Krom For Super Smas Bros. 4?

[Ciarre]

Before SSB4 was announced people always had "Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lyn" in their lists even though it was painfully obvious they'd never picked up a FE game before. So yeah, I think 3 FE characters won't be too much of a stretch.

[Rewjeo]

Also, Krom/Chrome could end up very different from anyone else so far. May I remind Ike was originally the rapier wielding Paris?

[dondon151]

"Clone" characters only exist because the players are too casual too look beyond the similarities.

SSBM had a couple of outstanding examples, but Fox/Falco and CF/Ganon play very differently.

[Crimson Red]

Doubt it because

- they have no idea how well-received the game will be in Japan

- above, but for North America, assuming the game even makes it here

- he couldn't be overly different from Ike or Marth as Chrome is a sword-user as have been all other FE characters, and I think they've learned not to use clones as of Melee (similarities = yes, clones = no, and even then they don't need to add a 3rd sword-user for FE)

I am also guessing that Liz's role will be more or less like that of Lilina's but boosted a little bit, or perhaps like Lyn's in Eliwood's/Hector's story (another main character who causes a game over upon their death but isn't -THE- main character). This is my guess of course, if Liz turns out to be a really significant character than it's possible she'll add to the small female cast of the Smash Bros. series...

I also think that it makes sense to keep Marth (derp) and Ike (people are so used to him and he's so well-known now the reaction brought over by NOT including him would be worse than Roy's, I think). As someone mentioned if they're making this a sequel with more than Brawl than they should add a 3rd character to rep FE...

It'll probably always be Marth + most recent Fire Emblem game protagonist. That's how it was for Melee and Brawl.

While I see your point we have such limited data to base it off of. Right after Melee I doubt people said "hey they included Marth the first Fire Emblem guy and the guy from the most recent Fire Emblem, Roy!" and then had predictions that Ike would be included next for Brawl. Maybe a few weirdos who think too hard about this but IMO the statement you made would be totally thrown off whack if say, Ephraim made it in instead of Ike. Thus I think it's not supported very well because removing one piece can make the whole foundation of that statement fall (whereas if what you said had been the case for 4-5 games, one inconsistency could be ignored etc.).

[Phoenix Wright]

Doubt it because

- they have no idea how well-received the game will be in Japan

- above, but for North America, assuming the game even makes it here

- he couldn't be overly different from Ike or Marth as Chrome is a sword-user as have been all other FE characters, and I think they've learned not to use clones as of Melee (similarities = yes, clones = no, and even then they don't need to add a 3rd sword-user for FE)

SSB4 won't be out for at least three years. Fire Emblem 3DS will be out by then, if it's coming out at all for the US.

Well, my personal argument is Ike will get the boot to make room for Krom, or the next main protagonist for the latest FE out.

I also think that it makes sense to keep Marth (derp) and Ike (people are so used to him and he's so well-known now the reaction brought over by NOT including him would be worse than Roy's, I think). As someone mentioned if they're making this a sequel with more than Brawl than they should add a 3rd character to rep FE...

I think FE should have three characters, but is it anywhere near popular enough?

While I see your point we have such limited data to base it off of. Right after Melee I doubt people said "hey they included Marth the first Fire Emblem guy and the guy from the most recent Fire Emblem, Roy!" and then had predictions that Ike would be included next for Brawl. Maybe a few weirdos who think too hard about this but IMO the statement you made would be totally thrown off whack if say, Ephraim made it in instead of Ike. Thus I think it's not supported very well because removing one piece can make the whole foundation of that statement fall (whereas if what you said had been the case for 4-5 games, one inconsistency could be ignored etc.).

People thought Roy were Eliwood IIRC. It was chaos, in that sense. I agree that it's somewhat pure luck if they actually guessed Ike would get in, because Americans never got to see Roy in a game, unless they played FE7 just to see him as a child (sucks for Euro kids :D). However, it has happened two times in a row now, and I think it's a legitimate guess. Sure, if Ephraim was actually in Brawl my theory would be moot, but he's not. Ike is, and that is why I think my idea is logical. Saying "probably always" does seem a little odd, so I'll just say there's a large chance (in my opinion) that they'll use the same "formula," if one is used at all.

[Mister Cold]

IMO the statement you made would be totally thrown off whack if say, Ephraim made it in instead of Ike.

I kinda wish he did.

atleast Ephraim isn't another Sword user, no.

He wields a Lance and so far, is the only character I know who can 2turn/Solo the endgame boss :S (Ike might be close in FE9)

[Phoenix Wright]

I kinda wish he did.

atleast Ephraim isn't another Sword user, no.

He wields a Lance and so far, is the only character I know who can 2turn/Solo the endgame boss :S (Ike might be close in FE9)

Roy can one-round the final boss...

Edited September 22, 2011 by Phoenix Wright

[Hazuki]

Roy can one-round the final boss...

Marth can also do that to the final boss in Book 1 of FE3. I'm not sure about the others with Marth, though...

[Celice]

You can one-turn him pretty easily with the triangle attack and some nice units equipped with Dragon Killers. Niconico has some videos on it.

[Mousefire]

I kinda wish he did.

atleast Ephraim isn't another Sword user, no.

He wields a Lance and so far, is the only character I know who can 2turn/Solo the endgame boss :S (Ike might be close in FE9)

[Tryphen]

Seeing as Roy was planned for SSBB but was cut let Mewtwo due to Sonic, that and Sakurai is a FE fan; chances are that FE will get 3 characters:

Marth

Ike

Krom

But Krom does have rivalry from Roy and possiblely Shiida for the slot. This is what SWF is spectulating.

Also shouldn't this go in the SSB thread?

Edited September 23, 2011 by j04353

[Bryan]

Seeing as Roy was planned for SSBB but was cut let Mewtwo due to Sonic, that and Sakurai is a FE fan; chances are that FE will get 3 characters:

Marth

Ike

Krom

But Krom does have rivalry from Roy and possiblely Shiida for the slot. This is what SWF is spectulating.

Also shouldn't this go in the SSB thread?

I don't think Ike will be in. They'll probably make another FE Game, as others have pointed out, before SSB4. If there is three, it will probably be Marth/Krom/Lord (From FE14.) Who knows.

[Mirron]

Ike is decently popular. Maybe not in Japan, but at least he is in the US. No telling what will be done. I definitely think that we'll see three, but, with any luck, they'll include a magic wielder and/or villain of the series so it's not just three Lords. Wouldn't mind if they used another weapon, but the only Lords that are really associated with another weapon type are Hector (Axes), Ephraim (Spear), and Micaiah (Light), and none of them are particularly likely.

[Celice]

Considering that Ike isn't a clone character, unlike Roy, it's more likely that Roy will be shafted in exchange to retain Ike. This is if they want to keep Marth at all. In all likeliness, I'd probably see Ike kept and the two others dropped, just to keep up with advancing.

[DragonBladeSniper]

Well is anyone even sure that FE13 will come out before SSB4? It might take a while. But it'd be nice to hear WE LIKE KROM

[Bryan]

Well is anyone even sure that FE13 will come out before SSB4? It might take a while. But it'd be nice to hear WE LIKE KROM

FE13 is supposed to come out in spring of next year or so, while SSB4 isn't coming out for 1~2 years. (Please correct me if I am sightly off.)

[Jyosua]

I'd rather Megaman be put in as a 3rd party character, than FE get a new character. I also still want Roy back, but it'll never happen. If they put in another FE character, Ike will likely be removed. And I like Ike.

[Randoman]

I am insanely sure that Marth will be staying in the next Smash Bros., no matter what, especially given that Ness has been in all three Smash Bros. games and Earthbound is nowhere near as well known or prevalent as Fire Emblem. Besides, he's the first FE lord, he's been in the most FE games, and Japanese polls themselves placed Marth as the #1 wanted character in Melee. He also has built up quite the reputation for himself internationally in the Smash Bros. series alone.

On topic, I'm really sure that Krom will be appearing in the next Smash Bros., assuming another FE (that he isn't the main character of) doesn't come out before SSB4's roster is decided on. Melee and Brawl have followed the pattern of "Marth and Most Recent Fire Emblem Lord" when it comes to Fire Emblem characters, so I'm assuming it'll be the same here. As for Ike staying, I'd say it could go either way, but with a slightly better chance of him not appearing. I suppose that also depends on how many characters in general will be added to SSB4, and whether it'll make sense for the Fire Emblem series to gain another character slot.

[Crimson Red]

I still have to stick with my feeling that Ike won't be removed. I really think that Roy being removed was a one-time deal: there were just so many reasons to remove Roy and there are so many reasons not to remove Ike, the way I see it.

Reasons to remove Roy (note that there are counters to some of these points that I am aware of, I am just listing some reasons):

- Japanese

- confusion between him and Eliwood

- no intention of making a remake of the game at any point, and thus confusion as to who the heck he is

- not wanting to have 3 FE characters, especially all sword users, with Ike (who took the stage of both FE9 AND FE10) being the new character that they wanted to add

- removing a "clone" character

- Roy was added for advertisement purposes; with that out of the way the original motivation for adding him has been removed

Reasons not to remove Ike:

- in two games

- both games are more recent than some other games i.e. the GBA games and before...*

- has English voice acting already

- well-known already from Brawl; don't want to have people complaining about him being removed like people complained about Roy

- isn't a clone/is very unique

- already has a moveset etc., doesn't require as much innovation as a totally new character

*essentially we can expect to see characters from newer games throwing out everything before FE9 as out of the running, leaving the head of FE9/10, Ike, the head of FE11/12, Marth, and then the new games... I don't expect to see Hector or Ephraim in, they're too old, not recent enough, they don't have any precedence, and I think precedence is an important thing just as recentness is--Mewtwo and Pichu and Roy and Dr. Mario were "old" by the time Brawl came out in that they weren't as popular or from as recent games... so they got removed... but for the more memorable characters--Mewtwo and Roy--people complained and the fans conveyed their discontent with their removal because those characters WERE still popular even if they weren't old... by the same logic even if Ike isn't super recent he still had enough of an impact/influence/name for himself during his time that I think that he will be brought back as to not displease all the Ike fans we know exist...

[/rant]

[Alvis]

Okay, there seems to be a lot of misconceptions in general about Smash Bros. and Fire Emblem in relation to Smash Bros.

First off, development on Smash 4 has not even begun. Sakurai, the creator and director for the Smash Bros. series, originally planned to begin development on Smash 4 this October. However, since Kid Icarus Uprising has been delayed, it is likely that development on Smash 4 won't begin until next year. Sakurai has stated that until development on Uprising is completed he won't begin work on Smash 4.

Sakurai mentioned on Sora's (Sakurai's development team) official site that development would take up to three years to complete on Smash 4. With this in mind, Smash 4 could very well not be released until the first half of 2015.

This is important to keep in mind because Chrome/Krom could very much be irrelevant to Fire Emblem by the time Smash 4 is actually released. However, it is also important to note that most of Brawl's roster was finalized by the end of 2006 (the exception being Sonic, and there will more on that later). So, if Sakurai finalizes most of his roster during the first half of 2013, Chrome could very well be on Smash 4's roster.

However, Chrome has several other obstacles facing him. One is how well his game is received. Traditionally, Gaiden-like Fire Emblems have been received more poorly than more traditional installments of the Fire Emblem series. If Chrome's game is poorly received, then that will be a big stumbling block for his placement within the roster of Smash Bros. A second obstacle that Chrome faces is whether Sakurai even wants a Fire Emblem newcomer for Smash Bros. If Sakurai believes a Fire Emblem newcomer is not necessary, then Chrome won't happen.

Okay, with that in mind, let's get into some details that I think are important in regards to speculation pertaining Fire Emblem in Smash Bros.

On Sakurai and Fire Emblem:

Sakurai has called himself a big fan of the Fire Emblem series. He has gone as far as to be the interviewer for the Iwata Asks feature for Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon. Sakurai has stated that his favorite character in the series is Nabarl.

On Marth in Smash Bros.:

Marth is the face of Fire Emblem in Japan. Fire Emblem Monsho no Nazo is to Fire Emblem as Ocarina of Time is to Zelda or Star Fox 64 is to Star Fox. FE3 is by far the most popular game in the series in Japan, and sold by far the most copies. Marth was also the main lord for four games in the series (two games prior to Melee). Marth was also by far the most requested character to represent the Fire Emblem series in a poll that Sakurai had prior to beginning development on Melee (by comparison, Celice got only four votes, while Sigurd and Leaf only got two votes each).

On Roy in Smash Bros.:

Contrary to popular belief, Roy was not placed in at the request of Intelligent Systems, but rather it was Sakurai's idea. Sakurai said that placing in Roy was his idea and that he did it primarily to promote "the series as a whole."

On Ike in Smash Bros:

Sakurai stated in an interview with Famitsu that Ike got in Smash Bros. because he wanted Fire Emblem to have a new character from a more recent installment and he did not know who to put in. Ike was then placed in at the suggestion of those at Intelligent Systems. It is important to keep in mind that FE9 was the worst selling game in the series in Japan (yes, even selling more poorly than Thracia 776). The only three games in the series to sell below 200K in Japan were FE9, FE5, and FE10.

On Roy being cut from Brawl:

Mewtwo and Roy being cut was likely the result of time constraints. Sakurai has gone on the record to say that he intended more characters to be in Brawl's roster but was not able to implement them due to time constraints.

Those who peered into the game's coding have found character folders for these characters:

- Mewtwo

- Roy

- Dr. Mario

- Dixie Kong

- Plusle & Minun

- Toon Zelda

- Toon Sheik

They are often referred to as being the "Forbidden 7" by the Smash community. There are known reasons as to why some of these characters were dropped. For Dixie Kong, Sakurai mentioned in a Famitsu interview that he originally intended for Diddy & Dixie to be a duo when fighting, however, his team was unable to get team play mechanics to work for them, so Dixie was scrapped. This may have also been the reason that Plusle & Minun was scrapped as well, since they would have utilized a team-based moveset of some sort (however, there are many who also believe that their team play may have been more akin to the Ice Climbers than what Sakurai had planned for Diddy & Dixie). As for Dr. Mario, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik, the probable reason as to why they were dropped were possibly Sakurai thinking they did not differentiate themselves enough to be placed on Brawl's roster (as well as for time constraint reasons).

Most Smash fans believe that Sakurai's original plan for the final roster of Brawl was to include Mewtwo and Roy included as playable characters. This is inferred from a file listing from one of Sakurai's scrapped features for Brawl, unique victory themes for every character on Brawl's roster (except Wolf).

snd_bgm_Z01_FMARIO

snd_bgm_Z02_FDONKEY

snd_bgm_Z03_FLINK

snd_bgm_Z04_FSAMUS

snd_bgm_Z05_FYOSSY

snd_bgm_Z06_FKIRBY

snd_bgm_Z07_FFOX

snd_bgm_Z08_FPIKACHU

snd_bgm_Z09_FLUIGI

snd_bgm_Z10_FCAPTAIN

snd_bgm_Z11_FNESS

snd_bgm_Z12_FKUOPA

snd_bgm_Z13_FPEACH

snd_bgm_Z14_FZELDA

snd_bgm_Z15_FSHEIK

snd_bgm_Z16_FICHICLIMBER

snd_bgm_Z17_FMARTH

snd_bgm_Z18_FGAMEWATCH

snd_bgm_Z19_FFALCO

snd_bgm_Z20_FGANON

snd_bgm_Z21_FWARIO

snd_bgm_Z22_FMETAKNIGHT

snd_bgm_Z23_FPITT

snd_bgm_Z24_FZEROSAMUS

snd_bgm_Z25_FPIKMIN

snd_bgm_Z26_FLUCAS

snd_bgm_Z27_FDIDDY

snd_bgm_Z28_FPOKETRAINER

snd_bgm_Z32_FDEDEDE

snd_bgm_Z33_FLICARIO

snd_bgm_Z34_FIKE

snd_bgm_Z35_FROBOT

snd_bgm_Z37_FPURIN

snd_bgm_Z38_FMYU2

snd_bgm_Z39_FROY

snd_bgm_Z41_FTOONLINK

snd_bgm_Z46_FSNAKE

snd_bgm_Z47_FSONIC

This listing showed that Mewtwo and Roy were kept on the roster long after the other characters for the Forbidden 7 had been dropped. The conventional wisdom is that Sonic being placed in so late in the game's development, that development resources had to be allocated from the final five characters that were in development (Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Roy, Toon Link, and Wolf) toward Sonic (since unlike the other five, there was no prior planning for his moveset). Jigglypuff was placed on a higher priority due to her seniority in the series, while Toon Link and Wolf were kept because they were new characters, and Sakurai wanted to implement as many new characters as possible. It was thus that Mewtwo and Roy were dropped as a result of priorities and time constraints.

It is also important to note that Roy and Mewtwo are very popular Smash Bros. characters in Japan, both ranking in the top five most popular Melee characters in polls there (and in many cases, the Top 3 spots). They also seem to be the most wanted "newcomers" (I place this into quotations since Mewtwo and Roy are technically not new characters to the series) for Smash 4 by Japanese Smash fans. There is a lot of bitterness over Roy and Mewtwo being cut, so much that the Japanese fanbase is overly pessimistic in regards to cuts for Brawl's roster. There is also a large demand to see Mewtwo and Roy return by the Western Smash Bros. fanbase.

[Blademaster!]

Earthbound is nowhere near as well known or prevalent as Fire Emblem.

Prevalent? Yes, as there are only three Mother games and 13 FE games.

Well known? The Mother series likely has around as much fame in Japan as FE does, and in the case of the U.S.A., the Mother series is VASTLY more popular than FE. The Mother series probably has the biggest cult of any video game series out there, and Nintendo of America, and likely Nintendo of Japan, are both very well aware of this.

[Nitro]

But I want Ephraim in the new SSB! T_T

Oh well, guess Krom will be alright, lets just hope that he has some own moves and is not a copy of Roy/Marth/Ike xD

[Jyosua]

Wow, Alvis' posting was rather enlightening. I was not aware of the fact they were even planned for, or how far in development they made it. Maybe they'll return.

[Mirron]

Honestly, I think in the US FE is probably more popular. Earthbound may have a heavy cult following, but so did FE before it was released here, and it's only grown since then.

And I think the important points are made. For the most part, Krom's odds are good. Unless his game is hated in Japan/US (though Japan is more important for these purposes), he's above Roy (and may even be above him still, could get a sequel). Whether we get two or three, and if we only got two if he'd be above Ike is the hard part. But considering how badly FE9/10 did, his odds are good.

[Celice]

It actually didn't. The big cusp of the fandom accumulated in a small group hoping for FE6 to be localized. This eventually emerged into FESS, but not before Sigurd's Pants came out. It wasn't a very large group at first which banded together in anticipation for FE6. Before that, it had a following comparative to any other non-localized series of the time.

Meanwhile, the Earthbound series was freaking huge not only long before that, but long since as well, as far as a cult-following is concerned. Fire Emblem lost that cult following with the steady flow of games--it's now just a series with fans for American and European fans. Meanwhile Earthbound continues to accumulate a mass cult--its seclusion breeds the interest.