Jump to content
Diovani Bressan

Remixed Legendary Heroes: New Skills Speculation!

Recommended Posts

They really need to do some HEAVY upgrading to Lyn. It's painful how much her Legendary variant has fallen, if it ever wasn't fallen to begin with. I've liked a lot of the suggestions here. Some form of Close Counter, getting a stat increase of 5 or 6 to all stats on BOTH player phase and enemy phase if 2/3 spaces away from an ally unit, and treating her as a 185 BST unit would be great. I'm just worried it's too much to hope for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

treating her as a 185 BST unit would be great

Hmm... If Fjorm and Ike didnt get that, Lyn will not too.

I am looking forward for her remix too... To know what fodder I will get from her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Roflolxp54 said:

It's worth noting that in the Feh Channel, Feh states that "some of them will be able to learn additional skills". While the immediate meaning would be that not every outdated Legendary Hero would be updated at once since Ike and Fjorm were the only ones updated, it could also imply that IS may not update certain Legendary Heroes at all or that IS could potentially give a unit more new skills than the amount Ike or Fjorm got.

Feh said:

Not only are they appearing in a new type of summoning event, but I hear some of them will be able to learn additional skills. To start things off, Legendary Heroes Ike and Fjorm will be learning additional skills.

It's pretty clear from the context that the "some of them will be able to learn additional skills" refers to exactly what Ike and Fjorm got. While it's certainly possible other units might get more skills, I don't see anything that implies for or against the possibility that they'd do so. It sounded to me like simply "we're going to start doing this, and here's the first batch".

As for which units will be getting new skills, I also don't think there's any reason to believe that they'd choose not update any of the older Legendary Heroes. To me, it sounds like the "some" specifically refers to "old" Legendary Heroes, not "we're going to arbitrarily pick and choose a few of them and the rest will never get one". I would certainly expect every Legendary Hero through Azura to eventually get a Remix, as the switch from stat effects to Pair Up marked a pretty big turning point in Legendary Heroes, both in terms of Pair Up's Duel effect making units viable for Arena scoring as well as a sudden spike in the strength of Legendary Heroes' exclusive skills and default skill sets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Kaden said:

Fortress Res 4 or Fortress Def 4 do not exist, but they would probably pale in comparison to Fortress Def/Res 3. 

I highly doubt this. After Fortress Def/Res 3 has been out for so long, why would they release Fortress Def 4/Fortress Res 4 only for them to be worse? Most likely they would compare to Fortress Def/Res 3 the same way the current ones compare to Fortress Def/Res 2 (the seals, for example); The dual version is better for mixed tanks, the single versions are better for focused tanks. I imagine these theoretical tier 4 skills being something like +8 Def or Res, -2 atk.

4 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

They really need to do some HEAVY upgrading to Lyn. It's painful how much her Legendary variant has fallen, if it ever wasn't fallen to begin with. I've liked a lot of the suggestions here. Some form of Close Counter, getting a stat increase of 5 or 6 to all stats on BOTH player phase and enemy phase if 2/3 spaces away from an ally unit, and treating her as a 185 BST unit would be great. I'm just worried it's too much to hope for.

Yeah, Lyn was pretty much dead on arrival. Laws of Sacae as it is is just extremely dumb on a unit who is otherwise player phase focused.

While having CC is better than not, I don't think that would be very helpful for her. Even with +5 stat boosts her defensive stats just aren't good, and without a Mystic Boost effect she wouldn't even be able to use her maybe-passable Res against dragons. I'd rather it just drop any EP-focused effects and hyper-focus on offense.

Edited by Florete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Florete said:

I highly doubt this. After Fortress Def/Res 3 has been out for so long, why would they release Fortress Def 4/Fortress Res 4 only for them to be worse? Most likely they would compare to Fortress Def/Res 3 the same way the current ones compare to Fortress Def/Res 2 (the seals, for example); The dual version is better for mixed tanks, the single versions are better for focused tanks. I imagine these theoretical tier 4 skills being something like +8 Def or Res, -2 atk.

Fortress skills are pretty bad as combat skills though. Not only do they decrease your Atk, they also visibly increase your Def/Res, making the unit more susceptible to being hit by Chills. Bracing Stance can do what Fortress Def/Res can do without those weaknesses, as well as having Guard on top. In my opinion, Fortress skills are better utilized as support skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Fortress skills are pretty bad as combat skills though. Not only do they decrease your Atk, they also visibly increase your Def/Res, making the unit more susceptible to being hit by Chills. Bracing Stance can do what Fortress Def/Res can do without those weaknesses, as well as having Guard on top. In my opinion, Fortress skills are better utilized as support skills.

When I said "tanks" I just meant any unit who wants the stat as high as possible. I know there are better skills for actual combat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Florete said:

Yeah, Lyn was pretty much dead on arrival. Laws of Sacae as it is is just extremely dumb on a unit who is otherwise player phase focused.

Conversely, Desperation is just extremely dumb on a unit that is otherwise enemy-phase focused because that's what Legendary Lyn was. Both of Lyn's exclusive skills, Swift Mulagir and Laws of Sacae are enemy-phase skills.

I believe Lyn was the first ranged Spd tank. The problem was that Spd tanking wasn't really a necessary role back then and when that role started gaining relevance, new units showed up that did the job better, like Norne, Midori, and now Shinon and Henriette; new skills showed up that rendered Laws of Sacae obsolete, namely Distant Def 4; and new skills showed up that allowed melee units to make up for the loss of the passive A slot to Distant Counter, namely the Evasion skills.

Lyn is still a decent Spd tank in PvE content, but with the growing prevalence of guaranteed follow-ups and the ever-present Spd creep, she isn't able to keep up in PvP content.

Laws of Sacae is now extremely underwhelming as a skill, as it is effectively just an enemy-phase Fury 4 with no recoil, giving her none of the benefits of more powerful enemy-phase passive A skills, like Dull Ranged on Distant Def 4 or Guard on the Stance skills, while also not providing her enough defenses to keep up with the over-the-top offence creep of the past year.

 

If they really want to make Lyn viable in her original role, they don't need to give her a Duel skill for 185 total stats. They pretty much have to actually give her 185 total stats.

Shinon with his base kit has 215 points of stats excluding his weapon's Mt, conditional only on having no adjacent allies.

Legendary Claude with just his weapon has 186 points of stats excluding his weapon's Mt, conditional only on having more than 25% HP. With the rest of his base kit (and only one stack of Catch), he has 208 points of stats plus 80% damage reduction on the first hit per round of combat on player phase plus Null Follow-Up plus Glare. Sure, he's not a ranged tank, but he's still the bulkiest bow user in the game on player phase (in terms of actually soaking up damage and not just avoiding getting hit).

Lyn with her entire base kit has only 180, conditional on being on enemy phase, on having more allies than enemies within 2 squares, and on having at least 2 allies within 2 squares. With Lull Atk/Spd to match Shinon, she'd have 189 points.

Heck, even Norne with a Spd refine on her default weapon and no passive skills at all still has 184 points of stats excluding her weapon's Mt (which is also 2 lower than Lyn's). Again, with Lull Atk/Spd, she'd have 193 points.

In order to match Shinon, who is the current cream of the crop for ranged Spd tanks, she needs to make up not only a difference of 26 points of stats, which is already utterly insane on its own, but also the huge number of hoops her skills need to activate. That's basically saying Laws of Sacae needs to grant a total of something like +10/10/11/11 with a more lenient condition in order for her to remain competitive.

With just how badly she's outmatched by Shinon and Claude, I think it would at least be fair to have Laws of Sacae II improved to this:

If unit is within 2 spaces of an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 to unit during combat, reduces damage from area-of-effect Specials by 80% (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials), reduces damage from foe's first attack by 80%, neutralizes effects that guarantee foe's follow-up attacks, and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.

Which, despite all of the effects, still makes her worse than Claude. The stat boost only matches the stat boost from Failnaught. The percentage damage reduction only matches the damage reduction from Fallen Star. Great Flame's go-fuck-yourself levels of follow-up prevention is comparable to Failnaught's Null Follow-Up. Swift Mulagir's Atk, Spd, and Res boost is inferior to Atk/Spd Catch 4's Atk and Spd boost, losing by 1 total point. And Lyn still loses in base stats by 15 points, though that can be reduced to only 10 points due to Dragonflowers. And Fallen Star still inflicts Gravity. And Failnaught still has the Slaying effect.

I guess to not make Lyn a complete Claude clone, we could do this instead:

If unit is within 2 spaces of an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 to unit during combat, inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack, reduces damage from area-of-effect Specials by 80% (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials), reduces damage from foe's first attack by 80%, neutralizes effects that guarantee foe's follow-up attacks, and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.

Or because I want to:

If unit is within 2 spaces of an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+5 to unit during combat, inflicts Special cooldown charge -1 on foe per attack, reduces damage from area-of-effect Specials by 80% (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials), reduces damage from foe's first attack by 80%, neutralizes effects that guarantee foe's follow-up attacks, and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.

If a foe uses bow, dagger, magic, or staff and initiates combat against an ally within 2 spaces of unit, triggers 【Savior】 on unit.

Edited by Ice Dragon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Hmm... If Fjorm and Ike didnt get that, Lyn will not too.

The main difference here is that Fjorm and Ike do not have Prf A-skills; they have Prf special skills in Ice Mirror and Radiant Aether respectively, so they don't conflict with B Duel Infantry and R Duel Infantry respectively. Lyn has a Prf A-skill, which conflicts with the G Duel Infantry skill, which is currently her optimal A-skill in her main intended use case (Arena modes). It is for this reason that Lyn's Laws of Sacae II would be required to have a Duel effect at minimum if IS wants to see Lyn being used if at all in at least Arena modes. Sure, Hrid and Gunnthra would be screwed score-wise but players generally don't complain about them since they're already at least decent combat units whereas Lyn only beats them at score and doesn't do a particular task (combat, support, unique gimmick) particularly well when compared to other Wind options (or any Legendary Hero in general).

 

Spoiler

Non-weapon Prf skills each Legendary Hero has (and slot the skill occupies); bolded units with a Prf A-skill:
Fjorm: Ice Mirror (Special)
Gunnthra: Chilling Seal (B-skill)
Ike: Radiant Aether (Special)
Ephraim: Solar Brace (B-skill)
Robin: Dragonskin (A-skill)
Lyn: Laws of Sacae (A-skill)

Ryoma: Bushido (B-skill)
Hector: Ostia's Pulse (C-skill)
Lucina: Future Vision (Assist)
Marth: Binding Shield (B-skill)
Tiki: With Everyone! (C-skill)
Eirika: Lunar Brace (B-skill)
Hrid: Freezing Seal (B-skill)
Azura: Gray Waves (Assist)
Roy: Human Virtue (C-skill)
Alm: Lunar Flash (Special)
Eliwood: Visions of Arcadia (C-skill)
Julia: Light and Dark (B-skill)
Leif: Njorun's Zeal (Special), S Drink (B-skill)
Celica: Soul of Zofia (B-skill)
Chrom: To Change Fate! (Assist)
Edelgard: Raging Storm (B-skill)
Seliph: Holy War's End (B-skill)
Corrin: Negating Fang (Special)
Dimitri: Atrocity (B-skill)
Lilina: Gifted Magic (Special)
Claude: Fallen Star (B-skill)

Dang, Lyn and Grima are the only units with Prf A-skills. However C Duel Flying doesn't exist at all so the Duel effect problem is still pretty much unique to Lyn.

 

Edited by Roflolxp54

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...