Jump to content
Alastor15243

Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! MISSION COMPLETE! ...For now.

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Now, I think the free day and explore action uses are a separate issue (since those are part of the game's main loop and thus there is more of an eye to balancing them) and if you think something is poorly balanced there that's a discussion worth having. Although it's worth emphasizing even before we start that the devs very clearly considered real time a balancer in those choices, too (e.g. Rest is an underpowered option if time is not considered, but a reasonable one if it is; same with seminars to a less extreme extent).

Then do explain how fish is so much more powerful than vegetables and red meat, to the point that it needs to be gated behind a completely different, and far more grind-y, system.

Edited by Alastor15243

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what you're asking me to do, or what you didn't understand about my point.

To re-state it again: real time matters. The devs clearly consider real time to be a balancer for some things, fishing included. Such is the nature of anything generally termed grinding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

To re-state it again: real time matters. The devs clearly consider real time to be a balancer for some things, fishing included. Such is the nature of anything generally termed grinding.

And therefore, by your logic, the time it takes to grind for fish is considered equal to the investment of resources it takes to obtain vegetables or red meat, correct? Or else, fish is significantly better than the other two to justify how much "harder" it is to obtain. Or, third option, my thesis: it wasn't actually a deliberate act of balance at all, but instead a failure of one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Alastor15243 said:

And therefore, by your logic, the time it takes to grind for fish is considered equal to the investment of resources it takes to obtain vegetables or red meat, correct? Or else, fish is significantly better than the other two to justify how much "harder" it is to obtain. Or, third option, my thesis: it wasn't actually a deliberate act of balance at all, but instead a failure of one.

Meat, vegetables, and fish are all relatively trivial to obtain in modest numbers, enough to power plenty of meal-sharing. (Meat is storebought, veggies are restocked by gardening which takes little real time, and a small amount of fish is easily obtained. Additionally, all three are obtained in significant numbers just by doing the various quests in the game.)

If you want to spam bullhead or teutates pike stat-boosting recipes every single week, then yeah, that's gonna take some grinding. If you want to sell hundreds of fish for a bit of extra cash, that's gonna take grinding. If you want to hit A+ professor rank in chapter 9, that's gonna take (a lot of) grinding. All of those are clearly above what the player is expected to do. This seems fair, and in line with general RPG design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Meat, vegetables, and fish are all relatively trivial to obtain in modest numbers, enough to power plenty of meal-sharing. (Meat is storebought, veggies are restocked by gardening which takes little real time, and a small amount of fish is easily obtained. Additionally, all three are obtained in significant numbers just by doing the various quests in the game.)

What do you define as "a small amount of fish"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enough that you're able to make balanced* use of the Share a Meal option to recharge your motivation.

I don't do much fishing in this game (I usually only do it if I'm <100 prof exp from a levelup, or when the game has a quest related to it), and I find I have enough.

*balanced in the sense that you aren't just using the same exact set of meals each week; that is, you're balancing out which options you're choosing

Edited by Dark Holy Elf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Enough that you're able to make balanced* use of the Share a Meal option to recharge your motivation.

I don't do much fishing in this game (I usually only do it if I'm <100 prof exp from a levelup, or when the game has a quest related to it), and I find I have enough.

*balanced in the sense that you aren't just using the same exact set of meals each week; that is, you're balancing out which options you're choosing

Next exploration opportunity I get I'm thoroughly investigating the costs and yields of each system to see exactly what sort of numerical value you believe the developers deliberately placed on grinding. Because I genuinely do not believe for a single second that the devs had any idea what they were doing when it comes to "balancing grinding" when the game makes it clear they had no idea what they were doing balancing much of anything.

Edited by Alastor15243

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

3: As far as I'm concerned, the second you try to put a limit on something's use, the interpretation that it was intended to be overpowered, broken and not a part of how the game was balanced flies out the window. Everywhere you go, you see at least the attempt at putting a limit on these broken, time-sinking mechanics, from mutually exclusive options for what to do with a free day, to limited actions per free day, to limited free days per month. These weren't instances of "let's put these things in as an optional thing that we know full well breaks the game". These were, by all appearances, instances of the devs mistakenly going "yeah, this is balanced, right?".

I don't agree with this. Just because something is finite doesn't mean that you're supposed to push it to its limit. Let's look at some other examples from Fire Emblem:

  • In Sacred Stones, it is possible to grind in the Tower and the Ruins for stat boosters. While there's no limit on how many of these you can receive, there is a limit on how many you can use, since units have stat caps. This does not imply that you're supposed to grind all your units up to max stats.
  • In Shadows of Valentia, it's possible to over-level before reclassing, but only up to level 20. This doesn't imply that you're supposed to grind to level 20 before you ever promote.
  • In Fates, the maximum forge level for a weapon is +7. This doesn't imply that you're supposed to grind for money and resources until you can get everyone a +7 weapon.
  • In Three Houses, every battle lasts a maximum of 99 turns. This doesn't imply that you're supposed to use all of those turns doing broken weapon grinding.

These things aren't limited because of balance (or if they are, then they are balanced ludicrously poorly). They are limited to protect an obsessive player from their own self-destructive behaviours. They're basically a kindly barkeep saying "I'm going to have to cut you off there, pal. How about I get you a glass of water instead?"

It's obvious considerably less time-consuming to use every single piece of available bait in Three Houses than it is to get all characters a +7 forged weapon in Fates, but both cases are past the point where it stops being either fun or helpful for the vast majority of players. For most players, it doesn't matter whether they can have 40 pieces of bait per month, 400, or 4,000,000. In all cases, it's "more than I need".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, lenticular said:

In Sacred Stones, it is possible to grind in the Tower and the Ruins for stat boosters. While there's no limit on how many of these you can receive, there is a limit on how many you can use, since units have stat caps. This does not imply that you're supposed to grind all your units up to max stats.

No, but that's quite plainly not the purpose that limit was built for, considering stat caps predate that concept entirely. Stat caps exist to put an upward cap on how strong a unit can be through things like lucky growth rates, and these limits are usually incredibly realistic to hit for any stat you have a good growth rate in. Can you point to an alternative purpose of limiting fish, or divine pulse, or the number of things you can do a month?

11 minutes ago, lenticular said:

In Shadows of Valentia, it's possible to over-level before reclassing, but only up to level 20. This doesn't imply that you're supposed to grind to level 20 before you ever promote.

Again, the level 20 cap predates Gaiden's grinding system and was not invented for it.

11 minutes ago, lenticular said:

In Fates, the maximum forge level for a weapon is +7. This doesn't imply that you're supposed to grind for money and resources until you can get everyone a +7 weapon.

Also not an example, because my statement was "the second you try to put a limit on something's use, the interpretation that it was intended to be overpowered, broken and not a part of how the game was balanced flies out the window". I don't think anyone has ever made the argument that forging was designed to be a deliberately-overpowered grinding method you're not supposed to use if you're looking for a challenge.

11 minutes ago, lenticular said:

In Three Houses, every battle lasts a maximum of 99 turns. This doesn't imply that you're supposed to use all of those turns doing broken weapon grinding.

That isn't for preventing grinding abuse, it's to prevent all of the actions the game needs to save for the purposes of potentially rewinding back to them from overloading the console.

Edited by Alastor15243

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not gonna butt into this one, because I'd much rather shed light on something that bothers me when I watch others play on YouTube (and I'm just too lazy to make a topic about this); why do people think that having their units carry nothing but weapons (with the sole exception being an accessory or shield, if even that) is a good idea?? Because I don't see the point of waltzing around like that, as it runs right into "diminishing returns", in addition to feeling amateurish at best. IMHO, I consider healing items a much better use of spare inventory slots than extra weapons, just in case things go to shit and my healers have already used their turns. This only really makes sense in Shadows of Valentia because of its inventory system (as well as Path of Radiance and Old Mystery, both of which split inventory into weapons and non-weapon items).

Edited by Shadow Mir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not gonna butt into this one, because I'd much rather shed light on something that bothers me when I watch others play on YouTube (and I'm just too lazy to make a topic about this); why do people think that having their units carry nothing but weapons (with the sole exception being an accessory or shield, if even that) is a good idea?? Because I don't see the point of waltzing around like that, as it runs right into "diminishing returns", in addition to feeling amateurish at best. IMHO, I consider healing items a much better use of spare inventory slots than extra weapons, just in case things go to shit and my healers have already used their turns. This only really makes sense in Shadows of Valentia because of its inventory system (as well as Path of Radiance and Old Mystery, both of which split inventory into weapons and non-weapon items).

Healing items become largely worthless outside of the early games. If you're playing well then your healers should be enough. You also don't get exp for using items while healers do for healing. And just in general the cost of giving up a combat unit's turn to heal themselves when they could use that turn to kill an enemy and eliminate a threat just generally isn't worth it. Trading also means you only need to have one healing item in your army, or access to the convoy in order to make use of it. There also isn't a massive amount of diminishing returns in carrying multiple weapons, especially if  unit has dual  weapon types. Generally speaking you want to at least have a powerful weapon, an accurate weapon, a 1-2 range weapon and a cheap disposable weapon (that'll usually overlap with the accurate weapon). That covers the main niches, but then you might also want to carry a weapon with effective damage and a high crit weapon too. Will you use every single one of these weapons every map? No, probably not, but the options they give you grants more versatility. You don't want to go into a battle wishing you had given a unit a hand axe or a silver sword when you suddenly find yourself in a position in which they need one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

And therefore, by your logic, the time it takes to grind for fish is considered equal to the investment of resources it takes to obtain vegetables or red meat, correct? Or else, fish is significantly better than the other two to justify how much "harder" it is to obtain. Or, third option, my thesis: it wasn't actually a deliberate act of balance at all, but instead a failure of one.

I'm confused - the game gives you too much fish, because you can buy a lot of bait each month. But the game also makes it too hard to get fish, relative to vegetables and non-fish meat. If this is what you're saying, it seems to be in contradiction. Like sure, it's "easy" to get fruits and vegetables, but you're held to a single set of them per week (via the greenhouse). Fish is slightly more out of your way, but also has a much taller ceiling. As for landmeats, I think the only regular way to get them is through certain Aux battles - if anything, that's more restrictive than either of the other two. These resources come in different ways, sure, but I don't see a need for any among them to be made "stronger" or "weaker" than the others.

58 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Healing items become largely worthless outside of the early games. If you're playing well then your healers should be enough. You also don't get exp for using items while healers do for healing. And just in general the cost of giving up a combat unit's turn to heal themselves when they could use that turn to kill an enemy and eliminate a threat just generally isn't worth it. Trading also means you only need to have one healing item in your army, or access to the convoy in order to make use of it. There also isn't a massive amount of diminishing returns in carrying multiple weapons, especially if  unit has dual  weapon types. Generally speaking you want to at least have a powerful weapon, an accurate weapon, a 1-2 range weapon and a cheap disposable weapon (that'll usually overlap with the accurate weapon). That covers the main niches, but then you might also want to carry a weapon with effective damage and a high crit weapon too. Will you use every single one of these weapons every map? No, probably not, but the options they give you grants more versatility. You don't want to go into a battle wishing you had given a unit a hand axe or a silver sword when you suddenly find yourself in a position in which they need one.

I still carry Vulneraries into most battles in 3H, but honestly I hardly use them beyond the earlygame. Pretty much all your magic users should have at least some healing capabilities. On top of that, healing can come from other resources, like Blessed/Sacred weapons or the Healing Focus art. The flip side, of course, is "do I really need that fifth weapon"? To which the answer is "no, not usually... but then again, I didn't need a healing item either".

Speaking to other games, I would generally say those more enemy-phase-focused (i.e. FE7, Sacred Stones) are where Vulneraries are more valuable, since you often don't need to attack on player phase. Also in Radiant Dawn, but that's moreso because healing items are busted in that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm confused - the game gives you too much fish, because you can buy a lot of bait each month. But the game also makes it too hard to get fish, relative to vegetables and non-fish meat. If this is what you're saying, it seems to be in contradiction. Like sure, it's "easy" to get fruits and vegetables, but you're held to a single set of them per week (via the greenhouse). Fish is slightly more out of your way, but also has a much taller ceiling. As for landmeats, I think the only regular way to get them is through certain Aux battles - if anything, that's more restrictive than either of the other two. These resources come in different ways, sure, but I don't see a need for any among them to be made "stronger" or "weaker" than the others.

I still carry Vulneraries into most battles in 3H, but honestly I hardly use them beyond the earlygame. Pretty much all your magic users should have at least some healing capabilities. On top of that, healing can come from other resources, like Blessed/Sacred weapons or the Healing Focus art. The flip side, of course, is "do I really need that fifth weapon"? To which the answer is "no, not usually... but then again, I didn't need a healing item either".

Speaking to other games, I would generally say those more enemy-phase-focused (i.e. FE7, Sacred Stones) are where Vulneraries are more valuable, since you often don't need to attack on player phase. Also in Radiant Dawn, but that's moreso because healing items are busted in that one.

Healing items are also pretty useful in Thracia since all healing items are elixirs and they're rather plentiful, coupled with the fact that your staff users will frequently be spending their turns using more powerful staffs rather than healing.

And I'm going to be that shameless self promoter by bringing up that healing items are also critically necessary in my hack as they're virtually the only way to heal. So careful management of them is extremely important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 Can you point to an alternative purpose of limiting fish, or divine pulse, or the number of things you can do a month?

I don't have the time/energy/brainpower to respond to most of this, but I do want to touch on your question here. As I said before, I think that another purpose to limiting fishing is to protect the player from themself by making extremely degenerate and un-fun ways of playing impossible. If fishing were infinite then someone somewhere would fish themselves all the way up to maximum professor rank in chapter 1. If Divine Pulse were infinite then some people would start using it literally every time they missed an attack. Keeping it limited conveys to the player that they aren't supposed to be using it whenever they have anything even slightly bad happen, but only to recover from serious errors or to fundamentally change strategies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Also in Radiant Dawn, but that's moreso because healing items are busted in that one.

The Concoction has stayed around as an intermediary between the fairly useless Vulnerary and rare and very powerful Elixir. There was a nugget of good in RD's implementation.

RD's parts rotation limiting the number of healers you have at any time, deny you one entirely during a couple Part 2 scuffles, made the buff to healing items justifiable. If still overdone with the 8 use Vulneraries, and 6 use 40 HP Concoction. (Although I disapprove of Fates nerfing Concoctions to 2 uses despite Awakening already dropping the HP replenished to 20, and the similar Elixir nerf. Quick Salve was a neat skill idea for encouraging more healing item usage ...but practically never worthwhile given competition due to a precious limited 5 skill slots.) 

The potency and uses of healing items did become another nail in the coffin of RD's magic units. Offensively, they're very lacking, and the strange decision to have staffs as weak counterattack-only weapons adds to the weakness of the healing side of magic units already established by the healing items.

Alchemist/Apothecary/Chemist/Salve-Maker class in FE when? These are not uncommon in some RPGs, and tend if you know the good recipes to break the game.

 

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Healing items are also pretty useful in Thracia since all healing items are elixirs and they're rather plentiful, coupled with the fact that your staff users will frequently be spending their turns using more powerful staffs rather than healing.

Don't forget Fatigue, healers get exhausted fast. And if you fail to recruit Safy or Nanna gets killed (neither is scarily that difficult actually) then you'll be down to one unpromoted staffbot until Tina or Linoan. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Alchemist/Apothecary/Chemist/Salve-Maker class in FE when? These are not uncommon in some RPGs, and tend if you know the good recipes to break the game.

If I recall from the demo, Triangle Strategy will feature a class like that. She lacked healing magic, but was able to use multiple items in one turn, and to use healing items on allies at range. Not sure whether other units will share her class, or whether they'll gain more skills in the main release.

22 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I don't have the time/energy/brainpower to respond to most of this, but I do want to touch on your question here. As I said before, I think that another purpose to limiting fishing is to protect the player from themself by making extremely degenerate and un-fun ways of playing impossible. If fishing were infinite then someone somewhere would fish themselves all the way up to maximum professor rank in chapter 1. If Divine Pulse were infinite then some people would start using it literally every time they missed an attack. Keeping it limited conveys to the player that they aren't supposed to be using it whenever they have anything even slightly bad happen, but only to recover from serious errors or to fundamentally change strategies.

Allowing the player to buy unlimited bait could have worked... if the developers had balanced the game's "gold economy" better. Basically, buying enough bait to grind one's way to maximum rank should be prohibitively expensive - if not impossible, doing so would simply bankrupt the player. As it stands, the gold economy breaks after just a few chapters in, when you're gaining enough gold from all sides (monthly pay, quests, Bullions, Aux battles, weekly chores) that you can essentially buy whatever you want. Tightening this up, I think, would've made for better design (i.e. making resource management matter).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, lenticular said:

As I said before, I think that another purpose to limiting fishing is to protect the player from themself by making extremely degenerate and un-fun ways of playing impossible.

But... if that's the case... they failed. They set it magnitudes too high, by the admission of basically everyone in this thread, even the people trying to defend it. Their "safety net" for the player is still an astronomically absurd time sink. Nobody is contesting that spending four hours of a playthrough fishing is madness, the only thing we're arguing about is whose fault it is, the devs for making it or the player for doing it. So by your own hypothesis, the devs categorically failed.

Edited by Alastor15243

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Doesn't the Conquest campaign end with Corrin and the royals speculating as to exactly what corrupted Takumi and Garon? Because that is in my book implying that the answer to that question lies elsewhere. Also of note, Birthright ends with Garon stating that at some point he changed and he lost his old self. This is more subtle than Conquest, but it still hints that someone - or something - else is behind the scenes. What's more, I would say the big reason why Revelation is encouraged to be played last is because its story spoils details of both Birthright and Conquest; with a name like "Revelation", that's to be expected.

True, but it’s not like a sequel in the sense that there playing Birthright or Revelation  is going to continue directly off from the ending of Conquest. It’s more like a third version akin to how Platinum is to Diamond and Pearl, with the latter have some foreshadows to Platinum despite not being a sequel. And also in Three Houses there are moments where characters allude to the other routes, Edelgard’s final words in Silver Snow and Verdant Wind wishes she and Byleth could have been allies as a reference to Crismson Flower, Seteth proposes that Dimitri’s message was a wish that Byleth guided him, a reference to Azure Moon, and on Azure Moon Chaptrer 19, Claude ponders briefly what would happen Byleth taught the Golden Deer should Byleth speak to him, a reference to Verdant Wind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm confused - the game gives you too much fish, because you can buy a lot of bait each month. But the game also makes it too hard to get fish, relative to vegetables and non-fish meat. If this is what you're saying, it seems to be in contradiction. Like sure, it's "easy" to get fruits and vegetables, but you're held to a single set of them per week (via the greenhouse). Fish is slightly more out of your way, but also has a much taller ceiling. As for landmeats, I think the only regular way to get them is through certain Aux battles - if anything, that's more restrictive than either of the other two. These resources come in different ways, sure, but I don't see a need for any among them to be made "stronger" or "weaker" than the others.

I was more trying to suggest that it's profoundly unlikely that the grind was deliberately taken into account when balancing it with the other foodstuff types. I don't think it's balanced at all, I was more asking for the claim of balance to be elaborated on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Healing items become largely worthless outside of the early games. If you're playing well then your healers should be enough. You also don't get exp for using items while healers do for healing. And just in general the cost of giving up a combat unit's turn to heal themselves when they could use that turn to kill an enemy and eliminate a threat just generally isn't worth it. Trading also means you only need to have one healing item in your army, or access to the convoy in order to make use of it. There also isn't a massive amount of diminishing returns in carrying multiple weapons, especially if  unit has dual  weapon types. Generally speaking you want to at least have a powerful weapon, an accurate weapon, a 1-2 range weapon and a cheap disposable weapon (that'll usually overlap with the accurate weapon). That covers the main niches, but then you might also want to carry a weapon with effective damage and a high crit weapon too. Will you use every single one of these weapons every map? No, probably not, but the options they give you grants more versatility. You don't want to go into a battle wishing you had given a unit a hand axe or a silver sword when you suddenly find yourself in a position in which they need one.

At the same time, I would consider it wise to account for instances where healers have already used their turns, and having to trade for someone else's healing item would force a less than ideal position for enemy phase (especially when you have instances like the Garreg Mach defense, where Byleth, and thus the convoy, starts on one end whereas the bulk of your player units start on the other end; in a case like that, I'd at least make sure my combat units who are gonna start on the end of the map opposite Byleth have a healing item!). Not having a weapon on hand that it turns out I needed really sucks, yes, but I'd consider it even worse when I'm stuck with no efficient way to heal my unit. This might have been worth it in easier FE games, as well as ones where the healing formula is generous, but in the context of 3H, and Maddening in particular, I'd consider walking around like you're Gilgamesh, toting nothing but weapons, to be a very easy way to bite yourself in the ass, especially post-timeskip when the game decides it's done holding back and wants to CRUSH you.

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I still carry Vulneraries into most battles in 3H, but honestly I hardly use them beyond the earlygame. Pretty much all your magic users should have at least some healing capabilities. On top of that, healing can come from other resources, like Blessed/Sacred weapons or the Healing Focus art. The flip side, of course, is "do I really need that fifth weapon"? To which the answer is "no, not usually... but then again, I didn't need a healing item either".

Speaking to other games, I would generally say those more enemy-phase-focused (i.e. FE7, Sacred Stones) are where Vulneraries are more valuable, since you often don't need to attack on player phase. Also in Radiant Dawn, but that's moreso because healing items are busted in that one.

At the same time, I'd consider opportunity cost; Healing Focus requires B Brawling and one of my three combat art slots, whereas blessed weapons only heal 10% (15% when forged) health every turn - not nearly enough to ensure survival when in a high-pressure situation (like, again, chapter 14, where you have to weather infinite Falcon Knights, with a Paladin as backup on Maddening, until you escort the NPC Swordmaster to the Onager) - and that ain't getting into the accessibility concerns they have, as there's only one of each, barring DLC. The sacred weapons require A rank (bar Caduceus), as well as have their healing dependent on the crest of the wielder. RE: magic users, that's true, but in general, with the healing formula in 3H being what it is, Physic alone won't be enough to get someone back into fighting form most of the time, particularly later on (at least, unless it's used by a Bishop, or someone with a healing staff, OR a Bishop with a healing staff). Of course, movement is a concern too, as most magic classes are stuck with low move.

Edited by Shadow Mir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

At the same time, I would consider it wise to account for instances where healers have already used their turns, and having to trade for someone else's healing item would force a less than ideal position for enemy phase (especially when you have instances like the Garreg Mach defense, where Byleth, and thus the convoy, starts on one end whereas the bulk of your player units start on the other end; in a case like that, I'd at least make sure my combat units who are gonna start on the end of the map opposite Byleth have a healing item!). Not having a weapon on hand that it turns out I needed really sucks, yes, but I'd consider it even worse when I'm stuck with no efficient way to heal my unit. This might have been worth it in easier FE games, as well as ones where the healing formula is generous, but in the context of 3H, and Maddening in particular, I'd consider walking around like you're Gilgamesh, toting nothing but weapons, to be a very easy way to bite yourself in the ass, especially post-timeskip when the game decides it's done holding back and wants to CRUSH you.

At the same time, I'd consider opportunity cost; Healing Focus requires B Brawling and one of my three combat art slots, whereas blessed weapons only heal 10% (15% when forged) health every turn - not nearly enough to ensure survival when in a high-pressure situation (like, again, chapter 14, where you have to weather infinite Falcon Knights, with a Paladin as backup on Maddening, until you escort the NPC Swordmaster to the Onager) - and that ain't getting into the accessibility concerns they have, as there's only one of each, barring DLC. The sacred weapons require A rank (bar Caduceus), as well as have their healing dependent on the crest of the wielder. RE: magic users, that's true, but in general, with the healing formula in 3H being what it is, Physic alone won't be enough to get someone back into fighting form most of the time, particularly later on (at least, unless it's used by a Bishop, or someone with a healing staff, OR a Bishop with a healing staff). Of course, movement is a concern too, as most magic classes are stuck with low move.

Even in maddening it's almost always better to use a unit's turn to kill something than to self heal. Safety in Fire Emblem comes more from minimizing threats than enduring a war of attrition. It's like we were saying with Linhardt's personal ability, it's one of the worst in the game and that's not just because you could use a healing item instead (which, being a mage, he is sure to have inventory space for), that's part of it,  but even if if healed a lot more it would still be rather useless because it gives up his turn (I think you even agreed with me on that point).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not going to dive into the debate about fishing and limits because I can’t tell what @Alastor15243 is trying to argue, but:

On 11/12/2021 at 3:27 PM, Alastor15243 said:

We're talking about in-universe. The story reason. Remember when you accused me of not even reading the dialogue earlier?

Well, there’s no dialogue, but the activities do provide stat boosts and can be seen as training, like Tea Parties, Choir Practice, Share a Meal, Sauna to name a few are all tied to the aforementioned stat boosts. So your definitely helping the army grow. And besides, all these activities happen on the weekend where everyone is taking a break. It’s deductible that people use these activities to relax, even in the midst of a war. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

Well, there’s no dialogue, but the activities do provide stat boosts and can be seen as training, like Tea Parties, Choir Practice, Share a Meal, Sauna to name a few are all tied to the aforementioned stat boosts. So your definitely helping the army grow. And besides, all these activities happen on the weekend where everyone is taking a break. It’s deductible that people use these activities to relax, even in the midst of a war. 

That's...

...Please try harder to read what people say before arguing about it. That isn't even remotely the subject.

...Whenever you do the monastery chores, like working at the stables, pulling weeds and patrolling the skies, you are rewarded with money and ore by the church. My question is why on earth this would still generate income after part 1 when the only people in a position to pay us for doing these chores... is us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That could've been easily solved by creating a new set of chores where you help out the surrounding towns. Having they pay for those jobs would've make good sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...