FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[Da Bear]

Does one need to be?

Libra's support bonuses aren't as good, he doesn't double nearly as often, and he can't open chests.

Needless sandbagging on the Tiki part; she'll do just as well with either Anna or Say'ri. If either, Anna is probably preferable for the +1 move. Considering the only competition for a Tiki support is a low C tier unit, I think Anna can grab her just fine. Until then, it's not difficult to just give her a +Str/Def bot like Kellam or Cherche.

No, when did I imply one did?

Libra's support bonuses are better when he's building supports because of the larger boosts... the ability to build supports is very important. Anna's inability to do so is a large minus to her supporting ability. I'm pointing out that Libra's heals and rescues are more effective I'm not saying anything about doors. If Anna joins with someone outclassing her healing ability than her healing isn't useful because You don't need more than one healer in the vast majority of situations same with rescuing.

Forgot Anna's move bonus... I agree she's better for Tiki.

Edited May 6, 2013 by bearclaw13

[General Horace]

I'd rather have the flat out trickster bonuses for the speed and +move. The war monk bonuses libra provides are kinda bad. I also think Anna is too high, but so is Libra in my opinion.

edit: turns out im just saying what RFoF said anyway

Edited May 6, 2013 by General Horace

[Da Bear]

I'd rather have the flat out trickster bonuses for the speed and +move. The war monk bonuses libra provides are kinda bad. I also think Anna is too high, but so is Libra in my opinion.

edit: turns out im just saying what RFoF said anyway

I think they're both too high and I think Gaius is too low sadly arguing both at the same time is leading to me sounding like I'm saying Gaius > Anna when I think they're extremely close with the edge slightly towards Anna...

[Florete]

Eh, Gaius might be too low, though I've never seen much of anything great from him myself. I find there's generally always someone better than him no matter what you may want him for. I see at least a full tier gap between him and Anna.

[Folt]

Anna has enough Magic to get the job done, and because Thief utilites have been reduced to unlocking doors and chests, she can do every utility thing that Gaius can. Anna can also make use of the Levin Sword which is the most common 2 range sword (but not that common), gives Speed and Move as bonuses if you pair her up with someone (with or without Supports), and gets access to Lucky Seven which gives her a +20 bonus to hit and avoid for 7 turns: 7 turns is pretty much all you need to clear most maps on a brisk pace. There's also the fact that while Gaius makes a better Assassin, Anna makes a much better Trickster and starts off with decent bases, and with the rules of this tier list being as they are, having a Trickster around is much better than having an Assassin around, because the Trickster is more worth to have in the main story for its healing, rescuing, and door/chest unlocking, than the Assassin is for its fighting skill.

[Ema Skye]

Anna is kinda useful with Levin Swords, but since you really only get one, she's not that great for offense, not to mention Valm kills her unless she reclasses (which isn't a terrible idea beyond dealing with E Tomes, though with solid magic and speed stats at that point it is totally workable if you desire). Would probably move her down to B tier though.

Don't really have too many fond memories of Libra from when I use him, mostly because he's getting doubled in Valm without a pairup partner, and unlike other units with this problem (N.O.W.I), he lacks the bulk and the offense to really be comparable to most of your team at this point. +3 Str and +3 Mag from pair up is nice, but I rarely find both being worth it since most units are just using lances/axes or tomes. Due to that, I'd rather deploy someone like Henry who gets me the same magic gain, but also gives defense and movement. I find it really hard to see him above Cherche right now, since he's a really lame offensive unit, and lacks the supportive capabilities of units like Gregor and Gaius. Rescue range is nice, but he can't go too far out since his durability is so poor in Valm.

As for Gaius, I think he's fine where he is. He's pretty much a worse Lon'qu or Gregor when it comes to supporting, although he does give +Mov and can open chests (even though there's like 10 all game).

Also thinking that Tharja could stand to go up to A tier right now, but I'll explain more when I get closer to finishing my run.

[Da Bear]

I would like Anna down to bottom of A or top of B when we get the changes SDS was talking about.. and doofina your misunderstanding the power of move boosting through pair up it's extremely useful because of foot units having so little move.. almost necessary to keep up with mounted units... he can support as well making him quite useful as a pair up bot.

What are some thoughts on Stahl by other people I've already said that I would like him above Lucina and Chrom.. maybe Frederick as well what are some other opinions? Because no one else seems to be saying stuff about him.

[The Fir Coat]

Anna belongs in A tier. Her combat is good enough, her bases are great, she can heal and get chests so you don't have to use Gaius's terrible ass and she can reclass to Sage eventually if you so desire. The fact that she only supports MU isn't a huge deal when when best contributions are out of combat and she can gain EXP from using staves. Even when she doesn't support people she can still give +5 speed and +1 Mov among other bonuses.

[General Horace]

Healing isn't a big plus in awakening.

Anna's combat is bad once Valm hits, and her durability is forever terrible. I'm not too sure about Stahl being over Chrom, but Lucina for sure. Frederick should stay above him in my opinion.

[Da Bear]

Anna belongs in A tier. Her combat is good enough, her bases are great, she can heal and get chests so you don't have to use Gaius's terrible ass and she can reclass to Sage eventually if you so desire. The fact that she only supports MU isn't a huge deal when when best contributions are out of combat and she can gain EXP from using staves. Even when she doesn't support people she can still give +5 speed and +1 Mov among other bonuses.

You lost me at good combat.

The rest of your post makes sense except how she can level with staves. Staves give horrid EXP and rescue staves are very limited until chapter 12 which is when her combat has become bad.

@Horace I agree that he might not be above Frederick but could you explain Chrom? He does kind of poorly from chapter 10ish on.. at least from what I've discovered.

My main thing is I find that Stahl > Sully and maybe Panne but not Frederick who's below Sully and Panne. Let me explain these I know you agree with Stahl > Sully but they're pretty close. Panne is all availability Stahl has much more of it. But Frederick seems to do what he does: tank. and he does it better early. later on Stahl probably > Frederick but that's post investment.. S tier is kind of a mess..

Edited May 6, 2013 by bearclaw13

[The Fir Coat]

I was talking more about as a pocket unit that can switch-in to hit stuff with the Levin Sword. She isn't killing tons of stuff, no, so good enough was overselling it a bit.

[Da Bear]

I was talking more about as a pocket unit that can switch-in to hit stuff with the Levin Sword. She isn't killing tons of stuff, no, so good enough was overselling it a bit.

There are so few levin swords it's not that likely...

Also I'm wondering if we should tier Wyvern!Panne and Taguel!Panne separately because they're completely different... almost like tiering with transfers for RD. An early second seal changes her game immensely.

[General Horace]

You lost me at good combat.

The rest of your post makes sense except how she can level with staves. Staves give horrid EXP and rescue staves are very limited until chapter 12 which is when her combat has become bad.

@Horace I agree that he might not be above Frederick but could you explain Chrom? He does kind of poorly from chapter 10ish on.. at least from what I've discovered.

My main thing is I find that Stahl > Sully and maybe Panne but not Frederick who's below Sully and Panne. Let me explain these I know you agree with Stahl > Sully but they're pretty close. Panne is all availability Stahl has much more of it. But Frederick seems to do what he does: tank. and he does it better early. later on Stahl probably > Frederick but that's post investment.. S tier is kind of a mess..

Sully needs to drop, there no question there. I have no idea why she's even at the top of S. i don't know if it's just my luck with Chrom, but he's a solid unit all game in my experience, and he's better than Stahl in the earlygame on the offence side of things anyway. Panne is without a doubt better than Sully in my mind as well, putting her above the two cavaliers.

There's really no reason not to make Panne a wyvern rider if you're using her, you have two second seals by Chapter 8's end, odds are if you're using her, she's getting one of them.

Edited May 6, 2013 by General Horace

[Da Bear]

Sully needs to drop, there no question there. I have no idea why she's even at the top of S. i don't know if it's just my luck with Chrom, but he's a solid unit all game in my experience, and he's better than Stahl in the earlygame on the offence side of things anyway. Panne is without a doubt better than Sully in my mind as well, putting her above the two cavaliers.

There's really no reason not to make Panne a wyvern rider if you're using her, you have two second seals by Chapter 8's end, odds are if you're using her, she's getting one of them.

I guess but Stahl's chapters before Panne and before the second seals are pretty big when he continues to do well throughout the entire game.

Edit: Sully is where she is because someone successfully argued Sully > Panne and so she went ahead of her

Edited May 6, 2013 by bearclaw13

[RNG Princess]

Can Anna can gain some momentum if you seal her and turn her into a mage and then promote her to sage? Her bases would be higher than Tharja, she joins a map later and would gain tomes at an earlier point to build her rank. Actually I think i'm going to try this.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Maiden_of_Emblem

[Da Bear]

Can Anna can gain some momentum if you seal her and turn her into a mage and then promote her to sage? Her bases would be higher than Tharja, she joins a map later and would gain tomes at an earlier point to build her rank. Actually I think i'm going to try this.

It's possible but it requires a second seal.

[Florete]

My main thing is I find that Stahl > Sully and maybe Panne

No. Sully has offense in the bag over Stahl and durability plenty good enough for Hard mode, including a moderately good Res stat as a Paladin. She's plenty good in her base class but can also re-class to Wyvern and be great there; Stahl has no such options. She's also the second best support choice for Chrom (after female Avatar), further hurting Stahl's case.

Sully is right where she should be. She was already proven better than Panne and there's just no way Stahl's slow ass is beating her.

Can Anna can gain some momentum if you seal her and turn her into a mage and then promote her to sage? Her bases would be higher than Tharja, she joins a map later and would gain tomes at an earlier point to build her rank. Actually I think i'm going to try this.

Worse move and support bonuses, no staves for 10 levels and no Lucky Seven ever, unless you wait until she's level 5 first but by then the viability of her as a Mage is hitting rock bottom. Try it, but the usefulness sounds dubious to me.

[Interceptor]

EXP gain is also going to be a factor for Anna. Once you get to a promoted class, the cumulative level tax can get pretty heinous, even going to a tier 1 class. IIRC, she's going to be getting EXP at level one Mage as if she were ten levels higher, at the very least.

[General Horace]

I don't understand why Sully's not below Chrom. Their bases and growths are remarkeably similar, (just look at them, the only differences are like 5% strength and 10% luck in Chrom's favour for 10% magic for sully) yet there are three units seperating them. Not to mention Chrom has Dual Strike plus, which further expands on his leads over Sully. He can reclass to Cavalier for 1-2 range, or promo and take an arms scroll for it. While Sully has it exclusively it is in all honesty pretty useless against the wyvern riders and other earlygame enemies, due to wtd and mediocre strength. Chrom's earlygame offence is a lot better against the wyverns too because of Falchion.

edit: fail grammar

edit2: Sully's offence is actually probably worse than stahls, people seem to overestimate enemy AS in this game, and he crushes her in strength.

Edited May 6, 2013 by General Horace

[Florete]

>Already Cavalier.

>Discipline (if Chrom doesn't re-class he has to take more time and/or resources for ranks Sully already has).

>More Move.

>Better support list (including Chrom, for whom she's possibly the best candidate).

>Better Pair Up bonuses.

>Better re-class options (Cavalier = Cavalier, Wyvern > Lord)

<Falchion and Rapiers.

How does Chrom beat Sully again?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire

[Zkirsche]

already proven better than Panne

Strong words for a flawed post. I agree with Sully > Panne though, that post does highlight how mid-game the two are fairly equal but Sully existing for more chapters is key. Panne has the advantage a lot longer than that post would have you believe though, the two should be wyvern lords for much of the game, and Panne gains exp slightly faster so should overtake but that's minor. Also there's no steel lance by chapter 6, so Panne is much closer to Sully even then. Thus I think it's a bit strong to say "proven" as it's still fairly up to opinion and I wouldn't like to see the two seperated by much.

Btw I'm currently logging enemy stats as I play. Progress is slow but I'm at chapter 7.

Edit: Isn't avatar the best candidate for Chrom?

Edited May 6, 2013 by kirsche

[Interceptor]

I don't understand why Sully's not below Chrom.

It's because Chrom is a bag of mediocre. His only hope for 1-2 range is Cavalier, which takes away Rapiers, and also costs the team a Second Seal (at some point in this thread, people will properly take this into account). He's also a better Support unit than a Lead unit in a lot of cases, which is a double-edged sword for him.

[Da Bear]

It's because Chrom is a bag of mediocre. His only hope for 1-2 range is Cavalier, which takes away Rapiers, and also costs the team a Second Seal (at some point in this thread, people will properly take this into account). He's also a better Support unit than a Lead unit in a lot of cases, which is a double-edged sword for him.

I agree with this but I still want Chrom over Lucina...

[General Horace]

>Already Cavalier.

>Discipline (if Chrom doesn't re-class he has to take more time and/or resources for ranks Sully already has).

>More Move.

>Better support list (including Chrom, for whom she's possibly the best candidate).

>Better Pair Up bonuses.

>Better re-class options (Cavalier = Cavalier, Wyvern > Lord)

<Falchion and Rapiers.

How does Chrom beat Sully again?

Chrom has better skills and a superior earlygame, where movement is hardly an issue, and almost all of his good pairup partners (Frederick, Sumia, Sully) are mounted, it's not a huge deal. Support list is superfluous, there's no way Chrom isn't getting a support partner (if you want Lucina to resemble anything anyway), and all his support options aside from Maribelle and Olivia are strong. His pair up bonuses become the same if he's a Paladin, and anything with +speed isn't a bad thing (allthough I do concede that the bonuses Sully gives are better).

re interceptor: Sure he costs a second seal, but you have three by chapter 12, you shouldn't need more than that, if you do, it's probably your own fault for not looking ahead. I don't see why people consider him to be a better support unit, his partner still benefits from dual strike plus and his stats are as solid as anyone elses on your team.

also the panne vs sully arguement wasn't really much of an arguement, some people posted in response and were just hand waived or flat out ignored. Sully doens't contribute a whole lot in the earlygame, considering units like Chrom, Avatar, Frederick, Sumia and Stahl all do better there. In my mind Frederick should be the top of S, but I'm pretty sure i'm alone in that regard as well.

Edited May 6, 2013 by General Horace

[Sol Hiryu]

In my mind, Lucina could probably fall out of S, but it's really contingent on if she really doesn't make that big an impact even with Veteran. Being absent for half the game is not a good thing.

Regarding Chrom, Interceptor already made the point that he's a much better support unit than actual lead unit. None of the skills he gets directly benefit him unless he's supporting, which screws with his EXP if you keep him there all the time, and his stats are okay but not anything amazing. Being swordlocked for most of his existence until he grabs a Second Seal is also bad.

He's actually a great pair up unit, but that alone doesn't make him better than anyone in S, except maybe Lucina.

I also agree with Sully > Panne, but I don't think the case for it is as solid as people say.