Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

14 minutes ago, Korath88 said:

Well, there's definitely some differing experience here, because Ephraim has been anything but deadweight for me. He's helped me win consistent 4-0s in advanced arena. Maybe instead of dismissing a unit so quickly, you could instead learn how to use him better?

I know how to use him, but when I see him taking so much damage from a Red swordsman (typically Lucina that is often used in the Arena, that inflicts him 20+ damage), I can't help but thinking he's bad. He's not from a great help against any of the more popular units in the Arena either, mine gets ORKOed by most of these because of his terrible speed, even with Marth's Spur Speed. Maybe yours is +Spd ? His Res doesn't help him either against Tikis. Seriously, if I could trade him with Effie, I'd do it without any regret.

EDIT: I mean, he's okay for story and all, but not for the Arena. So A rank would be better for him, or put Julia higher. Because, in the present state, I find Julia much better and useful than he is.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[Korath88]

11 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

I know how to use him, but when I see him taking so much damage from a Red swordsman (typically Lucina that is often used in the Arena, that inflicts him 20+ damage), I can't help but thinking he's bad. He's not from a great help against any of the more popular units in the Arena either, mine gets ORKOed by most of these because of his terrible speed, even with Marth's Spur Speed. Maybe yours is +Spd ? His Res doesn't help him either against Tikis. Seriously, if I could trade him with Effie, I'd do it without any regret.

Mine is +spd but yours definitely sounds like -def as mine easily tanks anything from Lucinas and Ryomas and wrecks them in return. Also, earlier on, my Ephraim took 2 consecutive hits from a Nowi and Tiki(Y), killing Nowi and crippling Tiki in the process, all on 1 Enemy phase. And mine is supposedly -res 

I'd even say he's currently my team's MVP.

Edit: If I remember correctly, he hasn't died once in any arena match yet, something I can't say for the other 3 members

Edited February 18, 2017 by Korath88

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

1 minute ago, Korath88 said:

Mine is +spd but yours definitely sounds like -def as mine easily tanks anything from Lucinas and Ryomas and wrecks them in return. Also, earlier on, my Ephraim took 2 consecutive hits from a Nowi and Tiki(Y), killing Nowi and crippling Tiki in the process, all on 1 Enemy phase. And mine is supposedly -res 

I'd even say he's currently my team's MVP.

I don't know what Boon/Bane mine has because he had the average base stats, which isn't supposed to happen ? (19, 25, 6, 8, 5, see picture below). +Spd definitely helps him, mine get ORKOed by Young Tiki (WITH WTA which is pretty stupid, even if she targets Res, glad I have Marth), and by most popular units in the Arena, or at least badly damaged. Maybe your team helps him too. 

Spoiler

 

[Korath88]

2 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

I don't know what Boon/Bane mine has because he had the average base stats, which isn't supposed to happen ? (19, 25, 6, 8, 5, see picture below). +Spd definitely helps him, mine get ORKOed by Young Tiki (WITH WTA which is pretty stupid, even if she targets Res, glad I have Marth), and by most popular units in the Arena, or at least badly damaged. Maybe your team helps him too. 

  Hide contents

 

Yours is neutral, from the looks of it. I run him alongside Lyn, Lilina and Olivia (yes, 3 reds), which is basically just 3 of my faves+ dancer support, but it works out surprisingly well. My strategy is to bait out and enemy phase anything that isn't too risky on the first turn, then player phase everything left standing afterwards. Seal/ threaten Defence helps a lot in that regard. Another unit like Effie would not work here as movement is very important in dancer teams.

Also, I apologise if I came off as rude or aggressive, but I'm honestly quite sick of all the knee jerk "Ephraim is bad" reactions, especially those on Reddit. I'm not saying he's the best lancer in the game, but he deserves that A+ spot in the tier list IMO.

[Skfoos]

10 hours ago, eclipse said:

I'd say it heavily depends on your team's boons/banes.  For example, if your team is full of -Atk, Olivia is a must.

Would a bane Speed (Lyn) or HP (Camilla) warrant using Olivia? I'm thinking no, since Lyn still doubles frequently and Camilla has a boon Defense to help.

 

9 hours ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

If you want to maximize your Arena score, then yes you need to level them because your score is based in part off your team's stat total. Otherwise though, not really. As long as Olivia has Dance and maybe Hone Attack 3, that's really all you need in terms of dancer utility. Same for healers: if maximizing Arena score is not a priority, then so long as you get the skills you want, you're golden.

I might just upgrade someone else like Robin in that case, since my main blue unit (Catria) is the only one that isn't 5* (not to mention that I REALLY need a magic unit). The only extra things Olivia can learn at 5* is Silver Sword+, and for Clarine it's Resistance +3.

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

2 hours ago, Korath88 said:

Yours is neutral, from the looks of it. I run him alongside Lyn, Lilina and Olivia (yes, 3 reds), which is basically just 3 of my faves+ dancer support, but it works out surprisingly well. My strategy is to bait out and enemy phase anything that isn't too risky on the first turn, then player phase everything left standing afterwards. Seal/ threaten Defence helps a lot in that regard. Another unit like Effie would not work here as movement is very important in dancer teams.

Also, I apologise if I came off as rude or aggressive, but I'm honestly quite sick of all the knee jerk "Ephraim is bad" reactions, especially those on Reddit. I'm not saying he's the best lancer in the game, but he deserves that A+ spot in the tier list IMO.

No problem, I understand since I'm a bit like that when people criticize my favorite units too. I'm running a team of 5* Marth, Ephraim, Fae, and 4* Felicia or Olivia. Before that, I used to have 4* Peri instead of Ephraim, and the hardest part for me is that I hardly felt a difference. Ephraim has more Def and hits harder, but since Peri was MUCH faster (like 30+ or something), she was quite bulky as well because she didn't get doubled by pretty much everybody, and had more Mov and Res, the same skill that debuffs Defense at the start of each turn and a better Special. Also you have a very strong Boon/Bane, so yours can bait (+Def/-Res would work too), while mine cannot really (outside of Red, and not all of them) because he gets slaughtered by Tikis, Takumis, Robins, etc and even Lucinas sometimes (if she has +Atk/-Res she hits him very hard), especially in maps like the lava map from Conquest's world (where you fight Camilla and her retainers). For the detailed reasons I stated one or two pages ago, I consider him a good unit for the story, training tower and all, but not that good for the Arena because of the units we meet there. By comparaison, my brother sent me his Nintendo IDs so I can play with his file from my home on another device because he's not as "assiduous" as I am (but that's still his file) and has a team of 5* Effie, Julia, Camilla and Marth (-Atk however), and it's day and night. Julia is absolutely incredible, but she's ranked in the same tier, so I think she deserves either to be higher, or Ephraim to be lower. From my personal experience because I played both and since I have the "standard" Ephraim (not the best), I'd rather pick the second option (even if Julia is S or S+ to me) and would put him in A tier. She also works very well with Effie that slaughters the Red units and protects Julia while she deals massive damage to blue and green units, healing 7 HP to Effie so Wary Fighter can proc. Because of her huge Atk and Res, she is best placed to fight in the Arena IMHO, because she humiliates Effies, Robins, Lindes, dragons and even Takumis sometimes. Of course she has a different role, but I find her much better in hers than Ephraim in his.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[Korath88]

13 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

No problem, I understand since I'm a bit like that when people criticize my favorite units too. I'm running a team of 5* Marth, Ephraim, Fae, and 4* Felicia or Olivia. Before that, I used to have 4* Peri instead of Ephraim, and the hardest part for me is that I hardly felt a difference. Ephraim has more Def and hits harder, but since Peri was MUCH faster (like 30+ or something), she was quite bulky as well because she didn't get doubled by pretty much everybody, and had more Mov and Res, the same skill that debuffs Defense at the start of each turn and a better Special. Also you have a very strong Boon/Bane, so yours can bait (+Def/-Res would work too), while mine cannot really (outside of Red, and not all of them) because he gets slaughtered by Tikis, Takumis, Robins, etc and even Lucinas sometimes (if she has +Atk/-Res she hits him very hard), especially in maps like the lava map from Conquest's world (where you fight Camilla and her retainers). For the detailed reasons I stated one or two pages ago, I consider him a good unit for the story, training tower and all, but not that good for the Arena because of the units we meet there. By comparaison, my brother sent me his Nintendo IDs so I can play with his file from my home on another device because he's not as "assiduous" as I am (but that's still his file) and has a team of 5* Effie, Julia, Camilla and Marth (-Atk however), and it's day and night. Julia is absolutely incredible, but she's ranked in the same tier, so I think she deserves either to be higher, or Ephraim to be lower. From my personal experience because I played both and since I have the "standard" Ephraim (not the best), I'd rather pick the second option (even if Julia is S or S+ to me) and would put him in A tier. She also works very well with Effie that slaughters the Red units and protects Julia while she deals massive damage to blue and green units, healing 7 HP to Effie so Wary Fighter can proc. Because of her huge Atk and Res, she is best placed to fight in the Arena IMHO, because she humiliates Effies, Robins, Lindes, dragons and even Takumis sometimes. Of course she has a different role, but I find her much better in hers than Ephraim in his.

Tbh, I actually agree on raising Julia to S rank, as Manaketes are quite Common in the arena, and she hits them really hard. But keep in mind that tier lists are based purely on opinion. Heck, some JP tier lists rank Ephraim as the best lancer after Azura. Tier lists also rate units in a vacuum, ignoring certain team combinations when rating units. Playstyles also vary, so it could just be that Ephraim is more suited to my style than yours. After all, what matters most is getting that arena score, so just use what works best for you.

[crazy_man]

7 hours ago, C4stor said:

The lvl1 4* 18 14 ... is +HP -Def

The lvl1 4* 17 15 ... is +Atk -Spd

Cheers :)

Ty. Now just need to get enough Blue Great Seals to upgrade my other Robin to figure out its stats.....

[Rezzy]

I'll leveling the Hector I just pulled with the aid of my Olivia, Wrys, Maria leveling team.  It's odd, but one of the funnest parts of this game for me is leveling low units up, at least until you hit the XP Wall around level 20 or so.

[pianime94]

For me, it's when you finally hit 30, lol.

[Lupine]

1 hour ago, Korath88 said:

Tbh, I actually agree on raising Julia to S rank, as Manaketes are quite Common in the arena, and she hits them really hard. But keep in mind that tier lists are based purely on opinion. Heck, some JP tier lists rank Ephraim as the best lancer after Azura. Tier lists also rate units in a vacuum, ignoring certain team combinations when rating units. Playstyles also vary, so it could just be that Ephraim is more suited to my style than yours. After all, what matters most is getting that arena score, so just use what works best for you.

Julia is amazing!  Mine nukes so I'm paring her with Effie for an unbeatable team.  Effie as the shield/ killer and Julia nuking with heals.  

[Rezzy]

35 minutes ago, pianime94 said:

For me, it's when you finally hit 30, lol.

Yeah, the XP gained start to slow in 20, but really grind once you hit 30.  The x1.5 XP definitely helps, though.  Another bonuch about low level grinding is that your Stamina goes a lot further.

35 minutes ago, Lupine said:

Julia is amazing!  Mine nukes so I'm paring her with Effie for an unbeatable team.  Effie as the shield/ killer and Julia nuking with heals.  

Grats, I got Hector, who I'll be making my main Green.  I had Camilla, but with the Arrow weakness, and her being -Atk, she was a bit sub par.  Together with Takumi, Abel, and Baby Tiki, I think it's a pretty formidable team.

[Extrasolar]

Alright, finally got a B-team put together. After the first two rounds, my other two summoning sessions have been sub-par. Getting a lot of stuff I don't want, like another Raigh, an Arthur, a Barst and a Cecilia, all 3* at that.

But my B-Team currently is Cordelia (that Brave Lance too good), Tharja, Olivia, and Clarine, all of them 4*. Olivia/Clarine in general is a combo I love. Double healing in one round? Yes, please. Clarine won me over with her adorably haughty voice over. She's been useful, but she's probably gonna get benched should I get another strong unit.

I feel like we have a glaring weakness somewhere on this team, but I don't now where it is lol.

Considering Tharja's attack increasing after she's buffed, I might slap her on the Nowi, Seliph and Julia team to replace Merric every now and then, if not permanently once I start pulling some better units. Rally Speed + Rally Defense? Perfect. If Sharena wasn't a 2* that I'd have to sink endless feathers in to buff up, I'd put her on that team to give Rally Attack too.

In other news, this game seems dead set on not letting me get a decent archer to replace Virion. The archer drought is real to begin with, and I've had a total of one colorless tile every single summoning session. Come on, game, you're really not giving me a lot to work with here. Gimme a Gordin, at least. Is that too much to ask?

Edited February 19, 2017 by Extrasolar

[ILikeKirbys]

@Sire Ah, I remember 9-2. That's the one with Ursula, yeah? It was pretty annoying, since I don't have something that both wrecks armors and doesn't get nuked out by Ursula (I have Oboro, whose Resistance is crap, and Hana, whose defenses are nonexistent). Maybe I should train up Cecilia for that one? It's a ways off, but still, no time like the present. On your comments about my team...

I do have a 5-Star Lyn and Marth that I could replace Roy with. Lyn is serviceable, and has great Speed and Attack, but her Attack is matched by Roy and Marth (who was 10 levels behind her when he was equal to her, and is now a couple of points ahead thanks to some grinding) and her defenses are outstripped by Roy (and will most likely be by Marth as well, if only in Defense). I don't really have a good setup to use Galeforce with her either (Olivia is weak, and frail, and kinda sluggish, or at least my 3-Star one is), so I dunno if she'd be my best choice. Marth will most likely end up as fast as or a little faster than Roy unless he stops growing Speed soon (he's at 23 Speed at level 22), has self-healing via Falchion and can run away with Escape Route when I need him to live, so I suppose I'd replace Roy with Marth for maps where Roy won't help (unless there's something about Lyn that I'm missing, she's really mostly better for Galeforce stuff and having great Speed and Attack).

Good to hear Robin's gonna stay good. He nuked Xander on my Hard run of 9-5 (where Jeorge died early killing the healer and I had to sacrifice Roy to a Blue mage late so Robin could get healed), and I'm hoping he'll serve well on Chapter 9 Lunatic too. Dunno what his Boon/Bane are, but if I had to guess based on how he is now I'd guess +Atk/-Res (but I won't know for sure until I promote him, which won't be for a while).

Clarine is indeed a healbot, and being on a horse is helpful, but I'm not keen on her getting hit ever (even if she can take a magical hit and live). Sakura's mostly my replacement of choice since she looks to be similar to Clarine stat-wise (except that she'll most likely end up a bit better), buffs my team's defenses (which they need sometimes), and can neuter enemies with Fear, but I'll keep Lissa in mind (I have a 3-Star Lissa that I got in my first pull, lucky me, and I could promote her whenever if I needed Rehabilitate).

Jeorge... Yeah, not killing stuff, that's my problem right there. I'll look into raising up Gordin (especially since my other archer, Setsuna, is shaping up to be worse than Jeorge).

As for fielding my two best units (Marth/Lyn/Roy and Robin in my case), a healer (Clarine/Sakura) and a dancer (Olivia)... That's an interesting idea. If I ever have trouble bringing up a good unit, I'll see if that works. Can't do that right now, since among other things I need to train up Marth, but maybe in the future.

@eclipseWait, why is Gordin so good with Vantage? I mean, he's my only realistic choice for bows now (unless I somehow pull Takumi in my next pull... so yeah, just Gordin) so I'm gonna train him up, but why would Vantage+Brave Bow be good? He's still gonna get doubled, and he won't deal that much damage with his one counterattack at the beginning of combat, so wouldn't he still get wrecked on enemy phase?
Also, related maybe-a-problem: Does Gordin normally have low Attack? My 4-Star Gordin has 20 Attack at Level 21, and I'm not sure if it's because he's gotten crappy levels or because he's got an ATK bane, and it's starting to worry me (and makes leveling him up annoying when a level has no flying enemies).

As for Sakura, yeah, that's pretty much what I was looking for. Good to know I'll still have some support unit when I bench Jeorge.

Also, when you're talking about bringing an Armorslayer for Narcian... did you mean Zephiel? And if so, wouldn't Robin be able to handle him with WTA and Bonfire? If not, I can grind up my 4-Star Oboro with her Heavy Spear (she has Rally Defense and Threaten Resistance too, so maybe I could run her with Robin or some other mage if I ever pull another good one), or maybe my 4-Star Hana with her Armorslayer and really high offensive stats (she'd probably die on enemy phase, but she'd most likely be able to kill Zephiel).

Thanks for the Lunatic tips, guys! Sorry for taking so long to respond.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

For the FE Heroes Wiki tier list, I definitely think Lilina is way too high; there's no way she is on par with Tharja, THE best Red mage, and she is arguably worse than Leo as well. Nowi should also not be in S rank, but in A+ with F!Corrin; she is fairly one-dimensional, and has very clear flaws. I'm also on the fence about Sharena being S rank with Effie, but she's so underused that I honestly don't have a clue. Perhaps having a Hone, a Rally, and one Seal does actually change up the delicate math in Advanced Arena fights.

Nino and Tharja might deserve to go up to S rank, Tharja more so, because of Darting Blow. Julia should probably stay at A or A+ though, since she doesn't have good Speed.

[Rezzy]

8 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

For the FE Heroes Wiki tier list, I definitely think Lilina is way too high; there's no way she is on par with Tharja, THE best Red mage, and she is arguably worse than Leo as well. Nowi should also not be in S rank, but in A+ with F!Corrin; she is fairly one-dimensional, and has very clear flaws. I'm also on the fence about Sharena being S rank with Effie, but she's so underused that I honestly don't have a clue. Perhaps having a Hone, a Rally, and one Seal does actually change up the delicate math in Advanced Arena fights.

Nino and Tharja might deserve to go up to S rank, Tharja more so, because of Darting Blow. Julia should probably stay at A or A+ though, since she doesn't have good Speed.

Nowi might so high because she can counter at 1-2 range, that's a huge asset to have.

Why would Nino go to S rank?  I like her, but she's pretty frail and doesn't have much going in terms of skills.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

17 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Nowi might so high because she can counter at 1-2 range, that's a huge asset to have.

Why would Nino go to S rank?  I like her, but she's pretty frail and doesn't have much going in terms of skills.

True about the 1-2 range, I guess. I still think she is just a one-trick pony, though, that many things in the game can shut down just fine, including the newly released Julia.

Nino is good because of her archetype and tome. She and Tharja grow like Linde (the current best mage), with high Attack and Speed, but no bulk. Glass cannon mages are considered superior, because they ideally should not be in direct combat, and the damage output lets them secure key kills. Nino's tome (and Tharja's) gains more power the more stat buffs she has on that turn, which, when paired with support like Sharena or Eirika, can reach ridiculous amounts of power. Add on the fact she can double most of the time, most 1-range units will perish in one round against her. Tharja is the more offensive of the two, with Vengeance and Darting Blow, but Nino can pull allies and has Hone Attack, which are also extremely valuable.

[Quintessence]

Have missed a lot of stuff in the thread, but read through it all.

Just beat the Lunatic content. I'm quite glad I did it with an almost default team: 5* Lyn, 4* Alfonse, Sharena and Robin+1. I love how I mixed Spur Attck, Spd and Def that saved the day quite a lot of times, Lyn's and Robin's Defiant skill were pretty important. However, MVP is Robin definitely, he doubled most enemies, Sharena had Rally Attack for more power and Fortify Def to tank hits. Alfonse with Death Blow blew shit all over the place. He was also my knight tank, cause he doubled most of them and dealt big chunks of dmg plus Sol recovery. Lyn was also a good offensive unit and Astra wrecked enemies everywhere.

Onto the chapters themeselves, the most troubling where 9-4 and 9-5 definitely. I had to use Light Blessings once in both, as well as 9-3. In other chapters I just sacrificed units to make the other counter kill/retaliate. Would've loved using Anna for a semi vanilla run but I dropped her as she seemed squishy at times, but blue units gave me nightmares at times.

Seeing the meta right now, there's a red dominance as most 5* units are red, so green units have a hard time. I've seen Julia is doing wonders but any sword unit will wreck her. Takumi is also subject to discussion as he is in basically every team on the arena, but I find him overrated. Idk if it is because I deal swiftly with him with Robin, but any ranged attacker can bait him and counter kill him with a strong offense. Be it Virion, Jeorge, a bulky ninja, or any mage with Raud/Gronn/Blarraven can safely deal with him.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

9 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

Seeing the meta right now, there's a red dominance as most 5* units are red, so green units have a hard time. I've seen Julia is doing wonders but any sword unit will wreck her. Takumi is also subject to discussion as he is in basically every team on the arena, but I find him overrated. Idk if it is because I deal swiftly with him with Robin, but any ranged attacker can bait him and counter kill him with a strong offense. Be it Virion, Jeorge, a bulky ninja, or any mage with Raud/Gronn/Blarraven can safely deal with him.

Takumi is far from invincible, but he is SS rank because unless you have a direct Takumi counter or a Dancer, he can almost guarantee the loss of one of your units in exchange for killing him on Player Phase. Close Counter spites anyone who tries to run up and hit him, which immediately puts the attacker at disadvantage, even if Takumi ends up dying. More often than not, the CPU will place a second unit directly behind Takumi as well, which is very likely to kill off the unit you just attacked Takumi with. Takumi has good Speed and average HP and Defense too, so it's not like he's paper enough to die in one round to most common attackers. His Res is low, but no mages can afford to initiate against him. These things combined make killing Takumi on Player Phase very risky, and usually not worth it, which is a great advantage that no other Bowman can press. In an 8x6 map, being forced to give ground can be extremely lethal.

So if Player Phase is a bad idea, you're basically forced to have someone eat one of his hits, even if you have a direct counter to him. Every one of his counters except Hector won't exactly shrug off that damage without healer support, which is pretty annoying, and if your dedicated Takumi counter is also your only way of dealing with another meta threat on Takumi's team, it's possible to just straight up lose. It's happened to me before.

Threaten Speed is mostly useful for when Takumi is in your and you baited the AI, but you can't be careless about leaving a non-Hector Takumi counter within two squares of him, either. If the map does not allow such space, then you might find someone doubled and killed.

He also becomes extra cheap when supported by Azura or Olivia, for obvious reasons. Olivia's Hone Attack notably removes Kagerou as a possible counter.

His overwhelming presence and prevalence have actually forced two fliers, Camilla and Cordelia, out of S rank, as well as making every other flier even less viable than before.

[Quintessence]

54 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Takumi is far from invincible, but he is SS rank because unless you have a direct Takumi counter or a Dancer, he can almost guarantee the loss of one of your units in exchange for killing him on Player Phase. Close Counter spites anyone who tries to run up and hit him, which immediately puts the attacker at disadvantage, even if Takumi ends up dying. More often than not, the CPU will place a second unit directly behind Takumi as well, which is very likely to kill off the unit you just attacked Takumi with. Takumi has good Speed and average HP and Defense too, so it's not like he's paper enough to die in one round to most common attackers. His Res is low, but no mages can afford to initiate against him. These things combined make killing Takumi on Player Phase very risky, and usually not worth it, which is a great advantage that no other Bowman can press. In an 8x6 map, being forced to give ground can be extremely lethal.

So if Player Phase is a bad idea, you're basically forced to have someone eat one of his hits, even if you have a direct counter to him. Every one of his counters except Hector won't exactly shrug off that damage without healer support, which is pretty annoying, and if your dedicated Takumi counter is also your only way of dealing with another meta threat on Takumi's team, it's possible to just straight up lose. It's happened to me before.

Threaten Speed is mostly useful for when Takumi is in your and you baited the AI, but you can't be careless about leaving a non-Hector Takumi counter within two squares of him, either. If the map does not allow such space, then you might find someone doubled and killed.

He also becomes extra cheap when supported by Azura or Olivia, for obvious reasons. Olivia's Hone Attack notably removes Kagerou as a possible counter.

His overwhelming presence and prevalence have actually forced two fliers, Camilla and Cordelia, out of S rank, as well as making every other flier even less viable than before.

But I never said about attacking him on player phase ~

Eating a counter is basically suicide unless you're sure about eating another hit, or positioning someone as a wall to avoid kos. Takumi overall stats are good, has high spd but he can be dealt with ranged units. Granted, a melee team will have a hard time against him due to close counter but he is not the godlike unit, imo.

Camilla is also on a similar, even Alfonse can deal with her without hesitations. Brave axe nor vengeance will save her. She's pretty good at dealing with blue mages (linde and robin) but a red unit will most likely wait for her.

I haven't seen Cordelia nor summoned her but I can see her (as well as other blues) up there due to the small amount of green units right there.

[Rezzy]

I really wish Knock Back or other similar attack skills gave us the option whether we wanted to use them or not.  I often forget I have the skill, and there's many times where the attack pushes the enemy out of the range of another unit that I was planning to use to finish them off.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

19 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

But I never said about attacking him on player phase ~

Eating a counter is basically suicide unless you're sure about eating another hit, or positioning someone as a wall to avoid kos. Takumi overall stats are good, has high spd but he can be dealt with ranged units. Granted, a melee team will have a hard time against him due to close counter but he is not the godlike unit, imo.

Camilla is also on a similar, even Alfonse can deal with her without hesitations. Brave axe nor vengeance will save her. She's pretty good at dealing with blue mages (linde and robin) but a red unit will most likely wait for her.

I haven't seen Cordelia nor summoned her but I can see her (as well as other blues) up there due to the small amount of green units right there.

I know you didn't. I just told you why Takumi is not overrated~

Brave weapon offense is actually very strong, but Brave users not named Camilla or Cordelia suffer from Speed and bulk problems. If not for the fact that Takumi exists, I'm quite certain she would be preferred over Abel as the Sword killer.

Edited February 19, 2017 by SatsumaFSoysoy

[Fly_or_Die]

17 minutes ago, Quintessence said:

But I never said about attacking him on player phase ~

Eating a counter is basically suicide unless you're sure about eating another hit, or positioning someone as a wall to avoid kos. Takumi overall stats are good, has high spd but he can be dealt with ranged units. Granted, a melee team will have a hard time against him due to close counter but he is not the godlike unit, imo.

Camilla is also on a similar, even Alfonse can deal with her without hesitations. Brave axe nor vengeance will save her. She's pretty good at dealing with blue mages (linde and robin) but a red unit will most likely wait for her.

I haven't seen Cordelia nor summoned her but I can see her (as well as other blues) up there due to the small amount of green units right there.

The thing with Takumi is that you really have to learn to deal with him. Without a prepared counter, his excellent stats + close counter are going to rip through most teams. Even though he isn't hard to counter when you're set up for it (unless you're facing 3x Takumi), just the fact that the meta partially centers around him is a pretty good indicator of how good he is.

Camilla, even disregarding Takumi, doesn't seem to be an amazing unit. She can be dangerous on EP due to brave axe, but pretty much any red unit can take her out otherwise.

[Sire]

I find Camilla to be much more useful on offensive teams (player controlled) than defensive ones (AI). Every now and then the player may be caught out of position in Arena and a flier (Camilla) can go for a kill, but that could be said of any flying unit. She is easily taken out by any Red unit or bow user.

I primarily field Camilla to deal with any Blues that may show up and she works wonders against Robins, Nowis, and Effies. If there are no Blues around, I'll send Camilla in an attempt to go after Greys or manipulate the AI movement. (I noticed a trend where the AI will move units to "counter" their color and avoid being "countered" if targets are out of attack distance. I managed to use this to my advantage on a mountain map where Lyn and Robin were always paired up. I moved Camilla to the other side of the mountain and just out of range of their attack. Robin went for my Reds and Lyn went for Camilla, offering me the opportunity to take them both seperately.) However, I will say Camilla is not the best choice and others can fulfill her role, but if the player has her she is fairly good at what she does.

As for Takumi, I handle him with my +SPD -ATT Ryoma which can reliably kill most Takumis. However, should Takumi have +SPD or +DEF as a boon (or any buffs that increase SPD or DEF), then my Ryoma cannot effectively counter him. I lost a good Arena Run on the 6th round by running into a +SPD Takumi on that accursed Lava map. Not having any ranged units and also going up against Kagero did not help my cause.

With proper counters, Takumi is but a minor inconvenience (or even a boon). However, without a counter, Takumi will make sure he takes down at least one other person with him, and in terms of Arena ranking, that is a really big deal.

[Korath88]

Takumi is better on Defence as defending teams do not need to keep all 4 units alive, and thus Takumi can often take at least one of the attackers down with him due to close counter. On offense, close counter is less useful as it requires you to take damage, which is detrimental to perfect runs.

Camilla is bad on Defence though, as it is easy to bait her out with a sword user, which is why I don't really understand why I come across so many camillas in the arena. All she really does is help charge up Lyn's galeforce.