Pokemon Sun and Moon General Discussion: Official Site updated to include every new 'mon

[Water Mage]

The main issue with T Wave was really the full para more than anything

And 75 is still the range of "it hits alright" tbh. Sleep Powder just happen to be pretty rare

Another issue with Thunder Wave, it's just how common it is.

Most Electric, Normal and Ghost Pokemon can learn it by TM.

Also, both Volbeat and Murkrow can learn Thunder Wave by TM, and both have the Prankster ability. You can see where this is going.

[Espinosa]

It would make it less broken

Well then, why not achieve this rebalancing thing without making the game any more of a coin toss fest?

I imagine Crobat would still be pretty underwhelming even if it had Spore or something.

[Water Mage]

I imagine Crobat would still be pretty underwhelming even if it had Spore or something.

It's not underwhelming, it's actually extremely dangerous.

Why?

First, because the list of Non-Mega Pokemon than can outspeed Crobat can be counted on one hand. And I mean that literally.

Second, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Crobat can learn Spore by level up. It would give rise to this moveset

Crobat-Ability Infiltrator(which allows it to ignore Substitute)

Spore

Nasty Plot

Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball

Air Slash

Hold item-Life Orb

It would wreak a lot of havoc, and it would be very difficult to stop.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Water Mage

[Magical Glace]

It's not underwhelming, it's actually extremely dangerous.

Why?

First, because the list of Non-Mega Pokemon than can outspeed Crobat can be counted on one hand. And I mean that literally.

Second, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Crobat can learn Spore by level up. It would give rise to this moveset

Crobat-Ability Infiltrator(which allows it to ignore Substitute)

Spore

Nasty Plot

Sludge Bomb

Air Slash

Hold item-Life Orb

It would wreak a lot of havoc, and it would be very difficult to stop.

I counted 8 (Deoxys (except Def), Ninjask, Accelgor, Electrode, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Mewtwo).

Point still stands however.

[Water Mage]

I counted 8 (Deoxys (except Def), Ninjask, Accelgor, Electrode, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, and Mewtwo).Point still stands however.

Actually I wasn't counting different forms and Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Mewtwo actually have the same base speed, 130.

That being said 8 is still a very low number.

[Moblin Major General]

It's not underwhelming, it's actually extremely dangerous.

Why?

First, because the list of Non-Mega Pokemon than can outspeed Crobat can be counted on one hand. And I mean that literally.

Second, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Crobat can learn Spore by level up. It would give rise to this moveset

Crobat-Ability Infiltrator(which allows it to ignore Substitute)

Spore

Nasty Plot

Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball

Air Slash

Hold item-Life Orb

It would wreak a lot of havoc, and it would be very difficult to stop.

The counter would be more Pokemon that can either recover quickly from or ignore status moves. Either that or a lot of Unaware Chesto Berry, even though both of these are poor excuses for counters.

[Nym]

It's not underwhelming, it's actually extremely dangerous.

Why?

First, because the list of Non-Mega Pokemon than can outspeed Crobat can be counted on one hand. And I mean that literally.

Second, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Crobat can learn Spore by level up. It would give rise to this moveset

Crobat-Ability Infiltrator(which allows it to ignore Substitute)

Spore

Nasty Plot

Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball

Air Slash

Hold item-Life Orb

It would wreak a lot of havoc, and it would be very difficult to stop.

Hello Mr Sporebat, allow me to introduce to your opponent: Espy the Magic Bounce Espeon.

On a serious note, that would be annoying as fuck to deal with it.

[VeryAngryBisharp]

PLEASE don't make the game rely on rng any more than it already does. Just take away it's TM status or something.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

It's not underwhelming, it's actually extremely dangerous.

Why?

First, because the list of Non-Mega Pokemon than can outspeed Crobat can be counted on one hand. And I mean that literally.

Second, let's pretend for the sake of argument that Crobat can learn Spore by level up. It would give rise to this moveset

Crobat-Ability Infiltrator(which allows it to ignore Substitute)

Spore

Nasty Plot

Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball

Air Slash

Hold item-Life Orb

It would wreak a lot of havoc, and it would be very difficult to stop.

The stop for this is like the exact same as with every gimmicky mon who tried to pull of this shit

AKA Ttar and Heatran

[Water Mage]

The stop for this is like the exact same as with every gimmicky mon who tried to pull of this shit

AKA Ttar and Heatran

Tyranitar I can undestand, but Heatran? Even with Assault Vest, Heatran can't take many Shadow Balls powered by Nasty Plot and Life Orb.

And is it really gimmicky? Inflicting a status and taking advantage of it to raise stats is a common strategy, isn't it?

Edited September 27, 2016 by Water Mage

[The DanMan]

Question: outside of a strictly gameplay sense, what are people's thoughts on Mega Evolution?

Edited September 27, 2016 by The DanMan

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Tyranitar I can undestand, but Heatran? Even with Assault Vest, Heatran can't take many Shadow Balls powered by Nasty Plot and Life Orb.

And is it really gimmicky? Inflicting a status and taking advantage of it to raise stats is a common strategy, isn't it?

Not really gimmicky in a sense that "its shit" Its just that theres tons of pokemon who operates under simmilar idea and a lot of them got stopped by either Heatran and Ttar(this is pretty much why Heatran Syndrome is a thing)

Anyway

+2 Crobat = 239 x 150 x 1.3 x 1.5 = 69.907

This is actually a fairly low power level post-set up

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Crobat Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Heatran: 110-131 (28.4 - 33.9%) -- 97.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is on top of issues like "only 2HKO on many defensive mon post-set up", and 4 movepool syndrome due to 2 move being used, and this kinda set actually requires move like Roost and Sub more than it seems at first sight

Seriously speaking though, you are probably better off with the generic Brave Bird set

Edited September 27, 2016 by JSND

[Thane]

Question: outside of a strictly gameplay sense, what are people's thoughts on Mega Evolution?

Welp, for some reason my post became two. Ignore this.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Thane

[Anacybele]

Why should we ignore DanMan's post for something you did...?

Anyway, I think Mega evolution is great! It improves some old Pokemon and makes some of them feel fresh again too. Also, Mega Gallade, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Charizard X are awesome.

[The DanMan]

Welp, for some reason my post became two. Ignore this.

Did you misquote here?

Edited September 27, 2016 by The DanMan

[Water Mage]

Not really gimmicky in a sense that "its shit" Its just that theres tons of pokemon who operates under simmilar idea and a lot of them got stopped by either Heatran and Ttar(this is pretty much why Heatran Syndrome is a thing)

Anyway

+2 Crobat = 239 x 150 x 1.3 x 1.5 = 69.907

This is actually a fairly low power level post-set up

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Crobat Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Heatran: 110-131 (28.4 - 33.9%) -- 97.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crobat: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is on top of issues like "only 2HKO on many defensive mon post-set up", and 4 movepool syndrome due to 2 move being used, and this kinda set actually requires move like Roost and Sub more than it seems at first sight

Seriously speaking though, you are probably better off with the generic Brave Bird set

I knew you were going to bring the 4 movepoll syndrome, and yeah, Roost did come to mind, but I didn't want to remove Air Slash.

Hearing you talk about "Heatran Syndrome" did remind of people complaing about Heatran being to strong and wating to ban to Ubers in Smogon.

But then again, Heatran can be stopped by a Water types, Mega Loppuny and Gliscor utterly destroys Heatran, if Heatran isn't carrying Hidden Power Ice.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I knew you were going to bring the 4 movepoll syndrome, and yeah, Roost did come to mind, but I didn't want to remove Air Slash.

Hearing you talk about "Heatran Syndrome" did remind of people complaing about Heatran being to strong and wating to ban to Ubers in Smogon.

But then again, Heatran can be stopped by a Water types, Mega Loppuny and Gliscor utterly destroys Heatran, if Heatran isn't carrying Hidden Power Ice.

Heatran syndrome is more on how many pokemon that somehow loses to Heatran(hint: its not broken) something like Serperior, Talonflame, Scizor, and a bunch of stuff getting checked by Heatran resulting in a weird meta effect where the moment Heatran went down, the floodgate is open, shown by the Triple Weak to Heatran + Tyranitar squad

Its one of the biggest mystery of pokemon, alongside the timeless question of how in the living fuck a pokemon as bad as Bronzong is so good if you put it in a metagame with so many broken pokemon

Edited September 27, 2016 by JSND

[VeryAngryBisharp]

Some Megas look cool like Charizard Y, Blaziken, Sceptile and my favorite, Pidgeot.

I just wish they gave a regular evo to some instead of a mega. Also, why in the world did they keep giving already strong Pokemon even more power, it's ridiculous.

[Nym]

Question: outside of a strictly gameplay sense, what are people's thoughts on Mega Evolution?

​You mean the item that allows a pokémon to battle like a Digimon?

​It was a good idea tbh, but the problem is that a few of them brought more problems instead fixing an issue.

And Primal is when everything went overboard.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Primals was basically Gamefreak way of saying "We fucked up when we made Kyogre okay? So let us fuck up again but now with Groudon on an even bigger scale"

Thats the ONLY way you can explain how Primal Kyogre is actually so bad by Primal standard

Seriously Groudon is probably the most dominant pokemon since Snorlax and Mews at their prime

Edited September 27, 2016 by JSND

[Water Mage]

Heatran syndrome is more on how many pokemon that somehow loses to Heatran(hint: its not broken) something like Serperior, Talonflame, Scizor, and a bunch of stuff getting checked by Heatran resulting in a weird meta effect where the moment Heatran went down, the floodgate is open, shown by the Triple Weak to Heatran + Tyranitar squad

Its one of the biggest mystery of pokemon, alongside the timeless question of how in the living fuck a pokemon as bad as Bronzong is so good if you put it in a metagame with so many broken pokemon

Yeah, I like to watch competitive battling, and I have been noticing that a lot of players rely on Heatran a little to much.

Heatran went down, the rest of the Pokemon fall like leaves.

And almost everyone uses Heatran. I kinda am getting sick of seeing it on competitive battling.

And your talk about Bronzong reminded if how Quagsire appeared Ubers for a while.

Not that Quagsire is bad, but one wouldn't imagine it appearing in Ubers.

[Jave]

Why should we ignore DanMan's post for something you did...?

Thane is saying to ignore his own post, not DanMan's.

I love Mega Evolution because it made my all-time favorite Pokemon usable in competitive play. It also looks cool Mega-evolved.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Jave

[Anacybele]

Thane is saying to ignore his own post, not DanMan's.

Then why did he quote DanMan's post?

I will admit that the one thing I don't like about Mega evolution is that Mewtwo and Charizard got two Megas. They didn't need two. :/ (Zard X and Mewtwo Y would've been just fine to me. Zard Y and Mewtwo X aren't nearly as cool).

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

It was a cool idea, some of the aesthetic change is cool, but some are less good than others(Blaziken is awkward)

Some of the changes i can't really get behind them but it do introduce some cool idea that admitably i wish other mon get them(for example No Guard Mega Dragonite would have been so cool)

That said the #1 issue i had with it is again the "broken ability on powerful as hell mon" trends. Not a lot of them are actually broken, but i don't like it all the same

Mega Launcher is just about the only broken ability that haven't found its way to the right mon

I kinda understand why though. For item standard +100 Stats is actually such a joke of a change. You can clearly see simply adding +100 Stats isn't enough unless the base idea is already broken(lets not kid ourselves here, Mega Blaziken reason for banning isn't going far from you basically saying It was banned because its literally Blaziken. Look at Mega Latios for this example at its finest)

Edited September 27, 2016 by JSND

[Jave]

Then why did he quote DanMan's post?

He probably quoted the wrong post, which is probably why he edited the post and told us to ignore it.