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Power Creep and Changing Gacha Philosphy in Heroes

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The main page has an article by @VincentASM https://serenesforest.net/2017/10/19/heroes-opinion-ayra-sets-dangerous-precedent/#disqus_thread that discusses the questionable practices of releasing Ayra in a repeatie banner.  I wanted to focus a bit on a coinciding aspect of the problem.

This new questionable marketing strategy also coincides with the blatant power creep going on in the past couple months.  We had 7 months or so where IS was pretty good about keeping things in check.  No game breaking skills and each movement type had a set BST to work with.  After CYL, that went all out the window.  Legendary weapons went above their  second rung skill on top of 16 Might to now having the equivalent of two third rung skills for no apparent reason.  On top of that Ike and Lyn got a 5 BST bonus for no apparent reason.  If it was a one time thing awarded to the CYL winners, I could have lived with it, but now both Sigurd and Ayra got the BST bonus and overpowered Legendary weapons for and I'm worried this is going to be a new trend which will make all the old units overshadowed in every way.  They could have made good units staying within the established parameters of the game.  This level of power creep when the game isn't even a year old is concerning, they could have at least waited for the game to settle or stagnate and need a kick in the knees to rejuvenate it, but it was still going strong and all these changes are too soon and unnecessary.

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One thing people seem to be forgetting is that the Falchion is the first 16MT weapon to have two passives. Though the renewal effect is not at its highest tier, one could argue the Stat +3 skills present on these super weapons isn't a groundbreaking second passive either. Compound this with the addition of consecutive map modes making Falchion wielders even better.

I'm pleased to hear that people are concerned about power creep. For a while, this sub forum sounded largely indifferent, or otherwise challenging the definition of "power creep" whenever the subject was brought up. But I think what's got people riled up most is just the distribution of Ayra specifically. Yes, it's difficult to pull her, but she's not seasonal. I sincerely wish people were this loud in April, because I'm still furious that we can't pull seasonal units again. They are empty voids in my Catalogue.

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The stat boosts for Ayra and Sigurd is what bothers me the most. I could see why they would do it for Brave Lyn and Brave Ike as a special occasion, but these are two normal units.

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The funny thing is that apparently Sigurd and Ayra are more deserving of the +5 BST bonus than Brave Roy or Brave Lucina, the other 2 winner of CYL.

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I read Vincent's article, but I have the reaction to much of the controversy regarding Ayra is overblown for one reason: if you play a gacha game, you have to expect the worst. 

It is designed to be a shitty, manipulative system, and the way to get people paying into a shitty, manipulative system is to offer them a carrot, with the stick being that the carrot will go away. We've learned with FEH one thing: if there's a really popular summon, everyone pays into it, with the others being ignored. I'm willing to bet no one paid into the focus for Minerva while the dancer focus was going unless they had a heavy overdose of orbs., for example.

Everything that is going on with FEH right now is working as intended. They know Ayra is extremely popular. They know the other units are popular to a lesser extent. So put some super skills on them, and separate Ayra into another focus that has two characters everyone has and don't care about (Eldigan isn't at 500HM for me). More people spending orbs into more areas, and ohbytheway the dancer focus is still going. Three focuses ending within days of each other with timed, desired units. I'm willing to bet their internals look FANTASTIC on this.

Vincent mentions that this game is better than other gachas. He's right; I've only played a few (P&D, Tales and Fate GO, the latter of which is terrible), but reported on the industry long enough to know how bad it can truly get. But with this system and the focus on making money that it has, things are going to escalate. Power creep is a thing in games like this for a reason; it's how to get players to keep spending, and you're not going to do that with Defiant Atk. This was inevitable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes, we found out that more math was skewing the up-front numbers. If you'd told me that in the Tempest focus that Ayra had a lower pull chance than the Incest Twins, or if they were lowering the 5* rate for whales, I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

Vince is right. This is a bad precedent. But it was designed to be a bad precedent and I'm shocked we didn't hit it sooner.

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The reason i'm "mad" is that this is the first time, in my experience with this game, that a banner has been specifically set up so people will whale for a particular character.  IS will make money, considering the amount of people who use +10 merged units at the top tier of arena.  These whales will likely have to spend double(?) to get Ayra due to Eldigan.  It's kind of funny, though, that people are sleeping on Arden.  He has the potential to be pretty good.  Remember, before Black Knight we got so-so rewards like Tobin, Clive, and Masked Marth.  Arden is a cut above them.  I'm also happy that I got a new red mage in Arvis.

My hope is that enough fans will get upset and IS will:

  1. Give Ayra as a free unit to all players who did not summon her
  2. Give a witch Camilla away to all players to make up for no Ayra
  3. Make a Halloween banner already

And, to be fair, I don't necessarily think that powercreep is a huge factor in this game.  It's easy to defeat most units.  The AI is pretty stupid, and can be manipulated easily.  Like baiting; Brave Lyn always attacks my Tiki even though Mulagir does 0 damage and Tiki's counterattack kills her.  Arena matches don't go more than 5 turns usually.  I'm pretty sure Ayra is one-shotted by Reinhardt (like everyone else).   

Edited by Charmeleonbrah

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1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

One thing people seem to be forgetting is that the Falchion is the first 16MT weapon to have two passives. Though the renewal effect is not at its highest tier, one could argue the Stat +3 skills present on these super weapons isn't a groundbreaking second passive either. Compound this with the addition of consecutive map modes making Falchion wielders even better.

I'm pleased to hear that people are concerned about power creep. For a while, this sub forum sounded largely indifferent, or otherwise challenging the definition of "power creep" whenever the subject was brought up. But I think what's got people riled up most is just the distribution of Ayra specifically. Yes, it's difficult to pull her, but she's not seasonal. I sincerely wish people were this loud in April, because I'm still furious that we can't pull seasonal units again. They are empty voids in my Catalogue.

I remember having brought up Falchion having an extra bonus before, but even that could have been taken as an "effective bonus" along the lines of Armorslayer or Ridersbane, which is still a but above the usual Legendaries, but not as blatantly power creeped as the new Legendaries.

5 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

The reason i'm "mad" is that this is the first time, in my experience with this game, that a banner has been specifically set up so people will whale for a particular character.  IS will make money, considering the amount of people who use +10 merged units at the top tier of arena.  These whales will likely have to spend double(?) to get Ayra due to Eldigan.  It's kind of funny, though, that people are sleeping on Arden.  He has the potential to be pretty good.  Remember, before Black Knight we got so-so rewards like Tobin, Clive, and Masked Marth.  Arden is a cut above them.  I'm also happy that I got a new red mage in Arvis.

My hope is that enough fans will get upset and IS will:

  1. Give Ayra as a free unit to all players who did not summon her
  2. Give a witch Camilla away to all players to make up for no Ayra
  3. Make a Halloween banner already

I doubt we'll get any sort of compensation, but best hope is they don't try something like this again.

I'm actually a bit tired of holiday banners and just want Micaiah already.  And GHBs more than once every other month.

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1 hour ago, Superbus said:

I'm willing to bet no one paid into the focus for Minerva while the dancer focus was going unless they had a heavy overdose of orbs., for example.

I'm F2P but I saved my orbs through the dancer banner and invested 100 orbs into a nice Minerva.

But in all seriousness, VincentASM's article misses out on something. He says that Ayra could've been implemented to fill out the 8 bonus allies for TT, but previous TT often had one of the 3 OCs of Heroes. (Or 2 OCs if you don't count Anna)

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1 hour ago, Superbus said:

I'm willing to bet no one paid into the focus for Minerva while the dancer focus was going unless they had a heavy overdose of orbs., for example.

Pay up, pal.  I spent some money on the Minerva & Maria banner to get the Red Dragoon, which I was able to summon.  I guess you won't have as much money to whale for Ayra. 

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21 minutes ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

The reason i'm "mad" is that this is the first time, in my experience with this game, that a banner has been specifically set up so people will whale for a particular character.  IS will make money, considering the amount of people who use +10 merged units at the top tier of arena.  These whales will likely have to spend double(?) to get Ayra due to Eldigan.  It's kind of funny, though, that people are sleeping on Arden.  He has the potential to be pretty good.  Remember, before Black Knight we got so-so rewards like Tobin, Clive, and Masked Marth.  Arden is a cut above them.  I'm also happy that I got a new red mage in Arvis.

My hope is that enough fans will get upset and IS will:

  1. Give Ayra as a free unit to all players who did not summon her
  2. Give a witch Camilla away to all players to make up for no Ayra
  3. Make a Halloween banner already

And, to be fair, I don't necessarily think that powercreep is a huge factor in this game.  It's easy to defeat most units.  The AI is pretty stupid, and can be manipulated easily.  Like baiting; Brave Lyn always attacks my Tiki even though Mulagir does 0 damage and Tiki's counterattack kills her.  Arena matches don't go more than 5 turns usually.  I'm pretty sure Ayra is one-shotted by Reinhardt (like everyone else).   

Man, you must not be familiar with gacha games at all.

This is the name of the game.  I don't get why people are complaining about this being scummy when you consider that this is the entire point of these kinds of games.  This is where they make all of their money.

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5 minutes ago, Schleimann said:

I'm F2P but I saved my orbs through the dancer banner and invested 100 orbs into a nice Minerva.

But in all seriousness, VincentASM's article misses out on something. He says that Ayra could've been implemented to fill out the 8 bonus allies for TT, but previous TT often had one of the 3 OCs of Heroes. (Or 2 OCs if you don't count Anna)

I the issue was that apart from the new characters there were only two Gen 1 FE4 units before now, so any Banner for Tempest would have included either just them or repeats from the Banner we just had.  The could have included Julia or Seliph if they wanted, though, since using only Gen 1 units was pretty arbitrary, especially in a game like FE Heroes.

1 hour ago, Superbus said:

I'm willing to bet no one paid into the focus for Minerva while the dancer focus was going unless they had a heavy overdose of orbs., for example.

Not for Minerva, but I've pulled on the repeat Banners in the past, once specifically to get a Leo with a better nature and another surprisingly enough to get Eldigan, who I didn't have yet.  If I hadn't pulled Minerva off focus a while back, I might have used some Orbs to try to get her.

Just now, The Geek said:

Man, you must not be familiar with gacha games at all.

This is the name of the game.  I don't get why people are complaining about this being scummy when you consider that this is the entire point of these kinds of games.  This is where they make all of their money.

Making money and keeping your player base happy aren't mutually exclusive.  It will actually serve you better in the long run, if people aren't mad about your product.  Anger people often enough, and they'll eventually leave.  I've stayed with Heroes so long because it was mostly above board so far.

1 hour ago, Superbus said:

I read Vincent's article, but I have the reaction to much of the controversy regarding Ayra is overblown for one reason: if you play a gacha game, you have to expect the worst. 

It is designed to be a shitty, manipulative system, and the way to get people paying into a shitty, manipulative system is to offer them a carrot, with the stick being that the carrot will go away. We've learned with FEH one thing: if there's a really popular summon, everyone pays into it, with the others being ignored. I'm willing to bet no one paid into the focus for Minerva while the dancer focus was going unless they had a heavy overdose of orbs., for example.

Everything that is going on with FEH right now is working as intended. They know Ayra is extremely popular. They know the other units are popular to a lesser extent. So put some super skills on them, and separate Ayra into another focus that has two characters everyone has and don't care about (Eldigan isn't at 500HM for me). More people spending orbs into more areas, and ohbytheway the dancer focus is still going. Three focuses ending within days of each other with timed, desired units. I'm willing to bet their internals look FANTASTIC on this.

Vincent mentions that this game is better than other gachas. He's right; I've only played a few (P&D, Tales and Fate GO, the latter of which is terrible), but reported on the industry long enough to know how bad it can truly get. But with this system and the focus on making money that it has, things are going to escalate. Power creep is a thing in games like this for a reason; it's how to get players to keep spending, and you're not going to do that with Defiant Atk. This was inevitable, and anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if behind the scenes, we found out that more math was skewing the up-front numbers. If you'd told me that in the Tempest focus that Ayra had a lower pull chance than the Incest Twins, or if they were lowering the 5* rate for whales, I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

Vince is right. This is a bad precedent. But it was designed to be a bad precedent and I'm shocked we didn't hit it sooner.

A lot of those scenarios you suggest would be illegal, if my understanding of gacha laws or just fraud laws in general is accurate.  If they say you have a 3% chance to pull a Focus unit, it's illegal for it to be anything else.  Although people like @Ice Dragon are better versed in gacha law than I.

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3 minutes ago, The Geek said:

Man, you must not be familiar with gacha games at all.

This is the name of the game.  I don't get why people are complaining about this being scummy when you consider that this is the entire point of these kinds of games.  This is where they make all of their money.

I wasn't being entirely serious.  I can only dream of witch Camilla being a character in this game. 

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I agree this is bad precedent for FEH standard but mostly because why the fuck did they not inform players about Ayra 

 

As far as power creep goes.... eh. Brave Lyn i can see being dumb but she would be just as dumb eith 143 bst and 5 less res. Brave Ike would be probably just as dumb if he have Bartre stats with nothing changed at all. Sigurd is meh(distribution wise hes practically Eldigan). Ayra is the only one that is problematic in this sense but when you think about it unless Ayra proves to be hilariously opressive(which is fairly unlikely) she doesnt fall into power creep area because Infantry Sword just isnt that much of a strong class(Steady Ryoma is arguably still the best Sword Lord in the game)

What i want going forward is just for them to start buffing up older weapons and no they dont need to go overboard with the effect. Even a super lazy slap a +3 stats would be cool

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2 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Sigurd is meh(distribution wise hes practically Eldigan).

... wat.
There is a difference between 35/32 to 32/24 offensive spread.
If anything Sigurd comes awfully close to B.Roy who has a 32(+3)/34 spread. Sigurd trades 2 Spd and in-built Heavy Blade for much better bulk.

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2 minutes ago, Talandar said:

... wat.
There is a difference between 35/32 to 32/24 offensive spread.
If anything Sigurd comes awfully close to B.Roy who has a 32(+3)/34 spread. Sigurd trades 2 Spd and in-built Heavy Blade for much better bulk.

I legit forgot about the speed so sumanai

I still think hes meh though(at least for how much he is hyped up) problem with Brave Roy comparison is because HB build in is broken(its the sole reason BRoy is able to rival Reinhardt and BLyn offensive potential which says something since BRoy is a Melee unit)

Sigurd hype is a bit like Elincia hype back then for me in a sense that as much power creep cries is made about them they are actually irrelevant as fuck in the long run

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The first warning sign for me was the introduction of Slaying Weapons. I understand wanting to "buff" inheritable weapons to be more on par with Legendaries (Pref Weapons), but since Slayer Weapons are outright better Killer Weapons, it practically made all Killers worthless. Luckily for IS, they made some good updates that managed to hold my interest in the game despite no longer spending any money on Heroes.

The Choose-Your-Legends units being OP is fine because I expected it to be a one-off thing. They were chosen by the fans, had a special event, and so on.

However, recent trends have been breaking the "formula" I've seen for Heroes.

1. Legendaries since CYL have been getting crazier. Elincia can arguably be counted as the first, but I see PA!Azura taking that slot with her weapons "Rally Spectrum" skill. (Falchions can be considered the earliest "OP" weapons since they had two modifiers, but they are still comparable to the other options at the time.)
2. Normal Weapons have been outclassing existing ones. Besides Slaying Weapons being better Killers, the normal PA weapons have Breath of Life 3, compare to Linde's legendary Aura who only has Breath of Life 2! Even Frederick's Seashells outclass Silver Daggers entirely!
3. Sigurd and Ayra have higher stats than normal, even when comparing them to Trainees.
4. We are now having exclusive skills that cannot be inherited. While fine on paper and bringing uniqueness to new units, these skills basically outclass any other skill that can go into that slot. So, not only we have crazy Legendaries to deal with, but crazy skills as well!

Then we get Ayra getting thrown on a banner with old units. She could have perfectly fit in with the World of the Holy War banner, been a TT reward or even a GHB battle. However, apparently money is more important so they throw her on a banner that also has old units (with Eligan no less to make it harder to get Ayra).

Getting goodwill out of consumers is difficult and maintaining it more so. For a while, I found myself content with how Heroes is doing things (still not to happy about Slaying Weapons and their implementation), but recent developments seem to indicate IS has other plans. I sincerely hope this was a move of an individual and does not represent the mindset of the Heroes Team, so FEH can go back to being its amazing self. Fire Emblem Heroes is a fun mobile title, and I would hate to see it fall due to the influence of greed.

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One thing I saw other talk about that I agree with is the fact that a large part of this power creep is caused by uninheritable skills.  Tana and Guidance was the best example I saw. While the unit the skill came on was good, if you didn't like Tana you could give Guidance to somebody else. Yet Ayra, who comes two skills that could save the overall fairly bad Myrmidon units (being Ayra's Blade and Regnant Astra) is also the only unit that can use those skills.

The fact that Ayra, of all characters, got such treatment scares me the most. Sigurd I can justify by the fact that he's arguably the most overpowered lord in the franchise and him getting CYL treatment is just their way of carrying that fact over. He also spends a large part of the plot trying to reunite with his father, and fatherhood tied together all the CYL units. He even got Tyrfing from his father, just like the others got their weapon from their fathers. With Ayra, it's much harder for me to justify. She gets trainee stats because she starts out a little underwhelming but becomes a monster? She gets her own personal sword because units couldn't trade in FE4? Regnant Astra because in Jugdral Astra/Meteor Blade is a bonus of Od blood? I get that Ayra is pretty popular (She's one of my favorites from FE4 too), but I don't think she deserves all these toys. And if Ayra can get all these bonuses, imagine what a more important character will get.

Edited by AndrewMcC00l

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2 hours ago, Superbus said:

I read Vincent's article, but I have the reaction to much of the controversy regarding Ayra is overblown for one reason: if you play a gacha game, you have to expect the worst. 

10-4. I bailed on playing the game when I saw how Skill Inheritance works but still look into new heroes and updates to see how things are going.

Skill inheritance was designed to create a new pool of objectives to summon for: Skills and it works well enough because of whales who will seek to summon for Skills in order create perfect units.

Now, how do you keep the cash flow coming from whales who have "perfect units"? You power creep and anyone who didn't it see coming was probably blinded thinking Fire Emblem wouldn't be tainted as bad as other gacha games.

 

The fact that the Summoning Focus still work the same way they did on release doesn't help their defense when it comes to F2P players. With how much success the game has gotten and how much time has passed, if they really cared about the F2P players, they would alter summoning focus to not just grant you an extra chance at getting specific heroes but also limiting the hero pool when using that Focus (ie a focus with only Tome users where you can only summon tome users, an NES-SNES character pool focus, etc)

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@Superbus @The Geek

I find this argument really weak. "This is a gacha game and other gacha games are scummier, so don't protest when this one does something scummy". Just because others are worse than you doesn't give you a pass to be bad as well. Why should we lay down and accept it when a game that was pretty good at not being too scummy suddenly does a blatantly scummy move? Isn't the game not being too scummy a good thing for every players? Why would you defend a game for taking a turn for the worse? Heroes was plenty successful without resorting to blatant cash grabs like this.

And it's not like this decision is good for the game long term.

The devs severely damaged the trust the player base held toward them and that extends to the whales as well. I've seen plenty of thousand dollar spenders state that they sent a feedback stating that they would stop supporting the game monetarily if the devs didn't come apologize and state that this type of bait and switch with a new unit would never happen again. Not to mention that keeping your F2P players is a good move and they obviously hurt those players as well with this move. F2P players are potential spenders and a large player base is the best way to get more people to play your game.

- - - - 

@Sire I agree with you completely. The Slaying weapons were the game's first strike for me and this whole situation around Ayra is my second strike. Depending on how they respond to this mess and how the game moves one, I may stop playing the game for good if a third strike ever happens.

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1 hour ago, Charmeleonbrah said:

I wasn't being entirely serious.  I can only dream of witch Camilla being a character in this game. 

I can't wait to get bodied by them revealing a witch Camilla for Halloween now that Ayra baited my orbs.

In regards to power creep, while I do think it's there, it's only mildly worrying me so far. I don't like the Slaying weapons being strict Killer upgrades, at least not without a way to turn upgrade your old Killer weapons into Slaying ones too or something. CYL seemed fine due to being for a special event kind of deal and 1 given for free on top of that. Elincia was a noticeable bump but not too concerning overall. Sigurd is oddly stacked like a CYL unit despite not being one, but I don't find him particularly impressive or game-breaking enough to trigger a real problem. Ayra is certainly the more concerning thing so far, just flat out outclassing a good portion of red infantry units thanks to her oddly special treatment.

25 minutes ago, AndrewMcC00l said:

One thing I saw other talk about that I agree with is the fact that a large part of this power creep is caused by uninheritable skills.  Tana and Guidance was the best example I saw. While the unit the skill came on was good, if you didn't like Tana you could give Guidance to somebody else. Yet Ayra, who comes two skills that could save the overall fairly bad Myrmidon units (being Ayra's Blade and Regnant Astra) is also the only unit that can use those skills.

The fact that Ayra, of all characters, got such treatment scares me the most. Sigurd I can justify by the fact that he's arguably the most overpowered lord in the franchise and him getting CYL treatment is just their way of carrying that fact over. He also spends a large part of the plot trying to reunite with his father, and fatherhood tied together all the CYL units. He even got Tyrfing from his father, just like the others got their weapon from their fathers. With Ayra, it's much harder for me to justify. She gets trainee stats because she starts out a little underwhelming but becomes a monster? She gets her own personal sword because units couldn't trade in FE4? Regnant Astra because in Jugdral Astra/Meteor Blade is a bonus of Od blood? I get that Ayra is pretty popular (She's one of my favorites from FE4 too), but I don't think she deserves all these toys. And if Ayra can get all these bonuses, imagine what a more important character will get.

While I'm not super worried over the power creep yet, I think these are some very important points.

When the SI mechanic was added to the game, it opened up being able to make almost any character good or at least usable. Now that they're starting to introduce a lot of especially strong exclusive pfr weapons and skills, it's kind of doubling back on what SI helped do. And the fact they're doing this not just to units like Sigurd that it might make thematic sense for, but also units like Ayra feels more like the start of a new trend other than just a few oddballs.

Granted, the scummy way Ayra was introduced has got me worried for the game more than Ayra herself. You can really feel the intent behind the scenes that went into setting this scenario up. Extremely good unit, blindsides the community with her inclusion, released just 3 days after a normal banner she seems oddly held back from being on, and released on a banner with Eldigan that seems intentionally done to milk people trying to pull her on (likely) now-depleated orbs after Sigurd and friends. It seems so out of place and sudden to pull something like this, that it's no wonder a good portion of the community is reeling.

Edited by Alkaid

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Ok heres my question

Why is it okay for Sigurd to get special treatment for being the most overpowered lord when:

Marth the OG and the third most overpowered lord

Robin the most overpowered UNIT in the series bar none

Seth who was Sigurds rival for #1

Seliph the second most overpowered lord 

 

Doesnt get them. And yes they can deliver Sigurd as a very strong unit without favoritism just reduce his defense by 4 or def by 2 res by 2 and you get the exact same thing for the most part

 

Base game state does not justify being overpowered in this game. Mind i dont even think Sigurd is all that good 

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28 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

@Superbus @The Geek

I find this argument really weak. "This is a gacha game and other gacha games are scummier, so don't protest when this one does something scummy". Just because others are worse than you doesn't give you a pass to be bad as well. Why should we lay down and accept it when a game that was pretty good at not being too scummy suddenly does a blatantly scummy move? Isn't the game not being too scummy a good thing for every players? Why would you defend a game for taking a turn for the worse? Heroes was plenty successful without resorting to blatant cash grabs like this.

 

The argument is not about defending the game. It's about understanding what type of game you're dealing with and the business practices exercised by other users of the same business model.

"FEH is a Gacha game" is not meant to be a pass on it becoming worse, it's meant to be a warning and indication that the same business model has been used in several games and there are many traps and problems for the consumer that come with it. Players should've approached the game with caution due to its business model and understand that with updates and new content, the state of the game being "good" or "bad" is subject to change and could go either way. Whales complaining about putting so much money into the game and seeing it become worse because a power creep as a sign of people who failed to exercise caution and take into consideration negative outcomes of future changes. If these whales are so surprised and upset in seeing the game devolve like other games with the same business practices and similar histories, did FEH whales just jump into the game thinking it'd be a holy grail that could not be tainted? Foolish.

If people want things to be changed for the better and let the developers know that shit like this is unacceptable, just send them feedback, don't summon on this Ayra banner, take a break/leave from the game until you see reason to go back.

Edited by Dr. Tarrasque

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And here I was, trying to justify the powercreep for the longest time, until this banner came along.

With the slayer weapons, at the very least, they were replacing the killer weapons that no one used, though the implementation of them was questionable.

Amelia has the highest BST in the game, but armour emblem at the time desperately needed a buff, so I could still see it as somewhat justified, though locking her behind 5* exclusivity was still a dick move.

CYL banner was definitely powercreep, but it was the most hyped up banner in a while, and I thought that since only 2/4 got special treatment, it would represent the upper levels of powercreep, and there wouldn't be any heroes introduced that would be able to compare to them.

For a while, I thought that would be true. Elincia made palla and Caeda irrelevant but flier emblem was lacking a good red unit for the longest time, so I could see why Elincia would be made stronger, and she didn't have any bullshit skills, so that was still okay. Seasonal dancers were ok aside from Azura but even then, they're dancers, stats never really mattered that much.

And then this happened. 2 units getting the special treatment of +5 BST, CYL tier weapons, and uninheritable skills for no reason other than "they were popular in their own game" which is honestly bullshit. It destroys the previous assumption I made about CYL units as we now have new units that can be compared to them. Furthermore, these units that didn't even make the top 20 are apparently more deserving of special treatment than Roy and Lucina? I'm not making too many assumptions now, but if the next new unit banner has yet another CYL-esque unit, it would be safe to assume that this would be the new standard for units, which would be disastrous for the game's f2p playerbase, and I for one would never want to see a meta filled with legendary weapons with 2 level 3 passives and uninheritable skills, with past characters completely outclassed and made redundant.

Edited by Korath88

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1 hour ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

The argument is not about defending the game. It's about understanding what type of game you're dealing with and the business practices exercised by other users of the same business model.

"FEH is a Gacha game" is not meant to be a pass on it becoming worse, it's meant to be a warning and indication that the same business model has been used in several games and there are many traps and problems for the consumer that come with it. Players should've approached the game with caution due to its business model and understand that with updates and new content, the state of the game being "good" or "bad" is subject to change and could go either way. Whales complaining about putting so much money into the game and seeing it become worse because a power creep as a sign of people who failed to exercise caution and take into consideration negative outcomes of future changes. If these whales are so surprised and upset in seeing the game devolve like other games with the same business practices and similar histories, did FEH whales just jump into the game thinking it'd be a holy grail that could not be tainted? Foolish.

I'm not sure what your main point is. Is it that we shouldn't complain and send feedback voicing our disagreement because it was not a surprise that the game would do something scummy? Because I prefer to 'foolishly' voice my concern through feedback and hope that the game stays off the bad slope the Ayra situation leads toward before stopping playing the game or doing nothing and just accept that this game is destined to become scummier because it's a gacha game.

And I'm not even talking about the power creep aspect, since that one was expected for a while (I would have preferred if they waited more before doing so blatantly, sure, but it wasn't unexpected). It's the whole issue of breaking the trend they respected since the launch of the game of announcing new heroes through a trailer before adding them. Ayra being an unannounced new unit featured on a banner alongside two old characters is the root of the problem for me. 

Edited by LuxSpes

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20 minutes ago, LuxSpes said:

And I'm not even talking about the power creep aspect, since that one was expected for a while (I would have preferred if they waited more before doing so blatantly, sure, but it wasn't unexpected). It's the whole issue of breaking the trend they respected since the launch of the game of announcing new heroes through a trailer before adding them. Ayra being an unannounced new unit featured on a banner alongside two old characters is the root of the problem for me. 

The ironic (?) thing is Ayra was in the trailer....just a map sprite in the actual paralogue map

Had they actually featured her properly with Sigurd and the rest, I would have actually been more excited to pull for that focus since both red units would be good to have. (I was more 'meh do a full pull then go back to Dancer banner')

Until the need for a TT bonus unit arrived

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