Carnival Phantasm Mafia

[Bluedoom]

Doc protection is a non-killing action. That's why Manix said he'd idle if I ever used my mass lightningrod, so he wouldn't get me killed by blocking the doctor.

I see. Now I understand.

[Bluedoom]

One, I'm claiming full SG. No limitations. And no secondary role either. Still think I could be scum!SG?

Two, see minimafia again: Rapier successfully blocked a kill as town!RB. I will admit, it doesn't happen often, but it can.

Then post you role pm. You haven't bothered to do that. Only reason I can think of is you're hiding something, very simple.

Except what you've been aruging is this exactly the most pro-town thing in the world this game, worse than usual. That's why.

Well I can't prove my innocence, so whatever. People just want me lynched because I didn't want to be lynched D1- yeah, that's the main motive for it.

@italics: sure, I can accept that, but right now, I'm fairly confident that you won't flip town. And besides, if you do flip town, I shouldn't be the next to die, because I'll probably be kept alive to frame me for the deaths of townies. Hence, me alive => more chance to actually be useful.

@bold: glad we agree on something. You think I'm town, so this'll go well when you flip, no matter what.

Why did you even reply to this? I'm not going to tell you how bad this works for you.

Except SG is more likely to screw over town early on, and even later on, if the mafia manage to convince me to protect their killer, than I'm soooooooooo usefful. SG isn't really that great of a role for town, imo. I'm willing to take the shot because I feel that town probably has better roles that should remain in secret, and that I shouldn't mistakenly screw up.

Fine, take a crack at it. I'm pretty sure the results will be bad.

[Elieson]

If we had a vig, I'd rather have him/her save his shot for scum that isn't already gonna be lynched out.

And, what Haze said.

[Grace]

Dear Manix, you are Rider

You are the Heroic Spirit Medusa, summoned in the Rider Class.

You possess Cybele, the Mystic Eyes of Petrification, held back by your Breaker Gorgon. This Noble Phantasm ranks as Jewel under the Noble Colours classification, and is more than capable of severely weakening, if not completely incapacitating even powerful opponents. During the night, you may reply "Night X - Use Cybele to protect <USER>". You will pursue USER throughout the night, using Cybele to force anyone attempting to target them into retreating. Killers however, will not be deterred.

You are allied with the Town. You win if all threats to the Town are eliminated.

present, since I may as well (thanks for reminding me I can do this)

[Elieson]

wow, that's descriptive

I'd like to see him out his target, if others think it's a good idea. I'm not sure if outing a potential RB is a smart idea, Because I've already gone and claimed, and I don't think we need another. Although, should Marth flip scum, he might be outing one of his scumbuddies if he's fakeclaiming. hmmmmmmmm

I know :/

But yes, I think he needs to out his target (as I said earlier). Because here are the possibilities.

1.) Marth outs a non-RB target: We learn nothing, except Marth's target. And we should hear from Marth's target as to if (s)he was indeed roleblocked, assuming active role.

2.) Marth outs a RB target: We learn that there is a [likely] a RB (though we don't learn alignment)

3.) Marth decides to say he didn't target anyone: He is caught in a lie.

In the second case, we learn that at least if there is a roleblocker, then at least we can operate with anticipation that Manix will be blocked (or maybe with an outed RB, then Manix won't be targetted because obvious target is obvious).

[Elieson]

Or Option 4: He outs no one, but doesn't deny having targetted someone. That's awfully suspicious in itself too, and not making him look any more clear.

[Subieko]

Dang, Scorri's role was really strong...one of her powers--number three--says it redirects any actions on her target to herself...is it possible that that works on kills? If it did, it could be that Scorri wasn't the NK target but actually protected them. I guess that's baseless speculation, though...also I need to go back and reread D1 now that we have a flip.

town!SG is almost useless early, but better late.

Manix, this is exactly why I wish you hadn't claimed, or breadcrumbed for that matter. Plus, wouldn't safeguard protect against roleblocking and silencing and stuff? That seems pretty powerful to me.

People just want me lynched because I didn't want to be lynched D1- yeah, that's the main motive for it.

Actually, I was suspicious of you because your reactions seemed so...panicked and flaily. Your current posts are looking more calm and rational to me, so I have actually become a bit less suspicious of you. I still want to keep my eye on you and watch your behavior during the rest of D2, but I don't feel a need to vote for you at the moment.

If you want to know why I didn't ask for a vig shot on you, it's because that seemed too hasty to me. You looked quite scummy to me from your first defense posts, but I wanted to see more and then if you were still really scummy on D2 we could lynch you. Maybe I don't know how vig is meant to be used and I'm totally off base here, but you DID end up looking less scummy to me, so I'm happy vig didn't shoot.

Also, to answer your question (about why I stopped questioning you after one post): I read your reply, started writing a reply to that...and then I realized I was basically just repeated stuff I had already said, which would probably lead to you repeating what you'd already said. Combined with the fact that the discussion had kind of moved on by the time I checked the thread again, I felt like it wouldn't be productive. If I had spotted something new to question you about, I would've.

@Elieson: I'm confused by your reasoning about Marth outing his target. If he targeted someone who got targeted with a roleblock, then Marth's target wouldn't have been roleblocked, right? And if Marth himself was the target of the roleblock, then his target STILL wouldn't have been roleblocked (unless there are two roleblockers who managed to target Marth AND Marth's target, but that seems kind of unlikely). So...what exactly would knowing Marth's target tell us? Except possibly outing who has an active role, which I don't think is good.

Also, why did you ask Eclipse to claim and post her role PM? It's bad enough Manix claimed out of nowhere. Asking for someone to claim for basically no reason is not a good thing.

##Vote: Elieson please explain why the heck you did that

Last thought: Haze, you keep popping in to post clarifications about how your role works and other small things, but what are your actual thoughts? I can't get a read on you at all.

[Elieson]

@Elieson: I'm confused by your reasoning about Marth outing his target. If he targeted someone who got targeted with a roleblock, then Marth's target wouldn't have been roleblocked, right? And if Marth himself was the target of the roleblock, then his target STILL wouldn't have been roleblocked (unless there are two roleblockers who managed to target Marth AND Marth's target, but that seems kind of unlikely). So...what exactly would knowing Marth's target tell us? Except possibly outing who has an active role, which I don't think is good.

Also, why did you ask Eclipse to claim and post her role PM? It's bad enough Manix claimed out of nowhere. Asking for someone to claim for basically no reason is not a good thing.

##Vote: Elieson please explain why the heck you did that

Ok, let me try to explain this better.

First, on Marth RB thing. I would like to know if there is a roleblocker out there because for one, (s)he is a potential threat to everyone at this point in the game, what with not much in the way of confirmed town. Furthermore, Marth outing a target tells us since information, which we have little of right now. If he claims to have targetted someone and it worked, then we learn about roles, which at least gives us something to go on. Also, Eclipse was redirected. Marth's role is to redirect, but he said he did not target her. Therefore, we can assume a 4th redirecting role if Marth is telling the truth.

If he outs having absorbed someones role, and has been say, investigated by a cop, we then have a cop who can provide us info. If he forced a redirect on himself of someone's passive role, nothing would happen.

Subeiko, wouldn't you agree that knowing what's out there helps our chances of finding scum? We know Manix is a SG (well, he claimed), and BBM is a sort of Bomb, and Haze is PGO. Those are three roles that can help us, and three roles that we know of. Hell, every single other person could be a LR; that would be annoying. I'd like to rid my mind of that possibility.

And, of who has an active role? What if Marth really is town, and he targetted someone, which got him roleblocked? Then hell, we could possibly learn of the existance of a (possible scum) Roleblocker in the first place, which allows us to at least have somewhere else to look.

---

I don't want eclipse's role pm. I want the flavor from Ether/Bal/Whoever sent then out that told Eclipse "X happened". I don't really care to pry at her role is right now because I just want to understand what occurred, In hopes to learn more about more town threats.

Hell, they killed Scoori and locked up Paper. Obviously, they can do it again, and by learning nothing, we can't logically move forward

[Helios]

Reread through the thread a bit to get a better opinion on Haze. Honestly if it wasn't for his somewhat shady role, he'd be pretty forgettable. His role doesn't scream Mafia to me, but I'm wondering if he's either town or third party (is it possible for a thirdparty PGO?). If he's telling the truth, I'm pretty sure it's standard play to let the town know your a PGO so they don't kill themselves walking on your lawn, and you'd do the same if you were a miller or something. What I don't get is that when he ousted his rolePM for the world to see, he held back his one time mass lightning rod effect. Then he talked about how he could prove his role and he'd gladly do so, but it looks like he didn't obviously since there didn't seem to be a mass lightning rod last night. The only way we can really tell whether or not he's telling the truth is if someone targets him, but I doubt anyone would want to actually go and take that risk. I suppose we'll have to take him at his word for now, but all I know is a scum!PGO would be OP as hell.

I guess another possibility is that he's taking a huuuuuge gamble, and is either scum or a third party, and for the sake of his survival he's claiming town!PGO. If everyone believes he is that role, there would be no reason to lynch or target him, and he'd ensure survival until endgame. Just a possibility and I'm not sure it's all that likely.

Also yeah I got martyr and LR mixed up last night. Silly me. Disregard my thoughts regarding that. Very well Bluedoom, tell us who you targeted last night because maybe that might help. I actually think it might be a possibility that you targeted a RB last night.

Manix why the hell did you out your role with no pressure on you? Too soon man, too soon. Otherwise you're doing alright, but I hope you realize if Marth flips town your gonna be a big lynch target D3 for pushing his lynch so hard.

Elie don't rolefish, you're not Blitz lol. I still don't know why you're not as paranoid as you normally are making it not as funny to observe you. Regardless you're playing all right and are at least trying to move discussion along. So for now vote comes off you.

##Unvote

##Vote Haze

All you've done so far is talk about your role and occasionally pop in (usually to bash Marth and push the hypothetical vig to shoot him). How about you start contributing to the discussion with other things, like other opinions on the game and all that cute stuff?

[eclipse]

Eclipse hasn't outed her original or redirected target though, and that makes me wonder, since Paper was obviously targetted, and she is one of the few people here known to have an active role.

This is fishy. Here's why.

1. My target is none of your business.

2. How would you know if roles that targeted Paper were redirected, unless you knew the role that was responsible for this?

I have no objections to seeing Marth lynched today, and I have no objections to this, either.

##Vote: Elieson

[Haze]

Oh you mean like how I've already stated my reasoning for wanting Marth dead, and have thus voted for him?

I have zero reason to out suspicions on other people at this point, try harder.

[Haze]

You know what, fuck it, full response to Helios because his logic terribad:

Reread through the thread a bit to get a better opinion on Haze. Honestly if it wasn't for his somewhat shady role, he'd be pretty forgettable. His role doesn't scream Mafia to me, but I'm wondering if he's either town or third party (is it possible for a thirdparty PGO?). If he's telling the truth, I'm pretty sure it's standard play to let the town know your a PGO so they don't kill themselves walking on your lawn, and you'd do the same if you were a miller or something. What I don't get is that when he ousted his rolePM for the world to see, he held back his one time mass lightning rod effect. Then he talked about how he could prove his role and he'd gladly do so, but it looks like he didn't obviously since there didn't seem to be a mass lightning rod last night. The only way we can really tell whether or not he's telling the truth is if someone targets him, but I doubt anyone would want to actually go and take that risk. I suppose we'll have to take him at his word for now, but all I know is a scum!PGO would be OP as hell.

Yes, third party PGO is possible, but if I were a third party PGO, I'd have claimed to be so.

I held back the lightning rod ability because I had no reason to announce it, the only part of my role pm that everyone needed to know was the PGO. It also pays not to give the mafia more information than they need. Forewarning them about the mass lightning rod is forearming them to prepare a counter.

I didn't use my mass lightning rod because, as I plainly stated in the thread, I'd leave it up to everyone else to decide if I should use it, and the consensus was not to. Nice job on that reread if you couldn't even see that.

I guess another possibility is that he's taking a huuuuuge gamble, and is either scum or a third party, and for the sake of his survival he's claiming town!PGO. If everyone believes he is that role, there would be no reason to lynch or target him, and he'd ensure survival until endgame. Just a possibility and I'm not sure it's all that likely.

Too big a gamble, even for me.

Manix why the hell did you out your role with no pressure on you? Too soon man, too soon. Otherwise you're doing alright, but I hope you realize if Marth flips town your gonna be a big lynch target D3 for pushing his lynch so hard.

It was obvious that he was a safeguard the second he said he would idle after I volunteered to mass lightning rod.

All you've done so far is talk about your role and occasionally pop in (usually to bash Marth and push the hypothetical vig to shoot him). How about you start contributing to the discussion with other things, like other opinions on the game and all that cute stuff?

False. I attacked BBM during day 1, wanting to see his alignment in order to get a better read on a few other players, which then snowballed into the first serious wagon and debate of the day.

And what exactly do you want me to do exactly? Make cutesy list shit about every single player? No.

Once I have a target, I'm going to push for their lynch, if I feel I need to reply to something else, I will do so. I absolutely refuse to post stupid fluff-filled lists or recaps for no reason other than to either A. Make myself look better, or B. Coddle people who can't keep their own notes/don't want to reread.

[Elieson]

This is fishy. Here's why.

1. My target is none of your business.

2. How would you know if roles that targeted Paper were redirected, unless you knew the role that was responsible for this?

I have no objections to seeing Marth lynched today, and I have no objections to this, either.

##Vote: Elieson

Fine, give out the flavor, and redact the targets, if you are that cautious about it.

Or don't.

I don't know if roles were redirected to target Paper or targetted him specifically. I know there are at least 4 role redirectors in this game (well, one of those is dead), and I'm not one of them. I'm trying to figure out what happened last night, and it's hard to do if no one shares anything.

[Haze]

Oh and to add on to my claim, think about the logistics of this for a moment, and why me being scum is so stupidly improbable right now:

Putting aside my PGO, I have claimed to have a mass lightning rod, and am willing to use it to be scanned to clear myself.

If I were scum, this would require a scum tailor to cover for me, or for me to be a godfather, which would be redundant with my PGO protection.

Finally... A SCUM MASS LIGHTNING ROD?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

"Oh I know, let's give the mafia an ability to pull all actions to themselves, including their own kill, GENIUS!"

[eclipse]

You don't need my target OR the flavor to see if I was redirected, because that's none of your business. Furthermore, here's a reminder of what you said earlier:

Eclipse hasn't outed her original or redirected target though, and that makes me wonder, since Paper was obviously targetted, and she is one of the few people here known to have an active role.

I don't know if roles were redirected to target Paper or targetted him specifically. I know there are at least 4 role redirectors in this game (well, one of those is dead), and I'm not one of them. I'm trying to figure out what happened last night, and it's hard to do if no one shares anything.

1. Paper was obviously targeted? That doesn't sound like speculation to me.

2. Please point to the specific post before D2 where I claimed an active role.

3. The only certainties are your own role PM, info concerning your role PM, dead people PMs, the rules, and other host information. Everything else is uncertain.

I've got a vote on you already, and I'd vote you again if I could.

[Elieson]

1. In that post, I admit that my word choice was wrong. I should have said "affected" or "hit" instead of "targettedl. My bad. I'll eat that.

2.

That's not how Marth's role works. ;/

The only redirection claims I've seen are Haze's one-time lightning rod, scorri's jack of all trades and then some, and Marth's reverse martyr. I'm not too happy with the safeguard claim; it didn't seem like a good time to say anything about it, as Manix wasn't one of the three in danger of being lynched. All I know is that I got a result on someone that I didn't intend on targeting.

Bolded, for your convenience. I put 2 and 2 together, just so you know.

3. Agreed, but we need something to move this forward, don't we? So vote for me, I don't care. I'm still gonna try to go fishing for scum.

[Elieson]

And I realize that the quote is in D2. That's why I am saying you have an active role. What it is, I have no clue.

[eclipse]

Did you miss "before D2". Look at what I quoted.

[BBM]

Even if she has an active role, why do we need to know it? Scum gets helped out by knowing what role Eclipse has much more than we do. I can't remember who said it (might have been Eclipse), but claim only to ensure the lynch of a mafia, to prevent yourself from getting lynched, or if your role is dangerous to the town.

[Subieko]

I don't want eclipse's role pm. I want the flavor from Ether/Bal/Whoever sent then out that told Eclipse "X happened".

Eclipse, post your rolePM from Ether.

When I see Eclipse and this RB claim out, then I'll place my vote back out on (s)he who deserves it.

The second line is what I was originally responding to--asking for Eclipse's rolePM sounds very different than asking for her night flavor. The third one I noticed now on quick reread of your posts. You asked Eclipse and the roleblocker to 'claim out'. That really, really doesn't sound like you're asking for night flavor, that sounds like you want role claims. And you also say you won't vote until you get them.

, we could possibly learn of the existance of a (possible scum) Roleblocker in the first place

But...Marth already said he was roleblocked. If you think he's telling the truth, then you already know there's a roleblocker. If you think he's lying, then why would he tell the truth about his target either?

If he claims to have targeted someone and it worked

This would mean that either Marth targeted the roleblocker or he is lying. If he targeted the roleblocker then yeah, this could be helpful, but how could we tell that that's what happened? If the roleblocker is scum, they'd lie. if the roleblocker is Town, we've just outed our roleblocker and made them a target. Your logic doesn't really make sense to me and I'm concerned about how much info you're fishing for.

I'm not against getting more info, but asking for unnecessary claims is not good, and your logic about outing targets doesn't make sense to me.

I'm keeping my vote on you for now.

[Elieson]

Ffs, I just wanted to see Ether's reply, sans usernames, to Eclipse's role.

Forget it. Marth is the only one who will show his Ether-reply. I don't give a fuck about anyone else's anymore. Why would I at this point? I'll just stick out a vote to the next person I see fishing for information.

Eclipse, what did you want me to post your nonexisting preD2 claim of an active role for btw? I didn't really refer to you until D2, only because of your post that I quoted. What are you getting at? And I did see your D2 in that post. I acknowledged it too.

Nvm, fuckit.

And Haze, didn't you recently host a game with a mass RB (that scum were immune to)? Why couldn't your mass LR (if scum) share the same quality? Just curious is all.

[Haze]

Because it would still be incredibly dumb to pull all town actions to a scum player.

[BBM]

For one thing, the mass LR is almost certainly getting lynched next day. People would realize that they all got redirected to the same guy next day, and lynch him for surviving the night, because a town mass LR would die with a Safeguard on him. And if the Safeguard didn't get pulled onto him (either because of idling or not existing), the info roles would nail him.

[Helios]

##Unvote

Elicited a response out of Haze which was all I had intended to do. For the record, I never once thought you were scum Haze, just maybe third party. Also I think the reason why I forgot why you didn't use your mass LR is because I believe only one person (eclipse) said don't do it, which I guess is a consensus. That's really easy to overlook, but I overlooked it regardless so that's my bad.

Anyway when I return I'll take a look at things better and see what's up.

[Elieson]

By "sent elsewhere", I meant "I said person A in my role PM and instead the hosts tell me someone that isn't person A in my role PM".

Ok Eclipse. Here.

Can you just clarify this statement? I don't quite get it. It's this statement right here that threw me on this tangent.

I don't want names or other specifics. Just a "layman"s terms" explaination.