Dragon Laguz will be beast units

[Sunwoo]

They *should* be beast units because Tellius's dragons are not manakete. The lore surrounding them is completely different from the lore about manaketes. They don't seem to age at the same rate as manaketes. They don't need stones to transform. They're not worshipped as divine or have divine abilities, they're just exceptionally powerful compared to all other living things. Tellius's story is pretty self-contained, as is its shapeshifter lore. They didn't really borrow much from manakete lore, nor did the Awakening and Fates beast units borrow much from the laguz in terms of mechanics.

As for whether they'll actually be beast units, that's a 50-50 toss up. Does IS wanna be lazy or accurate? They did make Awakening+Fates beasts work the same as laguz in this game after all, even though in their actual games they really didn't have a lot of the same mechanics.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Sunwoo

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

Can there be a "N/A" or "not sure" option for both questions? And "both" option for both questions too? There is nothing stopping the developers from implementing some dragon Laguz as beasts and some as dragons.

While I lean towards wanting dragon Laguz to be beast units, there is not really any solid evidence that points to either option in my opinion, so I am not sure which direction the developers will go. The developers can also a implement some as dragons and some as beasts, so there is that option too.

Given there are only five dragon laguz to use, I really don't see them changing them up all that much. Anything's possible though. If you think they'd go the both route which of them do you expect would be breaths and which would be beasts?

Edited May 4, 2020 by Jotari

[TheNiddo]

I'm expecting them to be dragon units who's prf breaths all target def instead of res given that's what red (and I think black?) dragons hit in FE9/10. Still have adaptive damage naturally. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, TheNiddo said:

I'm expecting them to be dragon units who's prf breaths all target def instead of res given that's what red (and I think black?) dragons hit in FE9/10. Still have adaptive damage naturally. 

Well if that's the logic they're going with barely any dragons in the series ever hit res. Nasir is literally the only one likely to get into Heroes that does, as the only other option are Archanea Mage dragons of which there are no viable characters (except perhaps a Tiki alt but we're already swimming in them). Though quite a few games do have dragons ignoring both def and res altogether.

[Xenomata]

I'm not gonna say I know much about Tellius beasts, but it's not like they can't just pull off what they did with Julius. Cause he's not a Dragon, but he's still weak to dragon-slaying weaponry.

[Jotari]

14 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Lore-wise, beast laguz are weak to fire, bird laguz are weak to wind, and dragon laguz are weak to thunder/lightning. This wasn't carried over into Heroes. Lethe, Ranulf, Mordecai, and Caineghis were not given a weakness to fire tomes and the birds were not given a weakness to wind tomes. Heck, in some cases they color trump them! Fire tome users are red units and Mordecai is blue, giving him color advantage. Tibarn being red gives him color advantage over the wind tome users who are green.

And the dragon laguz don't have to be forced to hold dragonstones. Sothis doesn't hold one.

You know while we're at it I still think they should give the Tellius Mage's not yet in the game beast effective weapons to reflect this. Callil and Ilyana would be the most appropriate, Tormod should have a beast support weapon if anything, no real Green mage obvious since Soren was the only real wind magic dedicated  mage in Tellius.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Jotari

[eclipse]

My guess: Beast icon for weapon, adaptive damage as part of the kit.

[Icelerate]

I'm guessing they will be armoured beast because there are only two other candidates for armoured beast units left if we assume only lions can be armoured beast. We have plenty of dragons and armoured dragons in FEH so logic dictates that IS will make them armoured beast instead. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I'm not gonna say I know much about Tellius beasts, but it's not like they can't just pull off what they did with Julius. Cause he's not a Dragon, but he's still weak to dragon-slaying weaponry.

You know, I think that was a mistake. Allowing him to benefit from dragon buffs as a tome unit would have been really cool and interesting for dragon teams.

[Gregster101]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

You know while we're at it I still think they should give the Tellius Mage's not yet in the game beast effective weapons to reflect this. Callil and Ilyana would be the most appropriate, Tormod should have a beast support weapon if anything, no real Green mage obvious since Soren was the only real wind magic dedicated  mage in Tellius.

Bastian is also a dedicated wind mage

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Gregster101 said:

Bastian is also a dedicated wind mage

Indeed. Don't forget our glorious Count. 

 

Also, I want dragons to be breath units. It would give me breath units that I actually want to use.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Etheus

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Gregster101 said:

Bastian is also a dedicated wind mage

Egads you're right. How could I forget him! Callil with a Red tome effective against beasts, Ilyana with a blue tome and Bastian with a green one. That would be nice. They'd work as inheritable weapons too. No need to make them exclusive to those units, just introduce them on those units since Tellius lore supports it. Of course if they do that it would also more require dragon laguz to be beasts otherwise the blue tome wouldn't make much sense (and yeah, all tomes would be effective against all beasts is already muddling the lore a bit, but it's still better than not referencing the weaknesses at all). If you want to make anti beasts weapons (beast killer knife also should get in there, probably on Heather even though it doesn't fit her character all that much, Volke needs to get Baselard, although Young Sothe would be another alternative) you need to make beast teams viable to justify the counter.

[SSbardock84]

Breath units. While yes, all of the laguz have been put into the beast category, I just don't see why the dragon laguz would. I mean, the beast units aren't only laguz even. Since breath units are only dragons and they're dragons, that also use breath attacks, they'll be breath units.

[Michelaar]

On 5/3/2020 at 4:31 PM, Othin said:

Heroes can override lore when its designers want to, but in this case, those designers most likely want to find a way to fill out the missing three colors of armored beasts over time, ideally with characters people will actually get excited about, which they could do a lot more easily with dragon laguz than with a pile of lions.

I doubt they actually care about making each unit get the mechanic of their particular game, considering Beast units from Awakening and Fates function exactly the same as beast units from Tellius, when their gameplay is fundamentally different in their respective games of origin. 

[SSbardock84]

17 hours ago, Jotari said:

Given there are only five dragon laguz to use

So you think! There's a chance we may get Rajaion one day. Though that's a long ways off if it does happen given we have zero dragon laguz currently.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, SSbardock84 said:

So you think! There's a chance we may get Rajaion one day. Though that's a long ways off if it does happen given we have zero dragon laguz currently.

Take another look at the OP.

[XRay]

On 5/3/2020 at 6:05 PM, Jotari said:

Given there are only five dragon laguz to use, I really don't see them changing them up all that much. Anything's possible though. If you think they'd go the both route which of them do you expect would be breaths and which would be beasts?

I have not played Tellius, but if they were to implement dragon Laguz as either beasts or dragons, I assume the older and stronger ones will be dragons to make them easier to use, although you can also make the argument that they should be beasts because beasts get additional transformation effects on top of their regular Weapon effects.

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, XRay said:

I have not played Tellius, but if they were to implement dragon Laguz as either beasts or dragons, I assume the older and stronger ones will be dragons to make them easier to use, although you can also make the argument that they should be beasts because beasts get additional transformation effects on top of their regular Weapon effects.

I'd argue that we should want beasts to be easier to use, hence why they should all be beasts.

[Ice Dragon]

I see no reason why they shouldn't be added as beasts.

Gameplay-wise, there is currently way too little variety in beast units, and adding more would help a lot in helping existing beast units be more usable. It also gives a lot more options for armored beasts since otherwise we'd only have Caineghis and Giffca, and the fact that armored beasts get Distant Counter as their transform effect fits dragon Laguz more than it fits the lions.

Lore-wise, dragon Laguz share more in common with the other Laguz than they share with the dragons of other continents.

[Othin]

28 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I see no reason why they shouldn't be added as beasts.

Gameplay-wise, there is currently way too little variety in beast units, and adding more would help a lot in helping existing beast units be more usable. It also gives a lot more options for armored beasts since otherwise we'd only have Caineghis and Giffca, and the fact that armored beasts get Distant Counter as their transform effect fits dragon Laguz more than it fits the lions.

Lore-wise, dragon Laguz share more in common with the other Laguz than they share with the dragons of other continents.

Also Skrimir. But still, that's not even four.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Also Skrimir. But still, that's not even four.

Right. That guy. And yeah. Still not enough for 1 of each color.

[Jotari]

On 5/7/2020 at 2:54 AM, Ice Dragon said:

Right. That guy. And yeah. Still not enough for 1 of each color.

Well there's exactly 1 for each colour if we include Soan too, who seems more than possible with Altina in. But still, we would like more than one armoured unit per colour.

On 5/4/2020 at 1:38 AM, Silent Mercenary said:

I'm on the fence on how they'll implement them, but I think with the way they have so far where they've let the door open for move-type to determine their type (infantry is mid-size beasts: wolves/tigers, cavalry is lighter ones: kitsune/taguel/cats, armored is heaviest: lions, and flying is bird laguz), they'll put dragons with the other breaths, to leave the possibility of inheritable beast weapons around. Whelp/Fledgling and Yearling/Hatchling can all fit dragon laguz, but the last-tier Fangs and Claws/Beaks don't fit the Dragon Laguz fighting style. The big question is Rafiel, but it'd be best to just assume he's a flying beast that mostly healed and give him some sort of occasional penalty.

I think FE3H's monsters will fill beast spots, specially the armored beast spot since armor is an important aspect of them, they can counter at range, and it'd be 4 male lions otherwise. I've been of the idea Miklan would be implemented as an Armored Beast GHB. Indech, Macuil and Maurice can also be in some spots, and could serve as Mythics if necessary (although Soan's almost assured at some point).

  Reveal hidden contents

There's also good Fallen Heroes banner material like Hegemon Husk Edelgard, Giant Demonic Beast Dedue, and many other possibilities if they go further into what ifs, like Wandering Beast Marianne.

Also, I want them to add Colorless Fist weapons already, and make occasional alt banners with untransformed laguz (specially to fill the cavalry/flying fist spots). Let Reyson punch Oliver again in FEH!

Thinking on other potential beast units, Anthony from Fates would serve as a decent grand hero battle if they want to do a Vallite themed banner with Arete and Sumaragi etc. I would have said the Demon King too until about a week ago but unfortunately they decided to go with tome for that one.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jotari

[Silent Mercenary]

On 5/7/2020 at 7:15 AM, Jotari said:

Thinking on other potential beast units, Anthony from Fates would serve as a decent grand hero battle if they want to do a Vallite themed banner with Arete and Sumaragi etc. I would have said the Demon King too until about a week ago but unfortunately they decided to go with tome for that one.

I forgot Anthony, but I'd prefer him under the Colorless Fist weapon type that I still want them to add. Also, I have always had in mind that they'll save Arete until they feel like adding singing cavalry for further powercreep. Hopefully, they don't add sing/dance to cavalry, but if they do, Arete or a strategist Azura alt would be the most fitting introductions.

There is a possibility once the story gets to Jotun(heim), that some of the giants are interpreted as beasts or accompanied by them. That would add more beasts if the next FE doesn't before then.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Silent Mercenary said:

I forgot Anthony, but I'd prefer him under the Colorless Fist weapon type that I still want them to add. Also, I have always had in mind that they'll save Arete until they feel like adding singing cavalry for further powercreep. Hopefully, they don't add sing/dance to cavalry, but if they do, Arete or a strategist Azura alt would be the most fitting introductions.

There is a possibility once the story gets to Jotun(heim), that some of the giants are interpreted as beasts or accompanied by them. That would add more beasts if the next FE doesn't before then.

Hmm. If Anthony were to get in (and that's a big if considering how minor he is) I couldn't see him not being a beast unit given that they wouldn't have him running around as a faceless so there's a definite transformation element on hand there. Unless they start throwing transformations on non beast units. Gauntlets will probably have to wait until another game releases for a hefty supply of likely users. The pool for Three Houses is just too small and previous characters in the series don't offer a tonne of potential (Fomortiis again was one of the few options but alas they decided tomes on that). You said the untransformed laguz earlier but even that just circles back to there really not being a massive amount of numbers to make up a weapon category. Though if guantlets are only colourless melee weapons then there's not so much need to have as many of them as there would for four different colours of beast units.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jotari

[Silent Mercenary]

Revisiting this thread now that Groom Rafiel is an infantry beast with the same transformation effect as the other infantry beasts. I no longer think they have intentions of releasing inheritable beast weapons, which opens up the possibility of dragons as armored beasts with dragon weakness inherent to their personal and only viable weapon (unless you want to weaken them with the basic 9 might Adult weapon).