Sad look at some thoughts on our fanbase

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

How are cavaliers in thongs less insulting than pegasus knights in skirts?

In FE6/FE7, the pegasi are from Ilia, which is supposed to be a cold/snowy region, which makes it twice as insulting.

The rule in Nohr is "no pants for women".  Otherwise, the armor is the same.  I think it's a dumb design decision, but it doesn't directly clash with the lore.

[Slumber]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

In FE6/FE7, the pegasi are from Ilia, which is supposed to be a cold/snowy region, which makes it twice as insulting.

The rule in Nohr is "no pants for women".  Otherwise, the armor is the same.  I think it's a dumb design decision, but it doesn't directly clash with the lore.

Hey now. I'm from Minnesota, and pretty much any time there's a string of -10F or lower temperatures, the first time there's a spike to 20F or more, people can't wait to bust out their shorts and t-shirts.

Granted, I doubt this was what IS was going for, but I actually didn't see that kind of thing as too out there. Then again, I'm also not a girl so I really didn't look at it like that, and I have no idea if skirts are remotely similar to shorts or t-shirts in terms of how external temperatures feel.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Slumber

[eclipse]

3 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Hey now. I'm from Minnesota, and pretty much any time there's a string of -10F or lower temperatures, the first time there's a spike to 20F or more, people can't wait to bust out their shorts and t-shirts.

Granted, I doubt this was what IS was going for, but I actually didn't see that kind of thing as too out there. Then again, I'm also not a girl so I really didn't look at it like that, and I have no idea if skirts are remotely similar to shorts or t-shirts in terms of how external temperatures feel.

I'm from Hawaii, so cold is 60F.

I can wear miniskirts in public without drawing ire.  Things I worry about:

- Having the wind flip up my skirt
- Sitting with my legs crossed
- Getting cold, because there's one less layer of clothing from the bottom of my crotch down
- Other things that wander into TMI territory

Riding any sort of animal without pants will hurt - just think of the skin on your inner thigh, rubbing against leather.  Since pegasi are airborne units, they'd also have to worry about their skirt flipping up as they descend/get caught in a gust of wind.  Sacae had the right idea - wear pants!  I may not like Sue that much, but I'm very thankful that she wears pants.

How does this relate to the topic?  I don't mind criticism, as long as it's something that doesn't fall apart to someone who pays attention to the little things in the series.  My favorite game is listed as Shadow Dragon, a game that isn't particularly popular among the fandom.  There's a lot of valid criticisms, whether it be the graphics, reclass system, maps, story, lack of characterization of non-Marth units, etc.  However, I don't like those complaints that are either flat-out wrong (no, you don't absolutely NEED to turn someone into a General to get past the harder difficulties) or otherwise misinformed (Shadow Dragon has supports, even if they're as obvious as FE4's jealousy system).

[Augestein]

37 minutes ago, eclipse said:

In FE6/FE7, the pegasi are from Ilia, which is supposed to be a cold/snowy region, which makes it twice as insulting.

The rule in Nohr is "no pants for women".  Otherwise, the armor is the same.  I think it's a dumb design decision, but it doesn't directly clash with the lore.

I think it's more that it's jarring when it's seen side by side. Pegasus knights for instance are just Pegasus Knights and we don't see any male ones in the game. But here with the cavaliers , we get females that have one type of armor, and we get males with another type of armor... Which has always been a thing. I wouldn't really single out the Pegasi in this case because it's just something that's always been there. 

It's just now that the models are in 3D, we can see the entirety of their bodies outside of their upper body where we can no longer  assume that the women are wearing armor all over. I'd take Marcia's RD outfit as a compromise though since lore argues that they can't be too heavy for people to carry so I can understand not being fully armored, but at least she has pants. Actually RD's artwork is probably just the best in that regard. Only girls like Mist are silly enough to wear dresses/skirts like that, and her stats stink! 

Edited February 12, 2017 by Augestein

[Baldrick]

31 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The rule in Nohr is "no pants for women".  Otherwise, the armor is the same. 

Could you give me your opinion on these armour designs?

[dap005]

45 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Yes and no.

Certain pairings were set, but afterwards, it was a free-for-all.  However, there was no in-game warnings to tell you that you were about to marry Lewyn to Silvia or something like that.  Certain people had conversations/got items depending on who you paired.  And if a mom died single, you got replacement units that were usually worse.  The GBA FE games had marriages in the epilogue, and shipping wars happened there, too (see: who married Hector).  Everyone supporting everyone?  That's Radiant Dawn.

In other words, if you're going to complain about some aspect of FE, do some research, because your beef with Fates isn't something new.  It's an extension of something that's already happened (yes, even the fanservice-y armor, which IMO is far less insulting than the GBA pegasus knights).

I have no problem with paired supports, I'm not really put off by fates because everyone is getting married or something like that. Is just that it has the usual gazy-elements found in visual novels where you slam into Camilla's bits oh the awkward angles that came from battle panties flashing.

It's nothing new, this stuff even pops up in kids Manga in Japan sometimes. And fan-service armour is a mmo staple. 

There are some people that don't mind that stuff but some will just not like it for various reasons. I like the old fe character designs like tellius and tharcia as their look cooler (Mareeta!) and fates has a few nice designs but that's not really the only reason.

I guess bc I found Awakening's story to be not as interesting as it could be and hearing that Fate's is not too improved on in that department might have waned my enthusiasm slightly as well as the games being split into three .

I will borrow the games from a friend though at some point because even though I'm not as hyped about it as the remakes, there are interesting characters (i.e. Forrest) and mechanics (Conquest is praised for this). 

I didn't really mean to sound like I have any criticism about fates, I mean I never played it, how would I know. Just from a consumer's perspective I went from being very excited to not so much as the directs rolled on. But that's just me, in no way should my decisions affect other people's enjoyment or purchase of the games and apologies if it came across like that.

It's a thread about discussing the divide in the fandom and I was just in agreement about the change in tone of the series from my perspective as someone who played fe8 and then awakening before looking up stuff about the older games. 

Though in fairness I haven't really made a lot of contributions to aid this divide by showing beef of a game I never played. I won't lie about me just not being as eager to play it as the other FEs. But that's just me, each to their own. :)

And I will stop spamming this thread with long posts now. 

[eclipse]

2 minutes ago, Augestein said:

I think it's more that it's jarring when it's seen side by side. Pegasus knights for instance are just Pegasus Knights and we don't see any male ones in the game. But here with the cavaliers , we get females that have one type of armor, and we get males with another type of armor... Which has always been a thing. I wouldn't really single out the Pegasi in this case because it's just something that's always been there. 

It's just now that the models are in 3D, we can see the entirety of their bodies outside of their upper body where we can no longer  assume that the women are wearing armor all over. I'd take Marcia's RD outfit as a compromise though since lore argues that they can't be too heavy for people to carry so I can understand not being fully armored, but at least she has pants. Actually RD's artwork is probably just the best in that regard. Only girls like Mist are silly enough to wear dresses like that, and her stats stink! 

Isadora doesn't wear pants, either.  Huh, the "no pants for women" thing goes back further than I thought.  Then again, fanservice is one of those things that's going to exist whether I like it or not, so it has to be BAD before I complain about it.

In Ilia, pegasi only allow women to ride them, hence the lack of men.  Men go the cavalier route (a la Zealot).

Heartily agree on the RD art.  Mist is the only mounted unit that doesn't do pants.

2 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Could you give me your opinion on these armour designs?

Boob plates are dumb on both sexes.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

How are cavaliers in thongs less insulting than pegasus knights in skirts?

What skirts? Pegasus knights have always been depicted in long blouses parting past the crotch and rear, with knee high or longer boots. A similar design to Lyn though the official artwork usually covers enough skin that there's potentially some underwear.

Riders of horses, pegasi, and wyverns not wearing pants is the most absurd design choice I can think of regarding the artwork in this franchise. But it dates back to the game manual of Gaiden with Clair. I think Jill is the only female flier to be depicted in pants of some kind. And I can think of few female cavaliers with pants (mainly because female horseriders are just uncommon in general). Just Titania, Astrid, Fiona, and Sully that I can name. I'm not too up on artwork for the kaga games and 6.

Edit: oops, Sully doesn't make the list. I just never noticed those were boots and not pants. Put Maribelle in her slot.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Gustavos

[dap005]

Fe5 has a lot of women units wearing pants/trousers (same for riders if I can remember). Mareeta, Evyel and Machuya are some of my favourite designs. And guys wore thigh highs! Wonder how they would update Mayumi Hirota's designs. I love her work so would be interested to see if another artist can give a nice interpretation of her character designs. 

[Slumber]

11 minutes ago, dap005 said:

Fe5 has a lot of women units wearing pants/trousers (same for riders if I can remember). Mareeta, Evyel and Machuya are some of my favourite designs. And guys wore thigh highs! Wonder how they would update Mayumi Hirota's designs. I love her work so would be interested to see if another artist can give a nice interpretation of her character designs. 

Yup, every mounted female unit in FE5 wears pants, except for Nanna, who is wearing the same outfit she wears in FE4.

The pegasus riders in the Jugdral games might be the only pegasus riders in FE history to wear pants. Even Fee and Fury wear pants.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Slumber

[Baldrick]

18 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Boob plates are dumb on both sexes.

To be sure, but is Benny wearing one? I can't see any cleavage that would leave it beyond doubt.

[dap005]

8 minutes ago, Slumber said:

Yup, every mounted female unit in FE5 wears pants, except for Nanna, who is wearing the same outfit she wears in FE4.

The pegasus riders in the Jugdral games might be the only pegasus riders in FE history to wear pants. Even Fee and Fury wear pants.

I did a post about it once: http://danwensrandoms.tumblr.com/post/115714960399/the-previous-post-i-did-about-fe-female-riders-and

The whole no pants for girls thing is quite a common trope. That fe5 broke ofc. Mayumi's art was very much inspired by classic/old shoujo manga fantasy styles. 

[Vaximillian]

Y'all forget Tanith, the most sensibly clad pegasus knight in the series! :(

Shame on you, I say.

By the way (which probably is off-topic), I still can't see how Kris, Robin, or Corrin are supposed to be a player's self-insert. They are fully predetermined characters with fully predetermined personalities. The only input from the player is pure cosmetics: name, gender, and appearance. Kris, Robin, or Corrin aren't me.

[Augestein]

2 hours ago, eclipse said:

Isadora doesn't wear pants, either.  Huh, the "no pants for women" thing goes back further than I thought.  Then again, fanservice is one of those things that's going to exist whether I like it or not, so it has to be BAD before I complain about it.

In Ilia, pegasi only allow women to ride them, hence the lack of men.  Men go the cavalier route (a la Zealot).

Heartily agree on the RD art.  Mist is the only mounted unit that doesn't do pants.

Agreed. The only time I actually got irritated by fanservice is actually Mass Effect 2, and ironically enough, it was the male fanservice that was annoying. The female fanservice that was done was at least optional and albeit hilariously done because you were making your character act ridiculous and the characters reacted appropriately to it. 

I know, I was just saying that it's one of those things that you can't really complain either way because we can't see what a male rider looks like versus a female. 

And yeah, I love RD's artwork. Characters look pretty solid without being overly flashy. 

[Busterman64]

I saw that too. It kinda saddens me that's part of reason why he hasn't done an LP of a game in the series yet. Like @phineas81707 said, because of the type of Charisma he has, he has a tendency to change the outlooks of some thoughts on a game. You'd be surprised how many people actually get a game just because of his LPs! I hope he does one in the future, which ever one he does(although, if it's of Fates, he should let the heat around that game cool down some more before he does). I also imagine that part of his other reason is that RNG rules all. He can plan out most things in other RPG's and other games, but FE's games, depends somewhat on the game, is VERY unpredictable! And unless it's on Casual Mode, he's at risk of losing unit. And if he's like a lot of others, a unit death=reset, something that's quite time consuming for an LP(and unlike some games, he can't really do practice runs as easy either. It won't help as much). 

I really hope that doesn't hold him back from doing an Lp, since his has a tendency to be very informational lot of the time(which I, and many others, have come to enjoy)!

 

As for the fanbase, as much as I want there to be more unity, I imagine it's something that will more rely on IS's part. Games like the Gaiden remake seems like a move to bridge a gap between the two divisions. With a lot the "Waifu" slogan being thrown around starting Awakening and it honestly being amped up in Fates, I think it's something they want to try to minimize a bit. I will be first to say that, while not the worst thing in world, I think it should be tamed down a bit, but not gone. Just so both won't call "foul" or anything like that(if that makes sense)! There needs to be a bit of a balance between certain things for the sake of both sides(although, I kinda wish there wasn't a "two sides" honestly).

I will admit I think the older games are a bit better rounded then the newer games as a whole(and my issues with the newer AND older games may or may not be strong), but at the same time, I'm not so blind to see that both Awakening and Fates, despite their issues, are good games. I think people try to dictate what "should be" and not what "can be". Other opinions shouldn't be bashed just because they don't match with yours, but also that there isn't anything wrong with constructive criticism because I feel some fans of the newer games have to defend themselves in a way against those who complain about the newer ones at all. 

Also, I think the minority kinda makes the issue worse then it is. It's like someone's shadow looks much bigger then many others, but it's just because of how it's portrayed. Heck, there's was a guy who I saw in YT comments of a FE video(won't specifically say which one) who tried to defend Corrin on not being as bad as a lot think he is, but because of how he did it, it rubbed us all who read his stuff the wrong way, which kinda started an argument(and how he came off was kinda how I said before, what "should be" not what "can be"). He was being unreasonable. Even though someone else who liked Corrin like him said they could see why people might not like him(but that didn't help much)! It was only when someone said something that was similar to his opinion was when he seemed cool headed.

I am NOT trying to say everyone who's a new fan is like that(GOD NO! THAT would be quite insulting and I would be mad at myself if I ever did that), but I imagine some people out there are, which kinda start up the flames with other people and lead us to part of the issue with the fandom right now! 

Do I think this issue can ever be remedied? No. I doubt it ever will. No matter the fanbase, there will be conflicting issues no matter what you do.

Do I think the issue will be minimized? Yes. While problems may always be there(unfortunately), I feel like with time and understanding, the issue will slowly grow smaller and won't be as bad as it is now. I think once we get into a good swing of things(something I hope the Gaiden remake starts), we won't have such of a big issue. 

I love this series and I want it to grow to even better heights, but I don't want a giant division to ruin that. 

 

On 2/12/2017 at 6:56 AM, Sunwoo said:

In all seriousness, to give a less flippant answer, I don't think there's a way to make the FE community seem less "intimidating", and it seems presumptuous to assume that there's really anything we can do to make a difference. Neither the "old fans" or the "new fans" are wholly innocent or in the wrong. Same thing with old fans who like the new stuff and old fans who hate it. Every side has that one shithead who makes the rest of us look bad, and each faction points to people like that crying about how "see, all of those fans are like that!" No one wants to take the first step and admit that they may be in the wrong.

There's also a line between bashing a game unfairly, talking about why you don't like it a bit too much but still being within bounds, and discussing why you don't like it in a thread dedicated to that topic. There are people who do go around bashing the new games in threads that have nothing to do with it, and that's wrong. But you also have people who come into threads that are dedicated to such discussion, which have been perfectly civil, and act all high-and-mighty and be like, "people just want to whine about this game unfairly". Both sides need to recognize that they do it, and they both need to stop.

This. THIS is an issue that unfortunately EVERY fanbase has! And with the FE series as big as it is now, it's not a surprise that is now what it has. And seeing how there are two sides, it makes the flames even bolder then it if it was just one!

 

On 2/12/2017 at 8:17 AM, Dinar87 said:

As someone who used to be one type of elitist (started with awakening and thought it was the best thing ever), ended up being another type (played path of radiance and thought it was the best thing ever), and now has (hopefully) become more middle grounded, I can say that the real solution for me has been simple-actually play the damn games...all of them!!!

I used to have a massive hatred towards fates...until I played it and found out it wasn't that bad imo. I used to look down on classic fans as "nitpicking" and "bitching and whining like entitled children"...until I played the older games and finally saw how they had meaningful differences between them all. The key problem I'd say is that it's relatively difficult to not only get started (since the sheer amount of games to play might seem overwhelming) but also even playing some of the games is either very expensive or just flat out require emulators (which not everyone is comfortable with doing). 

This is why it's a real shame people like chuggaaconroy play the old "'x' fanbase is cancerous" card since what we really need these days is a way to encourage both sides to try out the other sides' favorite games and, through people like him giving both sides' games exposure, he could've potentially of made the fanbase less cancerous as both would eventually come to the realization that all games have their strengths and weaknesses and that it's all about personal preferences in the end.  

I think if the options to play all the games became more easy to access(the Tellius games being a prime example), it would help a bit. It's a bit of a crazy stretch, but if every game had a remake and "Casual Mode" added to it, it would help those who had issue getting into the older games, while still mostly maintaining what made those games good/enjoyable!

[KoimanZX]

To be honest, I see little reason why Chuggaaconroy should all that concerned. Sure, the fanbase has its divisions and conflicts, but the Fire Emblem's fanbase is not all that bad when all is considered. Even the Sonic fanbase, the most infamous of all fanbases, is not quite as bad as many say it is (speaking as a Sonic fan myself). Sure, there are figures like CWC and the like, but one needs to actively search for the bad parts of the fanbase (Peter Knetter has a good video on the subject on YouTube).

23 hours ago, Slumber said:

Hey now. I'm from Minnesota, and pretty much any time there's a string of -10F or lower temperatures, the first time there's a spike to 20F or more, people can't wait to bust out their shorts and t-shirts.

Granted, I doubt this was what IS was going for, but I actually didn't see that kind of thing as too out there. Then again, I'm also not a girl so I really didn't look at it like that, and I have no idea if skirts are remotely similar to shorts or t-shirts in terms of how external temperatures feel.

As a fellow Minnesotan, I can attest to that. I can also attest to wearing a skirt-like garment (I have worn a few kilts in my time with underwear) and I can say that it is certainly different than wearing shorts as, unlike with shorts, heat escapes a bit more easily from a kilt than with shorts. (I actually wore a kilt in March, which is practically still winter here in Minnesota). Sorry if I sound like I am arguing against your point, but I had to play Devil's Advocate.

[Eilanzer]

To be fair my country is SO hot that women walk almost naked everywhere...Hell we even go to the mall in swimsuit and sandal XD

So i don´t see much of a problem in the outfit in the games /o/

Edited February 14, 2017 by Eilanzer

[General Banzai]

What this fandom is great, this looks like a single person overreacting

[NoNameAtAll]

Even before Awakening, I felt the FE fanbase was a clusterfuck of drama, whining about differences between games and elitism. To me, this is nothing new. It just seems new because the series isn't so niche anymore.

Sacred Stones was decried for being such a drop in difficulty from Blazing Blade and not as interesting character-wise. PoR got some flack for removing Maniac Mode from the international releases (What!? Removal of features in FE before Fates? Egad!). Radiant Dawn was shat on because people didn't like Micaiah (Miccy-Sue etc) or how the supports became generic. By this point, Sacred Stones gained some more support.

Shadow Dragon was blasted for being too basic, which I'm fairly certain happened because of Radiant Dawn along with overall shitty sales for the Tellius games. By the time things started looking up, we didn't get New Mystery of the Emblem due to awful timing.

Petty squabbles over such things, including elitism, is nothing new at all. The only difference is that elitism (Hurr durr Awakening and Fates are cancer) has united more split factions (GBA is best, Tellius is best, Jugdral is best, etc) against a different kind of elitism (Hurr durr everything prior to Awakening is shit).

I'm honestly not surprised at all that such a conclusion would be derived. We're a microcosm of what plagues the Sonic fanbase. Split factions on classic vs. modern (With some splits in Sonic being stuff like the comics vs. the old shows vs. the games while FE has the different worlds/continents/etc.)

Edited February 14, 2017 by NoNameAtAll

[AlexArtsHere]

Having been a part of both this fanbase and the Sonic one, I don't think Chugaa's comparison are unfounded.While Sonic has had a greater variety of incarnations over the years, arguments between Sonic fans are generally the typical "old vs. new"/"2D vs 3D", with petty stuff like green eyes generally being overblown. It surprises me that the Fire Emblem fanbase can be so different at times. I've not seen it on this site (thank God), but I find that people love arguing over the minutia of a series that has been fairly consistent of the course of its life. That's not to say such complaints aren't valid, but it's surprising how heated debates can get.

But then there's the anime argument.

I find this whole anime thing pretty mind-boggling. Some people talk about it in terms of art style, some people refer to characters. Don't get me wrong, I understand complaints that characters are too tropey and exaggerated (even if they're too my tastes), and I think fanservice has increased in recent years, with Fates' costume design and Camilla being very egregious examples, but I think the root problem is how quickly aggression is achieved. Serenes is easily the tamest community in the fandom I've come across, but we still have some pretty heated debates here, and that's good. People are so very rarely insulting and I've never seen it affect community stuff such as modding (I'm not trying to tell the mods about how they're doing their job here, just making observations). It's sad to see that, on other sites and even in places like YouTube comments, people are so quick to personally attack another's character, calling them a lonely pervert for liking the newer games' waifuery, or a boring and obsessed nerd for preferring the more political stories of the older games. Liking any game in the series is fine. Nobody has to agree with you, and you don't have to agree with anybody else. Disliking a game doesn't mean you can't find any good at all in it, and I think the more extreme sections of the community need to stop taking sides unconditionally and open their minds to have engaging discussions about what Fire Emblem is to different people.

Peace.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

My only interactions with FE fans are the real life gamers I've turned on to this series over the years, and lurking these forums, so I'm at a loss as to what the toxic bits are. Thinking back, I've seen some thumbnails of youtube videos that bother me, mostly ones that want to tackle the hottest buzzword "censorship". But I've also seen very maturely written videos tackling the same subject. I also seen Etika's take on Fire Emblem, and I feel like his awakening videos were extremely endearing and funny. I may not play FE for the same reasons, but I also don't remember any written rules on how we enjoy video games. One of my best friends wanted to play FE so that he could incorporate Ike into his smash brothers comic, so I had him borrow FE9 and he felt the same magic I did with 8, that's how I never doubt these are good games.

The big question is how the series has really changed in the last 15 years. Fire Emblem is still a product by japanese people who don't want to be criticized by the west on how to write about sex and sexuality. It still innovates with its rules to a point where all of us got bodied by Fates because we felt Pair up wouldn't get complex enough that we'd need to read the quick tutorials. We still get characters unrelated to us asking if they can call us "brother" like Ross and Myrrh did in their supports. And Camilla's role in Fates is never larger than the role of catgirls in the Tellius series. Okay, Lethe didn't get the showgirl CG cutscene, but if IS had a larger budget ten years ago...

Biggest change in FE? I'd say it's behaving more like a franchise does. Awakening put a hundred characters with vintage artwork in as free, bonus content. Heroes and the upcoming Warriors are built on the idea of these great characters and stories intermingling. And they're remaking a previous title that is, for the first time, not FE1. They're willing to tell us new stories while celebrating the past. And with higher budgets they can do both in the span of one game instead of two released back to back. This has gotten me really optimistic about the future. And if people feel intimidated by fan bases they can always choose to just play the game in solitude. It will still be worth their time.

[BANRYU]

@ the OP, honestly I feel we kinda earn this reputation. The bulk of my interactions with the fanbase have been on Tumblr and on here-- and honestly the difference is pretty noticeable (at least in terms of the people that I watch / interact with on Tumblr).

There's a lot of SJW discourse and bitching about translations and whatnot on Tumblr especially in the pre-/post-release periods for games like Fates, but once that dies down I find that most of it is pretty simple, relatively harmless stuff-- lots of nice art, discussions about shipping, drawing/RPing with MUs and Fatesonas and such... I'm sure there's worse stuff as well, and I DID actually get a couple of anon hate messages for the Camilla article that I wrote on tumblr lol, but for the most part my experience has been positive. And I know a lot of people disdain the whole self-indulgent, self-insert material and 'waifuism/husbandoism' etc, but the thing is.... what does it really hurt....??

On SFF there are a lot of cool people too, don't get me wrong, but I recall seeing during my last major period of activity (mid/late in Awakening's lifespan up until the release of Smash 4) and now as well (though mercifully less so) a lot of criticism and complaints about the series, some thought-out and perfectly founded, but I still see a lot of complaints over things that are subjective, unreasonable, or misunderstood. And then there's the reputation of elitism that we, many of us being veteran fans, tend to have to the newcomers to the fanbase, calling them 'not true fans', criticizing them for using casual mode and being super indulgent with the shipping, etc.

The thing that I finally realized (might have taken me a bit long, granted ;; ), as someone else who was sort of elitist about permadeath and older game mechanics, etc. is that... like... shouldn't we welcome those people?? Shouldn't we accept them regardless of their experience and just... like... NOT be shitty toward them? Not only did the new generation of FE fans SAVE the series thanks to the success of Awakening, I've seen many a new fan who's been motivated to go back and try the older games as well. (This was my experience with Metroid frankly; where Prime 3 was my first game I played, but since then I've tried and loved them all save the 2s (just haven't played them though).)

From what I've seen there's been some decent improvement among the SFF community since my last period of major activity, but it's hard to deny that there are still a LOT of people who act this way toward newer and/or more casual fans. I think the best we can do is just try to set a personal example, and be accepting and supporting of our fellow fans as much as possible.. I learned a lot about this from the Monster Hunter community, which overall is pretty friendly and supportive amongst itself (gamefaqs seems to be an exception lol but what can you do). There are a LOT of polarizing elements in both the series and the fanbase, I know, but at the end of the day if it ain't hurting you, then who cares....? Let people like what they like and play the way they want to play, everyone enjoys things differently.

[Kobitohime]

so many people are bothered by the "fanservice" of newer game, kinda un-progressive in my opinion, telling women what they wear is ok or not, I fail to see why woman wearing revealing outfit is any less worthy of respect than women wearing less revealing one.

 

also gameplay have been progressively getting more complex and better, I fail to see how they are dumbed down compared to older game like some post here claim, I marathoned the series over 4 months started with Fe7, and I saw nothing but improvement except for the DS remake.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Kobitohime

[eclipse]

13 minutes ago, Kobitohime said:

so many people are bothered by the "fanservice" of newer game, kinda un-progressive in my opinion, telling women what they wear is ok or not, I fail to see why woman wearing revealing outfit is any less worthy of respect than women wearing less revealing one.

 

also gameplay have been progressively getting more complex and better, I fail to see how they are dumbed down compared to older game like some post here claim, I marathoned the series over 4 months started with Fe7, and I saw nothing but improvement except for the DS remake.

See, Conquest did it both right and wrong.

Nohr's up and up on the gender equality thing, with both men and women having relatively equal armor.  The difference is that men wear pants underneath, while women don't.  That's why there's things like Effie's battle thong.  I'm sure there's people that would LOVE to see Leo in his full get-up, sans pants (hint: think F!Corrin), but he wasn't drawn that way.  What's being criticized is the artist's choice of clothing (or lack thereof).

[NekoKnight]

21 minutes ago, Kobitohime said:

so many people are bothered by the "fanservice" of newer game, kinda un-progressive in my opinion, telling women what they wear is ok or not, I fail to see why woman wearing revealing outfit is any less worthy of respect than women wearing less revealing one.

There is a difference in a fictional character having revealing clothing and a real life person choosing what they wear. Fanservice in works of fiction is designed to titillate, not to empower the character (unless the character implies they chose their outfit for that reason).