Legendary Hero - Byleth: The Fodlan Light

[FailWood]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I actually really like the notion of Staff Corrin. Especially since it'd be an opportunity to use all those festival staff whatchamacallits Fates has (wow, my spell checker can't detect British spellings, but it has no problem with whatchamacallits!?). Though given the track record, if they did give us a staff Corrin, they'd probably ignore all the Hoshidon stuff in the actual game and give them a made up staff. Bifrost if we're lucky, but have they even given us a single S ranked weapon from Fates? Probably someone somewhere, but the S ranked Fates weapons are getting bizarrely scorned, while the Fates cast have not, leaving very few people behind to actually use the Fates weapons.

I forgot that they're called Rods for Hoshido, and they'd likely make one up (which I'm not against them doing).  I don't think they used any of the S rank weapons in Fates, and we're definitely not getting the Conquest ones seeing how Percy and Ignatius are the only (playable) Conquest units left (who aren't neutral) who aren't in Heroes.  Maybe if Hans made it as a GHB unit then we could at least get the Axe?

7 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

I’d prefer he get the Omega Yato (or at least the endgame Yato from Birthright) on the basis that there are still no Yato variants in Heroes despite it having seven variants across the three routes of Fates.

We’ve also gotten enough dragon Corrins.

Trust me, I don't want him to have a Dragonstone either.  You're thinking of the Blazing Yato from the end of Birthright.

[Medeus]

5 hours ago, XRay said:

Runescape is free with 90% of the content locked behind a subscription pay wall, and they have eventually also incorporated microtransaction AND a gacha system as additional revenue streams. While some players are vocally against the two new revenue models, many others also do not mind it. I think it is a good idea for companies to expand their revenue model as different players have different financial ability and preferences, so you have to meet them where they are at. I am very hesitant to subscribe to subscriptions in general, and I did not spend a single penny on Runescape until they released microtransaction into the game. And then once I felt comfortable spending money on Runescape did I felt more comfortable getting subscription and being a member. I generally do not spend money on the gacha system, but when I do, it is usually because there is something guaranteed after you play a certain amount.

What are some of the features locked behind the paywall? I'm not too familiar with Runescape as I stopped playing after a few years, so I don't know how their revenue models were shifted and I don't want to argue my point in bad faith. 

5 hours ago, XRay said:

While Fire Emblem Heroes is a gacha game with subscription tacked on, so it is the opposite direction in that regard, I think the overall idea is the same. Maybe some players are not willing to spend money on the gacha system at all, but they might feel comfortable dabbling in it a little after they spend some money on Special Orb Packs and having Feh Pass. They might not go for the $40 or $75 Orb Pack on a regular basis, but because they are already spending money on Special Orb Packs and Feh Pass, they might be comfortable enough to spend an additional $13 or $20 once in a while to get a guaranteed summon.

Taking things in a vacuum, I don't disagree. I think expanding their revenue model is a fine idea, especially for those who do not want to dabble in the gacha. The issue is coming down to execution, including QoL features like the Auto-Start or extra Summon Support as you mentioned later in the post are features that many of us agree shouldn't be behind a paywall, and doing so has soured the Pass for many people since those are features that should be freely available to improve the game. Sparking may not be a QoL like them, but it is something that others also feel should be more freely available and putting that behind the paywall as well is reopening those old wounds and further souring the Pass for players. 

Again, the Pass on its own would be fine as a secondary revenue model and I agree that features like the costumes (not the stats), orbs, and quests being behind it would be completely OK to be put in it. It's what is being put behind it alongside those extras that is sparking the vitriol against it.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Medeus

[Xenomata]

1 hour ago, FailWood said:

Then maybe you should've been quicker on the draw.  Not everyone is going to be neutral towards this, and judging from the tone of your response, you're not neutral either.

I'm sorry what? The solution to a problem I observe is not to shove everyone out of the way to do it instead.
I have a life. I don't dedicate my entirety of it to this one gacha game, or at least not enough to be the announcer for new stuff happening (unless it's been a day and nobody has mentioned it yet, or weapon refinery updates). Hell I was out Christmas shopping when the trailer dropped, I'm not going to stop everything in a random Bath & Body Works so I can make a new forum thread.

And no, I'm not neutral. But I also know when my opinion isn't wanted. Pretty much never, let's face facts. I don't even know why I bother anymore.

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

"The entirely wrong person"? Do you know how many of these reveal threads I've started over the last five years? Many, and there's nothing wrong with how any of them were started. This is a forum. A public discussion forum. Many, many threads just like this start off exactly the same way. Post the video and some opinions on the content within, positive or negative. Exactly what you're supposed to do on a discussion forum.

This comes off as both petty and a personal attack, not to mention kind of publicly humiliating. If you have such a problem with how I started this specific thread, maybe bring it to me privately first instead of going the public humiliation route. It's such an easy thing to fix, clicking that "edit" button would take me all of two seconds.

There, it's edited to your standards. Happy? Merry Christmas to you, too.

If you want to bring this discussion to PMs then fine, but I'm not going to apologize for not being private about calling it out.
A public discussion forum is still public, with people who all have different ways of reacting to the same news. I'm not saying you can't share your opinion, I'm saying you need to be mindful of how you present your opinion in regards to the topic. Because otherwise you are coloring their reactions and opinions with your own before they even have a chance to know what the topic is. The first post can have all the related info in it, THEN you can make a whole new post about how IntSys can suck on pennies or whatever.

And it was NOT done out of malice of any kind. Maybe I chose bad words, but I don't have any reason to think "THIS PERSON should not be making new hero threads," hell I don't even remember if we have ever talked outside of this one instance. (feels hard to be petty or host a personal attack toward someone who I barely know) I would have these same issues if it were a highly active and wise person or a mod saying the exact things you said. I will apologize for any hurt caused, because that was not what I was trying to do.

Again, if you want to talk about this in PMs then fine I'll keep talking about it in PMs, I won't bring it up publicly again. I'll take a strike or warning or whatever as well, if so necessitated.

...and no I'm not happy. I'm not out to suppress opinion, and that's exactly how you reacted.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Xenomata

[Fire Emblem Fan]

34 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

If you want to bring this discussion to PMs then fine, but I'm not going to apologize for not being private about calling it out.

There was nothing to call out! Not one single thing! Again, SO MANY topics start out exactly the same way, and not once have you ever reacted the way you did here. You DO owe an apology, unless you plan to "call out" every single future topic in these forums that has any semblance of a negative opinion in the original post.

36 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

A public discussion forum is still public, with people who all have different ways of reacting to the same news. I'm not saying you can't share your opinion, I'm saying you need to be mindful of how you present your opinion in regards to the topic. Because otherwise you are coloring their reactions and opinions with your own before they even have a chance to know what the topic is. The first post can have all the related info in it, THEN you can make a whole new post about how IntSys can suck on pennies or whatever.

No, sorry, that's wrong. Again, in a public discussion forum, topics are going to be started in all manner of ways. It's not up to you to police every starting post to your personal standards.

39 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

And it was NOT done out of malice of any kind. Maybe I chose bad words, but I don't have any reason to think "THIS PERSON should not be making new hero threads," hell I don't even remember if we have ever talked outside of this one instance. (feels hard to be petty or host a personal attack toward someone who I barely know) I would have these same issues if it were a highly active and wise person or a mod saying the exact things you said. I will apologize for any hurt caused, because that was not what I was trying to do.

There's no other way to take "the entirely wrong person" especially since, as noted, you've NEVER reacted this way to any thread started the exact same way by any other person. And you've been here since 2015. If you didn't mean any kind of malice or personal attack, "the entirety wrong person" was close to the worst thing you could have led with.

42 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

Again, if you want to talk about this in PMs then fine I'll keep talking about it in PMs, I won't bring it up publicly again. I'll take a strike or warning or whatever as well, if so necessitated.

I won't bring it up again, either, and I'll also take a strike if need be. Just know that that really hurt.

[FailWood]

20 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

A public discussion forum is still public, with people who all have different ways of reacting to the same news. I'm not saying you can't share your opinion, I'm saying you need to be mindful of how you present your opinion in regards to the topic. Because otherwise you are coloring their reactions and opinions with your own before they even have a chance to know what the topic is. The first post can have all the related info in it, THEN you can make a whole new post about how IntSys can suck on pennies or whatever.

He was being mindful about the rule against double posting, plus it makes sense for him to lead with his own opinion after posting the topic as he was the one who created it.  You're pretty much telling him to either wait for someone else to give their opinion before he can give his own, or make a whole separate topic after the fact which makes no sense.  If you want to continue this, then PM me.  Otherwise know that I think your logic is flawed.

40 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I'm sorry what? The solution to a problem I observe is not to shove everyone out of the way to do it instead.

Calling him out is no better, if not worse then making another out of spite.

[Sunwoo]

Male Corrin should get either Yato or a staff. We have enough dragon forms of Corrin, and I believe that legendary female Corrin should've been a sword anyway. Since she has no red alt, and no 1-range non-dragon alt.

If FEH Pass made it so that everyone got universal sparking, BUT FEH Pass subscribers got an extra spark or could spark for cheaper on all banners, I'd be fine. But paywalling sparking on the other types of banners entirely isn't cool. That's all I will say about this and will not be replying to anyone who bothers to reply to me.

[Florete]

3 hours ago, FailWood said:

Then maybe you should've been quicker on the draw.  Not everyone is going to be neutral towards this, and judging from the tone of your response, you're not neutral either.

How does, "The trailer should come before personal opinions" result in "Then you should make sure to post it instead'? I agree with Xenomata that it should be common courtesy to leave your own opinions below the trailer, and I don't think that's a big ask. Let people see the content they came for first, let them see other reactions if they want to after.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Looking at all the characters on the banner again, I think green would be the most beneficial for me, as far as just characters go. I don't have 2 of the 3 green units, and one of them is Legendary Male Byleth, which would be nice to summon. I have all three colorless units and 2 out of the 3 for blue and red (the single blue I don't have obviously being Female Byleth).

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

If FEH Pass made it so that everyone got universal sparking, BUT FEH Pass subscribers got an extra spark or could spark for cheaper on all banners, I'd be fine. But paywalling sparking on the other types of banners entirely isn't cool. That's all I will say about this and will not be replying to anyone who bothers to reply to me.

I think I agree with this.

[Ice Dragon]

10 hours ago, Medeus said:

You don't have a third of a PS5 that's available for everyone and then 2/3's of it locked behind a paywall.

A third of a PS5 is not functional, whereas sparks on some banners is functional. Having to pay for the remaining 2/3 of a PS5 just to make it functional is not at all analogous to having to pay for sparks on additional banners when you already have sparks on some banners.

Try again.

 

10 hours ago, Medeus said:

I never said it didn't cost any money, so I'm not sure where you're getting that. 

I was pre-empting the argument.

 

10 hours ago, Medeus said:

And I'm sure this is an issue for other gachas as well, but those can have universal spark systems with not nearly as harsh of a caveat as FEH is posing with this pass. 

It's still a balancing act between the revenue you lose from paying players to the revenue you gain from attracting new players that will eventually become paying players.

Adding generous sparks typically results in a positive revenue balance for younger games where attracting new players is important and the market for new players is larger, whereas the balance swings the other way for older, well-known games with established player bases.

 

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

If FEH Pass made it so that everyone got universal sparking, BUT FEH Pass subscribers got an extra spark or could spark for cheaper on all banners, I'd be fine. But paywalling sparking on the other types of banners entirely isn't cool. That's all I will say about this and will not be replying to anyone who bothers to reply to me.

And lose 400 USD per dolphin or whale per month? Yeah, that's not happening.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[eclipse]

So much for a quiet lunch.

WRT to making the reveal thread - I'm all for compromise, and that compromise is "spoiler tags".  I don't think the first post should be a reaction post, but I can also understand why people would want to react, especially given the FEH Pass news.  Put any reactions to the video in spoiler tags, and that should solve both issues - those that just want the video can see the video, and the first poster's reactions are out in public.  Which leads to. . .

FEH Pass - $10 USD is just for America.  It's more cost-prohibitive elsewhere, depending on exchange rates.  Please keep this in mind when debating the cost of this new system.

Corrin - Yato and its forms are part of the story of Fates.  Staves are cool but otherwise not.  Hence why I want Yato.  Though having a staff Corrin sometime in the future would be nifty IMO.

[FailWood]

8 minutes ago, eclipse said:

So much for a quiet lunch.

Lol.  To be fair, when are these reveal posts ever quiet?

9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Corrin - Yato and its forms are part of the story of Fates.  Staves are cool but otherwise not.  Hence why I want Yato.  Though having a staff Corrin sometime in the future would be nifty IMO.

Oh hey, we agree (or half agree) on something.  Seriously thought that would never happen.

[eclipse]

Just now, FailWood said:

Lol.  To be fair, when are these reveal posts ever quiet?

Oh hey, we agree (or half agree) on something.  Seriously thought that would never happen.

The reveal posts are a lot more quiet when IS isn't locking stuff behind a FEH Pass!  And people will eventually agree on something, given enough data points (this holds true for people who I disagree with on far more, uh, intense matters).

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, eclipse said:

FEH Pass - $10 USD is just for America.  It's more cost-prohibitive elsewhere, depending on exchange rates.  Please keep this in mind when debating the cost of this new system.

I only know what I know, so if anyone has price comparisons relative to the cost of living in other countries, I'm all ears. As it is, I'm only really familiar with middle-class America, so that's the only reference frame I have in terms of money.

Any comparison relative to the price of orbs, though, (as opposed to relative to the price of everyday goods) should still remain accurate since that should be relatively consistent regardless of currency.

 

Just now, FailWood said:

Lol.  To be fair, when are these reveal posts ever quiet?

In general, most are quieter than this one has been. Most of them don't have me arguing in them.

[FailWood]

3 minutes ago, eclipse said:

The reveal posts are a lot more quiet when IS isn't locking stuff behind a FEH Pass!  And people will eventually agree on something, given enough data points (this holds true for people who I disagree with on far more, uh, intense matters).

Or at the very least reach a middle ground.  We know that from experience, don't we?

6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

In general, most are quieter than this one has been. Most of them don't have me arguing in them.

I don't really notice you arguing.  You can be chatty, but you're still productive on these topics and contribute plenty of meaningful stuff to the conversation.

[ARMADS!!!]

No wonder that they would give F!Byleth the whip-like weapon insead of M!Byleth (chillax, I'm kidding)

 

 Well, this banner is kinda... shitty. I wait for the Legendary/Mythic banner every month and it is this, ok. The problem is not Byleth (I mean, Im not aiming for her, but still she is not the main problem), but Oh boy! the focus heroes are all just so... meh. Of course I know that the "quality" of these banners are usually a matter of opinion depending on who you have or want, but for me, almost none of these are useful enough for me this time(for legendary banner selection levels).

 Last month's banner was so awesome (too bad that I only got L!Dimitri and two extra copies of L!Micaiah... I wanted almost everyone else) so seeing this one now is just... You know I guess that I'll only free pull for this

 If someone actually care, Im probably free pulling for red (because of Lilina). If not available then Green (for Freyja) or grey (for merges of Marianne or Yuri). I'm saving for the NY banner (Oh, yeaaaaaah, I'm waiting for you, jotun sisters! Take all of my orbs and my soul!!!)

 

 Also, sorry for whoever cares about it I'm trying to not look insensitive, but I dont really care about this whole spark thing, I never summon 40 times anyway (really I think I only did it once or twice). I mean, I understand why IS did it and also why people are pissed about it, but I just don't care enough anymore to be pissed about it, like it could have been something worst and soon or later it was probably going to happen anyway.

[Naoshi]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I only know what I know, so if anyone has price comparisons relative to the cost of living in other countries, I'm all ears. As it is, I'm only really familiar with middle-class America, so that's the only reference frame I have in terms of money.

Any comparison relative to the price of orbs, though, (as opposed to relative to the price of everyday goods) should still remain accurate since that should be relatively consistent regardless of currency.

$10 USA dollars = $200 pesos and FEH pass for me it's $175 pesos, aka it's bit more cheaper.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Naoshi

[XRay]

9 hours ago, Medeus said:

What are some of the features locked behind the paywall? I'm not too familiar with Runescape as I stopped playing after a few years, so I don't know how their revenue models were shifted and I don't want to argue my point in bad faith. 

Membership has been the same since the beginning. You get about twice as many skills, and the free skills that free players have access to now have at least two or three times more content. Training skills in general is also less tedious since there are lot more ways to train and are more efficient. In terms of quests, you get like at least ten times more quests. The map is about four or five times bigger, so there is a lot more to explore. There is more stuff to do in general. I am not sure how much micro transactions and gacha contributes towards Jagex's revenue, but Runescape members can generally easily rake in enough in game currency (GP) to simply buy most rewards directly or indirectly from the other two revenue streams.

Fire Emblem Heroes' main revenue stream is the gacha system, and their subscription and Special Orb Packs seems like it is made to support that with Orbs and guaranteed summons. My distaste with Feh Pass is that it has benefits/rewards outside the main revenue model (Summoner Supports, Re-Act, Auto-Start, Resplendent stats, etc.), and you cannot use the currency of the gacha system (Orbs in this case) to get those rewards. I think extra guaranteed summons is totally fine because it is essentially the equivalent of extra Orbs once you break it down to its most basic level, and Orbs is not something that is exclusive to Feh Pass subscribers. Given enough time to save Orbs, any player can eventually get any Hero they want, free players will just get there slower compared to someone with Feh Pass. On the other hand, lacking stats and extra summoner support literally puts a hard performance cap on a non Feh Pass player rather than just simply inconveniencing them with a longer time table to reach their goal. Quality of life features like Re-Act and Auto-Start should have been free, or at least give players a choice to get those features with a few Orbs like how players can choose to get more Affinity in Aether Resort by paying 3 Orbs.

[Dylan Corona]

42 minutes ago, Naoshi said:

$10 USA dollars = $200 pesos and FEH pass for me it's $175 pesos, aka it's bit more cheaper.

My slow winter break brain took a second to reread this, and realize you were talking about pesos haha. I saw the $175 and was like what!? But that's cool that it's cheaper in some places. But I'm always broke and I always find the 10 dollars to buy the pass haha. Expect maybe during the summer when I don't work as much or at all sometimes.

[Ice Dragon]

Now that the banner is out, can anyone confirm how they've implemented the spark counter for players that don't have a Feh Pass subscription (i.e. does it count even if you don't have a subscription)?

[Jotari]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Now that the banner is out, can anyone confirm how they've implemented the spark counter for players that don't have a Feh Pass subscription (i.e. does it count even if you don't have a subscription)?

It shows 0/40 in the bottom left with a gold FE icon beside it. The 0/40 is greyed out to display that it doesn't apply to me. Sensible really, as you need to let people know they're missing something if you want them to buy it. After summoning the counter increases to 1/40, so it still keeps track. Presumably once you get to 40, if you then join the pass you can avail of the rewards. Not sure what the colour would look like for displaying the maxed green along with the greyed out unavilable. I won't be summoning nearly that high for this one to find out though. Maybe if they give us Legendary Alvis in the future I'd be willing to go that high.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

54 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It shows 0/40 in the bottom left with a gold FE icon beside it. The 0/40 is greyed out to display that it doesn't apply to me. Sensible really, as you need to let people know they're missing something if you want them to buy it. After summoning the counter increases to 1/40, so it still keeps track. Presumably once you get to 40, if you then join the pass you can avail of the rewards. Not sure what the colour would look like for displaying the maxed green along with the greyed out unavilable. I won't be summoning nearly that high for this one to find out though. Maybe if they give us Legendary Alvis in the future I'd be willing to go that high.

Cool, so basically exactly how I expected them to implement it. Makes the most sense for advertising the feature without being intrusive about it.

[Yexin]

11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I only know what I know, so if anyone has price comparisons relative to the cost of living in other countries, I'm all ears.

Any comparison relative to the price of orbs, though, (as opposed to relative to the price of everyday goods) should still remain accurate since that should be relatively consistent regardless of currency.

$10 is around 8.8€. in italy, the FEH pass costs 11.49€ which is like $13
depending on where you live, with 11.49€ you can even have a decent one-person dinner at a restaurant (unless you want fish-based dishes or grilled meat)
you can even order 2/3 take-away tomato and mozzarella pizzas, if you know the right place

 

anyway, i'd have been fine with literally anything, i'd have been only interested in the Legendary Hero Battle's orbs (which, luckily, granted me 3 more copies of Winter Manuela)

Edited December 24, 2021 by Yexin

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Yexin said:

$10 is around 8.8€. in italy, the FEH pass costs 11.49€ which is like $13
depending on where you live, with 11.49€ you can even have a decent one-person dinner at a restaurant (unless you want fish-based dishes or grilled meat)
you can even order 2/3 take-away tomato and mozzarella pizzas, if you know the right place

 

anyway, i'd have been fine with literally anything, i'd have been only interested in the Legendary Hero Battle's orbs (which, luckily, granted me 3 more copies of Winter Manuela)

Wow. I've never even bothered to check the price of the pass, so I had no idea there was a price hike in Europe (just checked, it's 11.49 for me). They could have just made it a flat 10 euro, and it still would have been more expensive than the US, but they decided to go full all and try for a 30% price increase. I wonder why. That's not an insignificant difference in pricing.

[Diovani Bressan]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

It shows 0/40 in the bottom left with a gold FE icon beside it. The 0/40 is greyed out to display that it doesn't apply to me. Sensible really, as you need to let people know they're missing something if you want them to buy it. After summoning the counter increases to 1/40, so it still keeps track. Presumably once you get to 40, if you then join the pass you can avail of the rewards. Not sure what the colour would look like for displaying the maxed green along with the greyed out unavilable. I won't be summoning nearly that high for this one to find out though. Maybe if they give us Legendary Alvis in the future I'd be willing to go that high.

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Cool, so basically exactly how I expected them to implement it. Makes the most sense for advertising the feature without being intrusive about it.

This is what happens once you reach 40 summons and don't have Feh Pass:

 

[Jotari]

17 hours ago, eclipse said:

Corrin - Yato and its forms are part of the story of Fates.  Staves are cool but otherwise not.  Hence why I want Yato.  Though having a staff Corrin sometime in the future would be nifty IMO.

Legendary units don't always use their most associated weapon. Like Leif wields the Master Bow in his legendary incarnation, and that's something he can't even do in Thracia, he can wield bows in Genealogy, which is what they were obviously basing his legendary form off of, but Master Bows don't even exist in Genealogy. Meanwhile he has a semi prf weapon in Thracia in the form of the Blagi Sword. They also gave Legendary Lucina bows...and Legendary Alm...and Legendary Lyn...wait are bows the only weapon type they've given characters who don't use their main weapon? I guess they randomly gave Ryoma a pegasus, but he still uses Raijinto. It seems if they ever go off weapon then it's always a bow.

In addition, we already have Yato Corrin in the game. Granted it's from the first year and it's a rather underwhelming weapon, but I'm pretty sure even visually it is the Omega Yato. Strange that they never gave him the Omega Yato as a weapon evolution though. Anyone remember weapon evolutions? That was a thing once, right? Anyway another reason to give Corrin a staff is that we don't have any legendary staff wielders yet (though even though she isn't in the game yet, I wouldn't be surprised if we got legendary Elice using Aum some day). Hexing Rod would be a good choice. That's what I thought they should have given Iago over Iago's Tome (which I don't think I knew even existed in Fates until Heroes, Iago never even uses it despite the name). A staff that causes passive Deep Wounds isn't something we've seen yet.