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Supports in Three Houses

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22 hours ago, EJ107 said:

The big kicker is that there are a lot more people playing fire emblem who either enjoy same sex relationships in media or are LGBT themselves than people who are into loli's or some of the other small groups the game already panders to. So why not try to appeal to that larger group as well?

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We might have more people, but I'm afraid we have less money than otakus and that's what matters to IS. :')

13 hours ago, Lewyn said:

In terms of amount of characters, homosexuals are 3% of the population so that would mean 1 or 2 characters per game which they seem to have done recently (or more).  So they aren't really under representing just the representatives given are poor.  

Closer to 10% actually. And you have to keep in mind that any data on this is most likely underrepresenting too, since outing oneself, even just for a survey, is still not safe for everyone.

As for the supposed need for biological children, not only do trans people exist, so does magic in these games. But adoption would be just as valid unless they're making Holy Blood a central part of the plot again, a fresh spin on children, and everything said about it here is stuff I'd like to see in a future game. (No children for this one, though, please. Give it a break for one non-remake game.)

Seconding more or less everything that has been said about more, better, and non-avatar-exclusive queer representation, and also @NegativeExponents- and half the people in this thread, bless you.

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On 17/2/2019 at 3:35 PM, Guest Triggerhappyhavoc said:

So, according to this, me, a homosexual player "play straight" if there are no LGBT+ characters and that is okay? But it's not okay to make heterosexual players "play gay" due to having LGBT+ characters? Not to sound like more of an asshole than I already am but that seems unfair. Neither of us are being forced to "play straight" or "play gay", we're not forced to do anything. No one is going to be holding a gun to your head and say "I'll pull the trigger unless you marry Niles in Conquest", just how no one forced me to marry Chrom with Maribelle in Awakening for my first play-through. No one is forcing anyone to "play gay" here. All I see are people who want them/friends/family/loved ones to be represented in this game in some way, shape, or form. I'm not trying to diss on you or anything but I just want you to understand that nobody here is forcing anyone here to "play gay". Having a LGBT+ character in a game does not mean you are forced to like or even use said character. All I ask is that I get a character is at least a little bit like me in the sense that they are homosexual.

It IS unfair, sadly your sexual orientation differs from the majority of the fanbase that this game is aimed towards (Subjective i know but given the few options we got in Fates it at least shows Nintendo's aim is mostly the heterosexual group.) . Also to point out my argument about forcing players choose a same sex partner was in response to an user who said it was unfair to lose characters for going that route (In Fates where you lose a kid) and he/she sugested an special character,who can only be obtained via same sex pairings, as a solution which would force someone to do said pairing if he/she wanted all the characters (Which is probably one of the fanbase's favorite completion goal). Sorry that your only option in many games of these kind are to do heterosexual relationships but it will be a while before FE (Or most japanese games really) is focused to both groups.

Also part of my argument also pertains to an user desire for making exclusively gay/lesbian characters rather than Bi characters and another of having lsbian/gay characters who cant support avatar but only each other. And in that sense i just merely pointed out how unlikely it is given the waifu/husbando and avatar focus this series has had for a while. 

So my only points were that its unlikely for IS to make content that its only attainable via same sex pairings or that the avatar would be unable to support with any character that has support options.

Im not really that opposed to gay/lesbian options just saying those approachs arent really something that could work on the current FE climate.

 

On 17/2/2019 at 4:25 PM, NegativeExponents- said:

Why do people like to act like adopting or surrogates aren’t a real thing?

No one should have to explain why comparing real world statistics (whose results are unreliable btw) is a good reason to exclude a group of people in a fictional world but here we are anyways.

Foleo’s and Soleil’s S support explicitly states she is attracted to girls so please do some research before spreading misinformation as truth.

It’s true that there is no objectively good way of making a good gay character but the answer is not to get rid of them altogether.

That’s why multiple varied gay characters should exist in the series instead of just one that makes it seem like gay people only act a certain way. Campy gay people like Leon do exist. So do people like Niles. LGBT+ people come in all shapes and sizes to put it simply. Having them represented isn’t bad it’s just when they’re the only representation that it gets questionable. So basically everything that @Florete already told you last page.

Again she mentions cute again which is not a sexual preference. I just dont see Soleil as lesbian leaning due to the fact that she cant support a single girl, not even a female avatar (Honestly Rajhat being lesbian is kinda set aside by the fact that she is only interested in Corrin and no other girl). Which would had been easy to do given that there isnt really any drawback to it given that other than avatar these characters wont have any offspring.

Her fixation with cute girls seems more tied to her father's fixation with them rather than her own developing sexuality. 

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41 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

It IS unfair, sadly your sexual orientation differs from the majority of the fanbase that this game is aimed towards (Subjective i know but given the few options we got in Fates it at least shows Nintendo's aim is mostly the heterosexual group.) . Also to point out my argument about forcing players choose a same sex partner was in response to an user who said it was unfair to lose characters for going that route (In Fates where you lose a kid) and he/she sugested an special character,who can only be obtained via same sex pairings, as a solution which would force someone to do said pairing if he/she wanted all the characters (Which is probably one of the fanbase's favorite completion goal). Sorry that your only option in many games of these kind are to do heterosexual relationships but it will be a while before FE (Or most japanese games really) is focused to both groups.

Also part of my argument also pertains to an user desire for making exclusively gay/lesbian characters rather than Bi characters and another of having lsbian/gay characters who cant support avatar but only each other. And in that sense i just merely pointed out how unlikely it is given the waifu/husbando and avatar focus this series has had for a while. 

So my only points were that its unlikely for IS to make content that its only attainable via same sex pairings or that the avatar would be unable to support with any character that has support options.

Im not really that opposed to gay/lesbian options just saying those approachs arent really something that could work on the current FE climate.

You know that's a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

And this isn't anywhere near a Fire Emblem specific thing. Most major media ignores demographics that aren't "mainstream" enough and then uses the "well they aren't the target audience" excuse. Not just about queer stuff, either: as @Lewyn noted, it's also an issue with other topics like race.

It's really gotten old, and a lot of us are pretty sick of it. We can expect better, and I'm not going to stop calling for it.

Edited by Othin

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Out of the characters we've seen so far, the only one with a darker skin tone is Claude, which is kinda disappointing. I like Claude from what I've seen of him so far, but it would be nice to have more characters with varied races. The characters overall kinda don't stand apart much and I think having some different races would've helped design-wise as well as for representation. But obviously it's not like we've seen all of the characters in the game yet so hopefully there'll be at least one or two more. (I mean, even more than that would be ideal, but I know not to get my hopes up lol)

 

I think it would be good to have maybe at least 1 gay character and 1+ bi character per gender. I also think IS and Nintendo know that they would receive some amount of backlash if there weren't any LGBT+ characters in Three Houses since they were included in Fates. The more queer characters, the better, to me, but I think we can expect at least two.

I've seen people complain about potentially missing out on a child character but 1) as many people have already mentioned, adoptions/surrogates are a thing (and also magic) and 2) there may not even be a second gen in three houses, so I don't think that's really a viable excuse to not include gay/bi characters in this game.

Another point I've seen people try to make is that straight people won't like that they can't romance a character that is gay and not bi, but honestly while I enjoy the matchmaking aspects of FE it's not the end of the world to have a character that can't be romanced by the avatar. In fact, I think it would be a good thing. Other games, such as Stardew Valley, have regular villagers that are not romance-able, and it's something I think FE would benefit from (not having the world revolve around the avatar so much).

 

As for supports, hopefully they'll focus on quality over quantity, especially after Fates. I'll remain optimistic for now.

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1 hour ago, Othin said:

You know that's a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

And this isn't anywhere near a Fire Emblem specific thing. Most major media ignores demographics that aren't "mainstream" enough and then uses the "well they aren't the target audience" excuse. Not just about queer stuff, either: as @Lewyn noted, it's also an issue with other topics like race.

It's really gotten old, and a lot of us are pretty sick of it. We can expect better, and I'm not going to stop calling for it.

Well thats quite an uphill battle in Japan.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/25/japan-will-force-transgender-people-to-be-sterilized-before-transitioning/

They have LOOOOOOONG way to go before you get them to decide to be inclusive to the degree the west has been. Its just that this kind of thing has gotten people quite bitter on franchises, like for instance the Persona fanbase who wants gay and trans content but its just a thing that japanese are slowly (And i mean SLOWly) getting introduced into, so i think people just have to adjust expectations, moreso in a series which relies heavily in relationships like Fire Emblem and Persona do.

IS already did the first steps in fates but dont expect them to try to push the envelope just yet (Moreso when those steps were merely aiming at a demographic that doesnt really wants such content for the progressive aspect of it).

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4 minutes ago, kratoscar2008 said:

Well thats quite an uphill battle in Japan.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/25/japan-will-force-transgender-people-to-be-sterilized-before-transitioning/

They have LOOOOOOONG way to go before you get them to decide to be inclusive to the degree the west has been. Its just that this kind of thing has gotten people quite bitter on franchises, like for instance the Persona fanbase who wants gay and trans content but its just a thing that japanese are slowly (And i mean SLOWly) getting introduced into, so i think people just have to adjust expectations, moreso in a series which relies heavily in relationships like Fire Emblem and Persona do.

IS already did the first steps in fates but dont expect them to try to push the envelope just yet (Moreso when those steps were merely aiming at a demographic that doesnt really wants such content for the progressive aspect of it).

The west still has a long way to go, too. Only way things change anywhere is when people push for it.

To be sure, I'll be surprised if Three Houses actually ends up much better than Fates about queer stuff. Doesn't mean I have to think their excuses are any good.

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this thread has only shown me that marriage in fire emblem was a mistake and is by far the greatest cancer of this fanbase

3 hours ago, kratoscar2008 said:

I fail to see what is wrong with this, all that it says is that you must have begun actually transitioning before legal documents can be changed, this includes sterilization due to the changes in genitals or the use of hormones(these are a part of the process), the law prevents you from walking in and calling yourself the opposite sex and having legal documents changed without doing anything at all.

if you are going to transition you forfeit your chances at future children due to how the process works(it is an uncomfortable topic, I know, but I generally advise understanding how it works for reference, my boss once asked me if he could decide to transition and chop off "snoopy" and sell him to cure erectile dysfunction and I had to go on a long explanation about how the "Johnny John Johnson" is used in the surgery to get the proper look), that title was just used to generate clicks because people see "sterilization" and think "that's horrible", you wouldn't have cared if the title was "japan will continue requiring people to begin the process of transitioning before changing legal documents".

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36 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

this thread has only shown me that marriage in fire emblem was a mistake and is by far the greatest cancer of this fanbase

I fail to see what is wrong with this, all that it says is that you must have begun actually transitioning before legal documents can be changed, this includes sterilization due to the changes in genitals or the use of hormones(these are a part of the process), the law prevents you from walking in and calling yourself the opposite sex and having legal documents changed without doing anything at all.

if you are going to transition you forfeit your chances at future children due to how the process works(it is an uncomfortable topic, I know, but I generally advise understanding how it works for reference, my boss once asked me if he could decide to transition and chop off "snoopy" and sell him to cure erectile dysfunction and I had to go on a long explanation about how the "Johnny John Johnson" is used in the surgery to get the proper look), that title was just used to generate clicks because people see "sterilization" and think "that's horrible", you wouldn't have cared if the title was "japan will continue requiring people to begin the process of transitioning before changing legal documents".

I will only post about this once, because the subject you're engaging with isn't really part of the topic.

I suggest you read more carefully. You are right that the government wants transgender people to completely transition in order to have their gender officially changed on their documents, but some transgender people don't want that. That requirement in itself is limiting. And sterilization is the right wording because "you forfeit your chances at future children due to how the process works." If I dive too deep into (trans)gender politics, the topic will be heavily derailed, but I just wanted to give some perspective as to why this ruling shows that Japan, the government at the least, is not very open towards the LGBTQ+ community. 

6 hours ago, Othin said:

It's really gotten old, and a lot of us are pretty sick of it. We can expect better, and I'm not going to stop calling for it.

I really hope that IS takes the positive response from the fanbase about Leon, because they could realize how making a more inclusive world in FE makes people happier in the long run.

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46 minutes ago, Aera said:

I really hope that IS takes the positive response from the fanbase about Leon, because they could realize how making a more inclusive world in FE makes people happier in the long run.

While I agree with this sentiment completely but I wouldn’t keep my hopes up. A lot of the talk here focused on Japan and US and their stance on the issue. However, people seem to forget that Nintendo is currently trying to enter the Chinese and South Korean markets which I believe are even more conservative on the issue. Echoes was the first FE game that was translated into Chinese and Three Houses will also have a Chinese localisation. I’m not sure if the game will be translated into Korean but I think it’s just a matter of ‘when’ not ‘if’.

I really don’t expect them going too liberal on LGBTQ+ characters. 

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Controversy be damned, I want all the characters to be bi sexual.

 

People are just going to be offended no matter what.

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14 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Controversy be damned, I want all the characters to be bi sexual.

 

People are just going to be offended no matter what.

I don't. Not because I have a problem with bi or homosexual love interests, but purely because I think 'Everyone is bi' is lazy writing.

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1 hour ago, Onestep said:

I don't. Not because I have a problem with bi or homosexual love interests, but purely because I think 'Everyone is bi' is lazy writing.

Writing over 30 support dialogues is hardly lazy. Not that they would ever go the extra effort.

 

"Good writing" is over rated anyways, "bad writing" is the real problem

Edited by Zangetsu

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1 hour ago, Onestep said:

I don't. Not because I have a problem with bi or homosexual love interests, but purely because I think 'Everyone is bi' is lazy writing.

So is forcing every character to be able to marry every character of the opposite sex or having children someone born and raised into adults instantly so that you can recruit them as units. Yet here we are. 

If the options are having no same sex options or one token option for the MU, or everyone being bi, everyone being bi is by far the better option because of all the extra choice. 

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12 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Writing over 30 support dialogues is hardly lazy. Not that they would ever go the extra effort.

 

"Good writing" is over rated anyways, "bad writing" is the real problem

It's not lazy in the literal sense (as it's more physical work) but it's lazy in the narrative sense and forces writers to write relationship segments more generically due to increased number of supports. Honestly, I'd rather see more limitations on supports between characters, not less. Awakening/Fate style 'Everyone can date everyone' was fine for a while, but I'd rather see a smaller number of higher quality supports than a the swathe we got.

2 minutes ago, EJ107 said:

So is forcing every character to be able to marry every character of the opposite sex or having children someone born and raised into adults instantly so that you can recruit them as units. Yet here we are. 

If the options are having no same sex options or one token option for the MU, or everyone being bi, everyone being bi is by far the better option because of all the extra choice. 

As I said, I have significant criticism of how Awakening/Fates handled supports. It was essentially a relationship sandbox, and while that allows for greater player freedom, it also makes it far more difficult for the writers to actually make anything good, since they have to account for all options possible. Smaller numbers of supports and relationships to account for allow for them to devote their efforts to making those relationships deeper, rather than churning out support after support.

Making everyone bisexual is simply compounding the problem you describe of sandbox relationships, where the player feels the need to get a '100% score' rather than simply follow a firm narrative. Extra choice is not always good, particularly for writing.

Again, I feel the need to clarify that I do support bi/gay supports being in, but everyone is bi is rarely well done, and when it is well done, it's typically  only in RPG's where the only relationships involved are the player characters, not a whole swathe of NPC's. Take Pathfinder: Kingmaker for example. Of the 7 love interests, 5 are bisexual and two straight. That works because the only relationships the writers have to account for are the player's (and possible Octavia's and Regongar's). If they were all screwing around with each other at player discretion, I can guarantee you the writing quality would nosedive. And this, quite frankly, is with much better writers than IS have.

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35 minutes ago, Onestep said:

It's not lazy in the literal sense (as it's more physical work) but it's lazy in the narrative sense and forces writers to write relationship segments more generically due to increased number of supports. Honestly, I'd rather see more limitations on supports between characters, not less. Awakening/Fate style 'Everyone can date everyone' was fine for a while, but I'd rather see a smaller number of higher quality supports than a the swathe we got.

Haven't gotten to Sacred Stone yet, but as far I'm concern 3DS supports allow more ways to flesh out a character compare to GBA supports. Also weird that people seem to have this idea that a character has to automatically hook up with someone. Pretty sure more than one person play an entire game without actually S supporting & maxing any support with either character.

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7 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Haven't gotten to Sacred Stone yet, but as far I'm concern 3DS supports allow more ways to flesh out a character compare to GBA supports. Also weird that people seem to have this idea that a character has to automatically hook up with someone. Pretty sure more than one person play an entire game without actually S supporting & maxing any support with either character.

You're correct in that more supports theoretically allow more fleshing out. But because they have to allow for every other support, they tend to be generic more often than not. The only truly unique things tend to occur in S supports, because those are the only areas the writers KNEW that the character would only have one of. There are exceptions, but the majority are pretty plain. They're like bread. There's substance and bulk, but it's not that interesting.

Also, I agree with the second point. It's quite rare that I get even half the cast to pair up.

Edited by Onestep

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48 minutes ago, Onestep said:

You're correct in that more supports theoretically allow more fleshing out. But because they have to allow for every other support, they tend to be generic more often than not. The only truly unique things tend to occur in S supports, because those are the only areas the writers KNEW that the character would only have one of. There are exceptions, but the majority are pretty plain. They're like bread. There's substance and bulk, but it's not that interesting.

Also, I agree with the second point. It's quite rare that I get even half the cast to pair up.

Yeah, it inherently leads to lower quality. I remember noticing even in Awakening that the supports were so much less substantive than the ones from earlier games, they just pick a gimmick for every pair and have three conversations about it rather than focusing on characters that actually have an interesting dynamic.

I think it'd be best to go back to more limited options. Unfortunately, FE doesn't seem interested in going in that direction, especially based on the reception SOV got. If it's going to allow for shoving any pair of characters together regardless of reasons why they shouldn't be compatible, it should go all the way rather than having gender be the one factor that can get in the way.

To reiterate the Fates point: you're given the option to marry any of your siblings, or to have someone else marry them, have a kid, drop the kid in a time warp realm, come back a day later when the kid has grown up, recruit the kid into your army, and marry the kid. Having 100% of your army coincidentally all be bi would be not even close to as weird as that.

The message FE is sending right now is: "You can have any wish fulfillment relationship you want, no matter how niche or contrived that wish is, but only it's for an M/F relationship. If you want an M/M or F/F relationship, you get little or nothing." That's not cool.

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Guest Bokchoy

I like the idea of where you can only have certain supports (C..B..A) after certain chapters. It doesn't solve the problems and to me "once a student always a student", but it's a way to ease the whole student/teacher thing?

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1 hour ago, Guest Bokchoy said:

I like the idea of where you can only have certain supports (C..B..A) after certain chapters. It doesn't solve the problems and to me "once a student always a student", but it's a way to ease the whole student/teacher thing?

I would hope something like this would be the case. Otherwise you'll have stuff like Byleth marrying Edelhart on Chapter 3.

Quote

 

Yeah, it inherently leads to lower quality. I remember noticing even in Awakening that the supports were so much less substantive than the ones from earlier games, they just pick a gimmick for every pair and have three conversations about it rather than focusing on characters that actually have an interesting dynamic.

I think it'd be best to go back to more limited options. Unfortunately, FE doesn't seem interested in going in that direction, especially based on the reception SOV got. If it's going to allow for shoving any pair of characters together regardless of reasons why they shouldn't be compatible, it should go all the way rather than having gender be the one factor that can get in the way.

To reiterate the Fates point: you're given the option to marry any of your siblings, or to have someone else marry them, have a kid, drop the kid in a time warp realm, come back a day later when the kid has grown up, recruit the kid into your army, and marry the kid. Having 100% of your army coincidentally all be bi would be not even close to as weird as that.

The message FE is sending right now is: "You can have any wish fulfillment relationship you want, no matter how niche or contrived that wish is, but only it's for an M/F relationship. If you want an M/M or F/F relationship, you get little or nothing." That's not cool.

 

I mean, if we go with everyone being bisexual, then we have to rule out a second gen ever appearing again in-game(Not that I'm wholly against that). Unless they use magic or something to produce a child, but then we're entering weird areas. I like Fire Emblem as a somewhat grounded Medieval Fantasy. If the entire cast is bisexual and using magic to produce children from thehomosexual relationships, then we've gone way off from that and entered some bottomless pit of player pandering. The Deeprealm Hyperbolic Time Chamber was absolutely moronic, but the fact that that stupid thing existed is no reason to justify something equally dumb.

I'd honestly rather they just focus on 2-3 bisexual options and 2-3 homosexual options, and actually build those characters to be interesting regardless of their sexuality, along with all the straight ones. Then I can feel that they're individuals in an actual world and their romance meaningful, rather than just shallow pandering. I mean, I probably won't romance any of the homosexual ones anyway, but I'd rather they be of high quality and improve the cast.

I suppose to put it simply, I just don't feel that the answer to bad pandering (Fates's Second Gen and so on) is more bad pandering. It won't improve the series, just open it up to more mockery.

Edited by Onestep

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25 minutes ago, Onestep said:

I'd honestly rather they just focus on 2-3 bisexual options and 2-3 homosexual options, and actually build those characters to be interesting regardless of their sexuality, along with all the straight ones. Then I can feel that they're individuals in an actual world and their romance meaningful, rather than just shallow pandering. I mean, I probably won't romance any of the homosexual ones anyway, but I'd rather they be of high quality and improve the cast.

I suppose to put it simply, I just don't feel that the answer to bad pandering (Fates's Second Gen and so on) is more bad pandering. It won't improve the series, just open it up to more mockery.

2

To add on to this, Fire Emblem already gets made fun of outside of the community for being a dating sim. Having everyone being able to romance each other is just going to make Fire Emblem an even bigger laughing stock. Not to mention that there are games in Japan that do the pairing/shipping thing way better than FE already so there's no need for FE to even go this route.

Also, if everyone is written to be bisexual, we won't get to see interesting relationships like Gray/Clair or Leon/Valbar. Characters like Laslow and Charlotte will be even more shallow because now Laslow just flirts with anyone with legs and Charlotte will marry anyone with money regardless of their gender. The likelihood of having messily written characters like Soleil will also increase. Making everyone bisexual is just going to raise even more problems and not fix anything. 

I always thought the focus of Fire Emblem games should be the stories, gameplay and characterization...not who can romance who. I'd also prefer one or two well written gay/bisexual character than 40 poorly written bisexual characters. 

Edited by zuibangde

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53 minutes ago, Onestep said:

I mean, if we go with everyone being bisexual, then we have to rule out a second gen ever appearing again in-game(Not that I'm wholly against that). Unless they use magic or something to produce a child, but then we're entering weird areas. I like Fire Emblem as a somewhat grounded Medieval Fantasy. If the entire cast is bisexual and using magic to produce children from thehomosexual relationships, then we've gone way off from that and entered some bottomless pit of player pandering. The Deeprealm Hyperbolic Time Chamber was absolutely moronic, but the fact that that stupid thing existed is no reason to justify something equally dumb.

I'd honestly rather they just focus on 2-3 bisexual options and 2-3 homosexual options, and actually build those characters to be interesting regardless of their sexuality, along with all the straight ones. Then I can feel that they're individuals in an actual world and their romance meaningful, rather than just shallow pandering. I mean, I probably won't romance any of the homosexual ones anyway, but I'd rather they be of high quality and improve the cast.

I suppose to put it simply, I just don't feel that the answer to bad pandering (Fates's Second Gen and so on) is more bad pandering. It won't improve the series, just open it up to more mockery.

If we ever get more time-accelerated babies, we're already in far weirder territory than magic babies. And as people brought up earlier, adoption and surrogates are also options anyway, in the event of a less ridiculous second gen. There's no need for fussing about a genetic connection.

Also, I don't think you're understanding that the request is for queer characters that will feel meaningful to queer players. It doesn't need to feel meaningful to straight players: in fact, the two goals are often at odds in media.

If it's going to do bad pandering, it should do equal-opportunity bad pandering. If it's not willing to do equal-opportunity bad pandering, it shouldn't do bad pandering at all. It's that simple.

As for mockery, that's a ridiculous argument. Everything queer gets mocked, that's just a problem of the people doing the mocking. Letting them control what does or doesn't get made is just pandering to homophobia.

Edit: To clarify - I do think it'd be better to have a few exclusively gay characters and several bi characters than to have everyone be bi. But I'm inclined to believe that that's even less realistic at this point than having everyone be bi. If they're willing to let you marry your siblings and your siblings' kids, I'm highly skeptical that they'd ever include a girl who won't marry the male avatar or a guy who won't marry the female avatar. And if wish fulfillment means no one gets to be exclusively gay, it should also mean no one gets to be exclusively straight. That's all I'm saying.

Edited by Othin

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3 hours ago, Othin said:

Yeah, it inherently leads to lower quality. I remember noticing even in Awakening that the supports were so much less substantive than the ones from earlier games, they just pick a gimmick for every pair and have three conversations about it rather than focusing on characters that actually have an interesting dynamic.

 

*Disclaimer reminding there were dud supports in prior FEs too. See HectorxFlorina, VaidaxDorcas, TethysxRennac, KnollxLute, IlyanaxAnyone, etc.. Less quantity does not always equal higher quality.

 

I'm surprised this topic has gone on for so long. Or that a mod never stepped in for anything. Still, given I'm presently agnostic in my sexual preferences, I do support greater and good representation of the LGBTQI+ in gaming and all forms of entertainment media and society as a whole.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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12 minutes ago, Othin said:

If we ever get more time-accelerated babies, we're already in far weirder territory than magic babies. And as people brought up earlier, adoption and surrogates are also options anyway, in the event of a less ridiculous second gen. There's no need for fussing about a genetic connection.

Also, I don't think you're understanding that the request is for queer characters that will feel meaningful to queer players. It doesn't need to feel meaningful to straight players: in fact, the two goals are often at odds in media.

If it's going to do bad pandering, it should do equal-opportunity bad pandering. If it's not willing to do equal-opportunity bad pandering, it shouldn't do bad pandering at all. It's that simple.

As for mockery, that's a ridiculous argument. Everything queer gets mocked, that's just a problem of the people doing the mocking. Letting them control what does or doesn't get made is just pandering to homophobia.

I think both the time-accelerated babies and magic babies are both absurd. I've said as much.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I'm not part of the LGBTQ+ community, and I can't express what they want (and each segment of that community likely wants different things). I've said what I want and why I think it's reasonable. I agree that if bad pandering is the way they're going, then it should be more inclusive. Everyone being bi is, by definition, not more inclusive, any more than the whole cast being gay or the whole cast being straight would be. More bisexuals and homosexuals overall would be more inclusive. I don't even care if they want to split it three equal ways.

Awakening was subject to mockery even when it was entirely straight. It's not a homosexual thing, it's a 'what was originally a solid fantasy SRPG series is becoming a dating sim' thing.

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I wouldn't mind if they made everyone bi, I feel like it's the option that would make everyone happy without limiting options for any of the players, even if it's not perfect writing, it won't matter to me becasue it won't be something that I would think too much about, if at all. 

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