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Not to appear conservative or anything but I doubt there would be nearly as much controversy surrounding Kavanaugh if he were liberal. Ford no longer wanting to pursue allegations also seems rather suspect. 

This being a big win for Trump is definitely not a good thing however. This means no more healthcare, right? 

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"Even if a hazard at work has killed multiple people, your employer can't be fined if you get killed. (SeaWorld v. Perez)

American corporations can't be held accountable for their human rights abuses overseas. (Doe v. Exxon Mobil)

Police can install a GPS on your vehicle without a warrant. (United States v. Jones)

The NSA can collect any data about you they want, even if that data collection exceeds what was authorized by Congress. (Klayman v. Obama)

American citizens can be flown to other counties to be tortured. (Kiyemba v. Obama)"

Wow those opinions are... not good

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5 hours ago, eclipse said:

It's called "suck it up and work together".  Which is something that's being rapidly lost.

I don't know how much Fox News you've listened to recently (hopefully none), but their tactics are disgusting.  It's opinion pieces disguised as fact.  But they have a viewership, which means that they're doing something right. . .even if it isn't right by my standards.  Stuff like that is what's fueling this divide IMO.

That's the primary thing, they're the only big news network on that's geared towards conservatives so that audience will tune in and be subjected to a mixture of facts, opinions, conspiracy theories and hiding information that makes their side looks bad so this audience has to try and distinguish between reality and the narrative the network wants to push to keep them on their side. They also give "Prime Time" slots that people tune in the most to those pundits that are the most guilty in terms of propaganda such as Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham and Sean Hannity. Remember, on the day that Michael Cohen was raided, Tucker Carlson was talking about Sex crazed pandas to hide that, Fox and Friends discussed the Tooth Fairy when Cohen pleaded guilty and a study back in 2012 concluded that you're less informed if you watch Fox News as opposed to no news.

The reality is that there IS a number of people who are just terrible human beings who want to hinder the civil rights movement because they desire to maintain their dominance, in other words the idea of whites and people of color being treated equally is oppressive to them. Fox News and folks on the Alt-right now how to speak to their fear and hatred and abuse the 1st amendment to turn them against people who have no ill-will towards them. Fox News is literally a bunch of rich people perpetuating the tactic of a previous "Trump" we had as President.

 

2 hours ago, Time the Crestfallen said:

With all this having happened, I honestly don't understand why Judges have a lifetime appointment in the United States. Someone explain this to me, it seems like such a stupid fucking rule.

Because of how Article 3, Section 1 of the constitution is interpreted:

Quote

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.

People who argue FOR lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court say that the underlined implies they can hold office indefinitely so long as they're not impeached. They also argue that the lifetime appointment is for job security so they can make their decisions free from public or political pressures and the last bit about compensation suggesting that they should be safe even if they make unpopular decisions. 

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35 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

Not to appear conservative or anything but I doubt there would be nearly as much controversy surrounding Kavanaugh if he were liberal.

1. If Kavanaugh were a Liberal, he wouldn't have been nominated in the first place

2. Let's pretend for a moment that Kavanaugh IS a liberal and Trump nominated him. GOP Donors would force McConnel and the like to deny the confirmation progress like they did with Merrick Garland.

3. Speaking of Merrick Garland, one argument the Republicans made was that Garland wouldn't be a fair and impartial judge and yet... the GOP was only interested in getting a partisan operative for their side installed because to their base, it would look like a win that would motivate their voters and it would leave a "legacy" should they lose the house in November like they're expecting. By hiding all the information regarding the Kavanaugh investigation, they're doing a good job of making it look like it was just a politically motivated hit on Kavanaugh by the left since there's no evidence and the rallying cry of "Innocent until proven guilty" being used by the same people who chant "LOCK HER UP" about someone who WAS exonerated. 

35 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

Ford no longer wanting to pursue allegations also seems rather suspect.  

Is it though? The woman's had to move because she's been facing death threats and attacks from the side notorious for getting imprisoned for this sort of shit, the person at the top in law enforcement attacks her and the committee in charge of overseeing the Department of Justice has flat out decided to cover-up any attempt at finding the truth knowing the FBI didn't even speak to her and Kavanaugh. While it may seem ideal that Ford continues pursuing her case with Maryland's law enforcement since there's no statue of limitations there for this sort of thing, you have to remember that it was attempted sexual assault and the man in question is:

1. White

2. Rich

3. Republican while Republicans control the government and Trump's been packing the courts with pro-corporate judges.

Such efforts wouldn't get much done under such a tribalist political environment.

35 minutes ago, FrostyFireMage said:

This being a big win for Trump is definitely not a good thing however. This means no more healthcare, right? 

Most likely not until Trump and the GOP are removed. In an era without Fox News, you COULD see Trump make positive change if his own base + popular opinion demanded it as there are Trump supporters who want "Medicare for all" but because of Fox News, Trump's base will just continue to be angry towards non-whites and be "deplorable" for the sake of "owning the liberals" while the rich steal the safety nets the people pay into. Fox News is a real problem and a big part of why Trump thrives today when his handling of investigations has been a re-run of Nixon's time.

 

@eclipse Forum software wouldn't let me edit.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Because of how Article 3, Section 1 of the constitution is interpreted:

People who argue FOR lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court say that the underlined implies they can hold office indefinitely so long as they're not impeached. They also argue that the lifetime appointment is for job security so they can make their decisions free from public or political pressures and the last bit about compensation suggesting that they should be safe even if they make unpopular decisions. 

I dunno, I just don't see why it can't be amended so that there's a mandatory retirement age. Also, whilst I assume you're just mentioning it and don't actually believe it, the argument that job security means that they're free from outside interest is complete horseshit and is demonstrably false in every instance where it's used.

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51 minutes ago, Time the Crestfallen said:

I dunno, I just don't see why it can't be amended so that there's a mandatory retirement age.

A mandatory retirement age can be amended. A term limit can be amended. New Amendments and regulation CAN happen but you've gotta have the people support it and have representatives who represent the people:

Quote

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

The US has to get rid of the legalized bribe (or lobbying by corporations) problem it currently has if people want to start seeing significant progress, otherwise the future may as well be a game of tug of war where each party rules for a time and spends a portion of that time undoing what the other has done and the rich will continue to control the country. Take for example the Tax Preparation industry that exists because of lobbying: You pay these companies to do your taxes, they pay lawmakers to turn down any bills that would implement return free tax filing, and they keep this particular industry alive by keeping the politicians paid to not simplify that tax filing process. The companies involved in this lobbying even admit the risk they run of the government just doing return free tax filing in their corporate reports

 

Quote

Our consumer tax business also faces significant competition from the public sector, where we face the risk of federal and state taxing authorities developing software or other systems to facilitate tax return preparation and electronic filing at no charge to taxpayers. These or similar programs may be introduced or expanded in the future, which may cause us to lose customers and revenue

 

Quote

We anticipate that governmental encroachment at both the federal and state levels may present a continued competitive threat to our business for the foreseeable future.

This bribery is why our politicians do nothing in response to school shootings, it's why our healthcare sucks, it's why the tax cuts have passed and the deficit is growing, it's why education has such funding issues, it's why wages haven't kept up with inflation, the list goes on and the first step is to end this bribery.

51 minutes ago, Time the Crestfallen said:

Also, whilst I assume you're just mentioning it and don't actually believe it, the argument that job security means that they're free from outside interest is complete horseshit and is demonstrably false in every instance where it's used.

Yeah I was just mentioning some of the arguments I've seen for the lifetime appointment. When it comes to the Supreme Court I'm currently undecided between term limits in it or just flat out abolishing it because the notion of having a court of impartial judges being the interpreters of the law without applying their bias and political ideology into their decision is as flawed as us humans. The tricky part is where do you relegate their power to?

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Yeah I was just mentioning some of the arguments I've seen for the lifetime appointment. When it comes to the Supreme Court I'm currently undecided between term limits in it or just flat out abolishing it because the notion of having a court of impartial judges being the interpreters of the law without applying their bias and political ideology into their decision is as flawed as us humans. The tricky part is where do you relegate their power to?

To be frank, the fact that the Nuclear Option is even a thing seems absolutely fucking ridiculous to me, and if obstructionism is such a big problem that people feel like it's necessary than hey, us Australians have a procedure called a double dissolution that you guys might be interested in.

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On 10/6/2018 at 5:35 PM, eclipse said:

It's called "suck it up and work together".  Which is something that's being rapidly lost.

I don't know how much Fox News you've listened to recently (hopefully none), but their tactics are disgusting.  It's opinion pieces disguised as fact.  But they have a viewership, which means that they're doing something right. . .even if it isn't right by my standards.  Stuff like that is what's fueling this divide IMO.

On that note--for me the most disappointing part of how this all went down (one of those sign-of-the-times moments that speaks to where the country is at right now) was this moment from an interview with Jeff Flake, after he announced that he would not support Kavanaugh unless the White House allowed the FBI to "investigate" Dr. Ford's claims.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/409158-flake-if-i-were-running-for-re-election-not-a-chance-id-call-for-kavanaugh

 CBS Reporter: "Would you have asked for the investigation if you were up for reelection?" 

Flake: "Not a chance. There's no value in reaching across the aisle. There's no currency for that anymore."

_______

That just says it all, doesn't it???

Edited by Shoblongoo

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Step 1: Stage a fake video that can draw negative reaction against activism

Step 2: Post it on a facebook channel that targets an international audience but is owned by a TV network funded by the Russian government

Step 3: Sit back and watch as useful idiots spread the video and make it go viral to serve the propaganda. Useful idiots include: The Blaze (Glenn Beck)The Daily Wire (Ben Shapiro)some conservative group called "Chicks on the right".

 

I dunno, I try to listen to both sides and most of the time I see videos and commentary from the right, they appear to be either useful idiots ("The Amazing Lucas") or white nationalists (The Red Elephants) for example and just have no logical reason for their opposition to civil rights and some of the socialist policies advocated by the likes of Bernie Sanders. Does today's right even have a logical cause?

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Does today's right even have a logical cause?

Among their leadership, it's simply about money and control. Among their voter base, not really, it's based on fear and hatred.

I recently read an article that goes into the pettiness and cruelty of Trump and his supporters that you might find interesting.

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Conservativism is a valid ideology, but the key thing to understand is that the Republican party in the US does not encompass traditional Conservative values. People keep an eye on the Republican and Democrat balls because that's all there is.

The landscape of the US would probably be a lot better if it was a Progressive Party vs a Libertarian one, despite my disagreement with almost every Libertarian economic policy.

6 minutes ago, Sarracenia said:

Alternatively, just pretend it doesn't exist and it'll go away, probably.

Edited by Edgelord

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Can't wait to see Trume praise or congratulate Bolsonaro when he is most likely to win in the Brazilian election second round since he praised Trump.

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro

This guy is a lunatic in a way that makes Trump look exceedingly mild.

Edited by Edgelord

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17 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Does today's right even have a logical cause?

...Depends...

Do you consider there is inherent value in doing things the way they have always been done before; if something has been a certain way for 200+ years and you are trying to change it, you are destroying something of value to be logical?
 

Edited by Shoblongoo

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13 hours ago, Edgelord said:

Can't wait to see Trume praise or congratulate Bolsonaro when he is most likely to win in the Brazilian election second round since he praised Trump.

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro

This guy is a lunatic in a way that makes Trump look exceedingly mild.

Wow. Almost on the level, nay, ACTUALLY ON THE LEVEL, with Duterte.

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3 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Depends...

Do you consider there is inherent value in doing things the way they have always been done before; if something has been a certain way for 200+ years and you are trying to change it, you are destroying something of value to be logical?
 

Sometimes the old way of doing things is better than the new way and vice versa.

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17 hours ago, Edgelord said:

Can't wait to see Trume praise or congratulate Bolsonaro when he is most likely to win in the Brazilian election second round since he praised Trump.

https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro

This guy is a lunatic in a way that makes Trump look exceedingly mild.

That's really surprising. I understand the voters of this guy even less then I do the typical populist voters. He's not pseudo charming like Farage, not a cartoon character like Trump and has no proven track record of base competence like Erdogan. Of all the populist Bolsonaro with his love for dictatorship and torture shares most with Duterte the mass murderer. So why would anyone vote for him?

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37 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's really surprising. I understand the voters of this guy even less then I do the typical populist voters. He's not pseudo charming like Farage, not a cartoon character like Trump and has no proven track record of base competence like Erdogan. Of all the populist Bolsonaro with his love for dictatorship and torture shares most with Duterte the mass murderer. So why would anyone vote for him?

The reason is that the party in power for the last 13 of 15 years in Brazil has cocked everything up pretty badly. They are a left-leaning party, so I suppose there's a comfort of whiplash going to the far-right in times of distress.

The problem will be that he will bring more pain, and just because one of your legs is severed, doesn't mean you should chop the other one to even the number of limbs. That, and his supporters tend to downplay a lot of what he does, instead focusing on PT's (incumbents) problems.

Bolsonaro apparently outright stated he didn't think economics was "that important" (in a time of a horrible economy), so really all he has is railing on the social issues, which isn't going to actually solve the former. Though, like Trump, he's been scant on the details for any policies he has in general. That, and I believe evangelical churches have backed him, which have major influence in Brazil.

That and he said that he would stage a coup on Day 1 if he was president in 1999 so I tend to believe him when he's going the way of Duterte. I've spoken to several of his supporters and apparently they don't think that there is any danger of him taking away civil liberties. It baffles the mind. But then again Duterte is still popular, so you know.

(and apparently he's not racist, homophobic or sexist either according to them)

Edited by Edgelord

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18 hours ago, Edgelord said:

Can't wait to see Trume praise or congratulate Bolsonaro when he is most likely to win in the Brazilian election second round since he praised Trump.

Bolsonaro wishes

 

Edited by Nobody

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7 hours ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Depends...

Do you consider there is inherent value in doing things the way they have always been done before; if something has been a certain way for 200+ years and you are trying to change it, you are destroying something of value to be logical?
 

Generally speaking there doesn't seem to be unless it's something that Trump wants to change such as privatizing the post office.

23 hours ago, Johann said:

Among their leadership, it's simply about money and control. Among their voter base, not really, it's based on fear and hatred.

I recently read an article that goes into the pettiness and cruelty of Trump and his supporters that you might find interesting.

Deplorables indeed.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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7 hours ago, Karimlan said:

Wow. Almost on the level, nay, ACTUALLY ON THE LEVEL, with Duterte.

He's a slight step up.

Bolsonaro just wants to torture drug dealers, not murder them. Though I wouldn't be surprised if he crossed that line very shortly.

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Duterte's pretty much killing off those dealers he is not doing business with under the table. He is coddling a few of them, though.

[/offtopic]

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16 hours ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

Deplorables indeed.

Remember when just a few days ago the NYT reported that the president and his family committed something like half a billion dollars in tax fraud, and a week later it isn't even news??? 

Same guys giving him a pass on that about to have a full blown meltdown in 2 months if their coffee cups don't say "MERRY CHRISTMAS!" 

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