Ranking each game by class: Nomad/BowKnight

[Whisky]

The other Bow class in these games. I suspect the rankings won’t be significantly different than with Snipers, with a few exceptions.

There is some overlap between BowKnight and Archer in some games, but other games they are a separate class line, and in some games they’re actually overlapped with Paladins. You guys can do whatever you think makes sense. For me, I’m going to count Astrid’s classes, but not other Paladins, since she actually specializes in Bows.

Echoes

Same reason as Snipers basically. Bows are good in this game with their really long ranged attacks. Bow Knights are just the final form of the Archer like here. You could argue that their availability brings them down, but it’s not like it’s an investment with an eventual payoff, they’re good before reaching Bow Knight too. Bow Knight is a late game class and is it good in the late game so it’s good.

Three Houses

Bows are really good in 3H. The biggest thing holding back Bow specific classes is that any class can use Bows, so a Wyvern Lord with Bows is arguably better than a Bow Knight. Bow Knight is still a good class too though with high range, high move, and canto, making it a very versatile class. It also has utility by being able to support with chain attacks from longer range than other classes. People do generally consider Sniper better because of how strong Hunter’s Volley is, but Bow Knight still has some nice advantages of its own and can be particularly good on certain units like Leonie or Bernadetta.

Binding Blade

Bows are much more useful here than the other GBA games. And being a mounted Bow user is better than being an infantry Bow user. Shin is quite a good unit, at least on HM. Nomadic Troopers not only have high Move and Rescue/Drop utility but can also use Swords as a bonus, which are also better here than in other GBA games.

Engage

I have found Bows very useful for taking out fliers in this game. I haven’t used Bow Knight yet but higher Move is always a nice thing to have, and I’d say Fogado counts for this. His class is better at using the Radiant Bow than other Bow classes. Although I’ve seen people say he’s better as a Warrior. Bow classes in this game do have to compete with other Bow users like Warriors and whoever is using Lyn or Lucina.

Path of Radiance

Bows are bad in this game but being mounted is really good. When Cavaliers promote they can choose what new weapon type they gain so Astrid can get Axes. The Bow Cavalier class isn’t too good but becomes good when it promotes. Astrid joins underleveled but has Paragon to level up and promote quicker.

Radiant Dawn

Being mounted isn’t quite as broken as it was in PoR. I think Bows are a little better but still not great and Bow Paladins promote into Silver Knights and gain Lances instead of getting to choose. Paragon also isn’t restricted to this class anymore so that’s not longer in its favor.

Shadow Dragon

I think Bows aren’t too bad here but I’ve always seen people recommend making Wolf and Sedgar into Generals and then Heroes and not Horseman. Bows and Lances probably would have been better but Bows and Swords doesn’t seem too useful.

Sacred Stones

Well Ranger is a lot better than Sniper. Being able to use both Swords and Bows while being mounted. It has less Move than in the other GBA games but hey, more Move is more Move. And Rescue/Drop utility. Another advantage it has over Hero for Gerik is that it has less Con. As a Hero, Gerik has so much Con that he can be hard to Rescue/Drop. However the lack of 1-2 range definitely hurts this class. Swords are also the weakest weapon type. Being able to use high Mt Axes is really nice. 

Blazing Sword

Again, a lot better than Sniper. High Move, Rescue/Drop utility (with particularly high Aid to Rescuing really heavy units), and dual Swords/Bows. Again the problem being no 1-2 range and Swords and Bows being the weakest weapon types.

[Dark Holy Elf]

This class certainly acquits itself better than Sniper does on average. Generally speaking Bow Knight ≥ Sniper in almost all games they're available. Sometimes the two classes are about equal, but sometimes Bow Knight is way better. Or, see my #1 and #2 for examples of each!

Good

1. Three Houses: Sniper might be better (it depends) but this is still a top two grounded physical class while it exists. Bow Range +2 with canter is insane, you can pretty much permanently support your allies with linked attacks, attack/aggro whoever you want and retreat to safety. It's not as good at killing as Sniper but (a) it doesn't need to be given everything else it brings to the table, (b) units with high offensive stats (e.g. Felix/Claude/Dimitri) or a good combat art (e.g. Leonie/Cyril) can kill things in it just fine. Did you know that you can dismount (for 6 move at worst, though more on most turns the way dismount works) and have a +3 speed modifier, which trails only fliers and the two fast sword classes? Yeah.

2. Path of Radiance: Honestly, I think even if Astrid were locked to bows the entire game, she'd make them work. Since Snipers are so bad in this game and weapon ranks so hard to raise (i.e. Boyd/other paladins having E is bad), Astrid basically has a lock on every good bow in this game, e.g. the brave bow. Anyway as a class it has canto, knight ward access, rescue, solid stats, and gets a weapon of their choice (i.e. axes with its E-rank steel and 1-2 range) on promotion. Astrid herself is underlevelled but this is offset by having Paragon.

3. Binding Blade: Reliable one-rounding of wyverns is good, and as a group they have good speed (Sin also has good strength) so have solid offence otherwise, and of course good move. They do need to wait for promotion to get a one-ranged option but so it goes. They're helped by the fact that javelins/hand axes aren't very good in this game, so sword+bow is actually a great combo. Definitely a solid class.

Average

4. Engage: The fastest bow class, and you can choose their secondary weapon, which is cool. Alternatively, Fogado has a high magic base to use Radiant Bow with, which is one of the game's best. Not higher mostly because cavalry was reined in a bit in this game, only +1 move and has an on-average relatively weak set of emblem bonuses.

5t. Fates, Awakening, Sacred Stones: Honestly just gonna group these three together. In all cases, it's a passable mid tier class. Not one of the best, but they're mobile and have respectable stats. For Mercenaries, this vs. Hero tends to be a reasonably balanced choice: do you want 1-2 range or do you want more move and flier-killing utility? In Fates the 1-2 range isn't as valuable, but the stat comparison tilts to favour Hero more. In Sacred Stones, 1-2 is probably most valuable, but on the other hand Ranger has good rescue capabilities (and Gerik himself is easier to rescue as @Whisky sagely notes). Niles/Nina also have a reasonably balanced choice here, and while Neimi's choice is obvious, that says more about how bad Sniper is.

8. Genealogy: Midir has iffy stats but has a horse and Followup, so that's cool. Lester depends a lot on who his dad is and what he inherits. This is a hard class to rate but about here feels right. There's a big drop from #8 to #9.

Bad

9. Blazing Blade: What a difference compared to the other Elibe game. First of all, javelins/hand axes ARE good now, so sword+bow takes a tumble. Then, killing wyverns just isn't as useful a niche. Finally, the one member of this class joins weak and underlevelled, so it's easier just to wait for Geitz/Louise to handle your bows. He's kinda fun if you get him caught up at least, far moreso than Wil or Rebecca.

10. Radiant Dawn: I'm not counting the Lance Paladins for this (they don't get bows until third tier, by which point the inability to use the Double Bow and low amount of flying enemies means you'll think of them as lance primary), so that just leaves Astrid, who is a bottom three unit in this game. The class itself is decent on paper (though still flawed since the bow lack lasts relatively long) but the one unit with it has stats so bad it doesn't matter. This is the one game where Sniper is clearly better in practice.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Dark Holy Elf

[samthedigital]

Rath has a decent niche in some LTC/Efficiency playthroughs (particularly dondon's 0% growths run, but I do remember seeing it somewhere else) because of early Brave Bow access and being mounted, so I would disagree with it being placed below Sacred Stones where there's less concrete utility for bows.

Thracia hasn't been mentioned yet, and Selphina is the only unit of note there. I've always found her to be average because of her mounted utility, decent damage, and not losing her primary weapon indoors. It's still a lower tier showing, but I still find it to be at least somewhat noteworthy; the class in general isn't complete garbage in any game besides RD.

[ping]

• Binding Blade - Bows are good, mobility is good, and Shin backs that up with very good stats on HM, too. Sue, despite her lackluster strength, is also not a bad unit at all, and Dayan makes for a decent filler unit for chapter 21 in particular. Good class with good representation.
• Path of Radiance - Yeah, Astrid is good and fun, although with axes as her second weapon type, she feels very much like a regular paladin. Forged Steel and Hand Axes at E rank means that at least me, there's rarely a reason to have her use a bow after promotion. Still, if we count her, she belongs up here.
• New Mystery - Hunter is a good reclass option - Ryan and Gordin to improve their mobility and basically every stat sans Def; Luke makes a good Hunter in my experience; I think Doga is still good in the class, too..? After promotion, the comparison to Sniper isn't as favourable anymore, though. Horsemen still have the mobility, but their combat stats are actually worse than Sniper, unless the character has very high personal stats.
• Shadow Dragon - You don't have the Archer-->Hunter reclass option anymore, which makes the class less broadly applicable. It's still a good option for Doga, I think, who makes a good glass cannon in this class. However, as OP mentions, it's worth noting that Wolf and Sedgar both have more utility in classes other than Horseman.
• Sacred Stones - Ranger is a competitive promotion option for a solid unit and the clearly more useful option for a bad unit. It's... not a whole lot, to be honest, but Ranger!Gerik being as solid as he is brings this above BlaBla in my book.
• Blazing Sword - Rath does have his perks, honestly. If you didn't play Lyn Mode, he comes with Brave Bow access (and if you do play it, he can still get there quite easily within LHM by using the Short Bow) and he has very high reach with a Long Bow. His huge aid stat ("can carry promoted Hector" isn't a bad trait to have) is worth mentioning, too. Still, Gerik is probably more consistently useful than Rath, with BlaBla being a 1-2-range-centric as it is.
• Radiant Dawn - Astrid is so bad in this one, holy shit. Female Silver Knight has the very specific use of being a mounted class with enough speed to double auras with Nasir support, but that isn't saving Astrid (or Fiona) from being near the bottom of the rankings for this game.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Only looking at games I've played since 2017. 

1. Echoes: Yeah I mean, it's the promotion for Sniper. Great for the same reasons we covered before.
2. FE4: Midir is great. I consider him Alec except they can't attack him back. His potential to kill really depends on whether you'll give up Jamke's Killer Bow, but even without it chip damage is way more sensible when paired with Canto, and enemies are bulky enough to require chip damage in the first place. Instead of needing to surround Jamke with bulky units, Midir can retreat behind the wall of his fellow cavs, and still have the Mov to target whoever on the next turn. He sees so much combat exp that he doesn't need to rely on Arena runs to keep up like Jamke does. Lester is an odd duck. His availability is excellent, but he does not have pursuit unless you arranged for him to have it. His substitute not only does have Pursuit, but also a secret +5 strength boost that I'm just now reading about. I don't think it's worth messing with Lana to push for him, but it's very cool to see a good sub unit. It's wild that Pursuit is not a class skill for this class, yet two of three units in the class have it. Plus the last one if you paired Aideen with certain people. None of these units are realistically bad.
3. Three Houses: A Bow Knight's 4-5 range on top of Canto makes them very versatile, and since your Snipers don't really need the Brave Bow, a Bow Knight has no real competition for it besides Claude or some other flying archer build. Furthermore, Cyril and Leonie's Point Blank Volley makes up for the lack of HV (though it requires getting into 1 range, which cuts their Canto potential drastically). What keeps Sniper above Bow Knight is really just the low investment nature of the class. A sniper needs only to worry about their strength stat and bow rank to stay at peak performance. A Bow Knight has a much harder certification and several of their stats matter on most turns. Like a lot of mounted classes, the lacking combat compared to Snipers really comes into play on Maddening compared to lower difficulties. The class' stats and growths are also pretty gross too. I'm not even upset at the -5 speed growth, I'm peeved at the 0 on everything else. The Level 5 Fighter Class gets you better level ups.
4. Path of Radiance: It's iffy to say that Astrid is a "different class" from cavalier, but she is stuck with bows until promotion. Really obnoxious to recruit on first turn and does pitiful damage at her join time, but paragon helps her catch up. Even bonus exp counts double for her. She's not an essential unit to raise, but it's a fun project. In a game with canto, she's fine just dealing chip damage and moving back behind your wall of units. And since the other two archers aren't particularly good, that's a lot of good bows she gets to use that would otherwise take up space in your Convoy. My only problem with Astrid is her support list is pretty bad.
5. FE3 Book 2: No Wolf/Sedgar, so your only potential Horseman is promoting Castor. And Castor's not bad. He's decently high leveled for his join time. He comes with your first Killer Bow. He has a long way to go before Parthia, but I'm sure one of the star shards prioritizes weapon level and it's definitely not in high demand. There are still wyvern knights that need shooting down in chapter 5, then the game takes a break from spamming them until Chapter 9 and you have George to replace him. Sticking with Castor over George isn't a great move, but you could field both in tough maps with flying dragons. Book 2's late game is way less indoors maps, so the horsemen class can actually use its movement.
6. FE6: I've used Sue and Shin in a run currently and I'm not impressed with either. Though the run isn't over yet, so I'm not sure where this should really rank if I haven't yet used Dayan. Sue's performance on the first wyverns is pretty pitiful, just like your other two archers. Just another chipper/rescue bot. Then the next time you fight wyverns you have aircalibur and ballistae, which nomads cannot use. Shin still needs several good levels before he's ORKOing enemies on either difficulty. And he is disappointing because of his D rank in bows. Can't even use the Killer Bow you would have before that point (or the other Killer Bow you're about to get if you visit the village that locks in A route). Klein shows up in the next one or two chapters with higher marks across the board on either difficulty. Shin being level 5 puts him uncomfortably far away from his promotion. Got to make a choice constantly: get some battle experience, or use your horse to rescue drop and trade swap for the upcoming enemy phase - Cavaliers can do both on every turn, Nomads only can if they have hand axes to bait out. He should early promote, since you're running out of brigands to escape E rank swords by the time he joins.
   1. Minor point, but Shin has the highest Aid stat in the game at 18. Only fails to pick up Merlinus and Barth (assuming both of them have promoted. If only one of them has, Shin can still pick Barth up). I'm using the Bors/Bars Dream Team and it matters to me, at least.
7. FE8: This class only exists as a promotion path. So it's best evaluated on the pretense of what that choice provides for those two units. Ranger is a pretty easy promotion choice for Neimi. For Gerik, I actually think he has the most nuanced promotion choice in the entire game, especially on Eirika route where he would face much more gargoyles and wyverns. Gerik has an obvious preference for axes by having high base speed and enough Con to use them without penalty, but FE8 Bows are not the worst complement to swords. In an awkward math coincidence, he gains neither Con nor Aid from the horse, and Hero Gerik becomes un-pickupable once your mounted units promote. However, Hero Gerik will handily walk himself to the action over FE8's late game maps with a ton of river and mountain tiles. If anything, he's the one doing the Rescuing in a sort of Dozla/Ross way. Overall, I think Hero Gerik comes out on top, but Ranger seems interesting enough to try out.
8. FE1: Hunters do not promote into Horsemen in this game, so we're going to ignore Castor here. Between Wolf/Sedgar, Wolf comes out on top for both bases and growths. For FE1 standards, his stats are not bad. Gordin at level 10/20 could surpass him a bit in stats, but that's almost double the experience investment. And a level 20/20 Gordin is out of the question without arena abuse (and a lot of patience moving a 5 Mov unit around). Horsemen have 9 mov. It turns out I was wrong in the previous thread, Hunters and Horsemen can use the bowgun - I swear that I read otherwise on this site but I just confirmed that they can. Wolf's base 7 AS with a bowgun is good enough that he should pull the double on the vast majority of enemies throughout the game, but he's generally hoping to bank on a crit for ORKOs.
9. FE7: I don't like Rath. As far as I know he's the only unit made weaker if you choose to play Lyn Mode. Pro tip: If you want the slightly stronger Rath, get him killed. He will return with better stats later. I have to assume however that not every player is aware of the trick, and every player has to do the first playthrough w/Lyn Mode, so Rath's shortcomings are going to still realistically come up more often than not. Assuming Rath shows up with his better bases and weapon rank, then he can benefit from FE7's extremely early Brave Bow (it's in the same chapter you recruit him), but Geitz is potentially your next recruit, and Louise certainly gets more use out of it too. The best argument I've heard in his favor is "c'mon, who else will use the Orion's Bolt?" And also "The arena is coming up, he can level up there". Like Shin, highest Aid in the game, meaning he can carry every non Merlinus unit, regardless of who has promoted.
10. FE3 Book 1: Castor can promote into a horseman now, which is great because of his 60/40 Str/Spd growths. His base Skill and growth were also improved, in a game where each point of skill is a single point of crit and all enemies have 0 luck. Unfortunately bows are much worse in this game. They're a bit stronger but much heavier on top of needing an additional 3AS more than the opponent to double. The Bowgun is gone, and there's no Killer Bow in Book 1 either. His Weapon Level is unfortunately so low that he probably won't be able to use Parthia without you giving him your Manual. He's just one point shy of using Silver Bows, so that will have to suffice. The promotion gains aren't much beyond the boost up to 9 movement, and you have to remember much of the back half of this game is indoors maps where he's back to being a Hunter.
    1. As for Wolf/Sedgar, they suck. They actually have less bases and growths, on top of not being able to coast on the Bowgun. Then their stats are reduced further for the indoor map immediately after you recruit them. I gotta penalize this ranking because of these clowns. I think the best argument for Horsemen in this game is just how bad the Javelin is. In a game where you're not doing much ORKOing, chip damage is inevitable, so it may as well be from someone with naturally high Mov and you won't mind losing.

In a tier list format, Echoes is A Rank, #2-4 are B rank. 5-9 are C, the last is D. 

Edit: Misremembered that FE6 Klein also gets hard mode bonuses. Not just Shin

Edited April 11, 2023 by Zapp Branniglenn

[samthedigital]

45 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Assuming Rath shows up with his better bases and weapon rank, then he can benefit from FE7's extremely early Brave Bow (it's in the same chapter you recruit him), but Geitz is potentially your next recruit, and Louise certainly gets more use out of it too. The best argument I've heard in his favor is "c'mon, who else will use the Orion's Bolt?" And also "The arena is coming up, he can level up there".

10/1 Rath with his better bases compared to base Louise has +2HP, -1 Str, -2Skl, +2Def, and -5 speed without factoring in growths and the fact that he has 5 maps to catch up. Considering the fact that FE7 enemies have low doubling thresholds and the fact that he leads everywhere that's important after adding in growths (especially in move, 1 range access, and mounted utility) there shouldn't be any argument for Louise getting more use out of it or being better, and if we're moving at a mounted unit's pace there's no way that Louise is catching up anyway. Another thing to note is that he has more movement than Paladins in snow; it gives him some added utility for that one chapter too.

[Eltosian Kadath]

Another tier list image to convey my impressions.

 

S Tier: One of the Best Classes in the Game

Echoes, Shadows of Valentia: Literally the same classline in this game as sniper, so I will just copy-paste it. This class has so much going for it. Massive range (including up to Bow Range +2), that functions even on enemy phase (unlike the wonky ranges of your mages), that can even hit back at one range is a massive boon to the class. Getting mounted movement thanks to promoting into Bow Knight. Being effective against flying foes is a nice touch as well. Although getting access to the incredibly potent Hunters Volley from an easily forged Killer Bow just pushes this class into the absurdly good range

 

A Tier: A Fairly Good Class

Fates: I must admit this is a bit muddled by the two routes taken to get this class, as the thief utility and extra move I find far more useful than the Mercenary approach to this class, but in either case it has some really good thing going for it, especially in Conquest. Bows are a solid weapon type with high might, effective damage against fliers, and WTA against Shurikens, and sword's aren't shafted like they are in most games, so that weapon access is fairly solid too. It gets Skill Rally just in time to help with the obnoxiously evasive Fox Hell map, and by far its best feature is getting Shuriken Breaker in time to make Lunatic's Inevitable End Ninjas more manageable. I always have at least one on my team to help with chapters 24 and 25 in particular, and I find the class does fine even before the point where it shines brightest, with notable uses in the midgame maps people most complain about the most as well (Fox Hell, and Ninja Hell).

Binding Blade: Bows are rather good in this game, safe chip is useful on the higher difficulties, and enemy Wyverns are both numerous, and dangerous, making their effective damage really good. Having a horse for carrying people is especially useful in the carry Roy game as well. Getting access to the highly accurate swords adds even more utility to the class as it promotes. Also Shin in particular is really good with his Hard Mode bonuses. The biggest weakness of the class is that people dislike the Sacae maps...

Path of Radiance: Horses are really good in this game, and while Bows kinda suck, you get to chose a new weapon type after promotion with cavs. Admittedly, if Astrid didn't come prepackaged with Paragon I might dock the class more for having to suffer through only bows before promotion, but that will be brief thanks to that skill and the catchup powers of BEXP.

Three Houses: Slightly worse than Sniper, but not enough to drop a tier. While they miss out on the excellent Hunter's Volley, they do have the tradeoff of an extra point of range, and the higher mobility of the mount, so they aren't overshadowed by Snipers either.

 

B Tier: An OK Class

Genealogy of the Holy War: Mounted classes are really good in this game. Admittedly being unable to enemy as well is what dropped the class out of S/A tier, but the power of ponies is simply so very good in this game, and there are some really quality bows in the Killer and Brave Bows. The ranged Arena being easier does help them keep up experience wise despite this flaw, with passable skill access on the gen 1 version as well makes this class OK.

New Mystery: Funnily enough, the Bow Knight is the worst part of this class-line, as Hunter being the best unpromoted bow class is what earned its place here. Safe ranged chip, and effective damage against fliers is really useful even in the early game, so being the best unpromoted bow class is really useful. Bow Knight on the other hand is probably the worst promoted bow class, but when chapter 2 and 3 are filled with Wyverns, being a good early game bow class is useful for that time.

 

C Tier:  A Niche Class

Shadow Dragon:  Bows are not the most common effective damage type in this game, but it is still forgable effective damage in SD. I am very tempted to drop this down into D tier despite that, as both Warrior, and General are better promoted bow classes, but hunter having the only unpromoted bow access for this class set convinced me to keep it in this tier.

Engage: Truth be told I never felt much need to try out any of the bow knight classes. Warrior and Sniper covered my bow use just fine, and Fogado didn't impress with his join chapter. I might end up reassessing this with further playthroughs, but for now this is where my guts tells me to put them.

 

D Tier: A Bad Class

Radiant Dawn: This game harms horses a lot, and the one bow knight got hit particularly hard by the nerf bat. Terrible stat caps that keep them from being end game viable, abysmal availability, and the paragon skill that helped keep her afloat can now be taken off her for better use elsewhere. Even when she is available, the garbage enemy phase makes her rather bad, and while hitting third tier fixes that a little with lance access, Astrid is still terrible in this game.

Blazing Blade: Much as I like Rath, this is a game all about enemy phase, and even when promoted he only has access to the two worst weapon types for enemy phasing. He does have the small boon of having Brave Bow access if you skip Lyn mode, but I don't think that tiny niche is enough to get him out of D rank here.

Thracia 776:  Much as I have gone out of my way to use a bow unit every run for funsies, bow knights included, they are really bad in this game. While being mounted does have some benefits, being unable to capture thanks to 2 range only removes one of those boons, and it also means a stat debuff on indoor maps, although they also get the mixed blessing of keeping only bows when dismounted.

Awakening: I don't see how this class would appeal much more than Sniper in the grand scheme of things in an Awakening playthrough, although the comments about bow use having niche value on Lunatic+ does make me consider putting both of them up a tier... I am still considering it, but overall feel I don't have the experience of the mode to truly judge its utility.

Sacred Stones: Its the worst promotion option for a unit that is fairly good in one mode, and the better promotion path for a unit that is garbage in both. Really it has the same issues Rath ends up having in Blazing Blade, this game is all about enemy phase, and it only gets the two weapon types that are bad at enemy phasing...

 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1. Echoes. Take everything I said about Snipers in this game, and add three extra move. That's it. They have absurd attacking range, amd can one-shot most enemies with Hunter's Volley. The innate Archers are held back by their stats, but anyone Pitchfork'd or Dread Fighter Loop'd into this class will be golden.

2. FE6. Bows are useful against the plentiful flying threats, and Swords ain't even bad here. Shin is a dynamo on Hard Mode, while Sue and Dayan have their uses. Not taking anti-cavalry damage is nice, too.

3. Fates. Are we counting Outlaws here? If so, getting a raw movement +1 is nice, as is giving it via Pair-Up. Anyway, as for the promotion: there are a lot of good Bows in the game, and they're some of the better options for taking down enemy Ninjas. Niles, Nina, and the Mercs can all do pretty well in the class.

4. Three Houses. It occupies a very different spot from Sniper in this game - more mobility, more attack range, but no Hunter's Volley. It's probably the best class for Cyril and Leonie, since they have Point-Blank Volley, but I understand the "just go wyvern lol" argument. Also an option for "long-range Encloser" on Bernie and Claude. I've found that some units in this class have Speed issues, so a Brave Bow (or the Inexhaustible) is certainly a solid bring.

5. Genealogy. It's "Horse Emblem", so they're gonna be great here, right? ...Eh, yes and no. They have great mobility and attack range, but no melee option, giving them no EP action against foes without ranged attacks. Mainline Bows have kinda wack stats, too. Still, Midir - and later, Lester or Dimna - can use two-thirds of the "Holy Trinity", in the Killer and Brave Bows. They'll be fairly strong with either of these, even if there's a bit of competition with their infantry brethren, who tend to have better raw combat.

6. Path of Radiance. Astrid joins midgame, at level 1, with middling stats - what's not to love? But with Paragon and the Knight Ward, she can make up for it. Bows aren't especially good in this game, but Mounted units prevail, so they kinda balance out. Bows are also default on Geoffrey, and the choice for Triangle Attack shenanigans on Oscar. So Bows bad, but Knights good.

7. Shadow Dragon. Wolf and Sedgar are very cool units... who also tend to get reclassed. I personally favor them in General or Hero. So, should they count toward Horseman as a class? Eh, hard to say. Still, Hunter > Archer any day of the week, whether it's Castor or a reclassed Axe Bro.

8. FE7. Another game where you only get one, in Rath. But he's pretty good, all told. He's not around much in Lyn's Story, and when he rejoins in the main game, he seems weak, right? But I guess he can use the Brave Bow if you killed him off, and there's little competition for the Orion's Bolt. Finally, he's got the best mobility of any grounded units. Why are nomadic horses so good at moving through forests? They're from a country with almost no forests! It provides very little benefit in intertribal warfare! But I digress. Rath not bad.

9. Sacred Stones. Bows are better than in the last game, so why isn't this higher? Well, they robbed my boy. 7 move on Ranger, versus 8 on Nomad Trooper. Also I believe they have typical cavalry Forest costs, but don't quote me on that. It's still a decent enough choice for Gerik, and objectively the right call for Neimi. Just not a great class overall.

10. Awakening. I remember very little of Bow Knight in this game. Your Mercenaries almost certainly prefer Hero, to get Hand Axes and Sol. It makes sense for Virion, but Virion doesn't make much sense to use in the first place. Noire can use it too, but she may just be better reclassed into Dark Mage. I guess the movement is to its credit...

11. Radiant Dawn. Astrid bad. If they had made Fiona a Bow Knight as well, I could laugh twice as hard at how miserable thiz class is. Oscar and Geoffrey can use Bows after promoting, but how often are they actually gonna? Plus, while super-Canto is still a thing, RD does a lot to make their maps cavalry-unfriendly. Like, the "best" Part IV route for cavalry is the Hawk Army, and even that one is still teeming with Swamps and Tall Grass.

[ping]

I'd just like to point out again that Rath does not have a particularly hard time reaching B bows before the end of chapter 10 if you do play Lyn Mode. It takes 50 WEXP to do so, and Rath gains 4 when he attacks, doubles, but does not kill an enemy with his Short Bow. If he doubles and kills, he gains 6.

If you're LTC-ing Lyn Mode - sure, Rath won't get far towards B bows. But if you're playing it "normally", it's not a big investment to feed him some weapon experience, even if you're focusing on other units.

[Shadow Mir]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:35 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

As far as I know he's the only unit made weaker if you choose to play Lyn Mode. Pro tip: If you want the slightly stronger Rath, get him killed. He will return with better stats later. I have to assume however that not every player is aware of the trick, and every player has to do the first playthrough w/Lyn Mode, so Rath's shortcomings are going to still realistically come up more often than not.

The question is, are these supposedly better bases really that much better as to be worth it...? I'm not sure.

17 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Shadow Dragon:  Bows are not the most common effective damage type in this game, but it is still forgable effective damage in SD. I am very tempted to drop this down into D tier despite that, as both Warrior, and General are better promoted bow classes

Care to explain on Warrior? Because I'm of the mind that Warrior sucks in the DS games on account of being overshadowed by other classes.

Anyways...

• C tier in Mystery. Aside from the fact that Sniper has much better promotion gains, Horsemen lose their one advantage over them in indoors maps.
• B tier in Binding Blade. Bows are very useful against the many wvyerns you see in the game, and it helps that javelins and hand axes SUCK. While Sue and Shin are both pretty good, the issue is that using them a lot means heading to Sacae, and the Sacae maps are some of the worst designed maps in Binding Blade...
• D tier in Blazing Blade. Blah blah blah, enemy phase centric game.
• A tier in Path of Radiance. Mounted units are excellent in Radiance, and while she starts off underleveled, Astrid can quickly catch up with Paragon (which even works with BEXP). Shinon and Rolf sucking really badly means that she pretty much as a monopoly on any special bows you get (except the Longbow and Double bow, which suck anyway).
• D tier in Radiant Dawn. After their dominance in Radiance, Dawn responded by gutting cavalry units HARD. Astrid in particular is just a shell of her former self... and that's before the part where her innate Paragon can be removed from her and given to someone else, let alone her wonky availability. Ironically, she and Fiona are the only cavalry units with a good speed cap...

Abstain on Echoes (for much the same reason why I abstained on talking about Sniper there - that being the whole debacle about Hunter's Volley, and it being FAQ bait).

Edited April 10, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Eltosian Kadath]

53 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Care to explain on Warrior? Because I'm of the mind that Warrior sucks in the DS games on account of being overshadowed by other classes.

Warrior has higher base Strength with the same base Speed, plus Axe is a better secondary weapon type than Swords due to the innumerable lance wielder later into the game. Really I am more pointing out how bad Bow Knight is.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Care to explain on Warrior? Because I'm of the mind that Warrior sucks in the DS games on account of being overshadowed by other classes.

Normally I'd dismiss this as you disliking axe classes, but... in one of the other threads you were going to bat for SD Berserker. Warrior is basically Berserker with +1 speed and bows in exchange for losing the +10 crit, a trade I'll take any day given how SD has no way to get crits anywhere near reliability. Both classes even have the same axe rank, surprisingly. I don't see how you can defend Berserker and then say Warrior sucks.

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Warrior has higher base Strength with the same base Speed, plus Axe is a better secondary weapon type than Swords due to the innumerable lance wielder later into the game. Really I am more pointing out how bad Bow Knight is.

Eh, the base Strength advantage is only +1, and I'd say +2 move is a lot more significant than that, personally. It's obviously fair to side with axes over swords, for all that for me at least I doubt i'd consider the gap that wide.

[Shadow Mir]

6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Normally I'd dismiss this as you disliking axe classes, but... in one of the other threads you were going to bat for SD Berserker. Warrior is basically Berserker with +1 speed and bows in exchange for losing the +10 crit, a trade I'll take any day given how SD has no way to get crits anywhere near reliability. Both classes even have the same axe rank, surprisingly. I don't see how you can defend Berserker and then say Warrior sucks.

The thing is, Warrior in the DS games is a Master of None; it's not as good a bow user as Sniper, and the other axe classes have better offerings, too. The result is that Warrior just doesn't have much going for it to justify its use.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

The thing is, Warrior in the DS games is a Master of None; it's not as good a bow user as Sniper, and the other axe classes have better offerings, too. The result is that Warrior just doesn't have much going for it to justify its use.

SD Berserker certainly does not have better offerings, as I already outlined.

If you meant Hero and Dracoknight for axe-users, or even New Mystery Berserker, then, yeah, sure, I'll agree to that. I'm not gonna defend Warrior too much, I certainly barely used it myself.

[Whisky]

On 4/8/2023 at 6:35 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I don't like Rath. As far as I know he's the only unit made weaker if you choose to play Lyn Mode.

There’s also Wallace. If you skip LM he has higher stats as a General than he would as an insta promoted General from LM. Sure you could grind him up there, but that’s grinding. His stats start higher for free if you skip LM.

-

And I have to say, I like seeing the love for Bow Knights in 3H. I know a lot of people consider Sniper better and think that Bow Knights aren’t worth it for most units. But I think Bow Knight is competitive. It’s very versatile and has good utility.

[Jotari]

On 4/9/2023 at 9:35 AM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

.

1. Path of Radiance: It's iffy to say that Astrid is a "different class" from cavalier, but she is stuck with bows until promotion. Really obnoxious to recruit on first turn and does pitiful damage at her join time, but paragon helps her catch up. Even bonus exp counts double for her. She's not an essential unit to raise, but it's a fun project. In a game with canto, she's fine just dealing chip damage and moving back behind your wall of units. And since the other two archers aren't particularly good, that's a lot of good bows she gets to use that would otherwise take up space in your Convoy. My only problem with Astrid is her support list is pretty bad

Hey, there's Geoffrey too, who can use bows from base and is pretty good...you're not going to use bows with him, but you can.