I hope that we get an Avatar in this game.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

I like avatars for gameplay. Corrin excels in that aspect.

[Folt]

Avatar bring many things with them gameplay-wise that they're worth it for that alone.

That said, I actually like that they're rather prominent in the games they've appeared in (except in Blazing Sword). Even the fact that most characters end up praising the Avatar is something I don't mind, because it is generally true.

[Extrasolar]

I think a lot of the reason why Kris was so bad was because they were hamfistedly shoved into an already-established plot with already-established characters, and the story focused on kissing the ground they walked on and everyone bending over backwards to hail them as "teh greatest thing evar" in order to make them relevant, if not the most relevant person in the story, even to the detriment of the actual main character, making him look like a spineless wimp. And that is 100% not something we ever need.

Honestly, I think that Robin and Corrin were harmless to okay (personally I think the writing and plotting of both Awakening and Fates is subpar in general, so I can't exactly say that the Avatars "ruined" the writing or the story), because the games were written and built around their inclusion. With Robin, they were only one of the game's main characters and so the focus wasn't on them until the third act of the game when the Grimleal and Validar stepped forward into the spotlight. Corrin was the main character from the beginning, so people fawning over them made sense, though it was a little tiresome, in my opinion.

I honestly wouldn't mind an Avatar character in FE Switch mostly because it'll be an original (speaking in the vein of not being a remake) plot, provided that the game itself got a step up in writing quality from FE13 and FE14. I'd agree that Avatars generally work best as the non main character, or at least one of a few main characters.

I definitely agree with the notion that if an Avatar does return, many more customization options - background, starting class, general personality/outlook - as well as dialogue trees that perhaps influence the story, the Avatar's personality, or how other characters react to the Avatar would be good. They would flesh out the story and make it deeper.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Extrasolar

[GAIDENBRO]

Fuck avatars. They ruin everything they touch in Fire Emblem. Glad those mistakes are gone in Echoes.

[Dragonage2ftw]

3 hours ago, GAIDENBRO said:

Fuck avatars. They ruin everything they touch in Fire Emblem. Glad those mistakes are gone in Echoes.

Nah.

 

Every time an Avatar has been in FE, it's made the game better.

[Anacybele]

23 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Nah.

 

Every time an Avatar has been in FE, it's made the game better.

Your opinion, remember? Not fact.

I personally think the older titles are all better than Fates and Awakening. So an avatar does not make them better to me.

[Dragonage2ftw]

14 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Your opinion, remember? Not fact.

I personally think the older titles are all better than Fates and Awakening. So an avatar does not make them better to me.

Sure. When I say something like this, you're triggered.

 

But when that other guy complains about them, you remain quiet.

[Anacybele]

4 minutes ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

Sure. When I say something like this, you're triggered.

 

But when that other guy complains about them, you remain quiet.

...Wait, what? What the hell are you talking about? What other guy? I never saw any of this and I hadn't looked at this thread at all in ages. I didn't even know it was still being posted in until I went and posted in it just a little while ago.

Think before you accuse people of shit.

[Magical Glace]

Personally, I think the avatars have made the game worse in every single instance due to being broken gameplaywise (and in the case of Awakening and Fates, having a case of "My rules are not your rules" with everybody else) and a terrible mary sue storywise.

So yeah, opinions dude.

[Etrurian emperor]

I think that in some cases you can say Avatars made the story of fire emblem games worse. 

It must have been a design decision that Corrin, the player character can never be wrong but in order for this to happen the story needs to bend itself in all manner of ways to ensure Corrin's hands stay clean. Kotaro is my favorite example. Corrin can't work with such a nasty character so the sneaky pragmatist lord just goes around betraying Norh because Corrin acts offended by him having an enemy as a prisoner of war. Its weird for Corrin to make a problem of that to begin with and its completely out of character for Kotaro to react the way he does. How does a pragmatist benefit from turning on a much stronger kingdom while already having betrayed Hoshido and why doesn't he just let the captive go if  its that important to Corrin. And this is just one of the many situations where you can see the story twisting itself for Corrin's sake.

But I'm not against an Avatar. I would prefer to go without one but I'm fine there's an avatar unit, just as long as the writers learned from what went wrong with Corrin.

As for Robin, I don't believe he pushes Chrom into the background to much. Awakening has three story arc and only the last one can be said to belong to Robin. The first arc is clearly that of Chrom. We learn about him, his family and his kingdom, and Chrom gets his character development. The Valm arc is less Chrom centered but its not really the Robin show either. With Chrom's boss conversations with Walhard and that female general you could say they tried to contrast these rulers which makes the arc belong more to Chrom than it does to Robin. 
By the time of the third arc I'd say Robin deserved the spotlight being given to him. 
 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Etrurian emperor

[Anacybele]

Chrom got development? I sure didn't see it.

[Roflolxp54]

I honestly don't mind avatars as long as player worship doesn't get ridiculous. And this is present in every FE game that features an avatar.

Blazing Blade: Despite not even being playable, Mark does get his own character ending based on the overall rank of the playthrough, with overall A or S rank causing Etruria and Bern to go to WAR in order to recruit him for his brilliance in tactics. (Basically the game worshipping the player for playing the game well)

New Mystery of the Emblem: Kris receives feedback based on how high one of his stats are by a certain story point and how many allies are alive. He also spends a lot of time with Marth onscreen (considering that Marth is betrothed to Caeda) and is basically Marth's right-hand man. He also gets his own substory arc of sorts due to his being a friend of Katarina. (Once again, the game worshipping the player by dedicating extra gaiden chapters for the player)

And we've already seen what goes on in Awakening, Fates, and Heroes.

[Augestein]

6 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

Personally, I think the avatars have made the game worse in every single instance due to being broken gameplaywise (and in the case of Awakening and Fates, having a case of "My rules are not your rules" with everybody else) and a terrible mary sue storywise.

So yeah, opinions dude.

Honestly, Corrin is only really "broken" because of the final weapon more than anything else. Before then, Corrin doesn't have bases that are much better than a level 1 Mozu. And his/her growths aren't much better outside of hp. Each Avatar has been better than the last in terms of balance, so I'm not really seeing this at all. The biggest problem with Corrin is that he/she gets a bunch of extra chapters that no one else does. Ditto for Kris. 

 

4 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

Blazing Blade: Despite not even being playable, Mark does get his own character ending based on the overall rank of the playthrough, with overall A or S rank causing Etruria and Bern to go to WAR in order to recruit him for his brilliance in tactics. (Basically the game worshipping the player for playing the game well)

New Mystery of the Emblem: Kris receives feedback based on how high one of his stats are by a certain story point and how many allies are alive. He also spends a lot of time with Marth onscreen (considering that Marth is betrothed to Caeda) and is basically Marth's right-hand man. He also gets his own substory arc of sorts due to his being a friend of Katarina. (Once again, the game worshipping the player by dedicating extra gaiden chapters for the player)

That's not avatar worship. The game basically says the aftermath of you being a great tactician. That's not worship at all. Especially when you consider that it doesn't say very nice things if you get a C rank. 

And? None of this is even remotely close to worship. It's more akin to giving you an introduction because you're the avatar, so it's from your perspective. That's not even remotely close to worship. 

Hell, even Robin isn't worshipped like people claim. Corrin is the closest thing to Avatar worship, and in comparison to Ike, it's really tame. 

[Dragonage2ftw]

23 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Chrom got development? I sure didn't see it.

After his sister dies, he becomes less of a "fight first, talk later" type of dude, and he becomes less sure of himself as a whole.

 

[Azz]

4 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

After his sister dies, he becomes less of a "fight first, talk later" type of dude, and he becomes less sure of himself as a whole.

 

Too bad that happens right before the game ends. Oh and if you get any supports with Corrin between then and the final chapters, that 'development' is gone out the window.

[NekoKnight]

 

On Tuesday, April 04, 2017 at 2:28 AM, Glaceon Mage said:

Personally, I think the avatars have made the game worse in every single instance due to being broken gameplaywise (and in the case of Awakening and Fates, having a case of "My rules are not your rules" with everybody else) and a terrible mary sue storywise.

So yeah, opinions dude.

What do you mean by "My rules are not your rules"? 

[BrightBow]

11 hours ago, Dragonage2ftw said:

After his sister dies, he becomes less of a "fight first, talk later" type of dude, and he becomes less sure of himself as a whole.

I don't see it. He burned thousands of people alive without the slightest hesitation. And as for his self confidence, in front of Wallhart he suddenly starts talking big about "uniting the world". He also thinks that he will be able to easily succeed in Narga's trial. He also vehemently insists that Robin accompanies him, despite the revelation that Validar is able to freely control her. A position he defends just as vehemently against Lucina, despite her coming from a time where Robin did indeed kill Chrom. He is just as insistent that Robin should not sacrifice herself, not even acknowledging his responsibilities as a king. He also never showed the slightest hint of doubt about how he treated Plegia after the war, even after Aversa spelled it out to him that Chrom's actions or lack thereof helped the Grimleal to gain power.

Chrom may have moments that in isolation may look like they are part of a character arc but there is no continuity between them. Like, in Chapter 6 he tells Robin that the Plegians "rightfully remembers their suffering". Yet in chapter 11 he is utterly shocked by the realization that the Plegian would "deep down" desire peace, as if he was an Avenger who until this point never considered that the Plegians may be anything but pure evil. Him supposedly trying to live up to the memory of his peace loving sister also never caused him to hesitate in the war against Valm, both in the way he started an invasion of his own and in the cruelty of his methods. And I already mentioned how he suddenly claims towards Wallhart that he would unite the world himself, which came completely out of nowhere and was forgotten immediately after.

But I absolutely do agree that Chrom's character isn't overshadowed by Robin. Chrom is inconsistently written but that inconsistency can't actually be traced back to Robin in any way. At least in the first two arcs. The Grima arc is a different matter entirely.

Edited April 5, 2017 by BrightBow

[NoirCore]

On 4/3/2017 at 10:10 AM, Dragonage2ftw said:

Nah.

 

Every time an Avatar has been in FE, it's made the game better.

You're going to have to elaborate quite a bit. These brief, one-sentence answers of yours, given the context of how people usually view avatars (or at least the fashion of the implementation of them) come off as trollish and not really constructive or insightful.

I don't even entirely agree with @GAIDENBRO, as the main problem isn't the avatars touching the game, but rather them being implemented in as a very important character in the plot when you factor in how they're supposed to be blank characters to avoid conflicting with your personality...at least, that's what they're supposed to be, but I think Corrin and Robin don't even follow that accurately, and that sorta causes a mess.

I'd be happy if future avatars were just optional, plot-irrelevant create-a-units that continue to get better at not breaking the game. That way, I can create units in peace and satisfaction.

[Magical Glace]

4 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

 

What do you mean by "My rules are not your rules"? 

In Awakening, the avatar can reclass to anything gender-compatible besides special classes (lord, dancer, villager, conqueror, manakete, and taguel), while all the other first gen characters are limited to three.

In Fates, from what I understand, The Avatar can reclass into a same gendered other character's class with just an A support, of which they get an unlimited amount, while other characters need a one-person A+.  

Edited April 5, 2017 by Glaceon Mage

[NekoKnight]

18 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:

In Awakening, the avatar can reclass to anything gender-compatible besides special classes (lord, dancer, villager, conqueror, manakete, and taguel), while all the other first gen characters are limited to three.

In Fates, from what I understand, The Avatar can reclass into a same gendered other character's class with just an A support, of which they get an unlimited amount, while other characters need a one-person A+.  

I see. I don't think that's a serious problem, as you still need at least a A support for Corrin and it's your choice if you want to reclass/grind in Awakening. I'm more concerned with how Avatars break the narrative than gameplay.  You don't get to choose whether or not the former happens.

[Luchi]

On 4/4/2017 at 2:33 AM, Augestein said:

 

Hell, even Robin isn't worshipped like people claim. Corrin is the closest thing to Avatar worship, and in comparison to Ike, it's really tame. 

i'm probably the only person on this forum that agrees with this...

[Magical Glace]

6 minutes ago, Luchi said:

i'm probably the only person on this forum that agrees with this...

Nah, I agree as well, though moreso FE10 Ike.

Though unlike Corrin I will acknowlege that Ike at least did something to earn it, even though I don't like how much worship he gets.

[Dragonage2ftw]

4 hours ago, Luchi said:

i'm probably the only person on this forum that agrees with this...

Nah.

 

I also agree.

[Folt]

4 hours ago, Luchi said:

i'm probably the only person on this forum that agrees with this...

Actually, I agree as well.

Even the stuff that most people say plays up the player worship doesn't really bother me because the Avatar character is usually the tactician and the strategist of the games they are in (in particular, Mark, Robin, Kiran, and even Corrin, manage the battlefield and the units on it, so victory is not only earned from the leadership of the lords, but also through the strategies and tactics of those particular characters who so happens to be extensions of the player).

[Interdimensional Observer]

10 minutes ago, Folt said:

Even the stuff that most people say plays up the player worship doesn't really bother me because the Avatar character is usually the tactician and the strategist of the games they are in (in particular, Mark, Robin, Kiran, and even Corrin, manage the battlefield and the units on it, so victory is not only earned from the leadership of the lords, but also through the strategies and tactics of those particular characters who so happens to be extensions of the player).

Tacticians are important, but they too can be subject to too much worship. See Suikoden 2- Shu never slips up, never. He is Mr. Perfect who even escapes what you think is going to be his death sequence. Only Luca Blight challenges his talents and even that he overcomes with a little help from the other side. Mathieu in Suikoden 1 was much the same, and I've heard S3's strategist might be the same way as well.

Musou does it well. Yes you get things like the Motonari Mori-Jia Xu vs. Dong Zhuo and Yuan Shao battle in WO3 where tacticians own, but then you get other battles where the brutes rule the day.