Twitch Plays Pokemon Mafia NOC(15p)(GAME OVER TOWN WINS)

[Refa]

7 hours ago, Shinori said:

For what it matters I also agree that Evan's post during RVS was bad but I also don't think it was a pot shot and there ain't really any reason for you to act aggressively towards me for stating it.  I read that post WRT you as more of a joke than anything to which you blew up about extremely weirdly.

What do you think about Evan's posts afterwards?  Specifically, the exchange with Via and himself and his responses to ED1 content (I don't think he's done anything else?).

2 minutes ago, Shinori said:

I'll get to some of the rest of this in a bit but:

1: I think my primary reason for saying that your chainsaw defense is scum-intent is because you still haven't read Randa.  You can't justify someone's attack/push on someone as bad when you haven't even read the slot.  That's literally what I did as scum in cuphead mafia if you remember the whole speal that happened day 2.  I'm not attempting to push my self meta out on you here either I'm just giving an example as to WHY that I am reading it as more scum-sided of a chainsaw defense than a townsided person who just dislikes the attackers.

2: My 'scumread' on sb as you put it is as much of a scum read that a scum read can be literally 2 pages since game start.  And I haven't ignored his other content, albeit I think he's been a little quiet since the beginning of the game but I haven't been heavily scum reading him.

3: This is the reasoning you didn't state previously though when you voted me which is why your initial vote looks awful.  Whether you feel me saying it looks like an OMGUS or not is bad doesn't change the fact that that's kind of what it seemed like in my eyes.

My swaps have been so far:

1: SB > Refa - still close to RVS phase and I wanted to get responses from Refa(Not sure if I Actually ever got those responses but that's so far ago in this game that it basically doesn't matter anymore.)

2: Refa - Randa - Refa wasn't around and after a small reread of the past 1 page I was feeling worse overall about Randa.

3: Randa - Refa - Randa's around and making content, he's still a scum read but this was my thought process at the time based on my thoughts QT as of the end of page 7.  These thoughts have changed since then but this is just here to provide you with some of my thought process behind why I swapped votes at the time.

Also whether or not I am scum reading Randa doesn't change the fact that there would also be more than 1 scum in this game.

Haven't made any other swaps outside of that and realistically only the Randa - Refa swap is the only questionable one.  In my opinion I feel my first and second swaps were justified and not bad.

1: I have read Randa though.  Like, he was in my scumreads.  Let me try to explain where I'm coming from here.  1) I have only skimmed the thread, and think SB and Baldrick's cases on Randa are bad on gut. 2) I actually reread the thread (and thus Randa), and reevaluate my gut reads accordingly.  I don't think you're pushing your self meta on me though lol, it just seems like something you view as generically scummy which is fair enough.

2. You haven't?  It felt like you ignored him besides his comments regarding me.  What do you think of SB's current cases?  Do you feel like he's being proactive?

3. I feel like me calling out most of your cases should have implied that reasoning.

4. Actually I'm fine with this?  Now that you've explained your reasoning behind your swaps, I don't really have any issue there.  Mreh, I'll rethink my vote because the only thing bothering me is your case on me.  Probably swapping to Evan/SB unless Ice did something super scummy in his posts that I haven't read.

##Unvote

[Athena_57]

How experienced is Ice Sage? (So basically, should I be expecting much more?) Considering a vote atm

[Ice Sage]

first NOC. haven't really played much

[Refa]

7 hours ago, Baldrick said:

For his point about Shinori/Randa/SB interactions, he's implied those three have a similar tone in their pushes, and SB has been distant. I've asked for an example to try and understand what he means.

Also FTR, if you want more examples of SB being distant then look at his initial Randa and Evan votes.  They just don't seem like they're trying to engage with the person that he's scumreading, even though the actual reasoning seemed fine to me.

5 hours ago, athena_57 said:

Agree with Shinori there is no real reasoning for Refa to vote Shinori here. Originally missed that because of the block of text next to Shinori's name, but that's all just responses...

If the only redeeming feature for Randa is that one post, I don't see why you have Shinori over them. Most of Randa's stuff has been mediocre/bad imo, one decent post isn't going to fix that.

Block of text isn't just responses lol, I took issue with two out of three of Shinori's pushes and I didn't like the way he swapped from his cases.

I didn't mention this before, but everyone being okay with voting Randa is giving me second thoughts on the slot.  It's not just that one post BTW, it's his tone overall, I'm just too lazy to link some of his later posts that gave me the same vibe.  Who makes sense as Randa's scumbuddy assuming Randa flipped scum?  Don't say inactive players because that's a cop out.

2 hours ago, SB. said:

@Refa It's not totally about Randa just missing things, it's also that most of his posts are defensive in nature and it feels like he's backpedalling a bit. Why did he need to be prompted by me in order to vote for KTS when the reasons to do it were already there? Also I defended you because most posts I read were Randa/Refa scumreads (even if more votes were on Randa) and I kind of wanted the game to expand a little.

I don't really get your Shinori vote. I understand that you disagree with a lot of what he's been posting but it feels like it's mostly because you think he's misinterpreting you? Please explain.

Can you explain where Randa is backpedaling?  He does that as scum, so I'd feel more confident in a vote there if you linked me to that.  I agree that most of his posts are defensive, but he's also the #1 wagon and hasn't played in forever.  I'm willing to give him a break on that one.  Fair enough on defending me (shoulda read this before shittalking you lol), but to me it just feels like you're too sure based on something relatively minor?  If I'm town, surely my later posts will look town as well, so more analysis on those would be nice for my read on you.

I felt like Shinori's votes were misrepping things and his voteswaps didn't read as town to me.  Please no one ask me to explain my Shinori scumread again lol, all of the cards are on the table at this point.

27 minutes ago, Ice Sage said:

Yeah finished up. Only scum reads i have is Evan. it stuck out to me. when it comes to others like Randa, Shinori, SB, and Bartozio i am not sure at the moment.

Can you explain your thoughts on these other four players?  Even if you're not sure, I want to know where you're coming from there.

[Refa]

##Vote: EvanManManMan

Less doubts on this slot than on Randa.  I want more responses from SB.

[Athena_57]

21 minutes ago, Refa said:

Block of text isn't just responses lol, I took issue with two out of three of Shinori's pushes and I didn't like the way he swapped from his cases.

I didn't mention this before, but everyone being okay with voting Randa is giving me second thoughts on the slot.  It's not just that one post BTW, it's his tone overall, I'm just too lazy to link some of his later posts that gave me the same vibe.  Who makes sense as Randa's scumbuddy assuming Randa flipped scum?  Don't say inactive players because that's a cop out.

Eh, fine, all was an exaggeration, what I meant to convey is that there wasn't too much actual attacks, I feel your case on Randa was quite a bit stronger. Might be bias though.

Personally, if I were scum with Randa, I wouldn't defend them but rather try to start an alternate wagon. Like, you know, the wagon on Evan, which you're supporting. I disagree with his tone being good. I think basically anyone can make sense, no-one really gets caught or cleared off of interactions imo. Therefore, him being town makes it even more hard to find scum members outside of the inactives.

[Athena_57]

5 minutes ago, athena_57 said:

Therefore, him being town makes it even more hard to find scum members outside of the inactives.

Edit/Clarification:

If he's town, it implies an additional scum. Assuming like 2 scum amongst the inactives, it implies an additional scum amongst the actives. (Not necessarily, but likely) Since I'm already unsure on who I dislike the most out of the other actives, finding multiple is hard enough it makes me feel more confident in my Randa vote.

[Ice Sage]

4 minutes ago, Refa said:

Can you explain your thoughts on these other four players?  Even if you're not sure, I want to know where you're coming from there.

Randa: He is being defensive a lot, but at the same time he was being ganged up on. I can see him being defensive as scum, but my gut feeling just doesn't think so yet.

Shinori: Voteswaps, but he is trying to find more scum reads so i can understand that.

SB: He is putting out questions and having good answers  to others.

Bartozio: Nothing Bartozio said so far seems scum to me. I have to see more.

[Shinori]

What about my vote swaps are scummy Ice?

Generally someone who just leaves there vote on one person for an entire day phase is considered to be tunneling(which is generally bad) or lurking(which is bad).  Is it just the act of me voteswapping that is bad or is there something specific about them that's bad?

[Shinori]

Also you need to expand on that SB read because if I understand right currently you're saying he's scummy for asking questions and answering questions with good answers?

[Ice Sage]

14 minutes ago, Shinori said:

What about my vote swaps are scummy Ice?

Generally someone who just leaves there vote on one person for an entire day phase is considered to be tunneling(which is generally bad) or lurking(which is bad).  Is it just the act of me voteswapping that is bad or is there something specific about them that's bad?

I think switching votes a lot is weird? I can see where you're coming from though. staying to one can be bad.

14 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Also you need to expand on that SB read because if I understand right currently you're saying he's scummy for asking questions and answering questions with good answers?

I wrote it down wrong. SB providing that makes me think he is not scum.

[Jaybee]

Athena

Spoiler

1. Null reading the initial exchange with Bartozio. This reads like a reaction test / general RVS banter.

2. This sounds like normal Athena. Don't agree with SB's initial case regarding this post, but at the same time I'm aware my disagreement is quite rooted in meta.

3. Would like some clarification here on your first response to Eury on town!Eury and scum!Eury metas.

4. Still quite waffly regarding SB and Refa but like... I'm alright with his null reads because I can see that he's at least put in effort to come to that conclusion. Contrast this with Randa (when I get to him).

Mild townread, feels like town who's trying but doesn't have very many views because the lynch targets seem quite obvious and he's waiting on their reply.

@athena_57 can you elaborate further on your Refa read?

Baldrick

Spoiler

0. Baldrick is playing to his usual meta of asking good,p

ointed questions while still not giving away too much of his own views? Or at least that's how I've always read him lol I don't think I've ever in-depth read Baldrick posts oops

1. athena defence / sb attack

2. this randa case is fine

3. BBM reading skills maybe, but need clarification on this - I assume you mean you agree with the case on Refa? In this case, why is your vote still on Randa? And later here you say you're not scumreading Refa - am I understanding your development of your view on him correctly? In particular, do you think Refa's thought process is towny but incoherent, or scummy and meant to sow confusion?

@Baldrick can you elaborate further on your Refa read? Where do you stand on Refa & Randa as a voting preference, and is there anyone else you're alright with voting?

Bartozio

Spoiler

1. Null read on the initial exchange with Athena, ~meta read~ incoming but at this point Bart's tendency to say things that appear weird early D1 and catch inordinate amounts of shit for it (like maybe this) is null for me.

2. Don't follow this logic on Athena? Minor thing tho. And the SB case is fine. Development here is natural too.

3. Nothing wrong here with the readspost either.

Eury

Spoiler

0.1. I was you in SFMM5!

0.2. More meta, but yeah, I echo what... someone said earlier about Eury's D1 never being that stellar. Keeping that in mind for the rest of this post.

1.  With ^ in mind, this reads like normal Eury being non-committal early D1.

2. I don't like people randomly blowing up in my games. So I don't like the start of this. But the response in 3 to KTS is much more measured so I suppose it cancels.

3. Here when you say Randa's logic is 'bad', do you mean 'poor' or 'scummy'? This post is otherwise alright.

4. This post on Shinori diverting from Randa to Refa is interesting. I don't know what to make of this yet, I'm reading players alphabetically so I might have a better idea later.

Evan

Spoiler

1. just kinda says SB and Refa's posts are bad, and... that's it on them?

2. uh sure i guess declaring KTS/Ath/Bart/Shinori/Rapier town on the spot is a thing now

3. The interaction with Via rubs me super super badly. I came in and said I wasn't posting for 15 hours (haha jokes i actually meant 24), why not get me for that? In fact, you've played with Via before (though it was only for one day phase in SFMM5), so the change between these 2 games is a little jarring.

Bad.

Ice Sage

Spoiler

lol

1. Only substantial post here. Would appreciate some elaboration on your Eury read, haven't read Refa at this point but I'm fine with this read.

2. But this is... You have no thoughts on Randa or Shinori, not even a null (see Athena for how to give a satisfactory null read)?

Quite poor content for a fresh view on the game. Need to see how his views develop as the phase progresses.

Jaybee

Spoiler

 

KTS

Spoiler

0. The overall play is a complete 180 from SFMM5. Then again, the circumstances of these 2 games were totally different.

1. sigh

2. athena defence

3. now says randa and shinori are scum together

4. I dislike the waffling on Shinori here, but the Eury and SB cases are fine.

5. Slow evolution into a town!Randa read here.

6. Why vote Ice Sage, a player who has done nothing, over SB, someone who you have voiced your concerns with?

The constant waffling on Randa is difficult to read, to be honest, but I appreciate the other content he's come up with, I think it's good and he's trying hard.

Mack2

Spoiler

Randa

Spoiler

1. I interpreted this post as saying the SB vote is a joke vote.

2. My overall impression on Randa is that his wordcount is bloody high but he's not actually saying anything or doing much scumhunting. I greatly dislike this.

3. The case on Shinori being this bastard who manipulates new players isn't very Shinori, sorry. He only shouts at them!

4. I hate this.

-this is some really bad misreading (or is it misrepping?) Shinori's decision to vote Refa.
-now he's trying to say that the SB vote was good because it got activity going? from a town perspective, what does saying this accomplish? I see the scum argument quite easily (woo towncred!), but I mean, if Randa is town why doesn't he just admit his vote was RVS?
-Eury might read as passive, but what about other players, eg Bart, Baldrick who haven't contributed as much?

5. Latest post is overall fine, I disagree with the KTS case on meta (but it's not meta that Randa is familiar with). In particular, I can't tell if you think KTS is scummy or if you want him to just elaborate.

@Randa When did your Shinori read change from "I'm voting him" to a slight town read? Also, who else is scum?

Rapier

Spoiler

3 posts PogChamp

yeah i don't have anything tbh, post more. though i like his attack on sb

Refa

Spoiler

1. initial exchange with sb on athena

2. i guess refa is always this non-committal d1 lol

3. Noting this here for the Shinori/SB/Randa thing he brings up. I'll reread it another time.

4. This case on Shinori is really decent actually. Further elaboration here which... I'll get into another time.

5. After interaction with Shinori, removes his vote. I like Refa here.

6. I don't know about this Randa defence. We just ended a game where 2 scum ended up 1v1ing each other from their first D1 posts and the goal of the scumteam was to destroy as many associative reads as possible. Is there a possibility Randa's scum and just getting bussed?

7. Evan vote is fine.

could you please elaborate on your shinori read

SB

Spoiler

1. I see the initial vote on Athena as trying to get out of RVS. Of course it's going to look reachy and bad, everything is at the start of D1.

2. wrt this how much scumhunting are you expecting people to do in RVS though? This is also kinda reachy even for D1 standards imo. Dislike.

3. randa vote is fine

4. at this point i'm tired so i fully admit i'm not reading his posts thoroughly. 

5. don't like this reasoning. shinori covered why this argument is bad.

8. thanks for the birthday wish btw

Shinori

Spoiler

1. first case on SB is a early D1 case so what can you do lol. Asking Refa this is fine tho.

2. you know what im lazy

I am alright with the overall pressuring on Randa, I think it's fair and Randa's responses aren't satisfactory.

3. My gut feel is that this switch is awkward.

4. How should I put it... I'm not saying that you're lying, and obviously there's no way to prove it, but this explanation on the votes can be faked quite easily.

Again, yeah I'm surprised by the amount of D1 effort going into this. I will say that this is the slot I've read the least because Refa/SB/Shinori are all near the end alphabetically so my brain's a little fried now.

Via

Spoiler

0. oh man you're going to suffer with the 5 post limit in anarchy lul

1. fine with the initial exchange with evan. null read.

2. everything else is fine, i don't think i've ever scumread via in my life.

##Vote: Evan

yeah

[Jaybee]

tomorrow's another crazy long day, if i don't post in 7 hours then see you in 24

[Refa]

How does it feel to not roll scum for once, Jaybee?

[EvanManManMan]

I need motivation fr

[EvanManManMan]

##vote Ice Sage

I'll get all my thoughts down soon but their vote on me was the definition of opportunistic and is wolfy AF.

[EvanManManMan]

17 hours ago, Killthestory said:

evan's catchup was wolfy as fuck if that answers your question. i'm more looking at him antagonizing via (which i don't approve of) because that's his wolf range, too.

"Wolf range"

That doesn't mean anything. It is just putting down the fact that I can be doing something as a wolf which with a player like myself who had given few thoughts and no extensive comments at the time, means absolutely nothing.

[Refa]

What are your thoughts on Randa, Evan?

[EvanManManMan]

@Bartozio to respond to your question I would have to reread the first 10 pages of this game, which I plan on doing because I drifted away when going through them the first time.

[EvanManManMan]

Just now, Refa said:

What are your thoughts on Randa, Evan?

All of their posts are within the post range I recall nothing of. I will get back to you once I properly read those posts.

[EvanManManMan]

KTS and Via are making a mountain out of a molehill with my "antagonizing" of Via.

[EvanManManMan]

Jaybee can be in my town grouping

I'll get a case on Ice Sage then reread the start of the game

[Killthestory]

initiating tunnel on evilmanman

[EvanManManMan]

4 hours ago, Ice Sage said:

I'm liking KTS's and Via's take on this. Reading back through I found Evan's posts going against Via pretty antagonizing. it felt like it came out of nowhere. I don't really have that much reads, but i do think KTS, Via, and Eury are town. Eury's posts read town to me imo. I don't blame KTS for voting me at all. I have been inactive.

I also don't think Refa is scum either. Him being demotivated i feel the same. feeling down myself recently so I find it hard to motivate myself to get things down too. It looks like he is trying to find reads as well.

Out of everything i feel like evan might be scum. it was pretty weird and looked wolfy. I don't see any explaination from him.

##vote Evan

This is Ice's first post with actual content. Their first reads in this game are located in this post, but they mean absolutely nothing. He town reads Via and KTS for voting me, ehich I see as sketchy. He just townreads all the people he is voting with, whoch I find Wolfy. He states he toenreads Eurykins which is fair, but needs some explanation. His Refa read is interesting though. He calls them town for being demotivated, which using that logic should be townreading me as well, and for "trying to find reads." That means nothing. Trying to find reads is basic game procedure and is something that literally everybody does. This reasoning is really weak. They show no confidence in any of their toen reads either. They imply no greater feelings than "I think." This type of wishy washy standpoint is something you receive from a submissive wolf that is trying to blend in. They proceed to vote me for the same "hurr durr ur scum" reasons I've been getting from a good portion of the game, again having no solid viewpoints saying "I might be scum."

4 hours ago, Ice Sage said:

Yeah finished up. Only scum reads i have is Evan. it stuck out to me. when it comes to others like Randa, Shinori, SB, and Bartozio i am not sure at the moment.

Only having one scum read is something that others mentioned as being a wolfy behavior, to which i agree. They then proceed to state that they are in between with Randa, Shinori, SB and Bartozio, which I find off because all of these people had high thread presence and gave a good amount of content.

2 hours ago, Ice Sage said:

Randa: He is being defensive a lot, but at the same time he was being ganged up on. I can see him being defensive as scum, but my gut feeling just doesn't think so yet.

Shinori: Voteswaps, but he is trying to find more scum reads so i can understand that.

SB: He is putting out questions and having good answers  to others.

Bartozio: Nothing Bartozio said so far seems scum to me. I have to see more.

And just like that, all of his null reads become town reads, and terrible ones at that. Let me paraphrase his reads:

Randa: Town because people were voting him but he could be scum

Shinori: He is switching votes but it could be town

SB: He is town for asking questions

Bart: He is town because he is

Not a single one of these expresses any thoughts regarding anything substantial that happened. They don't take into account players' reads. These are some of the most bare and weakest reasons I could possibly find to townread someone. It seems as if they didn't read the thread but they claimed to have done so. These are the reads of somebody who didn't read the thread and slapped words onto names for the sake of slapping words onto names or the reads of a confused wolf who doesn't know what they are doing. I am inclined to believe the latter.

1 hour ago, Ice Sage said:

I think switching votes a lot is weird? I can see where you're coming from though. staying to one can be bad.

I wrote it down wrong. SB providing that makes me think he is not scum.

This post really doesn't contain much but it shows that their thoughts are very wishy washy and can be backtracked at any time if needed.

[EvanManManMan]

38 minutes ago, Killthestory said:

initiating tunnel on evilmanman

Gobln has always been better than you