Fire Emblem 12 ~Heroes~ Translation Project

[Darros]

The word Shadow looks smushed, but hey, it's in english, and that's all I care about.

[Celice]

Actually, the logo of their team is in English. It's not really a title screen.

All that screen shows is that they got a new image in there, that wasn't there originally, showing that their group is working on the game :/

[Rewjeo]

I thought the romaji was KurainE, not just Kurain?

[eclipse]

Why couldn't you take it seriously if you saw "Aina?"

Disclaimer: If you don't have Unicode, this won't look right.

I'm in Hawaii, and ‘āina means "land". It's also part of a place name here, and it's usually spelled without the ‘okina (can't get this one to display right, so this is the closest I can do) or kahakō (in this case, Aina Haina).

I'd find it kinda awkward. . .but seeing as I'm probably in a very tiny minority. . .

Edited August 6, 2011 by Clipseykitty

[General Banzai]

Question, do you guys plan on taking liberties with the script the way Fire Emblem translators sometimes did such as in Shadow Dragon and Radiance Dawn? Or is this going to be a mainly literal translation?

The best translations take liberties. You can't just carbon copy something from one language to another and expect it to have the same effect on the reader. There are two different cultures at work here. Not only that, but Japanese players are likely quite well-acquainted with FE3; the remake seems to have been created because FE3 is the favorite of the Japanese (while FE4 seems to be the favorite of the Americans).

So we've not only got a linguistics barrier, but a cultural barrier, and also a barrier of perspective on the game.

The difference between an amateur translation and a professional translation is that amateurs take only the linguistics barrier into account; professionals take all the barriers into account.

[FionordeQuester]

Really? Wonderful! I agree with you completely! I always really dislike the overly literal translations that many fan translators come out with, mainly because of how awkward the dialouge comes off in those kinds of translations. So I'm glad you guys aren't going the same route. So, do you guys also plan to imitate the really verbose style of the Shadow Dragon translation? I really liked that writing style and the way the dialouge was written.

Edited August 6, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[General Banzai]

Really? Wonderful! I agree with you completely! I always really dislike the overly literal translations that many fan translators come out with, mainly because of how awkward the dialouge comes off in those kinds of translations. So I'm glad you guys aren't going the same route. So, do you guys also plan to imitate the really verbose style of the Shadow Dragon translation? I really liked that writing style and the way the dialouge was written.

Err I'm sorry to say I don't work for the translation staff. That was simply my opinion on what they should do.

[FionordeQuester]

Oh. Whoops.

[Crimson Red]

@SpyKitty I can see what you mean, it's actually somewhat a visual pun how "Shadow" slowly goes into the dark until you see the word "Shadow"'s shadow :P but I'll tell Zak so if he wants to fix it I'll take out 20 minutes to re-insert it now that I know how to do it, it's a piece of cake

[VincentASM]

I hate to bring up the Claine vs Kleine argument again, after it finally seemed to have died down, but there are just a few points that I'd like to clarify.

I thought the romaji was KurainE, not just Kurain?

Yes, that's true. Although historically that just means the English name should end with an E as well, eg. Clarine, Igrene. AFAIK, the only time it makes a difference pronounciation-wise is with Yune, since FE10 has voice acted segments.

I don't. Both suffice. Your argument for why one should be the other, doesn't. Just like with the example above, it doesn't matter at what scale you're trying to justify your changes or for what reasons--it doesn't change that you're trying to override the game-script--that you're ignoring objectivity completely--to sate your subjective appreciation. Really, FE6's Klein absolutely nothing to do with FE3 DS. As such, it shouldn't be part of the argument whatsoever. It's irrelevant.

Celice, I honestly think you're really missing the point on a lot of areas. I don't even know where to begin replying, but I'll pick this quote since it was one of your last meaningful ones.

Look, we're not overriding any script here. Claine is just a valid a translation as Kleine. Also, nowhere in the game, beside in the internal code (which ATM should be used as a reference only) is her name spelled out Kleine, so both names are on equal footing without considering external factors.

Additionally, none of us know what English name IS intended for its characters. Since NOA/NOE were official localisers, they probably had a good idea, since they could contact IS for advice. Still, that didn't stop fans berating them for changing names like Larchel to L'Arachel despite them receiving IS's blessings.

Also, FE6 Klein's existance is not irrelevant. Otherwise NOA/NOE wouldn't have names like Arran in FE11 (conflict with FE10's Aran) or the Ettard in FE10 (conflict with... itself). Preventing confusion with past characters and items is a relevant concern, at least to us and evidently other fans. Otherwise we wouldn't have people commenting about confusing Malicia with FE9's Marcia.

Finally, we call ourselves a translation team, but in reality we're a localisation team. There is no objectivity in localising, especially between two languages that don't share a common root. If you want objectivity, the best thing would probably be to consult a babelfish translation.

Edited August 6, 2011 by VincentASM

[Momo]

In what ways was Shadow Dragon's translation any different from the other games? I didn't notice dialogue being any more unique.

[FionordeQuester]

Compare the script of the fan translation of Fire Emblem 1 on the SNES to the official translation of Shadow Dragon, and you'll see the difference. As I said, many of the characters (mainly the nobles and royals) are much more verbose in their speech, and other characters have pronounced accents in how they talk. There's even bits of added humor, like Julius telling his crush all about how "you gotta zap me out of here now, cuz we needed to be out like yesterday! Now tick tock, move that frock!" or something along those lines. Some lines of dialouge were even rewritten slightly, such as Mathias's warning to Lena about what kind of man to stay away from...

Super Nintendo Translation: Remember Lena, whatever you do, don't fall in love with a thief.

Shadow Dragon Translation: Remember Lena, be careful who you fall in love with. There are plenty of thieves who would steal a woman's heart.

It's better written in general than the SNES translation because of things like that, or at least, I think so. Too bad the localization team didn't get a more complex story to work those writing skills on.

Edited August 6, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[Momo]

You're really comparing a fan translation to an official one? No offense to the guys here, but I think that should be expected.

[FionordeQuester]

What do you mean? My question from the very beginning was "what approach are you going to take"? I prefer the approach the Shadow Dragon localizers took, so I was wondering if these translators would take that same approach.

[VincentASM]

The comparison is slightly unfair, but I think FionordeQuester makes a good point. The Shadow Dragon script is better than the fan translation's for all those reasons.

It's also probably better adapted than every other FE's script (this could be a slight exaggeration), but the reason nobody notices is because FE1 had a pretty bare bones script to begin with, so the end result is still fairly average.

EDIT

What do you mean? My question from the very beginning was "what approach are you going to take"? I prefer the approach the Shadow Dragon localizers took, so I was wondering if these translators would take that same approach.

I can't answer this question because I'm not committed on editing the script, but if it means anything, I did try to vary the Prologue I script a bit (but bear in mind, I was working under a tight schedule). Snow, the translator, even mentioned it's quite different from the original.

I'm also hoping Arch will follow suit. I know he can write good text, from looking at his hacks.

Edited August 6, 2011 by VincentASM

[shadowofchaos]

It's better written in general than the SNES translation because of things like that, or at least, I think so. Too bad the localization team didn't get a more complex story to work those writing skills on.

You're really comparing a fan translation to an official one? No offense to the guys here, but I think that should be expected.

^That

Translation is an art. There are many different ways to translate and express the same thing for sentences... at least most of the time. There's many different approaches to it... The SNES team probably went for the direct approach... while the official localization was... going more for the "meaningful" approach.

[FionordeQuester]

I can't answer this question because I'm not committed on editing the script, but if it means anything, I did try to vary the Prologue I script a bit (but bear in mind, I was working under a tight schedule). Snow, the translator, even mentioned it's quite different from the original. I'm also hoping Arch will follow suit. I know he can write good text, from looking at his hacks.

I see. By the way, I'd like to make something clear here. I never tried to imply that the fan translation was a bad one. It just happens to be worse than the Shadow Dragon script. It's like comparing "Ben 10" to "Avatar: The Last Airbender". The former is obviously not as good as the latter, but does that make it a bad show? No, just, not as good, and the makers of Avatar probably had a lot of advantages that the Ben 10 guys didn't.

EDIT: Wait, hold on, trying to work up a better comparison here. I was going to compare "Teen Titans" to "Avatar: The Last Airbender" but...Teen Titans actually ended up being pretty awesome despite it's obvious budget limitations.

EDIT 2: Ah wait, here we go, it'd be like comparing City of Heroes/Villains to World of Warcraft. The former isn't bad on it's own, but it's obvious that WoW ends up having the better everything due to being made by Blizzard, known as the makers of the greatest MMORPG's ever (from what I've heard), have a more established backstory for the story of their game, and has much more money to spend on game rebalancing and everything like that.

Edited August 6, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[General Banzai]

FESD's translation is amazing. That's the kind of thing you guys should strive to emulate... easily the best writing in the American FE series.

[Momo]

What do you mean? My question from the very beginning was "what approach are you going to take"? I prefer the approach the Shadow Dragon localizers took, so I was wondering if these translators would take that same approach.

Well my confusion is mostly "What approach did they Shadow Dragon"? The dialogue was exactly the same as every other FE, except less of it because it was a game originally from 1990.

[FionordeQuester]

Saloma, if you're asking me what approach the localizers took, they made a mostly faithful translation but took some slight liberties with the script. Nothing major that I know of, such as the Black Knight saying that he let Ike win in the English version rather than the incredibly corny explanation he gave in the Japanese version of his spirit being seperated from his body...somehow, but they made the way the characters expressed themselves different from the Japanese script, making the royals and nobles more eloquent in their speech and giving accents to the commoners and thugs and all that.

I was wondering whether the guys translating this game would take that approach, or translate the script 100% literally.

[Momo]

But... that's FE10, not Shadow Dragon. I haven't played that one, so I can't really judge that. I'm mostly confused as to what FE11 had that makes people think "Wow, this is a great localization".

[grandjackal]

But... that's FE10, not Shadow Dragon. I haven't played that one, so I can't really judge that. I'm mostly confused as to what FE11 had that makes people think "Wow, this is a great localization".

It took bland NES era writing and made it look really really really really really really really really pretty. The localizaton basically made a rather bland and basic plot look well presented.

[FionordeQuester]

But... that's FE10, not Shadow Dragon. I haven't played that one, so I can't really judge that. I'm mostly confused as to what FE11 had that makes people think "Wow, this is a great localization".

I wasn't talking about FE10, I mentioned it in my previous post to contrast the liberties taken with that script with the liberties taken in the FE11 (FE11 has no major liberties taken in it's script, while FE10 does). And yes, Grandkitty's answer is basically what makes Shadow Dragon so good...

Enemy Soldier:

King Jiol, they're 'ere! The League is outside the Bastion!

Jiol:

League? How dare you call them that! I see naught but a prince of ghosts and his pack of rebels.

Enemy Soldier:

B-beggin' your pardon, sire, but everybody calls 'em the League now. Altea and Aurelis and Akaneia...The League of A's, you might say!

Jiol:

Shut up, you idiot! Hmmm...So the princeling has returned. And he leads all the might of Akaneia, with the Fire Emblem in hand...Did you send to Doluna for reinforcements like I asked?

Enemy Soldier:

Of course, sire. Medon's pegasus knights are on their way.

Jiol:

Pegasus knights?! How am I supposed to stop the Lea- those REBELS with a handful of...of winged ponies! Send another messenger! Tell them we need Camus's Sable Order, or...or Michalis's Dragoons!

Blast...I deserve the same protection as the rest of the Empire! Betraying Altean was Gharnef's idea! Let...let him fight the brat! Don't just stand there, DO something! I don't want to die!

Edited August 7, 2011 by FionordeQuester

[Jave]

By the way, how are you guys going to translate the script? The entire main script first, then all the base/bond convos? Or every chapter (main script, base/support convos) in order?

[Celice]

But... that's FE10, not Shadow Dragon. I haven't played that one, so I can't really judge that. I'm mostly confused as to what FE11 had that makes people think "Wow, this is a great localization".

They did what Square-Enix did with the DS versions of Dragon Quests--gave various people certain accents and manners of speech. Essentially, they tried to give more persona to the dialog (sometimes breaking the original character or adding new dimensions where none were there before).

Things like,

'Come here, we need to patch you up.'

become

'You, that's 'orrible! We need to get that 'o mended quicker than'a spaniel!'

They took the script and attempted to prettify and substantiate it where it felt a little empty, and to color it with personality. What this led some players to see is text which felt pretty airy, but wasn't really anything more than air--since the original text is still pretty bland and empty to begin with.