at A on two high hit characters??? I'll pass. They aren't exactly going to have trouble hitting. Boyd, on the other hand, can benefit. And where did I say that Titania was getting an A with Boyd? Because I didn't.

Indeed Kieran's Rhys support is faster... but barely. Yay? And for the same bonuses as Marcia, who, unlike Rhys, doesn't force Kieran to slow down so that he can remain in support range. Also, why would Oscar want to wait to support Tanith over Kieran? At any rate, that's up to FOUR people that Rhys forces to slow down. Not good.

Granted, Mia's starved for supports, but she isn't exactly what I'd call impressive. Also, even if Rhys wants Titania or Kieran, they don't want him.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Richter Renard

[Momo]

I said earlier, Titania and Rhys supporting isn't very good in terms of bonuses. Not only do they have to contend with the move gap, but the bonuses are also terrible. 15 hit at A on two high hit characters??? I'll pass. They aren't exactly going to have trouble hitting. Boyd, on the other hand, can benefit. And where did I say that Titania was getting an A with Boyd? Because I didn't.

Titania mains axes. Axes in this game have near FE6 levels of hit, and Titania's skill (while high) can't compensate for that completely. She'd probably appreciate some extra hit from ol Rhys. It would also be in her best interest to stay in support range with Rhys, why wouldn't you do this if you had them support? The same problem also arises with Boyd, I don't know why you'd him over Rhys.

Indeed Kieran's Rhys support is faster... but barely. Yay? And for the same bonuses as Marcia, who, unlike Rhys, doesn't force Kieran to slow down so that he can remain in support range. Also, why would Oscar want to wait to support Tanith over Kieran? At any rate, that's up to FOUR people that Rhys forces to slow down. Not good.

Kieran's stuck with axes his entire first tier career, Oscar's 2.5 hit per level isn't going to help him. Oscar also might want Tanith for ridiculous Earth x Earth x Earth action. Admittedly he could go without it, but it'd be in Kieran's best interests, and not his.

Granted, Mia's starved for supports, but she isn't exactly what I'd call impressive. Also, even if Rhys wants Titania or Kieran, they don't want him.

Mia's Upper Mid, which is still pretty good. Rhys' supports all have the same theme, because he really doesn't need them (fire is an awful affinity for him). He's pretty much doing them entirely for the other person.

[Shadow Mir]

I said earlier, Titania and Rhys supporting isn't very good in terms of bonuses. Not only do they have to contend with the move gap, but the bonuses are also terrible. 15 hit at A on two high hit characters??? I'll pass. They aren't exactly going to have trouble hitting. Boyd, on the other hand, can benefit. And where did I say that Titania was getting an A with Boyd? Because I didn't.

Titania mains axes. Axes in this game have near FE6 levels of hit, and Titania's skill (while high) can't compensate for that completely. She'd probably appreciate some extra hit from ol Rhys. It would also be in her best interest to stay in support range with Rhys, why wouldn't you do this if you had them support? The same problem also arises with Boyd, I don't know why you'd him over Rhys.

Indeed Kieran's Rhys support is faster... but barely. Yay? And for the same bonuses as Marcia, who, unlike Rhys, doesn't force Kieran to slow down so that he can remain in support range. Also, why would Oscar want to wait to support Tanith over Kieran? At any rate, that's up to FOUR people that Rhys forces to slow down. Not good.

Kieran's stuck with axes his entire first tier career, Oscar's 2.5 hit per level isn't going to help him. Oscar also might want Tanith for ridiculous Earth x Earth x Earth action. Admittedly he could go without it, but it'd be in Kieran's best interests, and not his.

Granted, Mia's starved for supports, but she isn't exactly what I'd call impressive. Also, even if Rhys wants Titania or Kieran, they don't want him.

Mia's Upper Mid, which is still pretty good. Rhys' supports all have the same theme, because he really doesn't need them (fire is an awful affinity for him). He's pretty much doing them entirely for the other person.

Is it just me, or did you just own yourself? If axes have near FE6 levels of hit, which I have trouble believing, wouldn't that be a reason for Titania to support Boyd over Rhys? After all, as you yourself admitted, Rhys's supports are all one-way, and I'd argue that mutual benefit > one-way supports.

Again, Kieran has Marcia. Kieran supporting Rhys means either Kieran has to slow down to let Rhys catch up (bad) or go on without bonuses (also bad). Supporting Kieran with Marcia, on the other hand, means not having to worry about slowing down. Which means that your little Earth support triangle that you seem bent on recommending for Oscar isn't exactly in Kieran's best interest.

Even if Mia's Upper Mid on the tier list, I'm not so trusting as to buy that.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Richter Renard

[Momo]

Is it just me, or did you just own yourself? If axes have near FE6 levels of hit, which I have trouble believing, wouldn't that be a reason for Titania to support Boyd over Rhys? After all, as you yourself admitted, Rhys's supports are all one-way, and I'd argue that mutual benefit > one-way supports.

http://serenesforest.net/fe9/axe.htm

http://serenesforest.net/fe6/axe.htm

They're not quite as bad as 6 (lol hammer), but they're pretty close. You also said Boyd didn't need an A with Titania, meaning she's still available for an A. Hmm...

Again, Kieran has Marcia. Kieran supporting Rhys means either Kieran has to slow down to let Rhys catch up (bad) or go on without bonuses (also bad). Supporting Kieran with Marcia, on the other hand, means not having to worry about slowing down. Which means that your little Earth support triangle that you seem bent on recommending for Oscar isn't exactly in Kieran's best interest.

Kieran has 8 move, Rhys has 5. After promotion, Kieran has 9 move to Rhys' 6. Kieran only has to stay back a single space to get the bonuses, I don't think that's a big deal. Oscar's Kieran support is like Ike's Soren support, it helps the other more than it does them. Hit is about the last thing Oscar needs, why would he want Kieran?

Even if Mia's Upper Mid on the tier list, I'm not so trusting as to buy that.

Buying what? Rhys is definitely her best support (no one else gives attack). If both are in play, she'd be getting him.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I find Mist to be more useful than Rhys. Mist when promoted has better movement and can spam with magic swords.

[Shadow Mir]

Is it just me, or did you just own yourself? If axes have near FE6 levels of hit, which I have trouble believing, wouldn't that be a reason for Titania to support Boyd over Rhys? After all, as you yourself admitted, Rhys's supports are all one-way, and I'd argue that mutual benefit > one-way supports.

http://serenesforest.net/fe9/axe.htm

http://serenesforest.net/fe6/axe.htm

They're not quite as bad as 6 (lol hammer), but they're pretty close. You also said Boyd didn't need an A with Titania, meaning she's still available for an A. Hmm...

Again, Kieran has Marcia. Kieran supporting Rhys means either Kieran has to slow down to let Rhys catch up (bad) or go on without bonuses (also bad). Supporting Kieran with Marcia, on the other hand, means not having to worry about slowing down. Which means that your little Earth support triangle that you seem bent on recommending for Oscar isn't exactly in Kieran's best interest.

Kieran has 8 move, Rhys has 5. After promotion, Kieran has 9 move to Rhys' 6. Kieran only has to stay back a single space to get the bonuses, I don't think that's a big deal. Oscar's Kieran support is like Ike's Soren support, it helps the other more than it does them. Hit is about the last thing Oscar needs, why would he want Kieran?

Even if Mia's Upper Mid on the tier list, I'm not so trusting as to buy that.

Buying what? Rhys is definitely her best support (no one else gives attack). If both are in play, she'd be getting him.

And an A with Rhys is a pretty big waste compared to an A with Mist. Unless you STILL believe that Titania's better off with a partner who gives lolhit than one who she doesn't have to slow down for? And I still stand by mutual benefit supports > one-way supports such as Rhys's.

Because he doesn't have to worry about a move gap in Ike's case or have to go supportless for a good portion of the game in Tanith's case. And besides, double Earth is overkill.

I already admitted that Rhys is Mia's best support. And let's just say that I'm skeptical about Mia being pretty good in PoR.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Richter Renard

[Momo]

And an A with Rhys is a pretty big waste compared to an A with Mist. Unless you STILL believe that Titania's better off with a partner who gives lolhit than one who she doesn't have to slow down for? And I still stand by mutual benefit supports > one-way supports such as Rhys's.

Like I said, her supports are better, but people act as though Rhys' are bad. Considering his main job (healing) only benefits others, his supports doing the same doesn't really change much.

He gives his liiiiiiiiiiife

not for hooooooooooonor,

buuuuuuuuuut foooooooor yoooooooou

Because he doesn't have to worry about a move gap in Ike's case or have to go supportless for a good portion of the game in Tanith's case. And besides, double Earth is overkill.

Wha? There's still a move gap when Oscar is with Ike, and they're definitely their best supporters. You can also never have enough avoid, what can be better than taking zero damage?

I already admitted that Rhys is Mia's best support. And let's just say that I'm skeptical about Mia being pretty good in PoR.

Eh.

[Shadow Mir]

And an A with Rhys is a pretty big waste compared to an A with Mist. Unless you STILL believe that Titania's better off with a partner who gives lolhit than one who she doesn't have to slow down for? And I still stand by mutual benefit supports > one-way supports such as Rhys's.

Like I said, her supports are better, but people act as though Rhys' are bad. Considering his main job (healing) only benefits others, his supports doing the same doesn't really change much.

He gives his liiiiiiiiiiife

not for hooooooooooonor,

buuuuuuuuuut foooooooor yoooooooou

Because he doesn't have to worry about a move gap in Ike's case or have to go supportless for a good portion of the game in Tanith's case. And besides, double Earth is overkill.

Wha? There's still a move gap when Oscar is with Ike, and they're definitely their best supporters. You can also never have enough avoid, what can be better than taking zero damage?

I already admitted that Rhys is Mia's best support. And let's just say that I'm skeptical about Mia being pretty good in PoR.

Eh.

As for the second part of your post... At least I'm not the one trying to pass off Rhys as a better support option for Kieran than Oscar. I was saying that there was a move gap between Ike and Oscar. You misinterpreted that. Oscar/Kieran starts in Chapter 13 IIRC, and reaches A at Chapter 19 - which is before Oscar can even start supporting Tanith.

[Momo]

And Rhys/Kieran finishes a chapter later, but gives him better bonuses. Oscar also wants an A with Ike, so the B with Keiran/Rhys would be done at 16/17. Then Keiran's support with Marcia ends later than Rhys, meaning he could get the exact same bonuses, but sooner...

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I use both, but what puzzles me is how the healers in this game are upper mid (similar in RD) while in the gba games they're top/high.