What is your unpopular Fire Emblem opinion?

[Samz707]

53 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Like I said they’re a kuudere. That’s kind of how these kinds if characters work. They start off mostly deadpan and show little emotion but begin to open up and show those emotions overtime due to varying circumstances. 

 

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the dialogue options in those supports lean more towards trying to convince Ferdinand to not charge in recklessly and get himself killed.

The problem is Byleth shows emotion from the start with Alois.

Not in the first one, she seemingly let Ferdinand grab a spear and charge out into the forest without challenging him, then seemingly let him try to fight two Divine Beasts alone  long enough for him to realise that his lance was doing no damage, which seems long enough to potentially get torn apart several times over.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Samz707

[Ottservia]

3 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

The problem is Byleth shows emotion from the start with Alois.

Isn’t it stated somewhere that Byleth can still feel emotion, they just have a hard time expressing it. Like they can still get angry, sad, happy, etc. but they’re expression or body language doesn’t change to match.

[vanguard333]

8 hours ago, ping said:

Fates's approach of giving every character an individual set of reclass option should have completely and irrevocably obsoleted any form of gender-locked classes.

I know that 3H didn't carry over that approach and I can respect that - but if you want to allow silly builds similar to Dark Mage Cord or Warrior Yubello, why would you stop halfway and forbid Pegasus Knight Dedue because he's a boy?

I'm pretty sure the majority of fans think Three Houses bringing back gender-locked classes was a bad decision. 

As for pegasus knight Dedue specifically, there's already a perfectly good reason not to have Dedue as a pegasus knight: he sucks at flying.

[Butter Dog]

mmmm... unpopulars opninions.🤔

* I really don't like the berkut/rinnea ship

*shadow dragon is  fun to play

*im not palla/catria fan.

+haneman needs more love

+ CF was short but i really enjoyed it

+ rhea should be playable on the church route

[Etrurian emperor]

4 hours ago, Samz707 said:

The problem is Byleth shows emotion from the start with Alois.

Yes though technically he/she can get away with that since its Alois. Everyone is at ease with Alois. 

[ping]

22 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I'm pretty sure the majority of fans think Three Houses bringing back gender-locked classes was a bad decision. 

As for pegasus knight Dedue specifically, there's already a perfectly good reason not to have Dedue as a pegasus knight: he sucks at flying.

Yeah, I just wanted to give my $.50 on the genderlock discussion that was going on already. I have no idea how unpopular or Basic Bitch my stance on that is.

RE: Dedue: I assume that means that he has a Flying bane? I do like the concept of talent boons and banes, since it allows the player to meme around a little. In a way, it might be 3H's equivalent of using characters like Sophia or Yubello.

(obligatory disclaimer that I'm still fairly ignorant about 3H story and gameplay meta, since Deltre refuses to continue a LP past the earlygame)

[vanguard333]

48 minutes ago, ping said:

RE: Dedue: I assume that means that he has a Flying bane? I do like the concept of talent boons and banes, since it allows the player to meme around a little. In a way, it might be 3H's equivalent of using characters like Sophia or Yubello.

(obligatory disclaimer that I'm still fairly ignorant about 3H story and gameplay meta, since Deltre refuses to continue a LP past the earlygame)

Yes, it means that he has a flying bane. 

[Etrurian emperor]

On 1/18/2021 at 10:29 PM, doggowaffles said:

+ rhea should be playable on the church route

Yes. Aside from the church route I also think it would be thematically fitting for her to have been around during the Blue Lion campaign. With Verdant Wind it works as a plotpoint that Rhea is out of commission. It allows her system to have utterly failed and the somewhat anti church Claude to set up a new system in its place. 

But with Azure Moon it is more fitting if Rhea were still around. She and Dimitri are birds of a feather, and considering Dimitri's corruption is the big theme it would be interesting to have a character around who already went through that same corruption. Either Rhea can try to help him because she can empathize with the desire for revenge driving him insane, or Rhea can relapse, causing her to egg on Dimitri's insanity and vice versa. 

[joevar]

On 1/19/2021 at 4:29 AM, doggowaffles said:

I really don't like the berkut/rinnea ship

why tho.

On 1/19/2021 at 4:29 AM, doggowaffles said:

*shadow dragon is  fun to play

understandable, have a good day

On 1/19/2021 at 4:29 AM, doggowaffles said:

rhea should be playable on the church route

actually quite popular i believe, considering she has her battle model

On 1/19/2021 at 2:57 AM, vanguard333 said:

As for pegasus knight Dedue specifically, there's already a perfectly good reason not to have Dedue as a pegasus knight: he sucks at flying.

just people being stubborn.
A "hey you should not try this, its bad will yield worst result, etc, etc"
B "oh? then let me try it."

or just natural reaction of some people that like to go against whatever they told not to

[X-Naut]

1 minute ago, joevar said:

why tho.

Because Berkut is dominant to an unhealthy degree and Rinea is too meek to challenge it, so it was liable to turn abusive even without Alm muscling in on his turf.

[joevar]

1 hour ago, X-Naut said:

Because Berkut is dominant to an unhealthy degree and Rinea is too meek to challenge it, so it was liable to turn abusive even without Alm muscling in on his turf.

oh, i tend to forgot that part. good point

[Ottservia]

1 hour ago, X-Naut said:

Because Berkut is dominant to an unhealthy degree and Rinea is too meek to challenge it, so it was liable to turn abusive even without Alm muscling in on his turf.

Another thing that rubs me the wrong way about Berkut and Rinea’s relationship(in addition to that) is that Rinea still refers to him with honorifics which if their love is supposed to be mutual then shouldn’t they be on a first name basis? I get they want to convey the idea that she’s fairly meek and timid so it kind of makes sense for her to have that level of formality but I still think there was a better way to convey that.

[NaotoUzumaki]

Personally it’s the avatar pandering for no reason.In game’s you’re worshiped for no reason at all.Bernadetta who shouldn’t even follow your lessons and run away feels comfortable just cause Byleth has Sothis inside of them.If I actually helped her problems and was showed her growth like Marianne I would be fine.Another unpopular peeve of mine if forced choices with the illusion of control.Like asking who Lonato is or why he is doing that rebellion.Oh ok....you’re just gonna tell me anyway then why did you make choose like a dumbass if it was pointless anyway.Ever since Awakening that trend has become more common in FE but became much worse in gaming period since 2019 onward.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

Personally it’s the avatar pandering for no reason.In game’s you’re worshiped for no reason at all.Bernadetta who shouldn’t even follow your lessons and run away feels comfortable just cause Byleth has Sothis inside of them.If I actually helped her problems and was showed her growth like Marianne I would be fine.Another unpopular peeve of mine if forced choices with the illusion of control.Like asking who Lonato is or why he is doing that rebellion.Oh ok....you’re just gonna tell me anyway then why did you make choose like a dumbass if it was pointless anyway.Ever since Awakening that trend has become more common in FE but became much worse in gaming period since 2019 onward.

Well at least the choices in Three Houses pretty frequently give you support bonuses or antibounuses(?) with certain characters, rather than being literally pointless like in Awakening. Sometimes in Three Houses there also just shamelessly using it as a way to have Byleth talk without breaking the idea of a silent protagonist. Speaking of which, I hope I'm not alone in thinking Byleth would have been better off as a silent protagonist rather than a "silent"  protagonist. Ie, I think they should have let them speak but just be generally low on talking by nature.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Jotari

[ping]

34 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well at least the choices in Three Houses pretty frequently give you support bonuses or antibounuses(?) with certain characters, rather than being literally pointless like in Awakening. Sometimes in Three Houses there also just shamelessly using it as a way to have Byleth talk without breaking the idea of a silent protagonist. Speaking of which, I hope I'm not alone in thinking Byleth would have been better off as a silent protagonist rather than a "silent"  protagonist. Ie, I think they should have let them speak but just be generally low on talking by nature.

I absolutely loathe any "support points from picking the ~correct~ dialogue option" mechanic. Instead of playing a character (or yourself, if you prefer that), you're rewarded for constantly trying to figure out what the dialogue partner wants you to say. Remember kids, the best way to romance someone is to never tell them what you actually think or feel!

Give me actual branching story outcomes depending on your decisions all day, but that "pick A for love points" bullshit can fuck right off.

Spoiler

 

 

[Samz707]

1 hour ago, ping said:

I absolutely loathe any "support points from picking the ~correct~ dialogue option" mechanic. Instead of playing a character (or yourself, if you prefer that), you're rewarded for constantly trying to figure out what the dialogue partner wants you to say. Remember kids, the best way to romance someone is to never tell them what you actually think or feel!

Give me actual branching story outcomes depending on your decisions all day, but that "pick A for love points" bullshit can fuck right off.

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Doesn't 3H also semi-regularly award you support for outright terrible advice that's basically just saying what the other person wants to hear rather than legitimate advice? I'm pretty sure it does that a few times.

Which sticks out more since Blyeths a teacher and should kinda be doing the opposite of that.

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, ping said:

I absolutely loathe any "support points from picking the ~correct~ dialogue option" mechanic. Instead of playing a character (or yourself, if you prefer that), you're rewarded for constantly trying to figure out what the dialogue partner wants you to say. Remember kids, the best way to romance someone is to never tell them what you actually think or feel!

Give me actual branching story outcomes depending on your decisions all day, but that "pick A for love points" bullshit can fuck right off.

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Especially since it punishes you for skipping dialogue. In a game that's painful enough to replay already.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, ping said:

I absolutely loathe any "support points from picking the ~correct~ dialogue option" mechanic. Instead of playing a character (or yourself, if you prefer that), you're rewarded for constantly trying to figure out what the dialogue partner wants you to say. Remember kids, the best way to romance someone is to never tell them what you actually think or feel!

Give me actual branching story outcomes depending on your decisions all day, but that "pick A for love points" bullshit can fuck right off.

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I can certainly see that as an argument (and funny video!). But it at least is a mechanic, and I prefer the game actually doing something with a choice instead of it being basically a waste of time like in Awakening.

[Etrurian emperor]

7 hours ago, NaotoUzumaki said:

nother unpopular peeve of mine if forced choices with the illusion of control.Like asking who Lonato is or why he is doing that rebellion.Oh ok....you’re just gonna tell me anyway then why did you make choose like a dumbass if it was pointless anyway.Ever since Awakening that trend has become more common in FE but became much worse in gaming period since 2019 onward.

I think the bigger problem is that Byleth the teacher has to ask to have basic things like the knights of Seiros or the western church explained to him by his students, despite being the teacher. It makes him look bad at his job.

[Metal Flash]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well at least the choices in Three Houses pretty frequently give you support bonuses or antibounuses(?) with certain characters, rather than being literally pointless like in Awakening. Sometimes in Three Houses there also just shamelessly using it as a way to have Byleth talk without breaking the idea of a silent protagonist. Speaking of which, I hope I'm not alone in thinking Byleth would have been better off as a silent protagonist rather than a "silent"  protagonist. Ie, I think they should have let them speak but just be generally low on talking by nature.

i also wish Byleth was just a quiet, stoic character rather than a "silent" protagonist. I feel that, by making them an actual character, them becoming more talkitive and emotive over time is much more noticable. It would also let their relationships with others develop more properly. I just feel Byleth would`ve been better of as a actual character, rather than a player self-insert.

[Samz707]

24 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the bigger problem is that Byleth the teacher has to ask to have basic things like the knights of Seiros or the western church explained to him by his students, despite being the teacher. It makes him look bad at his job.

Pretty much.

I mean okay, we have books for lore in the game? and from what I'm aware, the "Journal" is just new-game plus stuff (as well as changing outfits.), why not have Byleth already have this stuff written down in the Journal (and maybe even give the player access to it at the start? in some fashion?) and re-word the dialogue I guess to be more Byleth asking for a reminder/if anything's changed instead of seemingly being completely alien to it.

Or at least lean into it, Characters really don't seem that surprised if I remember considering how sheltered Byleth seems to have be. (Granted, I can at least buy Jeralt intentionally doing this in regards to the church considering his distrust of them.)

[Etrurian emperor]

2 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

I mean okay, we have books for lore in the game? and from what I'm aware, the "Journal" is just new-game plus stuff (as well as changing outfits.), why not have Byleth already have this stuff written down in the Journal (and maybe even give the player access to it at the start? in some fashion?) and re-word the dialogue I guess to be more Byleth asking for a reminder/if anything's changed instead of seemingly being completely alien to it.

Or since Byleth is a teacher have them give the option to explain it to a student if they ask, or ignore it. Each house has a ''fish out of water'' that would asks such basic question. The Beagles have Petra who's a foreigner, the Blions have Dedue who's also a foreigner and the Deers have Leonie who's a country bumpkin.

[ping]

54 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Doesn't 3H also semi-regularly award you support for outright terrible advice that's basically just saying what the other person wants to hear rather than legitimate advice? I'm pretty sure it does that a few times.

One thing that I remember from way back when Deltre was still uploading is one pupil (don't remember who) complaining to Byleth that "UGH student B always does this thing and it's THE WORST" and you get support points for agreeing that student B should stop doing the thing.

Then you talk to student B, who goes, "man, student A always complains about the thing, but it really isn't that bad, is it?". Naturally, you get bonus points for telling him that he doesn't need to worry and should just keep doing the thing.

(The Thing might have been eating too fast? I'm completely blanking on who the pupils were, though)

59 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

Which sticks out more since Blyeths a teacher and should kinda be doing the opposite of that.

Absolutely.

14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I can certainly see that as an argument (and funny video!). But it at least is a mechanic, and I prefer the game actually doing something with a choice instead of it being basically a waste of time like in Awakening.

Awakening choices have a completely different pretense, though. They look like they should be a huge, world-changing deal, but apart from like five lines of dialogues immediately after, they don't matter at all and the two "timelines" just immediately recombine. The 3H dating sim choices don't give that illusion - they're visibly just everyday trivialities, but since there's a "correct" answer, you're encouraged to lie to everybody so that they like you more, instead of using those little interactions to give a little personal spin on "your" Byleth, or answering in a way that's in line with how you read Byleth's character.

I much prefer the implementation in some of the older Final Fantasy games (I'm specifically thinking of 7 and 10) where these dialogue options prompt an immediate response (Aeris will be annoyed if Cloud will say "Oh, I remember - you're the slum drunk" when they meet for the 2nd time; Tidus can really catch Rikku off guard with some more flirtatious lines) and potentially some cutscenes later in the game (most famously the date in FF7), but they don't have an impact on the gameplay "crunch", while supports in FE have a tangible effect on the numbers game.

Bit of "Old man yells at cloud" vibes, I know

[Jotari]

19 minutes ago, Metal Flash said:

i also wish Byleth was just a quiet, stoic character rather than a "silent" protagonist. I feel that, by making them an actual character, them becoming more talkitive and emotive over time is much more noticable. It would also let their relationships with others develop more properly. I just feel Byleth would`ve been better of as a actual character, rather than a player self-insert.

Even some of the lines we have already would work better with a voiced Byleth. Like right now they have loads of lines with characters noting that Byleth is a silent type and talking about their expressions. With Byleth actually having any character to express it comes across as more of an "As you know" comment about something that is really obvious in uniderse, but wouldn't necessarily be obvious to us, as the levels of reality at play means we could be imagining a silent protagonist as a talkative character. But they need to make it clear for the story that Byleth actually is mostly silent and expressionless, so having the characters outright tell you feels a bit awkward. Now if Byleth talked just a bit and expressed some of their own view points, such comments about them, well for one wouldn't be needed quite as much, and for two would look like the characters have a keener insight into Byleth rather than them just stating the obvious. Silent protagonists could work for a lot of rpg roles, but of all the settings they could have picked, making our Fire Emblem silent protagonist (always going to be a hurdle because of supports) a teacher, where they're meant to be actively guiding and frequently talking to others seems like it was a poor decision. And they go an extra mile and have Byleth a voice in their head they're (one sidedly) conversing with. It's actually amazing that Byleth works as well as they do as a silent protagonist (which I admit isn't absolutely terrible) with all the poor choices that seem to have been made.

[Metal Flash]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Even some of the lines we have already would work better with a voiced Byleth. Like right now they have loads of lines with characters noting that Byleth is a silent type and talking about their expressions. With Byleth actually having any character to express it comes across as more of an "As you know" comment about something that is really obvious in uniderse, but wouldn't necessarily be obvious to us, as the levels of reality at play means we could be imagining a silent protagonist as a talkative character. But they need to make it clear for the story that Byleth actually is mostly silent and expressionless, so having the characters outright tell you feels a bit awkward. Now if Byleth talked just a bit and expressed some of their own view points, such comments about them, well for one wouldn't be needed quite as much, and for two would look like the characters have a keener insight into Byleth rather than them just stating the obvious. Silent protagonists could work for a lot of rpg roles, but of all the settings they could have picked, making our Fire Emblem silent protagonist (always going to be a hurdle because of supports) a teacher, where they're meant to be actively guiding and frequently talking to others seems like it was a poor decision. And they go an extra mile and have Byleth a voice in their head they're (one sidedly) conversing with. It's actually amazing that Byleth works as well as they do as a silent protagonist (which I admit isn't absolutely terrible) with all the poor choices that seem to have been made.

Agreed, it just works much better if we ca clearly see Byleth changing overtime as supposed to just being told about it.