Choose Your Legends 3

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

5 minutes ago, XRay said:

Things could be worse. I have not seen any Fire Emblem fans disparaging our character's voice actors to the point where it causes them to quit social media, although it is probably only a matter of time before that happens.

And every place I have been claims other places are more toxic. I remember reading a Reddit post discussing a Serenes Forest post on Micaiah and some of their commenters said that our comment section is pretty bad for dissing Micaiah.

Did it have anything to do with @Icelerate?

Anyways, it almost seems to me that they seem hypocritical. Can you check that poster’s comment history to see how toxic he is? People are just giving opinions.

[Othin]

8 hours ago, XRay said:

Think of it this way. The next few Fire Emblem games that players would praise about are probably single handedly financed by Camilla. No other character and their fan base have that kind of muscle to finance games just by themselves.

If that means those games will force their female characters into outfits like the ones in Fates, I'll pass.

I don't want IS to get even more convinced that kind of approach is the way to go, that just hurts the games and further drives people who aren't straight guys away. I think it's quite selfish to disregard that concern and encourage it anyway.

Personally, my favorite of the characters competing for the female spots is Eirika. But the one I'm rooting for, the one I'd vote for if I had picked one of them to vote for, is Micaiah. Because as much as I like Eirika more, I think a Micaiah alt would add more to the game. Eirika's greater number of alts, particularly multiple non-seasonal alts, means she'd get less out of it, and Tellius could really use more attention.

Camilla's situation is even more extreme, and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) by her fans' lack of acknowledgement of that or concern for the consequences, to pick another character they like instead. There's certainly some anti-Camilla shit-slinging that goes too far, and I can understand the desire to push back against it, but there are more important things at stake here.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Othin

[GrandeRampel]

Okay, I met with my friends who also play heroes, and while most of them were chill, one of them, who voted for Awakening Anna was REALLY salty.

Like his body was 99.9% salt.

He bitched a lot about Camilla. A LOT. He was even mad at me for voting her.

He said that he wants to switch to F!Robin and take over Micaiah because "If I'm gonna be miserable, then I will bring Micaiah's fans down with me, so we can all be miserable together!!"

Honestly, he is not a bad guy, but he can be very passionate and loud sometimes. I believe tomorrow he will be over it and probably will switch to Bruno or even Ranulf just to make a favor to our other friend.

But talking with him made me remember that the first day is always the worst. People need time to process stuff, and on the heat of the moment we can say nasty things. Perhaps even the trolls, the Camilla haters and the toxic supporters will become less obnoxious in a couple of days.

[XRay]

26 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Did it have anything to do with @Icelerate?

Anyways, it almost seems to me that they seem hypocritical. Can you check that poster’s comment history to see how toxic he is? People are just giving opinions.

Yeah, I think it was about his analysis post; here is the Reddit discussion. I think the Reddit poster is just an average Camilla hater, no different from what we have here; I have not seen him making unprovoked attacks on anyone, so I do not think he is that bad.

I think most communities are about the same in terms of being toxic, since there will always be a few negative fans here and there.

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

If that means those games will force their female characters into outfits like the ones in Fates, I'll pass.

I don't want IS to get even more convinced that kind of approach is the way to go, that just hurts the games and further drives people who aren't straight guys away. I think it's quite selfish to disregard that concern and encourage it anyway.

Personally, my favorite of the characters competing for the female spots is Eirika. But the one I'm rooting for, the one I'd vote for if I had picked one of them to vote for, is Micaiah. Because as much as I like Eirika more, I think a Micaiah alt would add more to the game. Eirika's greater number of alts, particularly multiple non-seasonal alts, means she'd get less out of it, and Tellius could really use more attention.

Camilla's situation is even more extreme, and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) by her fans' lack of acknowledgement of that or concern for the consequences, to pick another character they like instead. There's certainly some anti-Camilla shit-slinging that goes too far, and I can understand the desire to push back against it, but there are more important things at stake here.

I personally embrace the direction that Awakening and Fates is leading towards. There is nothing wrong with fan service and I personally like it. And if that is what it takes to drive sales, then all the better too. What I absolutely do not want to happen is Fire Emblem suffering the same fate as Advance Wars. As long as Fire Emblem makes a profit, I am fine with whatever method they use.

Since Awakening Anna does not have a realistic chance of winning second place, the rest of my votes go towards Camilla. Between Camilla and Micaiah, I prefer Camilla because I have played her game and I like her doting personality. I do not know much about Micaiah since I have not played her game, so voting for her is not appealing to me. If it was between F!Robin and Camilla though, I think I would have just split my votes between those two.

I think what is important is for fans to vote however they want so Intelligent Systems can better gauge what is profitable and what is not. Shadows of Valentia is a good game, but it does not have the mass appeal of Awakening and Fates. I am fine with Intelligent Systems making games like Shadows of Valentia as long as it does not jeopardize their long term sustainability.

Edited January 25, 2019 by XRay

[Fabulously Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

If that means those games will force their female characters into ones like Fates, I'll pass.

I don't want IS to get even more convinced that kind of approach is the way to go, that just hurts the games and further drives people who aren't straight guys away. I think it's quite selfish to disregard that concern and encourage it anyway.

Personally, my favorite of the characters competing for the female spots is Eirika. But the one I'm rooting for, the one I'd vote for if I had picked one of them to vote for, is Micaiah. Because as much as I like Eirika more, I think a Micaiah alt would add more to the game. Eirika's greater number of alts, particularly multiple non-seasonal alts, means she'd get less out of it, and Tellius could really use more attention.

Camilla's situation is even more extreme, and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) by her fans' lack of acknowledgement of that or concern for the consequences, to pick another character they like instead. There's certainly some anti-Camilla shit-slinging that goes too far, and I can understand the desire to push back against it, but there are more important things at stake here.

I see it this way. In real life, women like Camilla and Charlotte exist, in large quantities no less. Spend 5 minutes on any dating app and you'll see plenty of them. I know I do.

 

And that isn't a condemnation. Should we not treat these types of sexually-endowed women with the same respect as the others. Some have no control of it and are naturally so. Others do. Either way, they are in no way lesser than other women.  

 

Even in Fates, there are only two such characters (3 if you count Kagero, which I don't). That's a significantly lower percentage than the percentage of real life women that would be comparable to their type. 

 

Meanwhile, the rest of the female cast is traditionally Fire Emblem, and Fire Emblem has been well known for its positive portrayals of such. This isn't to say that I want a majority of female characters to be Camillas, but if each game in the future has one or two, that won't be such an outrageous or unrealistic thing.

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, Etheus said:

I see it this way. In real life, women like Camilla and Charlotte exist, in large quantities no less. Spend 5 minutes on any dating app and you'll see plenty of them. I know I do.

 

And that isn't a condemnation. Should we not treat these types of sexually-endowed women with the same respect as the others. Some have no control of it and are naturally so. Others do. Either way, they are in no way lesser than other women.  

 

Even in Fates, there are only two such characters (3 if you count Kagero, which I don't). That's a significantly lower percentage than the percentage of real life women that would be comparable to their type. 

 

Meanwhile, the rest of the female cast is traditionally Fire Emblem, and Fire Emblem has been well known for its positive portrayals of such. This isn't to say that I want a majority of female characters to be Camillas, but if each game in the future has one or two, that won't be such an outrageous or unrealistic thing.

I'm not talking about body type at all. I said outfits.

(Edit: At least, I did once I edited my post to fix the missing words in the first line, which looks like it was after you started replying.)

Edited January 25, 2019 by Othin

[Michelaar]

11 minutes ago, Othin said:

Camilla's situation is even more extreme, and I'm disappointed (but not surprised) by her fans' lack of acknowledgement of that or concern for the consequences, to pick another character they like instead. There's certainly some anti-Camilla shit-slinging that goes too far, and I can understand the desire to push back against it, but there are more important things at stake here.

Oh no, the world might end if Camilla wins!

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

Oh no, the world might end if Camilla wins!

I made it very clear what I'm saying is at stake. Do you disagree?

[Michelaar]

1 minute ago, Othin said:

I made it very clear what I'm saying is at stake. Do you disagree?

I mostly just don't understand. What consequences lmao. All this means is who gets an alt or not in a mobile game.

[GrandeRampel]

5 minutes ago, Othin said:

If that means those games will force their female characters into outfits like the ones in Fates, I'll pass.

I don't want IS to get even more convinced that kind of approach is the way to go, that just hurts the games and further drives people who aren't straight guys away. I think it's quite selfish to disregard that concern and encourage it anyway.

Honestly you are being a bit pessimistic. Since Fates we have gotten Warriors, Echoes and Heroes. Echoes didn't have much fanservice, in Heroes we waited almost a year before we got Loki, and we had no other fanservice heavy character. Warriors has some fanservice, mainly with the costumes but nothing too terrible.

And the two female character we saw in 3Houses were dressed modestly (granted, one is a little girl).

Honestly if Fates and Camilla's popularity means we get a token character obsessed with the MC (Faye, and Sharena can be pretty obsessed with Kiran at times) and a token seductress (Loki, Nuibaba) with each new game, I say no big deal. It's just two characters out of a cast of probably 100. They won't ruin the entire game for people.

And if you are upset about the skirts Pegasus Knights always wear and how skimpy the Dark Mages' robes are I get it, but it wasn't Fates that started either of these.

And I won't worry about driving the female fans away. They know how to throw them a bone. Look at how much official merchandise Leo and Takumi STILL get.

[Poimagic]

I think it funny. People hate the idea of Camilla winning, and don’t want her to win.

And yet some same people, or different people, are either voting because they like her, or voting to see the salt rain

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Michelaar said:

I mostly just don't understand. What consequences lmao. All this means is who gets an alt or not in a mobile game.

"If that means those games will force their female characters into outfits like the ones in Fates, I'll pass.

I don't want IS to get even more convinced that kind of approach is the way to go, that just hurts the games and further drives people who aren't straight guys away. I think it's quite selfish to disregard that concern and encourage it anyway."

2 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Honestly you are being a bit pessimistic. Since Fates we have gotten Warriors, Echoes and Heroes. Echoes didn't have much fanservice, in Heroes we waited almost a year before we got Loki, and we had no other fanservice heavy character. Warriors has some fanservice, mainly with the costumes but nothing too terrible.

And the two female character we saw in 3Houses were dressed modestly (granted, one is a little girl).

Honestly if Fates and Camilla's popularity means we get a token character obsessed with the MC (Faye, and Sharena can be pretty obsessed with Kiran at times) and a token seductress (Loki, Nuibaba) with each new game, I say no big deal. It's just two characters out of a cast of probably 100. They won't ruin the entire game for people.

And if you are upset about the skirts Pegasus Knights always wear and how skimpy the Dark Mages' robes are I get it, but it wasn't Fates that started either of these.

And I won't worry about driving the female fans away. They know how to throw them a bone. Look at how much official merchandise Leo and Takumi STILL get.

Your idea of "won't ruin the game" is not universal. Throwing a few bones doesn't make up for that.

SOV was better than Fates, outfit-wise, but the DLC promotion for Pegasus Knights is a disaster. I've never played Warriors, so I can't comment on it, but given that I'm focusing on outfits, I'm skeptical of your "non too terrible" assessment. And Loki is just a tiny fraction of this in Heroes.

"Don't have characters go into battle in fetish outfits" shouldn't be too much to ask for.

[Michelaar]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

"If that means those games will force their female characters into outfits like the ones in Fates, I'll pass.

I don't want IS to get even more convinced that kind of approach is the way to go, that just hurts the games and further drives people who aren't straight guys away. I think it's quite selfish to disregard that concern and encourage it anyway."

That's ridiculous lmao. Last voting gauntlet different girls won, why would they SUDDENLY have most female characters dress like prostitutes? I really don't see your problem honestly. What you are being here is dramatic. It's just a poll to see who gets cool alts in fire emblem HEROES. C'mon Othin, being this pessimistic will not make you a happier person, nor will it anyone else. 

 

EDIT: Besides, fans don't vote on her for nothing. If you are really that concerned about future fire emblem games containing women wearing revealing clothing, then you need to find a hobby.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Michelaar

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

CYL is a popularity contest. Not an you-already-got-alts-so-even-if-you-are-popular-no-alt-should-be-given. Blame it on the developers for making her have the qualities to build up her fanbase.

I personally find no attraction to any of her alts and find no sex appeal in Camilla, but actually don’t give a damn that she is winning.

Edited January 25, 2019 by SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre

[Othin]

1 minute ago, Michelaar said:

That's ridiculous lmao. Last voting gauntlet different girls won, why would they SUDDENLY have most female characters dress like prostitutes? I really don't see your problem honestly. What you are being here is dramatic. It's just a poll to see who gets cool alts in fire emblem HEROES. C'mon Othin, being this pessimistic will not make you a happier person, nor will it anyone else. 

There's nothing sudden about it. Fates already has too many instances of female characters not being able to dress themselves properly. Camilla is the most notorious, but also like. Every knight-like class in the game, including the main character. It's absurd.

[Michelaar]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

There's nothing sudden about it. Fates already has too many instances of female characters not being able to dress themselves properly. Camilla is the most notorious, but also like. Every knight-like class in the game, including the main character. It's absurd.

How dare they do what gives them money! If you want to blame anyone, blame people for liking sexy women.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Michelaar

[XRay]

10 minutes ago, Poimagic said:

I think it funny. People hate the idea of Camilla winning, and don’t want her to win.

And yet some same people, or different people, are either voting because they like her, or voting to see the salt rain

It is a pretty normal reaction. In the United States 2016 election, there are plenty of people voting for Trump and Clinton just because they hate the other candidate more not because they like the candidate they are voting.

I am a fan of our political establishment, so I like both Clinton and Bush. If it was between one of them against anyone else, I will almost always vote for those two. Sadly Trump won, but there is not much I can do besides voting him out next election.

Edited January 25, 2019 by XRay

[Midnox]

3 hours ago, Anacybele said:

 

And yeah, I can't stand Camilla, so I'd rather see Micaiah and Robin take the no.1 and 2 spots.

Neither do I, everyone is all “She’s an interesting and well written character” and wannot in the worst written FE and IS is only exploiting the fan service of her. Seriously, LOOK AT HER NEW ALT ART . Oh well, it was inevitable I guess, might as well accept it. I’m happy with the dudes though, but I’ve expected Marth to be on top, not Alm

[Othin]

11 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

How dare they do what gives them money!

Yes, they do it because they think people will pay for it. That's literally the first thing I said.

That's the whole problem, and it's why Camilla's continued success is significant: because it sends them the message that they should double down on it. And it's self-fulfilling, because taking the game in that direction brings in more guys who want their female characters to go into battle in fetish outfits and drives away whatever fans don't want that. That causes the cycle to repeat, and each time, it messes up the games and fanbase even more.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Othin

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

3 minutes ago, Othin said:

There's nothing sudden about it. Fates already has too many instances of female characters not being able to dress themselves properly. Camilla is the most notorious, but also like. Every knight-like class in the game, including the main character. It's absurd.

I don't think Eirika is wearing practical combat wear from the pelvis on down. And Lachesis is suggested to have a disturbing appetite while also wearing a short skirt. Incest and then emotional compensatory partners when Eldigan goes bye-bye(buff and blond usually, but Finn must have reminded her of Elidgan in some way). Smashes both Beowulf and Finn to produce a child from each respectively, and has side exploits Noish and Dew, who just struck puberty .

[Michelaar]

2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Yes, they do it because they think people will pay for it. That's literally the first thing I said.

That's the whole problem, and it's why Camilla's continued success is significant: because it sends them the message that they should double down on it. And it's self-fulfilling, because taking the game in that direction brings in more guys who want their female characters to go into battle in fetish outfits and drives away whatever fans don't want that. That causes the cycle to repeat, and each time, it messes up the games and fanbase even more.

That's just how it is i'm afraid! I can quite see where you are coming from, however, there is very little you can do about it when that is how the general community has evolved. Sex sells, and IS knows.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

All this politics about alts and I have never voted for a character that exists in Heroes in any of these polls. I wish we could go back to the days when CYL was just a way to guage interest in who we want to see added.

[Othin]

3 minutes ago, SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre said:

I don't think Eirika is wearing practical combat wear from the pelvis on down. And Lachesis is suggested to have a disturbing appetite while also wearing a short skirt. Incest and then emotional compensatory partners when Eldigan goes bye-bye(buff and blond usually, but Finn must have reminded her of Elidgan in some way). Smashes both Beowulf and Finn to produce a child from each respectively, and has side exploits Noish and Dew, who just struck puberty .

There's a lot of stuff I don't like about the earlier games either, but outfits are one thing that's clearly gotten worse in recent games.

3 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

That's just how it is i'm afraid! I can quite see where you are coming from, however, there is very little you can do about it when that is how the general community has evolved. Sex sells, and IS knows.

I don't expect to be able to do much about it. All I'm asking is for people to recognize it as an issue, respect the concerns about it, and not encourage it further.

[Michelaar]

Just now, Othin said:

I don't expect to be able to do much about it. All I'm asking is for people to recognize it as an issue, respect the concerns about it, and not encourage it further.

One hand I can sympatize with your view, on the other I can't, since people are allowed to have their own opinions and not everyone thinks it is a big issue. I personally don't think you should be that worried, especially because Micaiah is still in second place. I hope you understand and apologies for being a bit rude earlier!

[Robert Stewart]

2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

All this politics about alts and I have never voted for a character that exists in Heroes in any of these polls. I wish we could go back to the days when CYL was just a way to guage interest in who we want to see added.

Tbh it would be interesting to see them do a poll just of characters not in the game yet. That'd be something.