Fire Emblem 12 ~Heroes~ Translation Project

[Arch]

I didn't make you do anything, lol. Don't try to pin it on me now that the community's outraeg machine is starting up .

Edited August 16, 2011 by Arch

[Tryhard]

If this is the "outraeg machine," then so far I'm disappointed. ;_;

[Arch]

Well, it's just starting up. We still have to get dondon in here, Celice, and a few others and then the machine's shitstorm generation will be at full capacity.

[Nintenlord]

Anyone wanna buy extra strong umbrellae? Only 99,99$ a piece, a bargain in a literally shitty weather.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Nintenlord

[VincentASM]

MALICIA? WTF guys?

That's it, I'm ragequitting. I only joined this translation project because I wanted to use Malliesia and the Binding Shield, but looks like that snuck under the radar : D

Let's not mention that I've pretty much finished my job with the menus and you won't be missing out on much.

[spoiler=!?]Okay okay, I'll stick around. Just in case anybody tries touching Katarina.

Edited August 16, 2011 by VincentASM

[Rewjeo]

Why do people have an issue with Malicia? I like it more than Malliesia. They're, pronounced pretty much the same, too.

Not to me. Mal-ih-shuh vs. Mal-ee-zhuh. Is the katakana Marisha? If you were to change from Malliesia (or Malesia, or some other simplification) I would say change it to Melissa, which is the closest actual English name I can think of. Honestly, the biggest problem I have with Malicia is that it looks so different to what I'm used to, and it just doesn't feel like the same character. I don't see Caeda when I look at her portrait, I see Sheeda, for example. Even if it WAS changed to Malicia, I would always see her face as Malliesia. Also, Malicia is very, very close to Malicious. Except she's a healer. Meanwhile, we have Maris and the word Malice is so much better to describe her than Malliesia.

[Tryhard]

Not to me. Mal-ih-shuh vs. Mal-ee-zhuh.

I'm pretty sure neither of them are pronounced that way.

Dun dun dun. Maris? NO WAI!

Edited August 16, 2011 by Kelsper

[Rewjeo]

How else? Mal-is-ee-uh? What IS the romaji for her name? Marisha or Marishia? Or something else?

[shadowofchaos]

Well, it's just starting up. We still have to get dondon in here, Celice, and a few others and then the machine's shitstorm generation will be at full capacity.

This shall be glorious.

MALICIA? WTF guys?

That's it, I'm ragequitting. I only joined this translation project because I wanted to use Malliesia and the Binding Shield, but looks like that snuck under the radar : D

Let's not mention that I've pretty much finished my job with the menus and you won't be missing out on much.

[spoiler=!?]Okay okay, I'll stick around. Just in case anybody tries touching Katarina.

You and your Mahou Shoujo.

Honestly... people getting over this just for spelling?

I'm willing to bet a majority of the community just simply don't care and just want their damn script. I mean taking suggestions is fine and all, but you guys can just freaking decide to do whatever you want. They can just deal if they don't like it.

However, even the fact that you guys can't agree? >_>;

I'm completely fine with either way... Arch isn't afraid to change around the names for "localization" sake... I'm okay with that...

But even he said that you guys were translating names and just changing spelling to fit. It's the willingness to say "screw them" about the name decisions is basically gonna get this done. There's a time for being nice, but honestly, with all the drama that's going on put, the suggestions on hold and open it up again when people calm down?

Then there's the shitstorm people the people who have been around in the FE community and have attachments to the other translation patch names...

And honestly, the names are kinda... bleh.

Japanese Kana is built in with Ambiguity. I mean the official spelling for "Ray" in FE6 is the Welsh "Lleu", but no one their right mind would come up with "Lleu" from レイ.

And people go off re-editing the Wikia with "Ray" just because of said translation patch. And they have to revert the changes.

... Man, if the fans can't even decide how to localize FE12 names, what the hell is the hope for a new FE outside Japan then?

I'm pretty sure neither of them are pronounced that way.

Dun dun dun. Maris? NO WAI!

Hey, that's a name of a school I know. XD

Edited August 16, 2011 by shadowofkitty

[Celice]

It's hard to call it a name improvement if the vast majority of people disagree with it. Malicia (the only one I disagree with so far) being used obviously has nothing to do with making this patch as good as it can be, given that it is being used for entertainment purposes and people would be more entertained with Malliesia (or whatever it's spelling is, I think something like Malesia is better).

I'm planning on importing this, anyways, so I haven't been whining before (at least not that I remember) but this "BLARG NO WHINING SCREW YOU WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS CHANGE JUST TO SPITE OUR CUSTOMERS" thing is making me. Sorta reminds me of what Nintendo did

It's mostly an ego-manifestation. It's not uncommon with two of the people on this project.

The problem is that localization has been unfairly conflated with bowdlerization for quite some time. There's nothing wrong with taking a few liberties with a story written in Japanese in order to make it shine in English; it's just that the most famous (or infamous) cases tend to be the gruesome Saturday Morning hackjobs 4Kids is known for.

Me' date=' I wouldn't have minded "Joey Wheeler" and whatnot if they could've been trusted to [i']get the damn story right.[/i] >_<#

(Ryusui@romhacking.net)

There's deliberate attempt to deviate for the sake of deviation, rather than apt translation. That's all.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Celice

[Arch]

Yup, improving character names in a translation makes me feel so mighty, powerful and better than everyone. Yup, yup, yup.

[FionordeQuester]

How's this Luffy?

The thing that bugs me is that you go to the trouble to make a poll after a number of people addressed concerns, and then had that poll overwhelmingly oppose your decision, and then decide "screw you anyway, it's not my fault you didn't perform hours of excruciating and previously thought impossible work without any tools first" after the smoke has finally cleared.

And as a side note, the last paragraph really doesn't sit well with me. Other people pushing for a name (the majority of which disagree with you and your translation) doesn't actually slow anything you do down. If it's as simple as you say to change a name, then there's no reason to just be a stubborn douche about it. If you're doing something for the community, I can't imagine why you would then turn around and take that away from us when we disagree with what ends up being a minor change. I get that "the customer is always right" isn't exactly an adage when you're doing something for free, but "the customer is always wrong" is just as bad.

Bottom line is, there's a perfectly acceptable set of translations that apparently everyone but you agrees with, and when you're trying to do something to serve the community, telling them off in such a harsh manner is just in poor taste. No matter what you come out with, people are going to use it, simply because it's always preferable to see English than Japanese unless you're one of the blessed few that actually reads it. That doesn't mean you should shove that in our faces just because you feel like it.

How's that Luffy? Can you take it seriously now? I can't say whether or not I agree with it (if you really did give them a poll, only to ignore the results of the poll, then I can see why they would be mad, though I don't know all the facts), but, here you go.

Edited August 16, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[Arch]

While I don't necessarily agree with the fiery rhetoric in Blazer's post, it defends the right we have to make decisions. These public polls are not always a final decision, sometimes they are simply a measure of public opinion. We decided that, even after seeing public support say otherwise, that we were going to stick to our guns and go with Malicia.

Anyways, there's quite a gap between the reality of our actions and the fantasy these hardcore traditionalists portray. In reality, we are one of the most open translation projects to exist, and one that prides itself on being connected to the fan-base. Sometimes we're going to make decisions that irritate those fans, but ultimately the work is done on their behalf. If we change names, it's because we want to provide a better set of names for a more official translation. Whether people are "comfortable" with an old set of names is irrelevant, they will adjust. Ya know, the same way we adjusted when Lawrence became Lorenz, when Asseray became Artur, Wayu became Mia, Brad became Aran, and so on and so forth. Think of it as an update. We do nothing out of "spite," and nothing deliberately to irritate fans. Any changes made are done for the sake of improving a set of old names that, as the FE3 translator himself said, were half-baked.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Arch

[FionordeQuester]

Well, guess I can't argue with that. You guys go and do your thing, ok?

[dondon151]

You'd also have to try pretty hard to find a 'Sheema' in western culture (it's a Hindi name), and part of the translation process is adapting the terminology to suit the new language/audience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shima

It also has the possibility of being a Persian or Japanese name.

[Arch]

You address the point that it wouldn't be a name that would register with English-speaking audiences by asserting that it is a Persian or Japanese name?

[dondon151]

In case you didn't pick up on the subtle implication of my post, it was contesting your extremely confident assertion that Sheema is a Hindi name by bringing up another possible origin that you, nor anyone else, had thought of (in addition to an alternate spelling that will probably be more acceptable to the fanbase).

A large subset of FE names are somewhat commonly used in English. For the ones that aren't, you can't just attribute them to an origin that appears convenient and then portray that to be the canon truth. In which case... what's wrong with using what's already established?

Edited August 16, 2011 by dondon151

[Rewjeo]

Again, I have to ask: How is a name better if people dislike it, or at least like it less than another one? As subjective as the word "better" is, I think that it's fairly safe to say that, in this circumstance, whatever people enjoy the most is "better" since this is being translated so as to entertain people. Clearly I think differently than you, though. So how IS a name better if people don't like it?

[Arch]

I picked up the "subtle" implication (I don't see how it's subtle in sense of the word, but I'll let you label it as you like). Doesn't really change anything, though, and it certainly doesn't address the point that you quoted.

[FionordeQuester]

Again, I have to ask: How is a name better if people dislike it, or at least like it less than another one?

I think the problem is, you're only looking at it from your own perspective. You're not considering people like me, who have never played FE12 because they don't want to play it in Japanese, but in English (I myself was really looking forward to reading a localization with the writing talent that did FE11, but it seems that may not happen). A translation should be one that appeals to EVERYONE, not just the few people who played FE12.

Edited August 16, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[Rewjeo]

There was a poll. If Malicia had overwhelmingly won, then I'd (grudgingly) accept it. The thing is, people don't like Malicia, so the translation team shouldn't use it seeing as they're doing this for people to enjoy the game. It doesn't serve to alienate the people you're trying to make something for.

Further, I don't see how Malica/Malesia has anything to do with having played FE12 already.

[Arch]

Rewjeo, I see it like this. A "better" name is more aesthetically pleasing, relevant to the game's new language (or at least registers with it), and sounds like something we'd actually call a person. There's the really loud minority of people like yourself, I like to call you guys the "outraeg machine." You guys are "comfortable" with a set of names, and that's fine. But we shouldn't be forced to cater to the really loud minority when there's a silent majority that wants us to do our jobs well, make improvements, and do a professional-grade translation for FE12.

[dondon151]

Since I hadn't a chance to glance at this earlier:

Go eat a sandwich, and then look in the mirror so you can see how ridiculous some of the names you're trying to have in the game are.

How less ridiculous are your translations?

You arguing just slows down this translation, wastes my time, makes me want to stop for a few months, and makes me NOT want to use your suggestion, even if it's legitimate (although we wouldn't argue in the first place if it were legitimate).

How more legitimate are your translations?

The entire post reeks of childish impulse. Perhaps we would be satisfied if we were provided exceedingly sound reason for these stubborn changes, but you really are going about this argument in a completely wrong manner.

A "better" name is more aesthetically pleasing, relevant to the game's new language (or at least registers with it), and sounds like something we'd actually call a person. There's the really loud minority of people like yourself, I like to call you guys the "outraeg machine."

This "really loud minority" is, in all likelihood, simply an indication that the concepts of "aesthetically pleasing" and "something we'd actually call a person" (in a fantasy game, no less) are entirely subjective.

Edited August 16, 2011 by dondon151

[The Blind Archer]

The thing is, people don't like Malicia

If I may play devil's advocate, how many people? When there's a poll, most folks tend to just click and leave without posting any real input. In this topic, there's not even a handful of Serenes' active memberbase being vocal about the name change. What about the silent majority? Are the automatically opposed because they don't say anything?

[Arch]

The guy who argued tooth-and-nail against changing two letters in Claine's name (a change that produced the same sound and could be derived from the kana) is now condemning someone for ridiculousness and childish impulses. This fandom is rich with characters.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Arch