General Banzai Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Well my confusion is mostly "What approach did they Shadow Dragon"? The dialogue was exactly the same as every other FE, except less of it because it was a game originally from 1990. That isn't true whatsoever. You should go to Serenes and re-read the whole script; since it is rather short should only take a halfhour or so. The dialogue is crisper, wittier; there's more wordplay, there's more color, and the game is far less stiff than many of the other FEs. Since a lot less is shown onscreen, they also partake in vivid descriptions of what's happening or what has happened; see Nyna's speech about her kin being killed and hung from the castle or the pre-battle intros describing Michaelis's army or the Wooden Cavalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Another example: FE3 Book 1: Julian:Hurry, Miss Rena! If you aren’t quick, we’ll both be finished. I heard the Aritian knights have arrived towards the south. Now’s our chance to escape. Please hang on, you can do it! Rena: I’m sorry... But, I still haven’t found my precious Relive staff... Julian! Forget about me and flee yourself! If it’s just you, I can teleport you away to safety with my Warp staff. Julian: How is that going to help? Don’t you understand why I betrayed them in the first place? ...Anyway. I will find that staff later. For now, let’s just make our escape! Hurry! Go!! Localized FE11: Julian:Hey, c'mon, Lena, shake a leg! We need to get out of the Teeth, and we need to do it yesterday! Rumor has it the knights of Altea are at the foot of the mountain. We won't get a better chance. It's just a little bit farther. Stick with me. Lena: Julian, I'm sorry...but I left my Mend staff back there. It's very precious to me...You go on ahead...Save yourself! Here, I could use this Warp staff to send you someplace safe- Julian: Uh-uh, honey. No can do. I didn't betray my boys back there so you could zap me on out of here alone. Forget the staff; I'll come back later and get it for you myself. All right? Right now though, I need you to RUN. Tick-tack, now move that frock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 FYI I thınk we're goıng to stıck to what the game has ın Japanese, for the most part. AKA translatıon over localızatıon, I thınk, when ıt comes to dıalog. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) I don't think we've actually internally decided on the whole translation vs. localization debate, so nobody from the team should be making declarative statements. But, from what it seems, Vincent and I are in favor of localization over direct translation. I personally feel like it's important to preserve the original intent; but translating isn't just a matter of transferring the words from one language to another. The Japanese and English languages share no roots, no common basis. Localizing is the process of adapting the story to a new language. I feel like a lot of things, like character in dialogue, can be lost in the language conversions. Then again, overly emphasizing localizing can also harm information (as FE10 showed us, by changing story elements in localization). There's a fine like we have to walk, but just focusing on translation is like cutting out half of the process :\. Edited August 7, 2011 by Arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 That's what we did with the prologue and that's what makes the most sense to me as well as what Snow seems to want... I personally don't think we have the skill to localize anything. We're just a bunch of fans. You and I don't even know Japanese, Arch, so we definitely don't have that privilege, the way I see it, even if we are decent writers. :/ But we should probably take this to the prıvate forum. XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gloomtail93 Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Sorry to change the subject (I loved Shadow Dragon's script as well, so I vote for quality like that, but I'll take what I can get) but when there be a round 2 on mallesia's name? Sorry for being impatient, just curious X_X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Sorry to change the subject (I loved Shadow Dragon's script as well, so I vote for quality like that, but I'll take what I can get) but when there be a round 2 on mallesia's name? Sorry for being impatient, just curious X_X That's no problem, this thread is for all kind of crazy talk about the fan translation : P To be honest, I'm actually not sure right now whether to make a round 2 poll or not. Although I guess it can't hurt to make it. If it is made, it should be added soon or, at worst, within 4 days. @Luffy I wouldn't worry too much about IMO. You can always get somebody who does know Japanese to go over the localised script. If Snow isn't burnt out after finishing the translation, maybe you could ask him. Or if all else fails, I suppose I could do the job. But yeah, I think we should continue the discussion and confirm the details elsewhere ; ) Edited August 7, 2011 by VincentASM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 The only problem with two-rounding things is you get votes you wouldn't have otherwise gotten. You sort of filter your results--the choices available are limited by the choices preceding it. This gets you sort-of rigged results, because these votes spent on losing names can now be spent on the names that otherwise would not have been chosen. This can lead to a wrongful impression that one name is desired more than the other (especially in polls where it's pretty neck-and-neck before a second round). Granted, people don't have to vote for a name they wouldn't have chosen in the first place, but people like seeing their input take place in a poll, for one reason or another even if they disagree with their own input There's a fine like we have to walk, but just focusing on translation is like cutting out half of the process :\. A more important perspective is to actually question where a little bit of more content would be helpful--and where you might just be thinking to yourself, I'd prefer it a different way. There's, This conversation seems abrupt and useless, and then there's, I want to feel like I had a part in making this story better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiddo Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Hey, may I ask a few questions? 1) In relation to the BSFE maps, how do the scripts on those compare to the transcripts which I attempted translating back in the BSFE thread? If they're similar, are the differences obvious rewrites or simply things that could be from a "more correct" transcript? I'm trying to see here if I could use the transcript in the DS ROM as a basis for a revision/rewrite based on Shadow Dragon characterization, or if it'd just need to be retranslated from the ground up. 2) If going down the "localization" route, what would be examples of things which would "need" the "Woolsey" treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) I would guess probably changing any lines of dialouge where Marth comes off as overly naive/emotional/incompetent, while he's in the process of commanding over an army. Perhaps also changing the lines of various characters that come off as stereotypical archetypes that we've seen thousands of times in the series AND done better in other games. Or, maybe even study places where the Shadow Dragon translators gave the "Woosley Treatment" and make changes in similar places. These are the things that come to my mind, can't really say much more than that until I've actually read the script. Edited August 11, 2011 by FionordeQuester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I'm sorry, but I don't have the answers to your questions. ...I guess it's kind of that simple >_> Maybe Vincent or Arch does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 I haven't really read the FE12 BSFE scripts in depth, so I can't answer that question yet. I did notice a few obvious changes like Nyna's father being missing from Episode 1, probably because they were too lazy to do his portrait or CG : P I'm not sure about Arch, but I'd rather not comment about our direction of localisation before we've discussed it in depth. In case you're wondering why there's been a delay, a few of our team members (including me) have been busy with real life recently. Meanwhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) Well, I just looked at the Prologue, and I suppose that if I were to attempt this, I would reword it this way... Prologue-Original Dialogue: After five long years, the great war with the Dohlr Empire, which caused much suffering and was later called the War of Darkness, ended with the defeat of the Earth Dragon Medius. The warriors who had gathered under the Fire Emblem returned to their homelands, and, to restore the lands from devastation, used up much strength. Among the countries that once made up the seven Kingdoms of Akaneia, Gra and Grunia were ruined. Aritia, Orleans, Macedonia and Talis were also deeply scarred. Even the grand Kingdom of Akaneia was undergoing restoration. Then, at the royal capital Pales, which was still shaken by the war, an important event occurred with King Orleans’s younger brother, Hardin’s marriage to Princess Nina and his ascension as the 24th King of Akaneia. And so, after becoming king, Hardin, although seemingly reluctant, instantly restored the country. He gathered many soldiers to create a powerful army. Following that, he announced the restoration of the Holy Empire of Akaneia, and declared himself Emperor. One year after the end of the war with Durhua, the world seems to be entering a state of peace. But the wheels of fate appear to have an fault. Prologue-My Dialogue: After five long years, the War of Darkness ended with the defeat of the Earth Dragon King Medius. The devastation that had scarred every land under the grand Kingdom of Akaneia was great, and so, Marth and all who had followed him worked ceaselessly to restore their fallen homelands. It was then, at the royal capital of Pales, that the valiant Hardain, brother to the deceased King Orleans, married Princess Nina and rose to be Akaneia's 24th King. Though nervousness filled his heart, he instantly rose to the occasion to restore the war shaken country. Declaring himself Emperor, he assembled a powerful army, and the people enjoyed a new year of peace and prosperity within the Holy Empire of Akaneia. No one could have foreseen the veil of darkness that was to descend upon the land.... That's just something I whipped up in about 10-20 minutes. I decided to just call the war "The War of Darkness" because it seemed like such a better name. Yeah, I threw "valiant" into Hardain's description because I just thought it would create a stronger picture into the readers mind of just who was becoming an emperor, rather than him coming off as just some guy called Hardain. Two changes I'm not really sure of is adding "prosperity" to the description, as prosperity implies that the land had more or less healed itself, which to me seems unlikely to occur so fast only a year after such a gigantic war. And as for the ending line, even though I think it's better than the awkwardly written line of "the wheels of fate had a fault", I feel as though it might be a little heavy handed considering that it's almost kind of a spoiler as to what's going to happen in the story. Also, as you can see, I've condensed the dialogue to the point of eliminating two whole lines of dialogue, so I'm wondering if that gap should be filled with a brief introduction to the world of this game, as such an introduction is lacking in the original Prologue dialogue. And even though that worked for that game, since it was packaged with the first Fire Emblem, this is a standalone game, so it's not going to work this time. This of course, is assuming that we didn't have such an introduction in the new Prologue chapters found in this remake. Edited August 12, 2011 by FionordeQuester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Nagato is a bro. He's always been a great hacker in the translation community. I may have to thank him personally for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Hmm? Actually, I'm the one who wrote this dialogue if that's what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I was talking about Fast forward to today, I can now safely proclaim that all (major) issues with the lowercase symbols missing from dialogue have been fully resolved, all thanks to the expert advice of Nagato, a skilled hacker who's currently working on the Nanashi no Game fan translation. from the link in Vincent's post. I'm not sure where the confusion came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 (edited) Ah, I see. I missed that. I guess we were thinking of completely different things. Edited August 12, 2011 by FionordeQuester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Nagato is a bro. He's always been a great hacker in the translation community. I may have to thank him personally for this one. That he is. Didn't know he worked on Nanashi no Game. Gotta give that a try sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Well, I just looked at the Prologue, and I suppose that if I were to attempt this, I would reword it this way... Prologue-Original Dialogue: Prologue-My Dialogue: That's just something I whipped up in about 10-20 minutes. I decided to just call the war "The War of Darkness" because it seemed like such a better name. Yeah, I threw "valiant" into Hardain's description because I just thought it would create a stronger picture into the readers mind of just who was becoming an emperor, rather than him coming off as just some guy called Hardain. Two changes I'm not really sure of is adding "prosperity" to the description, as prosperity implies that the land had more or less healed itself, which to me seems unlikely to occur so fast only a year after such a gigantic war. And as for the ending line, even though I think it's better than the awkwardly written line of "the wheels of fate had a fault", I feel as though it might be a little heavy handed considering that it's almost kind of a spoiler as to what's going to happen in the story. Also, as you can see, I've condensed the dialogue to the point of eliminating two whole lines of dialogue, so I'm wondering if that gap should be filled with a brief introduction to the world of this game, as such an introduction is lacking in the original Prologue dialogue. And even though that worked for that game, since it was packaged with the first Fire Emblem, this is a standalone game, so it's not going to work this time. This of course, is assuming that we didn't have such an introduction in the new Prologue chapters found in this remake. Your version definitely still needs work. Some of the sentences (especially the second and third) are too stringy and indirect, making them weaker. "With nervousness in his heart" is also pretty poorly done and seems unnatural. Also, use "war torn" instead of "war shaken". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Every version needs work, when you throw in perspective :P but I think he conveyed his point adequately enough despite its alleged flaws, e.g. the poorly worded phrase "With nervousness in his heart"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Every version needs work, when you throw in perspective :P but I think he conveyed his point adequately enough despite its alleged flaws, e.g. the poorly worded phrase "With nervousness in his heart"... Why settle at "good enough" when that paragraph could easily be edited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Banzai has a point. I'll have to do better from here on out. But, what do you think would be a suitable replacement for "With nervousness in his heart?" How about "though initially reluctant"? That's probably what I should've gone with to begin with. EDIT: Also, after rereading what I wrote, I discovered another flaw. I used the word "rose" twice in rapid succession, first when Hardain "rose" to the throne and then when he "rose" to the occasion. Whoops, I guess that's why the call em' "first drafts" huh? :\ Edited August 13, 2011 by FionordeQuester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Alright, how's this? This time, I managed to work in the backstory to the first game as well as this one... Original Dialouge-After five long years, the great war with the Durhua Empire, which caused much suffering and was later called the War of Darkness, ended with the defeat of the Earth Dragon Medius. The warriors who had gathered under the Fire Emblem returned to their homelands, and, to restore the lands from devastation, used up much strength. Among the countries that once made up the seven Kingdoms of Akaneia, Gra and Grunia were ruined. Aritia, Orleans, Macedonia and Talis were also deeply scarred. Even the grand Kingdom of Akaneia was undergoing restoration. Then, at the royal capital Pales, which was still shaken by the war, an important event occurred with King Orleans’s younger brother, Hardin’s marriage to Princess Nina and his ascension as the 24th King of Akaneia. And so, after becoming king, Hardin, although seemingly reluctant, instantly restored the country. He gathered many soldiers to create a powerful army. Following that, he announced the restoration of the Holy Empire of Akaneia, and declared himself Emperor. One year after the end of the war with Durhua, the world seems to be entering a state of peace. But the wheels of fate appear to have an fault. Revised Dialogue-Long ago, there was a fierce battle waged between Anri, noble warrior of the Altea region, and Medeus, vile king of the Dragonkin. But though Anri tore Medeus asunder, the avaricious Bishop Gharnef rose after a century's passing and resurrected Medeus, striking with him an unholy pact to dominate the land. All seemed lost, until a new champion, Marth, took up Anri's divine blade and formed an army, the Akaneian League, to slay Medeus once again after five years of bloodshed. The citizens were grieved however, for who could find joy in a land who's kingdom lay in ruin? It was then, at the royal capital of Pales, that Princess Nyna offered her hand in marriage to Commander Hardin, her closest confidant, and brother of Akaneia's former king. Though initially reluctant, Hardin could not ignore the plight of those toiling to restore their devastated homelands, and so, he took Nyna to be his wife and restored the country to it's former glory. Hardin then declared himself Emperor and assembled a powerful army to protect his people, who enjoyed a new year of peace and prosperity under the Holy Empire of Akaneia. Little did they know the horror that was to come... I'll be honest, half of the challenge was simply condensing both the dialouge AND the backstory not included in the original translation enough that it was still about as long it originally was without losing anything important. Also, for those of you who think it's a bit awkward that it was Nyna who proposed marriage well, that's the way it went down according to the translators for Shadow Dragon, so I decided to just roll with it, since I'm sort of trying to imitate what Shadow Dragon did. EDIT: I've changed this up quite a bit since then. Although, for some reason, even though it looks good to me, I can't help but feel that I might've changed something important... Edited August 16, 2011 by FionordeQuester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 It's not like I'm going to be using the script, I really don't care all that much. Maybe someone who cares more can make it better... *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionordeQuester Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Eh, whatever, I didn't figure you would anyways, I just sort of did this for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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