Jump to content
Mekkah

Site Updates

Recommended Posts

Hey, long-time user and fan of the Serenes Forest website here. I use the website almost every day to look up data, artwork and other things on Fire Emblem and I promote it to everyone at every opportunity. Everything I say in this post is an attempt at constructive criticism and an expression of my wish for the site to be as good as it could possibly be - none of it is meant to be a slight at the website or anyone maintaining it.

With that out of the way, there are a lot of pages that could really use an update, especially the Three Houses page. Here are some things that are missing that are present for other games:

- A list of chapters (of every route)

- A list of paralogues and their requirements for obtaining them

- Target ranges of Gambits (that page is still listed as a WIP)

- Calculations page for things like hit rate and damage output

- Support point requirements and the effects of activities and battle options on them

- White magic ranges

There are also several minor outdated things/mistakes on the site, such as the fact that Bowbreaker is listed as obtainable through hitting B Reason when it's gotten through Mastering Warlock, or the fact that Jeritza is listed as a DLC character when he's obtained through a patch update.

That's just Three Houses, but there are other things that just kinda stand out. Pages for many of the older Japan-only games use very outdated names for the characters even though Heroes and other sources have given us official ones. For example, FE3 B1 calls the fighters Barts, Saji and Maji, and the first characters in Gaiden according to SF are called Arum, Ruka, Grey and Robin. It's not that it's impossible to decipher what these names mean, it just gives the website a very dated look.

I understand if Vincent and other content managers I'm not aware of are very busy or have other reasons not to work on these things. But if that is the case, is there a possibility of giving the rights to edit the site to motivated people who have some free time to help out? I'm willing to help gather volunteers through my platform on YouTube if there's no one to be found on the forums here. 

Again, please understand this is not a shot at anyone who is in charge of these things, I'm just trying to see if this website can be as up to date as it once was. It is in a lot of ways better than its alternatives since the data is in English and neatly sorted into categories, but the things named above hold it back from what it could be.

Edited by Mekkah
more typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I generally second this (with a definite emphasis on the fact that I love this site and consider it the definitive Fire Emblem resource which I recommend to friends, and that I have a hell of a lot of respect for the work Vincent and others have put in). I'd also be happy to pitch in and help.

 

Some other things I'd like to see for Three Houses, since it's the game on my mind:

-The Skill levels -> Progression page has a table listing the the exp requirement for the next level, but it's missing A+/S/S+. I'd also add a column which includes the total exp required for each level.

-Also on this page, there are some spaces listed with "?" in the experience gain table, which should be filled in. The effects of Maddening difficulty on weekly instruction should also be noted.

-Somewhere in the Skill levels section, the initial goals for each character should be documented (they're quite important because that's what the characters train if you recruit them after Chapter 2). And I'd clarify that budding talents are unlocked by 12 "instruct" actions or 6 faculty training sessions in Byleth's case.

-"Stat boosts from class changing" shouldn't be buried away in a sub-page IMO, it should be linked in the main page under Classes. EDIT: This one was already done, whoops!

-The class change page should include the formula for certification rate, now that this is known.

-The simple list of classes in the class introductions page should IMO include the rank requirements to get certify for it, as that's one of the most important things to know about a class at a glance. Either replace the proficiency information (which is far less important) with this, or add it to the table.

-I'd like to see availability/location added to the list of battalions. This page should also mention that battalion endurance depletes at 1 endurance per 2 damage taken.

-And finally, though I know it's fair bit of work, I'd love to see an Item Locations page similar to the one found for various previous games.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thirded. Serenes Forest is epic and my fave FE forums place but it needs some updating, specially on the 3H department.

Edited by This boi uses Nino

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta agree on this too. Everytime you go to SF for one of your videos or when with Mangs, I'm always wondering if what you find is up to date.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fourthed (or is it forthed?)

Maybe you could crowd source it here, if the admins/editors are too busy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mekkah said:

or the fact that Jeritza is listed as a DLC character when he's obtained through a patch update.

A patch that players had to download, thus making him downloadable content and means that the current listing is technically correct.

Edited by NinjaMonkey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to throw in my support for this as well! One thing in particular I've noticed that could be added in (though it'd be a huge undertaking and might have less practical value than the addition of gameplay mechanics information) is the game script for Three Houses. This would probably be need to be done by a somewhat large group of volunteers, due to the sheer volume of text in this game.

Anyway, mostly just wanted to add a reply here to increase visibility and show support.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we please change "Ichival" to "Yewfelle" while we're at it? I know that FE4/FE5 aren't the most popular games so people aren't checking their entries as often, but it bothers me how out of date their translations are.

Oh and 8th'd on the subject of Three Heroes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding to the train here with my love for the website and that I am willing to help out starting in a few weeks. I have some viewable information I've compiled in tables as well as spreadsheets I've downloaded from contributors across the web that would be nice to include or link in the main page with proper sourcing. With some fixing and placing into coding (html), some of the details Mekkah asked for can be added.

Considering it's related to the request for 3H info, I'll mention I also posted a support points thread some months ago to ask for help in compiling all the supports points data with the intent of getting tables on the main site eventually. If anyone with the capacity to mod the game (with tools like these, specifically the support viewer) has some free hours of time coming up in a few weeks, and would like to volunteer for some testing, tell me to coordinate and get the support part down that way. Accurate info on support points is very important for 3H since an entire path, a sacred weapon and some paralogues are locked behind them, but to my knowledge, the complete info is missing from the searchable internet.

Also Mekkah, although some of the suggestions in the page could make up a pitfalls video worth of examples, the contributors of the Neoseeker pages worked very hard and have a lot of good info you are asking for, such as chapter and paralogue info, and they have a lot of images including the calendar months. It's overall a good resource for chapter-by-chapter summaries, although it may get too spoilery at times.

SF is particularly good because it offers most of the information objectively and orderly, with subjectivity mostly left to quick remarks and news, and in those cases, it's still done respectfully. All of the FE resources have their pros and cons, but I think SF stands above particularly because of the effort and care of the people managing and contributing to it. I reply to this thread to echo the support and desire for SF to continue to be a main FE resource.

I understand the content managers are all very likely busy, but hopefully, more people can all add some part in getting the website up to date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Guys thanks for bringing this to our attention

We'll begin getting to work on finishing up the missing content here shortly starting next week, we just need to take care of a few small things first before we can start

@Mekkah Thanks for bringing this up

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Azure loves his Half Elves said:

Yeah, I think the FEH page needs a good amount of updates, too.

Considering the nature of Heroes, we do not have anyone with the time or resources to dedicate themselves to the upkeep of data that's being constantly added to the game that other sites (such as Gamepress, Gamepedia, etc.) have. So if you do need up-to-date Heroes info, you can visit one of the many other places such as the two I mentioned. But you probably knew that already. I will talk with Vincent about removing certain data that requires constant editing/updating and perhaps just turning the page into a more general overview type of thing, unless he is willing to find people he knows and trusts who will keep the pages relevant and up to date.

As for the Three Houses information, I haven't heard anything from Vincent regarding it yet but then again it's only been a day. It ultimately depends on his schedule since I'm sure he is more than capable of doing this stuff himself, and/or whether or not he is willing to give more people access to the main site.

I would say "next week," as @Captain Karnage stated, is a bit ambitious; I don't want us making promises only to leave people hanging. But for sure, knowing Vincent, the gears will start moving sooner than later if he has time to spare. All I can really say is thanks for being patient and I hope you don't mind waiting a bit longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there! I appreciate your and everyone else's concerns.

Currently, most of the content that's not on the wiki is managed/written solely by myself and unfortunately I don't have as much time as I used to (although thanks to the pandemic, I have the time but not the motivation).

Also, I don't currently have Three Houses (the game) on me, so there's only so much I can do.

If anybody wants to help out, I'd more than appreciate it. Please reply to me here or via PM and I'll try and sort something out soon. You can help out in any capacity that you're comfortable with.

Oh, if possible, let me know if you have experience with HTML and/or WordPress (not required, but would be useful).

@Captain Karnage Sorry for the wait, I'll get back to you when I have a bit more time ^^

Things I definitely need help with:

Anything Three Houses gameplay-related (because I don't have the game). I can create a skeleton page for the paralogues, but my notes are a mess and I might not have all the details.

(I am able to data-mine the game, but it's not as easy as previous games because of Koei Tecmo. I think everything I was able to data-mine is already on the website.)

Updating the names for the Japanese-only games, as there are LOTs of pages to go through. I can probably do some of these myself, but it'll be waaay faster with help!

Honestly, I probably need help looking up and fixing all the mistakes and errors that have been reported as well. A lot of the games, I'm just plain rusty with now.

Things I can work on in the near term:

The skill suggestions info, I was supposed to transfer to the Class-Change page. There would be a link to it from the Class Introduction page, once it was finished.

Adding the Ashen Wolves (and missing NPCs) to the Character Introductions page.

Adding a page for Personal Abilities.

Probably add the world map.

Recently fixed:

Bowbreaker (and Tomebreaker) requirements in the Abilities page. I guess there's no way to learn Fistbreaker?

Probably not gonna happen:

As Raven mentioned, it would likely be too much effort to update the FE Heroes game page. Plus there are Heroes-focused resource sites that make it redundant. Not quite sure what to do with it right now. Perhaps transforming it into a more general page would be for the best.

Edited by VincentASM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll mention other things in PM, but on Heroes, I think it might be nice to bring the Localization Pages in the style of this to a forefront. It might be good to setup the table with every name not localized outside of a CYL setting, and then leave spaces to fill out around monthly as new heroes from the first 6 games and New Mystery get added or referenced. That way when the pages of those games get updated, there's an easy reference, and it's also info many people are interested in seeing.

Something that could speed up the updating is putting the info already presented on news articles of new trailers into a table format. If the main info of Name, Type, Voice and Artist is placed on a row, it can then be copy/pasted into the Characters page to update it. The weapon and skill pages may be better left linking to the wiki in the way the Berwick Saga ones are. If those aren't updated yet, the readers can just go to the approved sources at the top to check the new stuff.

Another suggestion is having a thread where the staff can ask for help on putting concepts/explanations into words, and repliers can chime in and offer to write the paragraphs that would be placed on the website. An example would be: a Grand Conquests page would need to be made, but the staff doesn't have time to write it, is behind on the updates and/or isn't aware of some intricacies. A request for someone to write the Grand Conquests page is placed on that thread, someone can then reply to offer to make it whole or a part of it, then when ready, they post it, it's revised/edited by the community and staff, and then gets added to its own page. During that process, there could also be some image requests with specifics of what the staff members want in the page (ex: the layouts of the starting menu, rankings, selection screen and a battle). Overall, it'd be something to take part of the load off from the content managers, and it'd involve the forum community directly and in one-time commitments. Guidelines would be there, and there could be a vetting process to assure certain quality, which could be an initial paragraph. I mention this since it might be better to reject before they've already written it all, or at least, if the problem is unfamiliarity/issues with English, also ask for someone to help them translate or fix it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We officially have some new team members now! @Captain Karnage, @Blaze The Great and (later in June) @Silent Mercenary

Captain Karnage has offered to mainly help with the Three Houses support conversations, plus the main story.

Blaze the Great will also be working on the Three Houses supports. So you may want to co-ordinate between yourselves, so you don't get confused ^^

(I also replied to the Heroes suggestion via PM, but for the time being, we'll be skipping it.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An update or separate page on the RNG hitrates for fates/echoes would be great - most people incorrectly think it's a weighted average (3A+b)/4 (which is very close, but still incorrect).

 

Current hitrate page for serenesforest (only includes 2RN): https://serenesforest.net/general/true-hit/

At the moment, I made a google spreadsheet for the speedrunning community that lists every calculated hitrate for both 2RN and fates/echoes hybrid RN (I included a tab with my sources and the user who reverse-engineered the formula). Something like this wouldn't be needed if Sf was updated.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ws6qbUqIlmc-2wDBPWvXEk7uxdypkJObyR4bPsYDLIg/

tl;dr, fates/echoes RNG is 1RN at/below 50%, and is this piece of garbage  with 1RN above 50%:

image.png.c41cffbf9760103a5747828695a9861e.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kirbymastah said:

tl;dr, fates/echoes RNG is 1RN at/below 50%, and is this piece of garbage  with 1RN above 50%:

image.png.c41cffbf9760103a5747828695a9861e.png

where X is the displayed hitrate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

where X is the displayed hitrate?

where X is the random number generated. The result is compared to the displayed hitrate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kirbymastah said:

where X is the random number generated. The result is compared to the displayed hitrate.

I see... so it's still higher than what it displays but not as much as 2RN makes it, that probably explains why it feels like in those games I've missed more 70 and 80 percenters than ever (aside from the factthat CQ is just harder)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So again, disclaimer, this is all in good faith, not a dig at any of the involved staff members, but this topic was posted two months ago. Vincent kindly responded by appointing 3 new staff members to help address the issues, but I had a look around the site and nothing appears to be changed. I can see Vincent fixed the Bowbreaker problem himself, but other than that I haven't seen any updates.

For example, someone posted an error in Balthus's magical learnset in February, and this hasn't been corrected since. And this isn't a common error: the FEwiki and fe3h.com don't have this error.

https://serenesforest.net/three-houses/characters/learned-spells/

https://fe3h.com/characters/balthus#learned-magic

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Balthus#Learnt_Magic

So please, SF staff, whether you need to encourage existing staff or appoint more members, if you want the site to be correct and up to date, someone somewhere has to put in more effort. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...